Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:08 AM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Jan Mevis)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Tim Gagnon)
3. 08:46 AM - Trolls (was: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia) (Brian Lloyd)
4. 09:49 AM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (flir47)
5. 11:22 AM - Test (Walter Lannon)
6. 11:42 AM - Re: Test (Jim Selby)
7. 12:51 PM - Fw: Pneumatic Line Repairs (Walter Lannon)
8. 01:15 PM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Tim Gagnon)
9. 02:14 PM - Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (flir47)
10. 04:06 PM - Re: Pneumatic Line Repairs (Yak Pilot)
11. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Yak Pilot)
12. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Brian Lloyd)
13. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (Roger Kemp)
14. 10:12 PM - Re: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia (netmaster15@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Well, from now on, I'll ignore everything coming from flir47 or me262
(automatic filter to junk mail). Luckily there are other pilots on this list
with very valuable information !!!
Jan Mevis
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Yak Pilot
Sent: zondag 28 oktober 2007 6:55
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Because he is anonymous Jan. I have seen it countless times before all over
the internet, and I suspect everyone else has run into it at one time or
another as well. It usually involves someone who has a real honest to
goodness inferiority complex. In the normal world they are afraid of most
anything and everything, and they hate themselves for it. Simply put, they
are usually closet cowards. When they get access to the internet, they live
to try and transfer some of that frustration and anger they have felt all
throughout their lives to other people. They do this by being very careful
to never let anyone know who they are, where they live, etc. The Internet
becomes the world where they can be a big ole bad ass, and never have to
fear that someone might actually come along and make them stand behind the
way they act, and the way they talk. This is why I so quickly offered to
bet this man $10,000. I knew there was no way in the world that he would
ever accept the offer. He simply can't. That would involve him actually
having to meet someone that he has been so nasty to, and that is something
he will NEVER allow to happen. The thought scares him to death, and when he
feels scared, he gets even more nasty and throws around even more bad
language. He desperately wants respect, but truthfully simply does not know
how to go about getting it. Believe it or not, he really would like to be
good friends with everyone here, he simply does not know how to go about
that either.
There are two mature ways to deal with people like this:
1. Go to the list server owner and ask for him to be removed.
2. Ignore him.
Now, if I could only follow my own advice..... I am trying.
Mark Bitterlich
----- Original Message ----
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:51:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
I would like to know who's hiding behind this flir47 or me262pilot. Why is
he so aggressive ?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of flir47
Sent: zaterdag 27 oktober 2007 18:19
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> > No data to support it...but it is on the internet so it must be true.
>
>
> Wow.....
>
> Richard has been involved in Yaks for a loooooong time and his "opinion"
carries a lot more weight than someone who has owned a Yak-50 for less than
6 months. I would willing to bet that Richard has more time cycling the gear
on a -50 than you do between your former -52 and your new -50.
>
> He has been a great help to this group and I would be willing to bet had
it not been for him,
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*97998591!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_nnr-complex.html
This will give you some info on all the Yak owners in the US. Just put make and
model in the search engine and then the state (Michigan) and you will see there
is only ONE Yak-50 up there. No name yet...soon I am sure.
I met the new -52 owner back in September. I think he has been in touch with a
friend of mine. Let me do some research. He was a nice guy!
I have been called worst than idiot in my life from better people..no sweat. The
older I get, the less I care.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142316#142316
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| Subject: | Trolls (was: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia) |
On Oct 27, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:
> does not know how to go about getting it. Believe it or not, he
> really would like to be good friends with everyone here, he simply
> does not know how to go about that either.
>
> There are two mature ways to deal with people like this:
>
> 1. Go to the list server owner and ask for him to be removed.
> 2. Ignore him.
>
> Now, if I could only follow my own advice..... I am trying.
The official term for a person on a list who does his/her best to sew
hate and discontent is "troll". (I know, some of you think I fit that
description. :-) A troll gets his kicks by stirring up anger and
watching everyone react. When things start to die down they do it again.
Many years of experience with trolls has shown that the best solution
is hit the delete key whenever you see mail from the troll. Better
still, create an autodelete rule in your mail program so you don't
see mail from them at all. This eliminates the desire to respond.
When the troll no longer gets any response to any posting, he moves
somewhere else were he can get a response to his harassment.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Tim G
I'm going to apologize for calling you an Idiot. I let frustration get the better
of me.
MarB I apologize to you also same case. You offer good repair advise.
In the past I have complemented you also!
There are too many opinions here and in some cases nothing to support it.
This has nothing to do with my bird. I knew it was not modded before I bought it.
I don't care because.... I put no value in hearsay.
When someone shows some real data to prove otherwise its not true.
Have a great Sunday!
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142334#142334
Message 5
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Testing system
Message 6
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All Good!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 11:21 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Test
Testing system
Message 7
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| Subject: | Pneumatic Line Repairs |
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Hi Mark;
I guess that may work as an emergency repair for a cracked flare but I
don't recommend it. First that type of defect should be found at your
annual or periodic inspection, it will have been leaking for some time
prior to failure.
Secondly teflon (plumbers) tape should never be used in aircraft systems
though I find this error way too often. A small piece of this material
in a hydraulic (or pneumatic) system can cause a close tolerance valve
to seize and malfunction. Depending on the system in question the result
could be a nuisance or something a little more attention getting like a
gear-up landing, etc.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
There is one repair that I have seen work that I will pass on here.
If your crack or leak is in a flare, you can do a very good emergency
repair by putting in a layer of teflon tape and then wrenching it back
down. It'll get you home, even with 3000 psi in the lines.
Mark Bitterlich
N50yk
----- Original Message ----
From: Vincent Palermo <vpalermo@tampabay.rr.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:03:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Dennis is right, you start putting repair fittings in hard lines,
either fluid or pneumatic and you end up chasing leaks, sorta like
flying on a CH-47D, check the fuel and top off the hydraulic fluid.
Vincent Palermo
vpalermo@tampabay.rr.com
On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:44 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
It is highly recommended you fabricate a replacement line and not
try repairing it.
Dennis
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Hoot (Hank?),
Replace the entire line or cut out the leak area and use a
male/male splicer and 2 nuts. I can help with both.
Always Yakin,
Doug
hkgibby@yahoo.com wrote:
All,
Has anyone had luck on a repair of a small crack/pin-hole in a
pneumatic line? Tips and advice is much appreciated. Thanks.
Hoot
CJ/Jacksonville, FL
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
- The Yak-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
> This has nothing to do with my bird. I knew it was not modded before I bought
it. I don't care because.... I put no value in hearsay.
>
> When someone shows some real data to prove otherwise its not true.
Good luck finding a whole lot of "real data" to begin with. Since the thing was
a throw away airplane, I do not think the Russians spent much time building a
library of technical info on it. (I am not saying they did not put the engineering
into it...just not much documentation). Now, having said that, if they felt
it was important enough to modify the -50 population and then incorporate
that modification into the manufacturing process, I think that says something
about the "proof" you may need. If they did not think it was an issue, why would
they mod the airplane?
I have been flying airplanes long enough to know that when the factory comes out
with a fix, it probably means something needs to be fixed. Remember if this
were a certified airplane, we would have a AD on the airplane and would HAVE to
get it fixed or it would limit the airplanes operation. Those bulletins from
Russia are AD's as far as I am concerned and I would treat them as such.
If you want to go out and pull your airplane around the sky and disregard what
is commonly believed to be a strict limit, have at it. The only person you will
kill will be yourself.
As for buying the airplane without the mod, good luck selling it. I was told to
steer well clear of any -50 without the mod...to include your airplane. Most
people that will spend the money to buy one of these, will do the research and
will be told the same thing and that is...AVOID an airplane without the mod.
Enjoy your airplane....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142356#142356
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
I'm going to hang on the edge here but... I would tend to think that most of the
engineering on the 50 was done with a slide rule. That being said in many cases
the fix for something going wrong was to add more mass. The factory could
have made several mistakes when they put it on the drawing board.
Without the benefit of FEA or some other type of in depth analysis, they could
have been just taking a stab in the dark. Anyone that would take what the factory
does as Gospel isn't making a wise choice.
I didn't buy the 50 to resell... and don't care if I don't either. I told your
acquaintance down there in Ohio that very thing. Anyone trying to make a "throwaway
bird" as a investment may not have made a wise choice.
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142358#142358
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Pneumatic Line Repairs |
Walt, you are absolutely correct. It is not really a good idea to do this. However,
the military has been doing it on hydraulic lines forever, and it is still
being done today. I guess it all depends on get-home-itis! :-)
Mark
----- Original Message ----
From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:50:59 PM
Subject: Fw: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Hi Mark;
I guess that may work as an emergency repair for a cracked flare but I don't recommend
it. First that type of defect should be found at your annual or periodic
inspection, it will have been leaking for some time prior to failure.
Secondly teflon (plumbers) tape should never be used in aircraft systems though
I find this error way too often. A small piece of this material in a hydraulic
(or pneumatic) system can cause a close tolerance valve to seize and malfunction.
Depending on the system in question the result could be a nuisance or something
a little more attention getting like a gear-up landing, etc.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
There is one repair that I have seen work that I will pass on here. If your crack
or leak is in a flare, you can do a very good emergency repair by putting
in a layer of teflon tape and then wrenching it back down. It'll get you home,
even with 3000 psi in the lines.
Mark Bitterlich
N50yk
----- Original Message ----
From: Vincent Palermo <vpalermo@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 8:03:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Dennis is right, you start putting repair fittings in hard lines, either fluid
or pneumatic and you end up chasing leaks, sorta like flying on a CH-47D, check
the fuel and top off the hydraulic fluid.
Vincent Palermo
vpalermo@tampabay.rr.com
On Oct 27, 2007, at 6:44 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
It is highly recommended you fabricate a replacement line and not try repairing
it.
Dennis
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pneumatic Line Repairs
Hoot (Hank?),
Replace the entire line or cut out the leak area and use a male/male splicer and
2 nuts. I can help with both.
Always Yakin,
Doug
hkgibby@yahoo.com wrote:
All,
Has anyone had luck on a repair of a small crack/pin-hole in a pneumatic line?
Tips and advice is much appreciated. Thanks.
Hoot
CJ/Jacksonville, FL
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
- The Yak-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
I am very much an idiot for trying again, but I'll take a stab at it. And no,
I am not being sarcastic about being an idiot. I really must be.
Most aircraft of that period were designed with a slide rule. So was the the original
vehicle that landed on the moon by and large. After the 50 was produced,
there were a few cases of the center wing spar failing. When it did, the
wings folded and killed every pilot it happened to. I was not a Russian citizen
when this happened, so some might call this hear-say. However, I have talked
with the Russian pilots who were there when it did, and I believe them. No
one else has to.
After this happened a few times, someone in Russia said: "OOPS", and changed the
design to include modifications to strengthen the that part of the aircraft.
It is absolutely true that some of these Russian aerobatic pilots were pulling
up around 11 G's. It is also absolutely true that everyone was so worried about
the wings on this airplane that they oftentimes flew them as hard as they could
for around 50 hours and then retired them. I think anyone intimate with
YAK-50's will remember that they oftentimes came into this country with VERY VERY
low airframe time. Mine came into this country with 60 hours on it. Others
have stories close to this.
It is not only possible, but entirely likely that ALL of these 50's were exposed
to very hard G loading. These aircraft were not flown by students, but by up
and coming, or.. already there... Russian Aerobatic experts. In mine, that
was Sergei Boriak. He flew my exact airplane in Kazakhstan. Again it might be
considered hear-say, but you can't get any better to being there than to talk
to the actual Russian pilot who flew your exact airplane in the USSR and have
him tell you EXACTLY what he did with it.
The Spar Mod was meant to reduce the chances of the failure that killed the pilots
mentioned above. That said, I can't see how anyone in the world could not
see that a 50 without these modifications should be flown with more care than
those WITH the modification.
Of course it is also any owners prerogative to say: "Oh to heck with all that nonsense,
I don't believe any of it.".
Mark Bitterlich
And Mr. Flir... I still would appreciate it if you would sign your messages on
this list with your name. If you do not, my question is why do you demand to
remain anonymous?
----- Original Message ----
From: flir47 <me262pilot@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 5:13:38 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
I'm going to hang on the edge here but... I would tend to think that most of the
engineering on the 50 was done with a slide rule. That being said in many cases
the fix for something going wrong was to add more mass. The factory could
have made several mistakes when they put it on the drawing board.
Without the benefit of FEA or some other type of in depth analysis, they could
have been just taking a stab in the dark. Anyone that would take what the factory
does as Gospel isn't making a wise choice.
I didn't buy the 50 to resell... and don't care if I don't either. I told your
acquaintance down there in Ohio that very thing. Anyone trying to make a "throwaway
bird" as a investment may not have made a wise choice.
--------
You built and fly an RV.......BIG DEAL!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=142358#142358
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
On Oct 28, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:
> Most aircraft of that period were designed with a slide rule. So
> was the the original vehicle that landed on the moon by and large.
Absolutely, and most airplanes today still could be safely designed
using a slide rule. A good slide rule will give you 3 digits of
precision. That represents an error of 0.1%. If an error of 0.1% is
the difference between living and dying then you like your designs to
be just a little too close to the edge for my taste.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Well, I do not know about most of you 50 flyers but I have no desire to push
9 G's or anything above 6. I've been to 9 way to many times in my career.
The one thing I know for sure is that they hurt more the older you get! So
the old arthritic neck pays for that 9 g pull now when I go fly with the
squadron. Seems the young bucks have not learned that the fight can be won
with finesse, SA, and flight path projection. Getting your neck/head trapped
at deep 6 at 9 g's flat ass hurts now!
Now saying that, we are not talking BFM here and the need to pull hard G's
with our 50's. I am sure the spar mod was done for the very reason that Mark
spoke of. Two dead from a folded wing certainly got the Yakolev design
beureaus' attention. I tend to take heed on that also.
We learn from our previous design errors. We are constantly trying to build
safety into our systems by making airframe/engine improvements. On that I
certainly take heed on what the design beureau deemed necessary to change
for the protection of their pilots/students.
Now, as Richard Goode said, it is safe to fly a 50 without the spar mod as
long as it is flown at or below 5 g's. Go for it. Keeping in mind that metal
has memory and without translating the logs we really do not know what we
got in our box of chocolates do we. Assuming everything written in the logs
is accurate. I hope so for my sake and all the other 50 flyers!
Now if the 50s' without spar mods are flown within the g limits recommended,
then it should be safe. But that is my humble opinion and everyone knows
about opinions and anus', we have them! It's how we use them dictates how we
will be remembered.
I know I intend to get the lady in Doug's post (Alonya Smit I believe) busy
translating my logs for the 50 and the 52.
It could be the best $200 I spent. Well atleast after I figure out what
caused the limitation in the free movement of my stick this evening after I
taxied in!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
On Oct 28, 2007, at 4:26 PM, Yak Pilot wrote:
> Most aircraft of that period were designed with a slide rule. So
> was the the original vehicle that landed on the moon by and large.
Absolutely, and most airplanes today still could be safely designed
using a slide rule. A good slide rule will give you 3 digits of
precision. That represents an error of 0.1%. If an error of 0.1% is
the difference between living and dying then you like your designs to
be just a little too close to the edge for my taste.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia |
Mark, Isn't that yak 50 -N 63 RA- the aircraft that has the roll bar in
it? If so , you know who owned it and had to have extensive repairs done
to it, don't you?
CLIFF
-- Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks Tim for the heads up. Here are some interesting tidbits. 1. Fl
ir47 never signs his own name. 2. He is a very sarcastic individual
who enjoys badmouthing anyone and everyone. 3. He got very frantic whe
n it was suggested that a YAK-50 without spar modifications should not p
ull over 5 G's and that not having this modification lowered the worth o
f the aircraft. I should have tied that kind of response to be one fro
m the owner of such an aircraft?4. YAK-50 77-1009 shows an incorrect "N
" number on the YAK census list. 5. N number N63RA shows up at the FAA'
s registration site as "May not be suitable for operation".
6. Tim, can you remember the N number of the 52 that this gent sold? T
hanks, Mark Bitterlich
----- Original Message ----
From: Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 11:58:54 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Introduction/burning fuel in Virginia
Mark,
I believe this is the airplane that Flir47 owns. I met the guy who recen
tly bought his Yak-52.
http://members.cox.net/yakpilot/n63ra.htm
Being a 1977 model, it seems to have never been modified. I think this a
irplane carries some history.
As for room in the Yak-50, I am 5'11" and as far as I am concerned, it i
s perfect. If I could only get the seat to recline like the one in the j
et I fly
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