Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - YAk-50 structural issues (Richard Goode)
2. 08:13 AM - Re: Yak-50 for sale (Barry Hancock)
3. 08:22 AM - Re: Central RPA Fly-In (Forrest Johnson)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: Central RPA Fly-In (David McGirt)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (flir47)
6. 12:48 PM - Log book translation (Doug Sapp)
7. 01:18 PM - Re: YAk-50 structural issues (netmaster15@juno.com)
8. 01:58 PM - Re: Re: Yak-50 for sale (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 04:31 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Roger Kemp)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: YAk-50 structural issues (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 04:39 PM - Radial / utube (Doug Sapp)
14. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Forrest Johnson)
15. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 04:49 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 05:03 PM - Oil temp (was: YAk-50 structural issues) (Brian Lloyd)
18. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Brian Lloyd)
19. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (viperdoc)
20. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (viperdoc)
21. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (viperdoc)
22. 05:39 PM - Re: Radial / utube (viperdoc)
23. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Brian Lloyd)
24. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
25. 05:57 PM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (flir47)
26. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
27. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Brian Lloyd)
28. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
29. 07:40 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
30. 08:04 PM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (flir47)
31. 08:59 PM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Tim Gagnon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | YAk-50 structural issues |
Yak-50 structural issues
I am concerned that people refer to "the spar mod." There are actually
six Service Bulletins relating to the center section and the wings -
SB's number 16; 37; 43; 53; 61 (actually further strengthening version
of 37); 79.
UNLESS you really know what you are looking for, it is very difficult to
confirm the presence of these SB's. Having said that, it is unlikely
(but in Russian nothing is impossible) that an aircraft would embody
Bulletin 79 without the others.
B79 is relatively easy to confirm in so far as it is a 4.5 mm plate on
both top and bottom surfaces of the center section. However, you need
to make sure that it is 4.5 mm - B16 is the 3.5 mm plate on the top
surface, and I have also seen 3 mm; 4 mm!
For a detailed explanation of the Service Bulletins - and indeed the
failures that led to them - please contact us for a document we have
prepared and which we will e-mail to anyone interested.
The Yak-50 is actually an extremely strong aircraft, and if flown at +6,
-4G will last for ever.
Unfortunately its introduction coincided with aerobatics changing from
large graceful manoeuvres to sharp corners, and Russian Team members, in
their competitive zeal, regularly exceeded +9 -7G.
In my personal view 50s should not be flown at more than +6 -4 and
indeed I can see no reason why anyone would want to fly at higher
levels. If you need to do so, then get a 55 or a Sukhoi!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-50 for sale |
> mil>
>
>
> Who's "we" ?? What's the history on the aircraft? How many
> hours? Do
> you have the Russian logbooks? How many rebuilds on the engine? Is
> the
> engine a first or second generation M-14P ?? Assume the spar mod has
> been done? What kind of covering is on the control surfaces and when
> was it done? When was it last airworthy? Has it got any kind of
> registration yet?
>
> Mark Bitterlich
Mark, good questions. I am also selling a Yak-50, maybe two.
Serial #001 on the market. This plane is one of the finest examples
out there with less than 200TTAF & Engine, and a complete airframe
rebuild in 2002 in which all AD's and SB's were complied with.
Original log books and picture log of rebuild. MTV-9-250, Becker
radios G-196 GPS, baggage compartment, smoke, long range fuel,
diamond stitch interior padding, and more. Asking $85,000 for this
historically significant aircraft.
We have 3 flying CJ's for sale, all very low time. Two more
overhauled CJ airframes are also ready for rebuild. And if you want
to burn kerosene, we now have 9 L-39's in inventory...
Happy flying,
Barry
PS Our new web sites will go live within a week. Lots of CJ goodies
we've developed will be available soon.
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (714) 730-3958
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
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hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, forwarding or
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Central RPA Fly-In |
I doubt there will be many from the central and SC going to the West. The
big thing to think think about is the weather. Sun-Fun is in April. Early
to mid June would not be bad.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jonboede@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Central RPA Fly-In
>
> Barry pointed out that our Central RPA Fly-In date, currently scheduled
> for May, conflicts with the Fly-In on the west coast.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions... it will be near Dallas, so the temps will
> be reasonable starting in March, but I'm not sure if people would rather
> see it earlier in April or later in June, or if y'all think that because
> of the distance it doesn't really conflict with the west coast event.
>
> jon
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Central RPA Fly-In |
Sun-n-Fun is in April, you might not want to get too close to that one, or
you will lose most of the east coast
On 10/25/07 11:28 PM, "Jon Boede" <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Barry pointed out that our Central RPA Fly-In date, currently scheduled for
> May, conflicts with the Fly-In on the west coast.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions... it will be near Dallas, so the temps will be
> reasonable starting in March, but I'm not sure if people would rather see it
> earlier in April or later in June, or if y'all think that because of the
> distance it doesn't really conflict with the west coast event.
>
> jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
>
> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed of
> a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots. Mine
> won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the fuel
> burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots with a
> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning rather
> more than 12 GPH.
>
> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at 156
> knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>
> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>
>
>
> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best looking
> YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the "Spar Mod" has
> not been done, that beauty just went down about $20 GRAND or more in
> value.
>
> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have
some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions.
>
> A man without data just has another opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
Message 6
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| Subject: | Log book translation |
Guys,
If your like me your just guessing as to what your Russian engine log
books actually say. Yes I know the pages to check to see the total time
and the page which has the overhaul cert glued to it. But I wanted to
know what all the writing was about. Why was it overhauled before the
normal 500 hours? What did the logs say about it's oil consumption?
Has it had a prop strike? was it making metal? Was the overhaul a split
case overhaul? Are the stamps correct (was the overhaul done in a
garage maybe)? Basically what in the hell does all this gibberish (to
me) say? I had a ton of questions.
The wife of a very good friend is a Russian, besides being very nice
folks they both are very experienced in Russian aviation. She knows the
Russian regs., she understands the whys and the wherefores of Russian
engine logs. She is doing my logs for me. I commented to her that she
might start a service to translate Russian logs for US owners and she
agreed to have a go at it. For $50.00 your can get the basic info, for
$100.00 you can get every page translated with side notes as to the
reason this or that was done. To take advantage of her service you must
photo copy the complete log, Fed Ex it to her with a return envelope and
your payment. She will translate the logs and return the copied log to
you in your *prepaid* Fed Ex mailer. Her name is Alyona Smit, her email
is ohmartoz@iinet.net.au
If you contact her she will give you her full Fed Ex address. I *would
not* recommend that you send her your original log books, shit happens,
Fed Ex looses stuff, it's simply not worth the chance.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: YAk-50 structural issues |
Dear Richard, PLease e mail me the referenced document pertaining to th
e YAK 50 , the early failures,, and the explanation of the Service Bull
etins applicable thereto. Specifically,SBs 16; 37; 43; 53; 61 and 79.
Thankyou for your generous offer to share this information.
Kindest Personal Regards.
Cliff Umscheid, netmaster15@juno .com
-- "Richard Goode"
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com> wrote:
Yak-50 structural issues
I am concerned that people refer to "the spar mod." There are actually
six Service Bulletins relating to the center section and the wings - SB
's number 16; 37; 43; 53; 61 (actually further strengthening version of
37); 79. UNLESS you really know what you are looking for, it is very d
ifficult to confirm the presence of these SB's. Having said that, it is
unlikely (but in Russian nothing is impossible) that an aircraft would
embody Bulletin 79 without the others. B79 is relatively easy to confi
rm in so far as it is a 4.5 mm plate on both top and bottom surfaces of
the center section. However, you need to make sure that it is 4.5 mm -
B16 is the 3.5 mm plate on the top surface, and I have also seen 3 mm;
4 mm! For a detailed explanation of the Service Bulletins - and indeed
the failures that led to them - please contact us for a document we hav
e prepared and which we will e-mail to anyone interested. The Yak-50 is
actually an extremely strong aircraft, and if flown at +6, -4G will las
t for ever.
Unfortunately its introduction coincided with aerobatics changing from l
arge graceful manoeuvres to sharp corners, and Russian Team members, in
their competitive zeal, regularly exceeded +9 -7G. In my personal view
50s should not be flown at more than +6 -4 and indeed I can see no reas
on why anyone would want to fly at higher levels. If you need to do so
, then get a 55 or a Sukhoi! Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
========================
========================
========================
========================
====
_____________________________________________________________
Click to find great rates on health insurance, save big, shop here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3m3B8IuLiVq5eX5oK4IU4f
i44s7TQaZZWwvUz2LPIuBFw32L/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-50 for sale |
I was not aware that you owned that aircraft Barry. You lucky dog. I
read some history that indicated that the first pre-production YAK-50's
had bubble canopies, non-retractable gear, and a much stronger wing.
Does serial #001 have any of these differences? Do you see any kind of
changes that were made from 001 to other aircraft down the road? Just
curious really. Long range fuel: Are you speaking about the aerobatic
tank still being in there with the AUX tank added for around 28-31 or so
usable gallons, or something else?
For what you are offering, that price is sure tempting.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:11
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-50 for sale
mil <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >
Who's "we" ?? What's the history on the aircraft? How many
hours? Do
you have the Russian logbooks? How many rebuilds on the engine?
Is the
engine a first or second generation M-14P ?? Assume the spar
mod has
been done? What kind of covering is on the control surfaces and
when
was it done? When was it last airworthy? Has it got any kind
of
registration yet?
Mark Bitterlich
Mark, good questions. I am also selling a Yak-50, maybe two. Serial
#001 on the market. This plane is one of the finest examples out there
with less than 200TTAF & Engine, and a complete airframe rebuild in 2002
in which all AD's and SB's were complied with. Original log books and
picture log of rebuild. MTV-9-250, Becker radios G-196 GPS, baggage
compartment, smoke, long range fuel, diamond stitch interior padding,
and more. Asking $85,000 for this historically significant aircraft.
We have 3 flying CJ's for sale, all very low time. Two more overhauled
CJ airframes are also ready for rebuild. And if you want to burn
kerosene, we now have 9 L-39's in inventory...
Happy flying,
Barry
PS Our new web sites will go live within a week. Lots of CJ goodies
we've developed will be available soon.
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (714) 730-3958
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients. If the
reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any review, use, dissemination, forwarding or copying of
this message is strictly prohibited. Please notify us immediately by
reply e-mail or telephone, and delete the original message and all
attachments from your system. Thank you
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Good answer.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jetj01@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 23:23
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
We have the original Russian logs books.
The 79 YAK 50 has 220 hours
It is a Russian overhaul
All mods done
Any other questions, 940-613-2797
Jj
________________________________
See what's new
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind
and shows 168 on the GPS!"
Mgb replies:
If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a standard
day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet
or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give to
you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose,
you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to meeting you.
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed
A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some questions regarding how
you draw these conclusions."
Mgb replies:
Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for consultation.
Payment in advance in your case.
Have a nice day,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
>
> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
> with a
> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
> rather more than 12 GPH.
>
> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>
> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>
>
>
> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
> GRAND or more in value.
>
> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have
some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions.
>
> A man without data just has another opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Damged! This is getting vicious! Now ya'll have dun gon 'n gives me an 'cuse to
fly my 50 tomorra! Jus fer grins I'll charg dat video and dat fancy digital camra
fur documentation. I aint drainin them fuel tanks though!
Soz I gotta fly one hour at 65% @ 650 mmHG land and refuel, then fly another hour
at 70% at 700 mmHg land and refuel then do it agin fur the 3rd time! Dis time
at 80% and 800 mmHG. Land agin and refuel!
Hey wait till I tells momma dat Iz gots ta fly 3 hurs tomorra!
Or I could spend part of the morning installing that Shadin fuel flow monitor that
has been sitting on my work bench for the past 7-8 months! Then fly once!
Hell I'll fly 3 times!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind
and shows 168 on the GPS!"
Mgb replies:
If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a standard
day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet
or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give to
you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose,
you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to meeting you.
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed
A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some questions regarding how
you draw these conclusions."
Mgb replies:
Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for consultation.
Payment in advance in your case.
Have a nice day,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
>
> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
> with a
> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
> rather more than 12 GPH.
>
> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>
> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>
>
>
> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
> GRAND or more in value.
>
> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have
some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions.
>
> A man without data just has another opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
Message 12
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| Subject: | YAk-50 structural issues |
Hi Richard. Very kind offer, and thanks for the expert advice as well.
Question: I have the list of these Bulletins hidden away someplace, but
not right at hand. Way back when, the original 50's came with a
thermostat installed in the oil cooler. Later on, they came out with a
SB that removed the thermostat and replaced it with an over-pressure
by-pass valve. In Russian helicopters that use the same M-14P, and the
same oil cooler, retain the thermostat.
As you know from personal experience, warming up the oil on a YAK-50, or
any M-14 engine for that matter, on a cold day requires patience.
On that note, last year I managed to acquire one of the original oil
coolers with the original thermostat installed. Just for the heck of
it, I installed that "as is" into the M-14 installed into my YAK-50.
The "plus side" is that it works perfectly. The oil temp comes up very
rapidly to the middle of the green, and then it very slowly drops down
as the valve opens and then slowly comes back up to the middle of the
green again. I am as pleased as punch in how well it works. An
additional factor is that on long descents, the oil temperature always
stays perfectly centered in the green. So it appears to be a win-win
situation. HOWEVER, I know the Russians pulled that thing out for a
reason, and my guess is because if the oil cooler ever becomes clogged
up, it will simply burst OR if it starts to go bad, you will lose oil
pressure to the engine, and then goodbye engine. So to that end, they
replaced the thermostat with the over-pressure relief valve.
You have been around M-14's quite a bit. What is your reaction to me
leaving that thermostat in there? If you think it to be a stupid idea,
then I want to know it and don't mind being told over the net at all. I
always keep a watchful eye on both pressure and temp. I think I could
quickly see any change in what is considered "normal" in either reading.
My real concern is that something happened to make the Russians pull
this thermostat,,, but then... Why keep it in the helicopters?
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 9:52
Subject: Yak-List: YAk-50 structural issues
Yak-50 structural issues
I am concerned that people refer to "the spar mod." There are actually
six Service Bulletins relating to the center section and the wings -
SB's number 16; 37; 43; 53; 61 (actually further strengthening version
of 37); 79.
UNLESS you really know what you are looking for, it is very difficult to
confirm the presence of these SB's. Having said that, it is unlikely
(but in Russian nothing is impossible) that an aircraft would embody
Bulletin 79 without the others.
B79 is relatively easy to confirm in so far as it is a 4.5 mm plate on
both top and bottom surfaces of the center section. However, you need
to make sure that it is 4.5 mm - B16 is the 3.5 mm plate on the top
surface, and I have also seen 3 mm; 4 mm!
For a detailed explanation of the Service Bulletins - and indeed the
failures that led to them - please contact us for a document we have
prepared and which we will e-mail to anyone interested.
The Yak-50 is actually an extremely strong aircraft, and if flown at +6,
-4G will last for ever.
Unfortunately its introduction coincided with aerobatics changing from
large graceful manoeuvres to sharp corners, and Russian Team members, in
their competitive zeal, regularly exceeded +9 -7G.
In my personal view 50s should not be flown at more than +6 -4 and
indeed I can see no reason why anyone would want to fly at higher
levels. If you need to do so, then get a 55 or a Sukhoi!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 13
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If you really want a good look at a cut away radial in motion check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hWZ40120BQ
Always Yakin,
Doug
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
If yall want to go fast get a CJ6 with M14P. I get 165 KIA ,16 Gph, 70% :
135 KIA 14Gph 50%.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero
> wind and shows 168 on the GPS!"
>
> Mgb replies:
> If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to
> a standard day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at
> 5000 feet or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be
> glad to give to you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?)
> Flir47, you lose, you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to
> meeting you.
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a
> licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some
> questions regarding how you draw these conclusions."
>
> Mgb replies:
> Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for
> consultation. Payment in advance in your case.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
>
>
>
> mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
>> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
>> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
>> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
>> with a
>> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
>> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
>> rather more than 12 GPH.
>>
>> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
>> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>>
>> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>>
>>
>>
>> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
>> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
>> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
>> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
>> GRAND or more in value.
>>
>> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If
>> so I will have some questions regarding how you draw these
>> conclusions.
>>
>> A man without data just has another opinion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Make it easy on yourself. Sell me the Shadin. I will simply not admit how many
times I've put over 25 gallons into my 50.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 19:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Damged! This is getting vicious! Now ya'll have dun gon 'n gives me an 'cuse to
fly my 50 tomorra! Jus fer grins I'll charg dat video and dat fancy digital camra
fur documentation. I aint drainin them fuel tanks though!
Soz I gotta fly one hour at 65% @ 650 mmHG land and refuel, then fly another hour
at 70% at 700 mmHg land and refuel then do it agin fur the 3rd time! Dis time
at 80% and 800 mmHG. Land agin and refuel!
Hey wait till I tells momma dat Iz gots ta fly 3 hurs tomorra!
Or I could spend part of the morning installing that Shadin fuel flow monitor that
has been sitting on my work bench for the past 7-8 months! Then fly once!
Hell I'll fly 3 times!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind
and shows 168 on the GPS!"
Mgb replies:
If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a standard
day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet
or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give to
you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose,
you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to meeting you.
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed
A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some questions regarding how
you draw these conclusions."
Mgb replies:
Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for consultation.
Payment in advance in your case.
Have a nice day,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
>
> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
> with a
> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
> rather more than 12 GPH.
>
> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>
> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>
>
>
> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
> GRAND or more in value.
>
> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have
some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions.
>
> A man without data just has another opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
You're right. No question that with the same engine, a CJ will walk away from
the YAK. Beautiful wing. Beautiful airplane. The downside is that there is
more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6. Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true.
I am very very tight in a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the
canopy on the CJ.
Otherwise, I'd own what you just described! :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 19:40
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
--> <flushjohnson@charter.net>
If yall want to go fast get a CJ6 with M14P. I get 165 KIA ,16 Gph, 70% :
135 KIA 14Gph 50%.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero
> wind and shows 168 on the GPS!"
>
> Mgb replies:
> If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to
> a standard day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at
> 5000 feet or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be
> glad to give to you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?)
> Flir47, you lose, you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to
> meeting you.
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a
> licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some
> questions regarding how you draw these conclusions."
>
> Mgb replies:
> Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for
> consultation. Payment in advance in your case.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
>
>
>
> mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
>> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
>> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
>> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
>> with a
>> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
>> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
>> rather more than 12 GPH.
>>
>> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
>> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>>
>> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>>
>>
>>
>> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
>> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
>> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
>> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
>> GRAND or more in value.
>>
>> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If
>> so I will have some questions regarding how you draw these
>> conclusions.
>>
>> A man without data just has another opinion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Oil temp (was: YAk-50 structural issues) |
On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> As you know from personal experience, warming up the oil on a
> YAK-50, or
> any M-14 engine for that matter, on a cold day requires patience.
Has anyone bothered to determine whether there is any real need to
warm the oil up into the green, especially when using modern oils?
Excessive oil pressure and low flow rates is not an issue with modern
multi-vis oils so I was wondering if the warm-up period is still needed?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> You're right. No question that with the same engine, a CJ will
> walk away from the YAK. Beautiful wing. Beautiful airplane. The
> downside is that there is more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6.
> Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true. I am very very tight in
> a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the canopy on the CJ.
Huh. That means that the Yak-50 cockpit is cavernous. I find the CJ
cockpit plenty roomy. I find the Yak-52 to be a bit of a squeeze for
my 6'2" frame.
And the CJ6A is a nice airframe but the roll rate is just a bit on
the anemic side. Also, it doesn't have inverted fuel and oil by
default. Dunno, does anyone make the perfect airplane?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Okay but can you turn around inside your on asshole?
The 50 can.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Johnson
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
If yall want to go fast get a CJ6 with M14P. I get 165 KIA ,16 Gph, 70% :
135 KIA 14Gph 50%.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero
> wind and shows 168 on the GPS!"
>
> Mgb replies:
> If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to
> a standard day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at
> 5000 feet or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be
> glad to give to you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?)
> Flir47, you lose, you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to
> meeting you.
>
> "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a
> licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some
> questions regarding how you draw these conclusions."
>
> Mgb replies:
> Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for
> consultation. Payment in advance in your case.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
>
>
>
> mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
>> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
>> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
>> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
>> with a
>> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
>> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
>> rather more than 12 GPH.
>>
>> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
>> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>>
>> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>>
>>
>>
>> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
>> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
>> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
>> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
>> GRAND or more in value.
>>
>> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If
>> so I will have some questions regarding how you draw these
>> conclusions.
>>
>> A man without data just has another opinion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Hey, come to think of it... I have not put over 25 gallons in my 50 after one flight
yet either!!!!
NOOOTTTTT! Only when I fly with the 52's and CJ's does that not happen after one
hour.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Make it easy on yourself. Sell me the Shadin. I will simply not admit how many
times I've put over 25 gallons into my 50.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 19:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Damged! This is getting vicious! Now ya'll have dun gon 'n gives me an 'cuse to
fly my 50 tomorra! Jus fer grins I'll charg dat video and dat fancy digital camra
fur documentation. I aint drainin them fuel tanks though!
Soz I gotta fly one hour at 65% @ 650 mmHG land and refuel, then fly another hour
at 70% at 700 mmHg land and refuel then do it agin fur the 3rd time! Dis time
at 80% and 800 mmHG. Land agin and refuel!
Hey wait till I tells momma dat Iz gots ta fly 3 hurs tomorra!
Or I could spend part of the morning installing that Shadin fuel flow monitor that
has been sitting on my work bench for the past 7-8 months! Then fly once!
Hell I'll fly 3 times!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind
and shows 168 on the GPS!"
Mgb replies:
If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a standard
day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet
or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give to
you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose,
you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to meeting you.
"flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net> Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed
A/C structural engineer? If so I will have some questions regarding how
you draw these conclusions."
Mgb replies:
Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for consultation.
Payment in advance in your case.
Have a nice day,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 13:59
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
>
>
> And a final comment: The maximum listed wide open throttle airspeed
> of a YAK-50 is advertised as right at 200 mph or around 174 knots.
> Mine won't go QUITE that fast. Of course, at WFO throttle setting the
> fuel burn is pretty staggering. Your YAK-50 does 180 mph or 156 knots
> with a
> 12 GPH fuel burn? My 50 will fly at 156 knots as well. Power setting
> for this speed is about 80-85% At this power setting I'm burning
> rather more than 12 GPH.
>
> Question: Does ANYONE else on this list who owns a YAK-50 cruise at
> 156 knots with a 12 gallon per hour burn?
>
> Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!
>
>
>
> Without this mod, a 5G limitation is
> mandatory, and even that is stretching it. You can buy the best
> looking YAK-50 on this planet, but if it turns out later that the
> "Spar Mod" has not been done, that beauty just went down about $20
> GRAND or more in value.
>
> I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer? If so I will have
some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions.
>
> A man without data just has another opinion
>
>
>
>
> --
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=141980#141980
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
You are right Brian...nobody makes the perfect airplane! But is sure is fun
as hell trying to find and fly that perfect airframe. I have to say the ol'
F-16 Viper came awful danged close though...well that is until the F-22 came
along that is!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> You're right. No question that with the same engine, a CJ will
> walk away from the YAK. Beautiful wing. Beautiful airplane. The
> downside is that there is more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6.
> Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true. I am very very tight in
> a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the canopy on the CJ.
Huh. That means that the Yak-50 cockpit is cavernous. I find the CJ
cockpit plenty roomy. I find the Yak-52 to be a bit of a squeeze for
my 6'2" frame.
And the CJ6A is a nice airframe but the roll rate is just a bit on
the anemic side. Also, it doesn't have inverted fuel and oil by
default. Dunno, does anyone make the perfect airplane?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 22
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Well dead gummit Doug, I did not need to see that tonight! Reminds me of a
Helicopter! 100 parts all moving at once and trying to kill me!
Seriously, had never given it much thought until I saw that. Kind of
explains why you can have two or three bad cylinders and not even feel it
with the centriple force effect. Can't say that about a flat Lycoming or a
Contenital!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 6:39 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Radial / utube
If you really want a good look at a cut away radial in motion check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hWZ40120BQ
Always Yakin,
Doug
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:18 PM, viperdoc wrote:
>
> Okay but can you turn around inside your on asshole?
> The 50 can.
One thing to consider is that turn radius is purely a function of
pulling G and TAS. Two airplanes pulling the same G at the same TAS
are making the same circle. The only way you can make a Yak-50 out-
turn a CJ6A is to pull more G or fly at at a lower TAS (or both).
That is where you lose a lot of energy too so you can't keep it up.
Something to think about.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ. But I also admit to being just
short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you would call "thin" anymore.
Yes, truly the 50 has more room. You can also modify it so as to move the seat
aft a little bit, which I have done with mine. My torso height is such that
sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all the way down to my shoulder, I can close
the canopy.
I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case. My airplane choices are limited.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 20:05
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
On Oct 26, 2007, at 4:48 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> You're right. No question that with the same engine, a CJ will
> walk away from the YAK. Beautiful wing. Beautiful airplane. The
> downside is that there is more room in a YAK-50 than a CJ-6.
> Amazingly hard to believe, but it is true. I am very very tight in
> a YAK-50, but simply can't even get in and close the canopy on the CJ.
Huh. That means that the Yak-50 cockpit is cavernous. I find the CJ
cockpit plenty roomy. I find the Yak-52 to be a bit of a squeeze for
my 6'2" frame.
And the CJ6A is a nice airframe but the roll rate is just a bit on
the anemic side. Also, it doesn't have inverted fuel and oil by
default. Dunno, does anyone make the perfect airplane?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
> "flir47" Said: "Mine rolls 70% @ 13gph at zero wind and shows 168 on the GPS!"
>
> Mgb replies:
> If your stock YAK-50 can do 168 knots True Air Speed at somewhere close to a
standard day, at 70% power with a 13gph fuel burn straight and level at 5000 feet
or below, I have TEN THOUSANDS DOLLARS IN CASH that I will be glad to give
to you. (What say, .. Hey DOC? Will you officiate please?) Flir47, you lose,
you pay me a DOLLAR. 10,000 to 1 odds. Look forward to meeting you.
>
> "flir47" Also Said: "I was wondering if you are a licensed A/C structural engineer?
If so I will have some questions regarding how you draw these conclusions."
>
> Mgb replies:
> Be glad to answer any and all questions you have. I charge $250/hour for consultation.
Payment in advance in your case.
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
I highly doubt you have 10 grand to bet anyway. Half of the BS you spew here is
accurate. I dont think your parents let you be correct enough when you were a
child.
I like to know where your FEA data is to back up your claim????
Only an imbecile would pay 250 dollars to listen to your "opinion"
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142073#142073
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
You've summed up the 50's strong point. It has a very unusual wing for a purpose
built aerobatic airplane. Asymmetrical and very long. It's low speed performance
is pretty much legend.
Mark B.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 20:53
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:18 PM, viperdoc wrote:
>
> Okay but can you turn around inside your on asshole?
> The 50 can.
One thing to consider is that turn radius is purely a function of pulling G and
TAS. Two airplanes pulling the same G at the same TAS are making the same circle.
The only way you can make a Yak-50 out- turn a CJ6A is to pull more G or
fly at at a lower TAS (or both).
That is where you lose a lot of energy too so you can't keep it up.
Something to think about.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
On Oct 26, 2007, at 5:54 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ. But I also admit to
> being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you
> would call "thin" anymore.
>
> Yes, truly the 50 has more room. You can also modify it so as to
> move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine. My
> torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all
> the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.
>
> I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case. My airplane
> choices are limited.
Ah, too bad. That kinda sucks. Little bitty airplanes are fun. I wore
my RV-4 like a glove. I sure as heck didn't have any room to do
anything but fly once I put it on. Even handling charts was a
challenge. But it sure felt like *I* was flying.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Yak-List message posted by: "flir47" <me262pilot@comcast.net>
I highly doubt you have 10 grand to bet anyway. Half of the BS you spew here is
accurate. I donEUR(tm)t think your parents let you be correct enough when you
were a child.
I like to know where your FEA data is to back up your claim????
Only an imbecile would pay 250 dollars to listen to your "opinion"
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Mark.bitterlich@navy.mil replies:
The articles I have written on this list regarding the YAK-50 are as accurate as
I can make them. If you feel that anything I have written is inaccurate, point
it out and state what you feel is wrong and your basis for the disagreement.
If anything I have said is wrong, or incorrect, I will be happy to apologize
and correct it. By all means, accuracy and honesty in the written and spoken
word is one of the most important things in life. As regards my comments concerning
the YAK-50 Spar Mod, please read a much better description of this issue
recently written by Richard Goode. Please note his comments about recommended
G limitations of YAK-50's WITH THE SPAR MODIFICATIONS MADE. If you have
questions about maximum G loading of a YAK-50 that does NOT have these modifications,
please ask Richard. I defer to his expertise which in that area is clearly
much better than my own.
Let me be clear. YOU made a claim of owning a YAK-50 that could cruise at 193
miles per hour at 70% power with a 12 GPH fuel burn. Every YAK-50 owner on this
lists knows that is impossible. The more you continue to say it is true, the
more people will doubt anything you might ever say. The smart move right now
is to stop making ridiculous claims and kind of drop out of the picture for
awhile until everyone forgets.
This has nothing to do with spewing BS, or what my parents did or did not do to
me as a child. It has nothing to do with name calling, or trying to anger each
other. It has to do with making true statements and being willing to back
up what comes out of ones mouth with the hard earned money that comes out of ones
wallet. It also does not matter whether I built an RV or not.
My name is Mark Bitterlich. My aircraft's N number is N50YK. I'm in the phone
book. I'd appreciate if you start signing your emails with your own name as
well. It is the honest thing to do, and I am sure you would agree.
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Brian, I can not really get into a 52 OR a CJ. But I also admit to
>> being just short of 6 feet 7 inches tall AND, I am not what you
>> would call "thin" anymore.
>>
>> Yes, truly the 50 has more room. You can also modify it so as to
>> move the seat aft a little bit, which I have done with mine. My
>> torso height is such that sitting in a CJ, if I tilt my head all
>> the way down to my shoulder, I can close the canopy.
>>
>> I wish mightily that all the above was NOT the case. My airplane
>> choices are limited.
replied:
>
>Ah, too bad. That kinda sucks. Little bitty airplanes are fun. I wore
>my RV-4 like a glove. I sure as heck didn't have any room to do
>anything but fly once I put it on. Even handling charts was a
>challenge. But it sure felt like *I* was flying.
My shoulders hit both sides of the 50. A parachute may be able to be
done, but I have yet to be able to get one on, and then get into the
aircraft. You will (I am sure) remember my diatribe with RPA over that
issue. :-) I have so far broken one YAK-50 canopy with my head. It's
worth it though.
I'm completely serious... If I could fit into one, I'd own a CJ-6. And
yes... It sucks so badly you just can barely imagine. Envy is not a
nice thing.
Mark B.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote:
>
> I highly doubt you have 10 grand to bet anyway. Half of the BS you spew here
is accurate. I donEUR(tm)t think your parents let you be correct enough when you
were a child.
> I like to know where your FEA data is to back up your claim????
> Only an imbecile would pay 250 dollars to listen to your "opinion"
>
> --------
> You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
>
>
> Mark.bitterlich@navy.mil replies:
>
> The articles I have written on this list regarding the YAK-50 are as accurate
as I can make them. If you feel that anything I have written is inaccurate,
point it out and state what you feel is wrong and your basis for the disagreement.
If anything I have said is wrong, or incorrect, I will be happy to apologize
and correct it. By all means, accuracy and honesty in the written and spoken
word is one of the most important things in life. As regards my comments
concerning the YAK-50 Spar Mod, please read a much better description of this
issue recently written by Richard Goode. Please note his comments about recommended
G limitations of YAK-50's WITH THE SPAR MODIFICATIONS MADE. If you have
questions about maximum G loading of a YAK-50 that does NOT have these modifications,
please ask Richard. I defer to his expertise which in that area is
clearly much better than my own.
>
> Let me be clear. YOU made a claim of owning a YAK-50 that could cruise at 193
miles per hour at 70% power with a 12 GPH fuel burn. Every YAK-50 owner on
this lists knows that is impossible. The more you continue to say it is true,
the more people will doubt anything you might ever say. The smart move right
now is to stop making ridiculous claims and kind of drop out of the picture for
awhile until everyone forgets.
>
> This has nothing to do with spewing BS, or what my parents did or did not do
to me as a child. It has nothing to do with name calling, or trying to anger
each other. It has to do with making true statements and being willing to back
up what comes out of ones mouth with the hard earned money that comes out of
ones wallet. It also does not matter whether I built an RV or not.
>
> My name is Mark Bitterlich. My aircraft's N number is N50YK. I'm in the phone
book. I'd appreciate if you start signing your emails with your own name as
well. It is the honest thing to do, and I am sure you would agree.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
Just to correct it...... is 160 MPH... I never indicated MPH or KNTS.
I am waiting on his data as well. I hope it includes testing data "FEA"
There is a bit of urban legend and black box type thinking here.
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142089#142089
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Mark,
I believe this is the airplane that Flir47 owns. I met the guy who recently bought
his Yak-52.
http://members.cox.net/yakpilot/n63ra.htm
Being a 1977 model, it seems to have never been modified. I think this airplane
carries some history.
As for room in the Yak-50, I am 5'11" and as far as I am concerned, it is perfect.
If I could only get the seat to recline like the one in the jet I fly does,
all would be good.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142095#142095
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