Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:20 AM - (lou dakos)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: AVweb Breaking News Alert (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:49 AM - Re: Rights of association (Roger Kemp)
5. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Roger Kemp)
6. 07:32 AM - RPA, Parachutes, flight suits and Formation (Drew)
7. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Mark Davis)
8. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (viperdoc)
9. 09:57 AM - Re: (Brian Lloyd)
10. 09:57 AM - Re: AVweb Breaking News Alert (bob)
11. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Mark Davis)
12. 01:11 PM - Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (David McGirt)
13. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Log book translation (Doug Sapp)
14. 02:32 PM - JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP (David McGirt)
15. 02:37 PM - Re: RPA, Parachutes, flight suits and Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 03:03 PM - Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP (Sam Sax)
18. 03:56 PM - Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP (David McGirt)
19. 04:55 PM - Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP (Brian Lloyd)
20. 05:14 PM - Re: M14PEngines-List: M14 on e bay (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
21. 05:55 PM - VPCI-415 Heavy Duty Degreaser (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
22. 06:10 PM - Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
23. 06:41 PM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (shinden33)
24. 07:30 PM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (Jon Boede)
25. 07:50 PM - Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (GreasySideUp)
26. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Brian Lloyd)
27. 08:14 PM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (Roger Kemp)
28. 11:28 PM - Re: VPCI-415 Heavy Duty Degreaser (John W. Cox)
Message 1
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Gentelmen of the Yak list & Rpa
If it has not already been done why not put the nomex issue to a vote
and settle the argument once and for all as it's very tiresome reading
the same crap over and over instead of the very useful information that
flows most of the time.
My own opinion if you want to wear one do it if you don't who gives at
rats anus.
Regards Lou
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
All:
To nomex or not to nomex, that was not the question!!
So...we have two camps - those that wear nomex and those that don't. GREAT.
When is Rome do as the Romans. So when at an RPA event (or for me flying for CAP),
follow the guidelines. Otherwise, this is America - do what you want as
long as it doesn't violate FARs.
Isn't it GREAT to fly communist country airplanes in a country where we have the
freedom to do what we want (within reason).
Now....GO READ the NEW RPA FORMATION MANUAL.
I think we should move on to other topics......
Enjoy the freedom of flight this weekend!!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143348#143348
Message 3
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| Subject: | AVweb Breaking News Alert |
His son is a friend of mine. I am lucky enough to have a signed edition of
his last book.
A humble man.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Selby
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:24 PM
Subject: Yak-List: AVweb Breaking News Alert
> FOR THE LATEST BREAKING NEWS, VISIT: http://www.avweb.com
>
>>>> Another Historical Voice Lost to Time
>
> ENOLA GAY PILOT, PAUL TIBBETS DIES
> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/992-full.html#196498)
>
> Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the Enola Gay, the B-29 that dropped a
> nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, Japan on Aug. 6, 1945 died at his home in
> Columbus, Ohio early Thursday. He was 92. Tibbets was a 30-year-old
> Lt. Col. when he was called on to plan and execute the world-changing
> mission, a missing he told Studs Terkel in a 2002 interview
>
(http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/PaulTibbets_StudsTerkel_EnolaGayIntervie
w_2002_196499-1.html)
> that could have been even more dramatic.
>
> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/992-full.html#196498
>
> You are subscribed to AVweb Breaking News Alerts at alikatz@mbay.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rights of association |
I think he is still in Columbus, Ga. with the B-24 exercising that right of Association!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of b747crew2003@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Rights of association
Jim!!! Are you home and avail for a call ?? Jack Snodgrass
-----Original Message-----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 8:16 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Rights of association
The First Amendment of the Constitution:
Freedom of association is a human right and concept in
constitutional law based on the premise that it is the right of free
adults to
mutually choose their associates for whatever purpose they see fit.
1. Intimate Associations. A fundamental element of personal liberty is
the
right to choose to enter into and maintain certain intimate human
relationships.
2. Expressive Associations. Expressive associations are groups that
engage in activities protected by the First Amendment such as speech,
assembly,
petitioning government for a redress of grievances, and the free
exercise of religion.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
------------------------------------------------------------
See what's new
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
Hey Tim contact me off list.
Doc
Oh, I wear a flight suit some of the time too. Mostly because of the
zippered pockets and FOD. Well so I can stick my cellphone in the left leg
pocket and the SarSat elt in my right leg pocket when I am flying. As for
the heat, that tan desert color is better than the dark green ones. The
sleeves make great sweat rags so that I don't have to keep one in my helmet
bag where I have to look down and dig around for it at the base of the bag
that is carabinered to the right side of the cockpit via a lightening hole
in the bulkhead.
The rest is personal preference, like leaving the top half of the suit off
to the waist with the sleeves tied around the waist. That way you stay a
little cooler. As for hydration, I carry a couple of liters of water stuck
down in the helmet bag front pocket. On the serious side, I drink about 1/2
of that 2 liter bottle while the engine is warming. If I do not get thirsty
in flight, then I finish it off taxing back in or right after I shut down.
That will help keep you hydrated during that flight in that 120 deg cockpit
under that bird cage sun room with the heated air from that oil cooler that
vents into the fuselage on that 50.
On second thought, that may be the reason why I have a 1 hour bladder! 2
liters of water for an hour of flight?!! But if you are peeing dark colored
urine before or after flying (ie, it is not fairly clear), you are getting
dehydrated. Dehydration not only affects mentation, it affects your G
tolerance too.
So there it is, the physiology lesson for the day. To flight suit or
not...your call. I don't care about the "neat place to hang all those
patches". I sanatize. Those patchs make it harder to keep the sleeves tied
around my waist. Liable to un-impress the ladies (or guys depending your
preference...don't ask don't tell thanks to Bill).
I just want my SarSat to make the jump with me in my right leg pocket if I
have to use that parachute that I sit on as a cushion sometime! I would like
to make it easier for Craig and the rest of the CAP find me a little
quicker! I could care less if they find the disposed of airframe.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:27 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
I have spent nearly 13 years wearing a flight suit in temps ranging from -60
F to over 120 F. The thing offers ZERO comfort in the extremes and in fact,
makes those extremes worse. When it is cold outside, they are useless. In
the heat of Iraq, they trap heat and zap energy quickly. As for protection,
ask any life support tech about the true protective nature of the
flightsuit. While your at it, ask them about the protective qualities of the
-55/P helmet. Neither are inspiring....
Wear whats comfortable for YOU.....
I have flown my airplane three times with a flight suit, twice when I flew
the airplane to my guard unit and it was just easier to wear than to pack
it. The other time was when I visited a local museum in hopes of getting a
flying gig in a B-25. (They wear bags so I thought it may help my chances.)
Thats all I have to say about that......
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143305#143305
Message 6
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| Subject: | RPA, Parachutes, flight suits and Formation |
What? I thought I would get my yak list summation and it would be full formation
training posts - not flight suits again!
So here it is folks; What really was the idea behind all this and why...
Btw, a yak post someone sent yesterday gives a clue to it all
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"">Do I have to wear a parachute when flying at RPA events?
RPA Policy: Only if you are conducting formation training with a backseat
instructor (or occupant), in this case you must have a parachute for
both seats with current repack as directed by Federal Aviation
Regulations concerning aerobatics.
That is exactly what the FARS specify. I want to make clear that this
is a change. Before now, if you were receiving instruction of any type,
... Say I was flying wingman with another aircraft, RPA rules were that
I MUST be wearing a parachute, regardless if I was by myself in a two
seat aircraft, or by myself in a ONE seat aircraft. So this then is new
official policy then correct? GREAT! ""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, new as of 2002/3, read on...
When we started in 2001/2, the org (then called YPA) had a long list of [implied]
mandatory gear for flying formation, nomex flight suits & gloves, boots, helmet,
parachutes, ability of the backseat to transmit and crew intercom (front
and back seat communication), all working instruments in both cockpits. Ugg,
I could just see being on the phone with a dead pilots wife, screaming at me why
"your policy was for parachutes and you didn't stop my husband from flying
without a parachute" and then filing a lawsuit against the org and the poor event
organizer. Then asking the organizer of the event, how did this guy strap
in without a parachute!?!, Didn't the lead or someone police them strapping in
(see the insane logic here?)
I heard all the arguments and found, in my opinion, that the org was taking too
much responsibility for the individual safety of the pilot as "policy". We were
taking on the concept of "policing" so much gear, while having a policy that
implied we, the org, were going to somehow insure your personal and individual
safety!!?! So after the first year of "RPA", the policy was changed, after
taking it to the board of directors for debate, to this:
All safety equipment optional, but recommended, except:
- Parachutes would follow the then current FAA FAR 91 regulations concerning aerobatics
and dual seat aircraft. This was due to the practice of flying extended
trail that met aerobatic flight parameters.
- Shoes that enclosed the foot (more for you stubbing your toe at the crud game
)
- Aircraft must have cockpit to cockpit communication capability and backseat must
have transmit/recieve capability
The following year, the backseat instrumentation policy, another one that caused
issues for members (it's not uncommon that if you had a light or instrument
go out in the front cockpit, until you could get a replacement, you would swap
it for its identical instrument in the back, sincet he aircraft was "PIC from
the front" , it may thus be legal to fly in such a condition), was changed to
"line up" with the FAA Regs, the idea being, if your aircraft POH, or other procedural
guide (emergency checklist), or regulatory guidance required an instrument
in the backseat, then it needed to be there or appropriately removed/marked
inoperative IAW FAA guidelines (btw, when I was pitching this change to the
board of directors, Mike Filucci provided me the FAA wording on "marking inoperative
instruments" which I then included in the written guidance and you can
still find the FAA policy there I believe).
However, and this was, in my opinion, critical to the policy change: in all cases,
the policy highly recommended you keep your aircraft in excellent working
order including all instruments, and left the RPA backseat instructor as the final
say on whether he or she would fly in your aircraft - they are the "boots
on the ground" and the ones hangin their butts out, if they say no cause your
backseat generator light is out, RPA policy supported them 100%, on the other
hand, if they were willing to fly in the back pit with an inoperative rear CHT
and ask you to call it out when you should be checking it anyways (hint: teaching
good formation habits), the policy supported that decision as well..., and
we provided some guidance on what instruments should definetly be working in
that backseat to facilitate instruction and safety, such as altitude, airspeed,
oil temp, etc.
..all this was on the website and communicated through ecoms over the years. I
just put this policy information on the new "wingmans course page" which is the
master formation link on the home page, so its easy to find (same place as the
manual). The new folks will update it as needed.
Get it? In all cases your individual safety became more your responsibility and
decision, and less the orgs,but the policy shifted to meeting whatever laws/regulations
we fell under as a group while promoting good judgment and safe operating
practices and equipment. I still believe this is the best approach for
the org...as I will say in this post, you can write admin@flyredstar.org to get
to Darrell and the org to voice your opinion directly!
Why flight suits were retained in the RPA, but nomex gloves were not?....
While most indivudual safety gear was moved to "highly recommended". the wear of
a flight suit was retained because in all honesty, I felt (and the then BoD
approved the decision) that that one piece of equipment served multiple purposes
and was in the best interest of the organization as a whole, and thus would
serve the membership / aircraft owners individually (although you may not see
the value). Oh, this is going to spin a few people up. Wearing of nomex as some
of you have recounted, can save skin in a mishap - With that concept aside,
the flight suit itself (generally green, but humans love free will and some showed
up as desert warriors and a few blacks and blues along the way, and yes,
some were none nomex knock offs) also was one small part (among many) that helped
alter the perception of "those pilots flying that chinese and russian imported
crap" by those who observed this growing organization, which helps everyone
from aircraft/parts sales
to owners and airshow formation flyers. I once went in to the Long Beach FSDO
to hack it out with the FAA Officer in 2001 who was rewriting all regional ops
limits and making them unfairly restrictive, including mine! (he later kicked
off my mechanics L-29s from my airport), he said, "I saw you guys a few years
ago on the ramp, leaking oil - I don't want those aircraft dropping their parts
over populated areas of this city (greater LA)". I heard this kind of perception
from other members around the country. Btw, RPA member Ron Lee, now treasurer,
finally won the day with this FSDO by working with EAA legal. In the
warbird community we also in 2002 were just emerging from the small kid onthe
block/ugly step child. So from the website (virtual face of the org) to new
patches, new logo, regionalized events, flying a four foot RPA flag 30 ft over
oshkosh and SnF (high on top of Dave McGirts RV) to a uniform that expressed
professionalism as well as
provided some safety to our members, the over all goal was to increase the qualitative
perception of chinese and eastern european/russian imported equipment
and the north american pilots who flew them. I also strongly felt, and many
agreed, that pilots in flight suits who assembled for the brief had their game
face on and thus "head in the game" - the very perception of the commonly clad
aviator promoted the teamwork that is vital to this organization and its prinicipal
activities. Civil formation all too commonly had/has this air of "lets
just go out and wing it", the T-34 manual, quoted for so long as the mother manual
of civil formation, propagated this concept in a way, as it purposely provided
scant detail, leaving the majority of formation knowledge to word of mouth
and the luck of finding a knowledgable and experienced formation instructor.
We still want you to have that opportunity, but the new manual puts the knowledge
in your hands first and
foremost, before you fly with that instructor (novel concept: read it before you
fly and come prepared).
So now, if your reading this, if the flight suit issue kept you from participating
in your regional organizational formation clinics/fly-ins over the years,
please email the organization at admin@fflyredstar.org , no need to go in to a
long argument, the organization knows all sides, simply state: "the mandatory
wear of a flight suit keeps me from flying in RPA event - Iam/am not a member"
The old YPA org policy and later RPA policy was published in the formation manual
itself (and online), the new manual is geared for your everday flying, so it
no longer is an org policy statement, here it is from the new manual -notice
the word "recommended",
1.5.1.1 Safety Equipment:
The list below is the recommended equipment for conducting
formation flight. Although these items are mentioned
for your safety, those marked with * are required items to
receive in-flight instruction.
Nomex/fi re retardant fl ight suit
Protective footwear
Protective gloves
Current parachute
Helmet
Intercom system for two seat aircraft*
Instructor able to transmit outside the aircraft*
Here is the current "BoD Approved" policy statment from the "FAST HQ" page online
at flyredstar:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display formation
sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with their
Wingmen"
While other online statments push "nomex flight suits" the wording specifically
did not. Another intersting note: At ARS in 2006 I asked a group of members/attendees
if they objected or would like the policy changed, it was an open forum,
they bitched about other issues raised, but for the flight suit policy, it
was very clear; they wanted it retained and believed it was the right thing for
the org.
Hope this helps, again, to reach Darrell and the Org, write directly to admin@flyredstar.org
Drew
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
I jam a cold bottle of water between the side bulkhead and the flap
handle. The knob on the handle holds it in place well as long as the flap
handle is in the up position. It won't come out even with negative g. I
always carry the thin sidewalled bottles. Before I put the flaps down I
stuff the empty in a leg pocket in my flight suit if I'm wearing one or
smash it flat and stick it in my chest strap on my chute. I would have like
to have had some place carry about three more this summer for the Front
Range Airshow. It was 95 degrees at showtime. That bottle disappeared
pretty fast holding for our turn in the show riding around in the slot with
no cloud cover.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
> Hey Tim contact me off list.
> Doc
>
> Oh, I wear a flight suit some of the time too. Mostly because of the
> zippered pockets and FOD. Well so I can stick my cellphone in the left leg
> pocket and the SarSat elt in my right leg pocket when I am flying. As for
> the heat, that tan desert color is better than the dark green ones. The
> sleeves make great sweat rags so that I don't have to keep one in my
> helmet
> bag where I have to look down and dig around for it at the base of the
> bag
> that is carabinered to the right side of the cockpit via a lightening hole
> in the bulkhead.
> The rest is personal preference, like leaving the top half of the suit off
> to the waist with the sleeves tied around the waist. That way you stay a
> little cooler. As for hydration, I carry a couple of liters of water stuck
> down in the helmet bag front pocket. On the serious side, I drink about
> 1/2
> of that 2 liter bottle while the engine is warming. If I do not get
> thirsty
> in flight, then I finish it off taxing back in or right after I shut down.
> That will help keep you hydrated during that flight in that 120 deg
> cockpit
> under that bird cage sun room with the heated air from that oil cooler
> that
> vents into the fuselage on that 50.
> On second thought, that may be the reason why I have a 1 hour bladder! 2
> liters of water for an hour of flight?!! But if you are peeing dark
> colored
> urine before or after flying (ie, it is not fairly clear), you are getting
> dehydrated. Dehydration not only affects mentation, it affects your G
> tolerance too.
> So there it is, the physiology lesson for the day. To flight suit or
> not...your call. I don't care about the "neat place to hang all those
> patches". I sanatize. Those patchs make it harder to keep the sleeves tied
> around my waist. Liable to un-impress the ladies (or guys depending your
> preference...don't ask don't tell thanks to Bill).
> I just want my SarSat to make the jump with me in my right leg pocket if I
> have to use that parachute that I sit on as a cushion sometime! I would
> like
> to make it easier for Craig and the rest of the CAP find me a little
> quicker! I could care less if they find the disposed of airframe.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:27 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
>
> I have spent nearly 13 years wearing a flight suit in temps ranging
> from -60
> F to over 120 F. The thing offers ZERO comfort in the extremes and in
> fact,
> makes those extremes worse. When it is cold outside, they are useless. In
> the heat of Iraq, they trap heat and zap energy quickly. As for
> protection,
> ask any life support tech about the true protective nature of the
> flightsuit. While your at it, ask them about the protective qualities of
> the
> -55/P helmet. Neither are inspiring....
>
> Wear whats comfortable for YOU.....
>
> I have flown my airplane three times with a flight suit, twice when I flew
> the airplane to my guard unit and it was just easier to wear than to pack
> it. The other time was when I visited a local museum in hopes of getting a
> flying gig in a B-25. (They wear bags so I thought it may help my
> chances.)
>
> Thats all I have to say about that......
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143305#143305
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
You know a camelback with hook around the back of our seats. Does cause a
lump to lean back on (the buckles). It is a pain to take out of a 52 but
easy in a 50.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
I jam a cold bottle of water between the side bulkhead and the flap
handle. The knob on the handle holds it in place well as long as the flap
handle is in the up position. It won't come out even with negative g. I
always carry the thin sidewalled bottles. Before I put the flaps down I
stuff the empty in a leg pocket in my flight suit if I'm wearing one or
smash it flat and stick it in my chest strap on my chute. I would have like
to have had some place carry about three more this summer for the Front
Range Airshow. It was 95 degrees at showtime. That bottle disappeared
pretty fast holding for our turn in the show riding around in the slot with
no cloud cover.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:23 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
> Hey Tim contact me off list.
> Doc
>
> Oh, I wear a flight suit some of the time too. Mostly because of the
> zippered pockets and FOD. Well so I can stick my cellphone in the left leg
> pocket and the SarSat elt in my right leg pocket when I am flying. As for
> the heat, that tan desert color is better than the dark green ones. The
> sleeves make great sweat rags so that I don't have to keep one in my
> helmet
> bag where I have to look down and dig around for it at the base of the
> bag
> that is carabinered to the right side of the cockpit via a lightening hole
> in the bulkhead.
> The rest is personal preference, like leaving the top half of the suit off
> to the waist with the sleeves tied around the waist. That way you stay a
> little cooler. As for hydration, I carry a couple of liters of water stuck
> down in the helmet bag front pocket. On the serious side, I drink about
> 1/2
> of that 2 liter bottle while the engine is warming. If I do not get
> thirsty
> in flight, then I finish it off taxing back in or right after I shut down.
> That will help keep you hydrated during that flight in that 120 deg
> cockpit
> under that bird cage sun room with the heated air from that oil cooler
> that
> vents into the fuselage on that 50.
> On second thought, that may be the reason why I have a 1 hour bladder! 2
> liters of water for an hour of flight?!! But if you are peeing dark
> colored
> urine before or after flying (ie, it is not fairly clear), you are getting
> dehydrated. Dehydration not only affects mentation, it affects your G
> tolerance too.
> So there it is, the physiology lesson for the day. To flight suit or
> not...your call. I don't care about the "neat place to hang all those
> patches". I sanatize. Those patchs make it harder to keep the sleeves tied
> around my waist. Liable to un-impress the ladies (or guys depending your
> preference...don't ask don't tell thanks to Bill).
> I just want my SarSat to make the jump with me in my right leg pocket if I
> have to use that parachute that I sit on as a cushion sometime! I would
> like
> to make it easier for Craig and the rest of the CAP find me a little
> quicker! I could care less if they find the disposed of airframe.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:27 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
>
> I have spent nearly 13 years wearing a flight suit in temps ranging
> from -60
> F to over 120 F. The thing offers ZERO comfort in the extremes and in
> fact,
> makes those extremes worse. When it is cold outside, they are useless. In
> the heat of Iraq, they trap heat and zap energy quickly. As for
> protection,
> ask any life support tech about the true protective nature of the
> flightsuit. While your at it, ask them about the protective qualities of
> the
> -55/P helmet. Neither are inspiring....
>
> Wear whats comfortable for YOU.....
>
> I have flown my airplane three times with a flight suit, twice when I flew
> the airplane to my guard unit and it was just easier to wear than to pack
> it. The other time was when I visited a local museum in hopes of getting a
> flying gig in a B-25. (They wear bags so I thought it may help my
> chances.)
>
> Thats all I have to say about that......
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143305#143305
>
>
>
Message 9
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On Nov 2, 2007, at 2:15 AM, lou dakos wrote:
> Gentelmen of the Yak list & Rpa
>
> If it has not already been done why not put the nomex issue to a
> vote and settle the argument once and for all as it's very tiresome
> reading the same crap over and over instead of the very useful
> information that flows most of the time.
The only problem with a vote is it means that 51% can dictate to the
49% how they should dress to fly their airplanes. Democracy only
works when your side wins. ;-)
> My own opinion if you want to wear one do it if you don't who gives
> at rats anus.
I agree with you 100%.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: AVweb Breaking News Alert |
I met him a couple years ago at OSH. It was something i had wanted to
do for a long time. I shook his hand and thanked him for what he had
done, explaining that i was born in 1948. Had he not dropped the bomb
my dad could have been one of the thousands of expected casualties of
the invasion and i wouldn't be here.
His passing is not receiving the honor and attention it should because
today's PC crowd is embarrassed by those bombings.
My memory of those who survived the war is clear: their only regret was
that we only had two bombs.
bob
Jim Selby wrote:
>
>> FOR THE LATEST BREAKING NEWS, VISIT: http://www.avweb.com
>>
>>>>> Another Historical Voice Lost to Time
>>>>
>>
>> ENOLA GAY PILOT, PAUL TIBBETS DIES
>> (http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/992-full.html#196498)
>>
>> Paul Tibbets, the pilot of the Enola Gay, the B-29 that dropped a
>> nuclear bomb on Hiroshima, Japan on Aug. 6, 1945 died at his home in
>> Columbus, Ohio early Thursday. He was 92. Tibbets was a 30-year-old
>> Lt. Col. when he was called on to plan and execute the world-changing
>> mission, a missing he told Studs Terkel in a 2002 interview
>> (http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/PaulTibbets_StudsTerkel_EnolaGayInterview_2002_196499-1.html)
>>
>> that could have been even more dramatic.
>>
>> http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/992-full.html#196498
>>
>> You are subscribed to AVweb Breaking News Alerts at alikatz@mbay.net
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
Doc,
I thought about that last summer. My son has one for his motorcycle
that I thought I might try to see if I can make it fit securely behind the
seat before I buy one.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "viperdoc" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
> You know a camelback with hook around the back of our seats. Does cause a
> lump to lean back on (the buckles). It is a pain to take out of a 52 but
> easy in a 50.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:54 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
>
> I jam a cold bottle of water between the side bulkhead and the flap
> handle. The knob on the handle holds it in place well as long as the flap
> handle is in the up position. It won't come out even with negative g. I
> always carry the thin sidewalled bottles. Before I put the flaps down I
> stuff the empty in a leg pocket in my flight suit if I'm wearing one or
> smash it flat and stick it in my chest strap on my chute. I would have
> like
>
> to have had some place carry about three more this summer for the Front
> Range Airshow. It was 95 degrees at showtime. That bottle disappeared
> pretty fast holding for our turn in the show riding around in the slot
> with
> no cloud cover.
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:23 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>
>
>>
>> Hey Tim contact me off list.
>> Doc
>>
>> Oh, I wear a flight suit some of the time too. Mostly because of the
>> zippered pockets and FOD. Well so I can stick my cellphone in the left
>> leg
>> pocket and the SarSat elt in my right leg pocket when I am flying. As for
>> the heat, that tan desert color is better than the dark green ones. The
>> sleeves make great sweat rags so that I don't have to keep one in my
>> helmet
>> bag where I have to look down and dig around for it at the base of the
>> bag
>> that is carabinered to the right side of the cockpit via a lightening
>> hole
>> in the bulkhead.
>> The rest is personal preference, like leaving the top half of the suit
>> off
>> to the waist with the sleeves tied around the waist. That way you stay a
>> little cooler. As for hydration, I carry a couple of liters of water
>> stuck
>> down in the helmet bag front pocket. On the serious side, I drink about
>> 1/2
>> of that 2 liter bottle while the engine is warming. If I do not get
>> thirsty
>> in flight, then I finish it off taxing back in or right after I shut
>> down.
>> That will help keep you hydrated during that flight in that 120 deg
>> cockpit
>> under that bird cage sun room with the heated air from that oil cooler
>> that
>> vents into the fuselage on that 50.
>> On second thought, that may be the reason why I have a 1 hour bladder! 2
>> liters of water for an hour of flight?!! But if you are peeing dark
>> colored
>> urine before or after flying (ie, it is not fairly clear), you are
>> getting
>> dehydrated. Dehydration not only affects mentation, it affects your G
>> tolerance too.
>> So there it is, the physiology lesson for the day. To flight suit or
>> not...your call. I don't care about the "neat place to hang all those
>> patches". I sanatize. Those patchs make it harder to keep the sleeves
>> tied
>> around my waist. Liable to un-impress the ladies (or guys depending your
>> preference...don't ask don't tell thanks to Bill).
>> I just want my SarSat to make the jump with me in my right leg pocket if
>> I
>> have to use that parachute that I sit on as a cushion sometime! I would
>> like
>> to make it easier for Craig and the rest of the CAP find me a little
>> quicker! I could care less if they find the disposed of airframe.
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
>> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 8:27 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
>>
>>
>> I have spent nearly 13 years wearing a flight suit in temps ranging
>> from -60
>> F to over 120 F. The thing offers ZERO comfort in the extremes and in
>> fact,
>> makes those extremes worse. When it is cold outside, they are useless. In
>> the heat of Iraq, they trap heat and zap energy quickly. As for
>> protection,
>> ask any life support tech about the true protective nature of the
>> flightsuit. While your at it, ask them about the protective qualities of
>> the
>> -55/P helmet. Neither are inspiring....
>>
>> Wear whats comfortable for YOU.....
>>
>> I have flown my airplane three times with a flight suit, twice when I
>> flew
>> the airplane to my guard unit and it was just easier to wear than to pack
>> it. The other time was when I visited a local museum in hopes of getting
>> a
>> flying gig in a B-25. (They wear bags so I thought it may help my
>> chances.)
>>
>> Thats all I have to say about that......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143305#143305
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
Based on real world experience, what would you say is the BEST ( not
cheapest ) EFIS for a Yak / CJ
I have been using a Dynon D10A for sometime, and like it, but I am curious
of the over all consensus, and would really like to have a DG that is worth
a damn, so I am thinking about moving up or something.. But it has to fit
in the panel =AD ie =AD in an existing hole...
Looking at:
Dynon 10A
Blue Mountain Lite G4
Aspen Avionics Pilot PFD
On 11/2/07 10:26 AM, "Drew" <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> What? I thought I would get my yak list summation and it would be full
> formation training posts - not flight suits again!
>
> So here it is folks; What really was the idea behind all this and why...
>
> Btw, a yak post someone sent yesterday gives a clue to it all
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "">Do I have to wear a parachute when flying at RPA events?
>
> RPA Policy: Only if you are conducting formation training with a backseat
> instructor (or occupant), in this case you must have a parachute for
> both seats with current repack as directed by Federal Aviation
> Regulations concerning aerobatics.
>
> That is exactly what the FARS specify. I want to make clear that this
> is a change. Before now, if you were receiving instruction of any type,
> ... Say I was flying wingman with another aircraft, RPA rules were that
> I MUST be wearing a parachute, regardless if I was by myself in a two
> seat aircraft, or by myself in a ONE seat aircraft. So this then is new
> official policy then correct? GREAT! ""
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Well, new as of 2002/3, read on...
>
> When we started in 2001/2, the org (then called YPA) had a long list of
> [implied] mandatory gear for flying formation, nomex flight suits & glove
s,
> boots, helmet, parachutes, ability of the backseat to transmit and crew
> intercom (front and back seat communication), all working instruments in
both
> cockpits. Ugg, I could just see being on the phone with a dead pilots wif
e,
> screaming at me why "your policy was for parachutes and you didn't stop m
y
> husband from flying without a parachute" and then filing a lawsuit agains
t the
> org and the poor event organizer. Then asking the organizer of the event
, how
> did this guy strap in without a parachute!?!, Didn't the lead or someone
> police them strapping in (see the insane logic here?)
>
> I heard all the arguments and found, in my opinion, that the org was taki
ng
> too much responsibility for the individual safety of the pilot as "policy
". We
> were taking on the concept of "policing" so much gear, while having a pol
icy
> that implied we, the org, were going to somehow insure your personal and
> individual safety!!?! So after the first year of "RPA", the policy was
> changed, after taking it to the board of directors for debate, to this:
>
> All safety equipment optional, but recommended, except:
> - Parachutes would follow the then current FAA FAR 91 regulations concern
ing
> aerobatics and dual seat aircraft. This was due to the practice of flying
> extended trail that met aerobatic flight parameters.
> - Shoes that enclosed the foot (more for you stubbing your toe at the cru
d
> game )
> - Aircraft must have cockpit to cockpit communication capability and back
seat
> must have transmit/recieve capability
>
> The following year, the backseat instrumentation policy, another one that
> caused issues for members (it's not uncommon that if you had a light or
> instrument go out in the front cockpit, until you could get a replacement
, you
> would swap it for its identical instrument in the back, sincet he aircraf
t was
> "PIC from the front" , it may thus be legal to fly in such a condition),
was
> changed to "line up" with the FAA Regs, the idea being, if your aircraft
POH,
> or other procedural guide (emergency checklist), or regulatory guidance
> required an instrument in the backseat, then it needed to be there or
> appropriately removed/marked inoperative IAW FAA guidelines (btw, when I
was
> pitching this change to the board of directors, Mike Filucci provided me
the
> FAA wording on "marking inoperative instruments" which I then included in
the
> written guidance and you can still find the FAA policy there I believe).
>
> However, and this was, in my opinion, critical to the policy change: in a
ll
> cases, the policy highly recommended you keep your aircraft in excellent
> working order including all instruments, and left the RPA backseat instru
ctor
> as the final say on whether he or she would fly in your aircraft - they a
re
> the "boots on the ground" and the ones hangin their butts out, if they sa
y no
> cause your backseat generator light is out, RPA policy supported them 100
%, on
> the other hand, if they were willing to fly in the back pit with an
> inoperative rear CHT and ask you to call it out when you should be checki
ng it
> anyways (hint: teaching good formation habits), the policy supported that
> decision as well..., and we provided some guidance on what instruments sh
ould
> definetly be working in that backseat to facilitate instruction and safet
y,
> such as altitude, airspeed, oil temp, etc.
>
> ..all this was on the website and communicated through ecoms over the yea
rs. I
> just put this policy information on the new "wingmans course page" which
is
> the master formation link on the home page, so its easy to find (same pla
ce as
> the manual). The new folks will update it as needed.
>
> Get it? In all cases your individual safety became more your responsibili
ty
> and decision, and less the orgs,but the policy shifted to meeting whateve
r
> laws/regulations we fell under as a group while promoting good judgment a
nd
> safe operating practices and equipment. I still believe this is the best
> approach for the org...as I will say in this post, you can write
> admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org> to get to Darrell and
the
> org to voice your opinion directly!
>
> Why flight suits were retained in the RPA, but nomex gloves were not?....
>
> While most indivudual safety gear was moved to "highly recommended". the
wear
> of a flight suit was retained because in all honesty, I felt (and the the
n BoD
> approved the decision) that that one piece of equipment served multiple
> purposes and was in the best interest of the organization as a whole, and
thus
> would serve the membership / aircraft owners individually (although you m
ay
> not see the value). Oh, this is going to spin a few people up. Wearing of
> nomex as some of you have recounted, can save skin in a mishap - With tha
t
> concept aside, the flight suit itself (generally green, but humans love f
ree
> will and some showed up as desert warriors and a few blacks and blues alo
ng
> the way, and yes, some were none nomex knock offs) also was one small par
t
> (among many) that helped alter the perception of "those pilots flying tha
t
> chinese and russian imported crap" by those who observed this growing
> organization, which helps everyone from aircraft/parts sales to owners an
d
> airshow formation flyers. I once went in to the Long Beach FSDO to hack
it
> out with the FAA Officer in 2001 who was rewriting all regional ops limit
s and
> making them unfairly restrictive, including mine! (he later kicked off m
y
> mechanics L-29s from my airport), he said, "I saw you guys a few years ag
o on
> the ramp, leaking oil - I don't want those aircraft dropping their parts
over
> populated areas of this city (greater LA)". I heard this kind of percept
ion
> from other members around the country. Btw, RPA member Ron Lee, now treas
urer,
> finally won the day with this FSDO by working with EAA legal. In the war
bird
> community we also in 2002 were just emerging from the small kid onthe
> block/ugly step child. So from the website (virtual face of the org) to n
ew
> patches, new logo, regionalized events, flying a four foot RPA flag 30 ft
over
> oshkosh and SnF (high on top of Dave McGirts RV) to a uniform that expres
sed
> professionalism as well as provided some safety to our members, the over
all
> goal was to increase the qualitative perception of chinese and eastern
> european/russian imported equipment and the north american pilots who fle
w
> them. I also strongly felt, and many agreed, that pilots in flight suits
who
> assembled for the brief had their game face on and thus "head in the game
" -
> the very perception of the commonly clad aviator promoted the teamwork th
at is
> vital to this organization and its prinicipal activities. Civil formation
all
> too commonly had/has this air of "lets just go out and wing it", the T-34
> manual, quoted for so long as the mother manual of civil formation, propa
gated
> this concept in a way, as it purposely provided scant detail, leaving the
> majority of formation knowledge to word of mouth and the luck of finding
a
> knowledgable and experienced formation instructor. We still want you to h
ave
> that opportunity, but the new manual puts the knowledge in your hands fir
st
> and foremost, before you fly with that instructor (novel concept: read it
> before you fly and come prepared).
>
> So now, if your reading this, if the flight suit issue kept you from
> participating in your regional organizational formation clinics/fly-ins o
ver
> the years, please email the organization at admin@fflyredstar.org
> <mailto:admin@fflyredstar.org> , no need to go in to a long argument, th
e
> organization knows all sides, simply state: "the mandatory wear of a flig
ht
> suit keeps me from flying in RPA event - Iam/am not a member"
>
> The old YPA org policy and later RPA policy was published in the formatio
n
> manual itself (and online), the new manual is geared for your everday fly
ing,
> so it no longer is an org policy statement, here it is from the new manua
l
> -notice the word "recommended",
>
> 1.5.1.1 Safety Equipment:
>
> The list below is the recommended equipment for conducting
>
> formation flight. Although these items are mentioned
>
> for your safety, those marked with * are required items to
>
> receive in-flight instruction.
>
> Nomex/fi re retardant fl ight suit
>
> Protective footwear
>
> Protective gloves
>
> Current parachute
>
> Helmet
>
> Intercom system for two seat aircraft*
>
> Instructor able to transmit outside the aircraft*
>
>
>
> Here is the current "BoD Approved" policy statment from the "FAST HQ" pag
e
> online at flyredstar:
>
>
>
> "A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
> formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this po
licy
> with their Wingmen"
>
>
>
> While other online statments push "nomex flight suits" the wording
> specifically did not. Another intersting note: At ARS in 2006 I asked a g
roup
> of members/attendees if they objected or would like the policy changed, i
t was
> an open forum, they bitched about other issues raised, but for the flight
suit
> policy, it was very clear; they wanted it retained and believed it was th
e
> right thing for the org.
>
> Hope this helps, again, to reach Darrell and the Org, write directly to
> admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
>
> Drew
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Log book translation |
Jack,
I am a old hand at poking around in China and like you know lots of
college educated folks who are very able to read and write Mandarin.
But that is only half the requirements, they must also speak aviation in
English, if not you end up with a set of screwball terms and misplaced
tenses which are more confusing than Mandarin itself. Very close to
Pennsylvania Dutch " throw grandpa down the stairs his hat". In log
books it just don't work. If your folks are aviation oriented please
let us know.
Always Yakin,
Doug
jack wrote:
>
>I'm a subscriber here for a couple years, reading quietly ... focused upon the
Nanchang ...though interested, envious, of the talk among you fellas about your
airplanes.
>
>I'm formerly a tailhook navy puke and China hand now in Asia though I do not read
characters well enough to nail the translations you seek. However, I am surrounded
by family with university educations who can do the work.
>
>Likely I can get log books done well and timely and, it can be fun to get involved.
>
>Logistics: It feels easy and straightforward to have the logs scanned to a file
and sent to me.
>
>A couple questions so I can get my thought around the work: How many pages in
the Chinee logs? Howmany lines a page? This is a guess, I know, though how many
log books do you think are the "need or helpful to be translated" group?
>
>I'm gone for a week or so beginning today so I will not answer any reply until
week of November 12.
>
>best ...
>
>Melaka Jack
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143315#143315
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP |
One more winter project, I am adding a JPI EDM 700-9C to the Yak , I would
love to get some insight from anyone that has already done this, any extra
parts I should know about?
Clif , do I need the "western" fittings, or am I set with the TW stuff...
David
Message 15
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| Subject: | RPA, Parachutes, flight suits and Formation |
Very well written history review Drew. Even though I am participating
in this discussion, I have made a lot of effort to avoid opening
Pandora's Box all the way, or at least I have tried to. Many people are
fed up hearing about this subject and would rather discuss things that
are of direct interest to themselves rather than what is worn when
flying an airplane. I tend to agree with them to a point. And as you
well know, you and I have been through this publicly and privately
before. I ask them to just be patient for a tad longer, sometimes the
flotsam comes with the jetsam.
The bottom line is this (quote):
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
policy with their Wingmen"
Craig Winkelmann, CFI [capav8r@gmail.com]did not quote it quite as
accurately as you did here. What he clearly said and understood
centered on RPA EVENTS. With all the slashes in that one sentence, it
can have a number of meanings. When you put in a "/", that means that
EITHER word can be used in the sentence or BOTH. The words in question
are: "training/display" and "events/clinics". Thus a legitimate
meaning from your policy statement could be this:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training formation
sortie at RPA clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with their
Wingmen."
That means that if I show up at an RPA sponsored FAST Clinic that it is
mandatory that before I fly formation with another aircraft, the suit is
required. Even with everything you have said, this still represents an
unacceptable situation to me, and clearly is against some of the very
points you made about "enforcing safety". I sincerely doubt that this
EXACT circumstance is what all your members voted FOR. As I said, the
way it is written, there are at least FOUR ways to interpret what it
means. I suggest that you take out two words and have it read like
this:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a display formation
sortie at RPA events. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with their
Wingmen"
Is that so bad? In fact it might even pass muster taking out just ONE
word as in:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a display formation
sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with
their Wingmen"
So that's what it all comes down to Drew. One.. Maybe two... WORDS.
Before I write to: <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org> I will wait for your
reply, because heaven only knows, it could all easily just be one big
misunderstanding!
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Drew
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 10:26
Subject: Yak-List: RPA, Parachutes, flight suits and Formation
What? I thought I would get my yak list summation and it would be full
formation training posts - not flight suits again!
So here it is folks; What really was the idea behind all this and why...
Btw, a yak post someone sent yesterday gives a clue to it all
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"">Do I have to wear a parachute when flying at RPA events?
RPA Policy: Only if you are conducting formation training with a
backseat instructor (or occupant), in this case you must have a
parachute for both seats with current repack as directed by Federal
Aviation Regulations concerning aerobatics.
That is exactly what the FARS specify. I want to make clear that this
is a change. Before now, if you were receiving instruction of any type,
... Say I was flying wingman with another aircraft, RPA rules were that
I MUST be wearing a parachute, regardless if I was by myself in a two
seat aircraft, or by myself in a ONE seat aircraft. So this then is new
official policy then correct? GREAT! ""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, new as of 2002/3, read on...
When we started in 2001/2, the org (then called YPA) had a long list of
[implied] mandatory gear for flying formation, nomex flight suits &
gloves, boots, helmet, parachutes, ability of the backseat to transmit
and crew intercom (front and back seat communication), all working
instruments in both cockpits. Ugg, I could just see being on the phone
with a dead pilots wife, screaming at me why "your policy was for
parachutes and you didn't stop my husband from flying without a
parachute" and then filing a lawsuit against the org and the poor event
organizer. Then asking the organizer of the event, how did this guy
strap in without a parachute!?!, Didn't the lead or someone police them
strapping in (see the insane logic here?)
I heard all the arguments and found, in my opinion, that the org was
taking too much responsibility for the individual safety of the pilot as
"policy". We were taking on the concept of "policing" so much gear,
while having a policy that implied we, the org, were going to somehow
insure your personal and individual safety!!?! So after the first year
of "RPA", the policy was changed, after taking it to the board of
directors for debate, to this:
All safety equipment optional, but recommended, except:
- Parachutes would follow the then current FAA FAR 91 regulations
concerning aerobatics and dual seat aircraft. This was due to the
practice of flying extended trail that met aerobatic flight parameters.
- Shoes that enclosed the foot (more for you stubbing your toe at the
crud game )
- Aircraft must have cockpit to cockpit communication capability and
backseat must have transmit/recieve capability
The following year, the backseat instrumentation policy, another one
that caused issues for members (it's not uncommon that if you had a
light or instrument go out in the front cockpit, until you could get a
replacement, you would swap it for its identical instrument in the back,
sincet he aircraft was "PIC from the front" , it may thus be legal to
fly in such a condition), was changed to "line up" with the FAA Regs,
the idea being, if your aircraft POH, or other procedural guide
(emergency checklist), or regulatory guidance required an instrument in
the backseat, then it needed to be there or appropriately removed/marked
inoperative IAW FAA guidelines (btw, when I was pitching this change to
the board of directors, Mike Filucci provided me the FAA wording on
"marking inoperative instruments" which I then included in the written
guidance and you can still find the FAA policy there I believe).
However, and this was, in my opinion, critical to the policy change: in
all cases, the policy highly recommended you keep your aircraft in
excellent working order including all instruments, and left the RPA
backseat instructor as the final say on whether he or she would fly in
your aircraft - they are the "boots on the ground" and the ones hangin
their butts out, if they say no cause your backseat generator light is
out, RPA policy supported them 100%, on the other hand, if they were
willing to fly in the back pit with an inoperative rear CHT and ask you
to call it out when you should be checking it anyways (hint: teaching
good formation habits), the policy supported that decision as well...,
and we provided some guidance on what instruments should definetly be
working in that backseat to facilitate instruction and safety, such as
altitude, airspeed, oil temp, etc.
..all this was on the website and communicated through ecoms over the
years. I just put this policy information on the new "wingmans course
page" which is the master formation link on the home page, so its easy
to find (same place as the manual). The new folks will update it as
needed.
Get it? In all cases your individual safety became more your
responsibility and decision, and less the orgs,but the policy shifted to
meeting whatever laws/regulations we fell under as a group while
promoting good judgment and safe operating practices and equipment. I
still believe this is the best approach for the org...as I will say in
this post, you can write admin@flyredstar.org
<mailto:admin@flyredstar.org> to get to Darrell and the org to voice
your opinion directly!
Why flight suits were retained in the RPA, but nomex gloves were
not?....
While most indivudual safety gear was moved to "highly recommended". the
wear of a flight suit was retained because in all honesty, I felt (and
the then BoD approved the decision) that that one piece of equipment
served multiple purposes and was in the best interest of the
organization as a whole, and thus would serve the membership / aircraft
owners individually (although you may not see the value). Oh, this is
going to spin a few people up. Wearing of nomex as some of you have
recounted, can save skin in a mishap - With that concept aside, the
flight suit itself (generally green, but humans love free will and some
showed up as desert warriors and a few blacks and blues along the way,
and yes, some were none nomex knock offs) also was one small part (among
many) that helped alter the perception of "those pilots flying that
chinese and russian imported crap" by those who observed this growing
organization, which helps everyone from aircraft/parts sales to owners
and airshow formation flyers. I once went in to the Long Beach FSDO to
hack it out with the FAA Officer in 2001 who was rewriting all regional
ops limits and making them unfairly restrictive, including mine! (he
later kicked off my mechanics L-29s from my airport), he said, "I saw
you guys a few years ago on the ramp, leaking oil - I don't want those
aircraft dropping their parts over populated areas of this city (greater
LA)". I heard this kind of perception from other members around the
country. Btw, RPA member Ron Lee, now treasurer, finally won the day
with this FSDO by working with EAA legal. In the warbird community we
also in 2002 were just emerging from the small kid onthe block/ugly step
child. So from the website (virtual face of the org) to new patches, new
logo, regionalized events, flying a four foot RPA flag 30 ft over
oshkosh and SnF (high on top of Dave McGirts RV) to a uniform that
expressed professionalism as well as provided some safety to our
members, the over all goal was to increase the qualitative perception of
chinese and eastern european/russian imported equipment and the north
american pilots who flew them. I also strongly felt, and many agreed,
that pilots in flight suits who assembled for the brief had their game
face on and thus "head in the game" - the very perception of the
commonly clad aviator promoted the teamwork that is vital to this
organization and its prinicipal activities. Civil formation all too
commonly had/has this air of "lets just go out and wing it", the T-34
manual, quoted for so long as the mother manual of civil formation,
propagated this concept in a way, as it purposely provided scant detail,
leaving the majority of formation knowledge to word of mouth and the
luck of finding a knowledgable and experienced formation instructor. We
still want you to have that opportunity, but the new manual puts the
knowledge in your hands first and foremost, before you fly with that
instructor (novel concept: read it before you fly and come prepared).
So now, if your reading this, if the flight suit issue kept you from
participating in your regional organizational formation clinics/fly-ins
over the years, please email the organization at admin@fflyredstar.org
<mailto:admin@fflyredstar.org> , no need to go in to a long argument,
the organization knows all sides, simply state: "the mandatory wear of a
flight suit keeps me from flying in RPA event - Iam/am not a member"
The old YPA org policy and later RPA policy was published in the
formation manual itself (and online), the new manual is geared for your
everday flying, so it no longer is an org policy statement, here it is
from the new manual -notice the word "recommended",
1.5.1.1 Safety Equipment:
The list below is the recommended equipment for conducting
formation flight. Although these items are mentioned
for your safety, those marked with * are required items to
receive in-flight instruction.
Nomex/fi re retardant fl ight suit
Protective footwear
Protective gloves
Current parachute
Helmet
Intercom system for two seat aircraft*
Instructor able to transmit outside the aircraft*
Here is the current "BoD Approved" policy statment from the "FAST HQ"
page online at flyredstar:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
policy with their Wingmen"
While other online statments push "nomex flight suits" the wording
specifically did not. Another intersting note: At ARS in 2006 I asked a
group of members/attendees if they objected or would like the policy
changed, it was an open forum, they bitched about other issues raised,
but for the flight suit policy, it was very clear; they wanted it
retained and believed it was the right thing for the org.
Hope this helps, again, to reach Darrell and the Org, write directly to
admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
Drew
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
Craig, I agree....You're right. That was not the question. (To wear,
or not to wear)
You said:
"So when at an RPA event (or for me flying for CAP), follow the
guidelines. Otherwise, this is America - do what you want as long as it
doesn't violate FARs."
Excuse me Craig.. But as Drew pointed out, what it ACTUALLY says is
this:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
policy with their Wingmen"
In English a slash or slant or solidus or virgule [ / ] (take your pick
of names) is used to indicate a choice between the words it separates,
so you can take what is written above and rewrite it legally as this:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training formation
sortie at RPA clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with their
Wingmen"
AND THAT IS WHAT I TAKE EXCEPTION TO. Is that the policy you think is
fair?
Actually what you have been implying (IMHO) is this:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a display formation
sortie at RPA events. Flight Leads will enforce this policy with their
Wingmen"
And Craig, I have NO PROBLEM WITH THAT AT ALL!
The truth is in the details.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann, CFI
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:15
Subject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
--> <capav8r@gmail.com>
All:
To nomex or not to nomex, that was not the question!!
So...we have two camps - those that wear nomex and those that don't.
GREAT.
When is Rome do as the Romans. So when at an RPA event (or for me
flying for CAP), follow the guidelines. Otherwise, this is America - do
what you want as long as it doesn't violate FARs.
Isn't it GREAT to fly communist country airplanes in a country where we
have the freedom to do what we want (within reason).
Now....GO READ the NEW RPA FORMATION MANUAL.
I think we should move on to other topics......
Enjoy the freedom of flight this weekend!!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143348#143348
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP |
David,
It's an excellent unit! Have been using it for over 5 years in my M-14P CJ6 with
no trouble. I added the fuel computer option also which makes fuel management
a whole lot easier. Good customer service also.
Thanks,
Sam Sax
Miami
-----Original Message-----
>From: David McGirt <david@mcgirt.net>
>Sent: Nov 2, 2007 5:31 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP
>
>
>One more winter project, I am adding a JPI EDM 700-9C to the Yak , I would
>love to get some insight from anyone that has already done this, any extra
>parts I should know about?
>
>Clif , do I need the "western" fittings, or am I set with the TW stuff...
>
>David
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP |
Is the unit capacitive conductor or resistive conductor
On 11/2/07 6:03 PM, "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> David,
>
> It's an excellent unit! Have been using it for over 5 years in my M-14P CJ6
> with no trouble. I added the fuel computer option also which makes fuel
> management a whole lot easier. Good customer service also.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sam Sax
> Miami
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David McGirt <david@mcgirt.net>
>> Sent: Nov 2, 2007 5:31 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP
>>
>>
>> One more winter project, I am adding a JPI EDM 700-9C to the Yak , I would
>> love to get some insight from anyone that has already done this, any extra
>> parts I should know about?
>>
>> Clif , do I need the "western" fittings, or am I set with the TW stuff...
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP |
On Nov 2, 2007, at 3:56 PM, David McGirt wrote:
>
> Is the unit capacitive conductor or resistive conductor
It is not a fuel gauge. It is a fuel totalizer based on fuel flow.
You insert the flow transducer in the fuel line, usually between the
fuel pump and the carburetor. Once calibrated it tells you how much
fuel has flowed between pump and carb as well as fuel burn rate.
Just beware that it does not know how much fuel is in the tanks. You
still need your fuel level gauges.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 20
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| Subject: | RE: M14PEngines-List: M14 on e bay |
Talked to the guy on the phone. He has a true ZERO time engine that was
one of the original "spares" that shipped with the Sukes back in the
day. It has the IRIS on the front and a B&C small Alternator/PMG on it.
He is also selling what looks to be a new 2 blade V-530, but no logs on
that.
Sadly, he knows what he has in his hands, so "it ain't gonna go cheap".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-m14pengines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N395V
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 18:39
Subject: M14PEngines-List: M14 on e bay
--> M14PEngines-List message posted by: "N395V"
--> <airboss@excaliburaviation.com>
There is an M14 on e bay with a Murphy Moose engine mount
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagena
me=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120178577976&rd=1
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143474#143474
Message 21
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| Subject: | VPCI-415 Heavy Duty Degreaser |
Has anybody heard of this stuff? Aircraft Spruce just started selling it. I don't
get it. It says it is alkaline (pH 8.0 to 8.7). Other alkaline cleaners
(Original Simple Green) are not recommended for aluminum. However, this product
is claimed to be used by the Coast Guard in salty environments due to its
anti-corrosion properties.
Any chemists (amateur or professional) want to comment!!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143514#143514
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
Mark:
I did a cut and paste directly from the RPA web site. Go take a look at the FAQs
on the site.
Below is from the "What to Bring to an RPA Clinic or Fly-in Page....
2. Flight Suit - Yep, this ain't the Bonanza Club, we wear flight suits for a lot
of reasons, safety, FOD receptacle, standardization, public awareness, respect.
Nomex or other fire retardant material is your call, but a cheap investment
to help save your skin when getting out of a burning aircraft.
3. Parachutes - Up to you, but we get mighty close together in formation. Extended
Trail often meets the definition of aerobatics, so if you have a backseater,
FARS says ya gotta provide one with a current repack date. Lots of people share
in the RPA.
I'll let Drew clarify what he wrote.
Then, I think it is up to Darrell to decide. From an organization standpoint,
I do understand the RPA wanting its members to look "the part" at events. Be
it nomex or another material the pilot chooses.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143519#143519
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| Subject: | Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
David,
I have a Blue Mountain EFIS Lite G4 in my -52. I don't have experience with any
other system but I love the BM. I bought it specifically for IFR (yes IFR in
an Yak-52 - stop laughing). The EHSI works very well and the built in VFR GPS
with terrain is very useful. This is not to mention the ADI which can be coupled
with the GPS to give you course information. I will say that I had a few
problems getting it dialed in (bad gyro and calibration errors) for which I
had to send the unit back to the factory. They were always very helpful and
fixed every problem with no issues. The EFIS Lite/ Lite+ and Sport all fit
in a standard 3 1/8" instrument hole. I slightly modify an AN type reducer to
mount the BM EFIS in the hole for the Russian attitude indicator with no panel
modifications. The BM also has a lot of nifty gadgets and algorithms, feel
free to drop me a line off post and I can give you more details.
Best Regards
Scott
N8252
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143522#143522
Message 24
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| Subject: | Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
I have been using a Collins PN-101 HSI in my airplane (linked to my Garmin
300)... have been beating the P@@ out of it with acro and whatnot for over
1,000 hours now and it's still flawless.
But it's a slaved gyro, not EFIS. But then, I'm old-fashioned. :-)
>From: David McGirt <david@mcgirt.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ
>Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:09:47 -0400
>
>Based on real world experience, what would you say is the BEST ( not
>cheapest ) EFIS for a Yak / CJ
>
>
>I have been using a Dynon D10A for sometime, and like it, but I am curious
>of the over all consensus, and would really like to have a DG that is worth
>a damn, so I am thinking about moving up or something.. But it has to fit
>in the panel ie in an existing hole...
>
>
>Looking at:
>
>Dynon 10A
>Blue Mountain Lite G4
>Aspen Avionics Pilot PFD
>
>
>On 11/2/07 10:26 AM, "Drew" <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > What? I thought I would get my yak list summation and it would be full
> > formation training posts - not flight suits again!
> >
> > So here it is folks; What really was the idea behind all this and why...
> >
> > Btw, a yak post someone sent yesterday gives a clue to it all
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > "">Do I have to wear a parachute when flying at RPA events?
> >
> > RPA Policy: Only if you are conducting formation training with a
>backseat
> > instructor (or occupant), in this case you must have a parachute for
> > both seats with current repack as directed by Federal Aviation
> > Regulations concerning aerobatics.
> >
> > That is exactly what the FARS specify. I want to make clear that this
> > is a change. Before now, if you were receiving instruction of any type,
> > ... Say I was flying wingman with another aircraft, RPA rules were that
> > I MUST be wearing a parachute, regardless if I was by myself in a two
> > seat aircraft, or by myself in a ONE seat aircraft. So this then is new
> > official policy then correct? GREAT! ""
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Well, new as of 2002/3, read on...
> >
> > When we started in 2001/2, the org (then called YPA) had a long list of
> > [implied] mandatory gear for flying formation, nomex flight suits &
>gloves,
> > boots, helmet, parachutes, ability of the backseat to transmit and crew
> > intercom (front and back seat communication), all working instruments in
>both
> > cockpits. Ugg, I could just see being on the phone with a dead pilots
>wife,
> > screaming at me why "your policy was for parachutes and you didn't stop
>my
> > husband from flying without a parachute" and then filing a lawsuit
>against the
> > org and the poor event organizer. Then asking the organizer of the
>event, how
> > did this guy strap in without a parachute!?!, Didn't the lead or someone
> > police them strapping in (see the insane logic here?)
> >
> > I heard all the arguments and found, in my opinion, that the org was
>taking
> > too much responsibility for the individual safety of the pilot as
>"policy". We
> > were taking on the concept of "policing" so much gear, while having a
>policy
> > that implied we, the org, were going to somehow insure your personal and
> > individual safety!!?! So after the first year of "RPA", the policy was
> > changed, after taking it to the board of directors for debate, to this:
> >
> > All safety equipment optional, but recommended, except:
> > - Parachutes would follow the then current FAA FAR 91 regulations
>concerning
> > aerobatics and dual seat aircraft. This was due to the practice of
>flying
> > extended trail that met aerobatic flight parameters.
> > - Shoes that enclosed the foot (more for you stubbing your toe at the
>crud
> > game )
> > - Aircraft must have cockpit to cockpit communication capability and
>backseat
> > must have transmit/recieve capability
> >
> > The following year, the backseat instrumentation policy, another one
>that
> > caused issues for members (it's not uncommon that if you had a light or
> > instrument go out in the front cockpit, until you could get a
>replacement, you
> > would swap it for its identical instrument in the back, sincet he
>aircraft was
> > "PIC from the front" , it may thus be legal to fly in such a condition),
>was
> > changed to "line up" with the FAA Regs, the idea being, if your aircraft
>POH,
> > or other procedural guide (emergency checklist), or regulatory guidance
> > required an instrument in the backseat, then it needed to be there or
> > appropriately removed/marked inoperative IAW FAA guidelines (btw, when I
>was
> > pitching this change to the board of directors, Mike Filucci provided me
>the
> > FAA wording on "marking inoperative instruments" which I then included
>in the
> > written guidance and you can still find the FAA policy there I believe).
> >
> > However, and this was, in my opinion, critical to the policy change: in
>all
> > cases, the policy highly recommended you keep your aircraft in excellent
> > working order including all instruments, and left the RPA backseat
>instructor
> > as the final say on whether he or she would fly in your aircraft - they
>are
> > the "boots on the ground" and the ones hangin their butts out, if they
>say no
> > cause your backseat generator light is out, RPA policy supported them
>100%, on
> > the other hand, if they were willing to fly in the back pit with an
> > inoperative rear CHT and ask you to call it out when you should be
>checking it
> > anyways (hint: teaching good formation habits), the policy supported
>that
> > decision as well..., and we provided some guidance on what instruments
>should
> > definetly be working in that backseat to facilitate instruction and
>safety,
> > such as altitude, airspeed, oil temp, etc.
> >
> > ..all this was on the website and communicated through ecoms over the
>years. I
> > just put this policy information on the new "wingmans course page" which
>is
> > the master formation link on the home page, so its easy to find (same
>place as
> > the manual). The new folks will update it as needed.
> >
> > Get it? In all cases your individual safety became more your
>responsibility
> > and decision, and less the orgs,but the policy shifted to meeting
>whatever
> > laws/regulations we fell under as a group while promoting good judgment
>and
> > safe operating practices and equipment. I still believe this is the
>best
> > approach for the org...as I will say in this post, you can write
> > admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org> to get to Darrell
>and the
> > org to voice your opinion directly!
> >
> > Why flight suits were retained in the RPA, but nomex gloves were
>not?....
> >
> > While most indivudual safety gear was moved to "highly recommended". the
>wear
> > of a flight suit was retained because in all honesty, I felt (and the
>then BoD
> > approved the decision) that that one piece of equipment served multiple
> > purposes and was in the best interest of the organization as a whole,
>and thus
> > would serve the membership / aircraft owners individually (although you
>may
> > not see the value). Oh, this is going to spin a few people up. Wearing
>of
> > nomex as some of you have recounted, can save skin in a mishap - With
>that
> > concept aside, the flight suit itself (generally green, but humans love
>free
> > will and some showed up as desert warriors and a few blacks and blues
>along
> > the way, and yes, some were none nomex knock offs) also was one small
>part
> > (among many) that helped alter the perception of "those pilots flying
>that
> > chinese and russian imported crap" by those who observed this growing
> > organization, which helps everyone from aircraft/parts sales to owners
>and
> > airshow formation flyers. I once went in to the Long Beach FSDO to hack
>it
> > out with the FAA Officer in 2001 who was rewriting all regional ops
>limits and
> > making them unfairly restrictive, including mine! (he later kicked off
>my
> > mechanics L-29s from my airport), he said, "I saw you guys a few years
>ago on
> > the ramp, leaking oil - I don't want those aircraft dropping their parts
>over
> > populated areas of this city (greater LA)". I heard this kind of
>perception
> > from other members around the country. Btw, RPA member Ron Lee, now
>treasurer,
> > finally won the day with this FSDO by working with EAA legal. In the
>warbird
> > community we also in 2002 were just emerging from the small kid onthe
> > block/ugly step child. So from the website (virtual face of the org) to
>new
> > patches, new logo, regionalized events, flying a four foot RPA flag 30
>ft over
> > oshkosh and SnF (high on top of Dave McGirts RV) to a uniform that
>expressed
> > professionalism as well as provided some safety to our members, the over
>all
> > goal was to increase the qualitative perception of chinese and eastern
> > european/russian imported equipment and the north american pilots who
>flew
> > them. I also strongly felt, and many agreed, that pilots in flight
>suits who
> > assembled for the brief had their game face on and thus "head in the
>game" -
> > the very perception of the commonly clad aviator promoted the teamwork
>that is
> > vital to this organization and its prinicipal activities. Civil
>formation all
> > too commonly had/has this air of "lets just go out and wing it", the
>T-34
> > manual, quoted for so long as the mother manual of civil formation,
>propagated
> > this concept in a way, as it purposely provided scant detail, leaving
>the
> > majority of formation knowledge to word of mouth and the luck of finding
>a
> > knowledgable and experienced formation instructor. We still want you to
>have
> > that opportunity, but the new manual puts the knowledge in your hands
>first
> > and foremost, before you fly with that instructor (novel concept: read
>it
> > before you fly and come prepared).
> >
> > So now, if your reading this, if the flight suit issue kept you from
> > participating in your regional organizational formation clinics/fly-ins
>over
> > the years, please email the organization at admin@fflyredstar.org
> > <mailto:admin@fflyredstar.org> , no need to go in to a long argument,
>the
> > organization knows all sides, simply state: "the mandatory wear of a
>flight
> > suit keeps me from flying in RPA event - Iam/am not a member"
> >
> > The old YPA org policy and later RPA policy was published in the
>formation
> > manual itself (and online), the new manual is geared for your everday
>flying,
> > so it no longer is an org policy statement, here it is from the new
>manual
> > -notice the word "recommended",
> >
> > 1.5.1.1 Safety Equipment:
> >
> > The list below is the recommended equipment for conducting
> >
> > formation flight. Although these items are mentioned
> >
> > for your safety, those marked with * are required items to
> >
> > receive in-flight instruction.
> >
> > Nomex/fi re retardant fl ight suit
> >
> > Protective footwear
> >
> > Protective gloves
> >
> > Current parachute
> >
> > Helmet
> >
> > Intercom system for two seat aircraft*
> >
> > Instructor able to transmit outside the aircraft*
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is the current "BoD Approved" policy statment from the "FAST HQ"
>page
> > online at flyredstar:
> >
> >
> >
> > "A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
> > formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
>policy
> > with their Wingmen"
> >
> >
> >
> > While other online statments push "nomex flight suits" the wording
> > specifically did not. Another intersting note: At ARS in 2006 I asked a
>group
> > of members/attendees if they objected or would like the policy changed,
>it was
> > an open forum, they bitched about other issues raised, but for the
>flight suit
> > policy, it was very clear; they wanted it retained and believed it was
>the
> > right thing for the org.
> >
> > Hope this helps, again, to reach Darrell and the Org, write directly to
> > admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
> >
> > Drew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
"I jam a cold bottle of water between the side bulkhead and the flap
handle. The knob on the handle holds it in place well as long as the flap
handle is in the up position. It won't come out even with negative g."
This scares me to death. Please Please Please don't do acro with anything in the
cockpit not bolted down or zipped in a pocket. It will be there under negative
G until it isn't and the isn't could put you in a world of hurt. I know
2 people who jumped out of a perfectly good plane because of FOD and another who
was almost killed doing a simple loop because of a fuel strainer that came
out of the pocket and lodged in the elevator. We watched him pull out of a 60
degree dive at about 100 feet when he started up at 2000. If it is not secured
it has a very real chance of coming dislodged no matter how secure it may seem
or has seemed in the past. Unfortunately too many accidents have proven that
fact over the years.
Very interesting conversation regarding Flight suits... Heated topics since my
first post!
-j
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143528#143528
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
On Nov 2, 2007, at 6:10 PM, Craig Winkelmann, CFI wrote:
> 2. Flight Suit - Yep, this ain't the Bonanza Club, we wear flight
> suits for a lot of reasons, safety,
Well, we have already determined that Nomex provides little
protection from fire but increases the risk of hyperthermia so it
appears that safety is not a particularly good reason to wear Nomex.
> FOD receptacle,
Yes, this is useful.
> standardization,
Huh. I thought that the procedures manual ensured this. It's the
suit? OK.
> public awareness,
"Daddy, daddy! Look at the men in the funny green suits!" There was
once a time when I cut a dashing figure in Nomex. Not anymore. I am
more likely to hear, "daddy, is that man going to have a baby like
mommy?" Sorry but I just can't fake it anymore with the poopy suit on.
> respect.
Huh. I always thought respect had to be earned on the basis of
knowing your airplane inside and out, flying it better than anyone
else (or at least trying to), and then helping others to reach that
pinnacle. But hell, if all it takes is a $90 nomex suit ... well,
count me in!
> Nomex or other fire retardant material is your call, but a cheap
> investment to help save your skin when getting out of a burning
> aircraft.
If it really provided me more protection then I would go along with it.
I just have two beefs with it:
1. it is my airplane and this being a country of self-determination,
I should get to wear what I want to in my own aircraft, even at an
RPA event;
2. I think it detracts from safety as hyperthermia is a much greater
risk than fire in the cockpit.
Well, it's been interesting.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 27
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| Subject: | Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
Mounting the remote mounted magnetometer did not solve the DG issue?
Talk to Stu Mosby, he has the Blue Mountain in his 52.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McGirt
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ
Based on real world experience, what would you say is the BEST ( not
cheapest ) EFIS for a Yak / CJ
I have been using a Dynon D10A for sometime, and like it, but I am curious
of the over all consensus, and would really like to have a DG that is worth
a damn, so I am thinking about moving up or something.. But it has to fit
in the panel - ie - in an existing hole...
Looking at:
Dynon 10A
Blue Mountain Lite G4
Aspen Avionics Pilot PFD
On 11/2/07 10:26 AM, "Drew" <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
What? I thought I would get my yak list summation and it would be full
formation training posts - not flight suits again!
So here it is folks; What really was the idea behind all this and why...
Btw, a yak post someone sent yesterday gives a clue to it all
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"">Do I have to wear a parachute when flying at RPA events?
RPA Policy: Only if you are conducting formation training with a backseat
instructor (or occupant), in this case you must have a parachute for
both seats with current repack as directed by Federal Aviation
Regulations concerning aerobatics.
That is exactly what the FARS specify. I want to make clear that this
is a change. Before now, if you were receiving instruction of any type,
... Say I was flying wingman with another aircraft, RPA rules were that
I MUST be wearing a parachute, regardless if I was by myself in a two
seat aircraft, or by myself in a ONE seat aircraft. So this then is new
official policy then correct? GREAT! ""
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, new as of 2002/3, read on...
When we started in 2001/2, the org (then called YPA) had a long list of
[implied] mandatory gear for flying formation, nomex flight suits & gloves,
boots, helmet, parachutes, ability of the backseat to transmit and crew
intercom (front and back seat communication), all working instruments in
both cockpits. Ugg, I could just see being on the phone with a dead pilots
wife, screaming at me why "your policy was for parachutes and you didn't
stop my husband from flying without a parachute" and then filing a lawsuit
against the org and the poor event organizer. Then asking the organizer of
the event, how did this guy strap in without a parachute!?!, Didn't the lead
or someone police them strapping in (see the insane logic here?)
I heard all the arguments and found, in my opinion, that the org was taking
too much responsibility for the individual safety of the pilot as "policy".
We were taking on the concept of "policing" so much gear, while having a
policy that implied we, the org, were going to somehow insure your personal
and individual safety!!?! So after the first year of "RPA", the policy was
changed, after taking it to the board of directors for debate, to this:
All safety equipment optional, but recommended, except:
- Parachutes would follow the then current FAA FAR 91 regulations concerning
aerobatics and dual seat aircraft. This was due to the practice of flying
extended trail that met aerobatic flight parameters.
- Shoes that enclosed the foot (more for you stubbing your toe at the crud
game )
- Aircraft must have cockpit to cockpit communication capability and
backseat must have transmit/recieve capability
The following year, the backseat instrumentation policy, another one that
caused issues for members (it's not uncommon that if you had a light or
instrument go out in the front cockpit, until you could get a replacement,
you would swap it for its identical instrument in the back, sincet he
aircraft was "PIC from the front" , it may thus be legal to fly in such a
condition), was changed to "line up" with the FAA Regs, the idea being, if
your aircraft POH, or other procedural guide (emergency checklist), or
regulatory guidance required an instrument in the backseat, then it needed
to be there or appropriately removed/marked inoperative IAW FAA guidelines
(btw, when I was pitching this change to the board of directors, Mike
Filucci provided me the FAA wording on "marking inoperative instruments"
which I then included in the written guidance and you can still find the FAA
policy there I believe).
However, and this was, in my opinion, critical to the policy change: in all
cases, the policy highly recommended you keep your aircraft in excellent
working order including all instruments, and left the RPA backseat
instructor as the final say on whether he or she would fly in your aircraft
- they are the "boots on the ground" and the ones hangin their butts out, if
they say no cause your backseat generator light is out, RPA policy supported
them 100%, on the other hand, if they were willing to fly in the back pit
with an inoperative rear CHT and ask you to call it out when you should be
checking it anyways (hint: teaching good formation habits), the policy
supported that decision as well..., and we provided some guidance on what
instruments should definetly be working in that backseat to facilitate
instruction and safety, such as altitude, airspeed, oil temp, etc.
..all this was on the website and communicated through ecoms over the years.
I just put this policy information on the new "wingmans course page" which
is the master formation link on the home page, so its easy to find (same
place as the manual). The new folks will update it as needed.
Get it? In all cases your individual safety became more your responsibility
and decision, and less the orgs,but the policy shifted to meeting whatever
laws/regulations we fell under as a group while promoting good judgment and
safe operating practices and equipment. I still believe this is the best
approach for the org...as I will say in this post, you can write
admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
<mailto:admin@flyredstar.org> to get to Darrell and the org to voice your
opinion directly!
Why flight suits were retained in the RPA, but nomex gloves were not?....
While most indivudual safety gear was moved to "highly recommended". the
wear of a flight suit was retained because in all honesty, I felt (and the
then BoD approved the decision) that that one piece of equipment served
multiple purposes and was in the best interest of the organization as a
whole, and thus would serve the membership / aircraft owners individually
(although you may not see the value). Oh, this is going to spin a few people
up. Wearing of nomex as some of you have recounted, can save skin in a
mishap - With that concept aside, the flight suit itself (generally green,
but humans love free will and some showed up as desert warriors and a few
blacks and blues along the way, and yes, some were none nomex knock offs)
also was one small part (among many) that helped alter the perception of
"those pilots flying that chinese and russian imported crap" by those who
observed this growing organization, which helps everyone from aircraft/parts
sales to owners and airshow formation flyers. I once went in to the Long
Beach FSDO to hack it out with the FAA Officer in 2001 who was rewriting all
regional ops limits and making them unfairly restrictive, including mine!
(he later kicked off my mechanics L-29s from my airport), he said, "I saw
you guys a few years ago on the ramp, leaking oil - I don't want those
aircraft dropping their parts over populated areas of this city (greater
LA)". I heard this kind of perception from other members around the
country. Btw, RPA member Ron Lee, now treasurer, finally won the day with
this FSDO by working with EAA legal. In the warbird community we also in
2002 were just emerging from the small kid onthe block/ugly step child. So
from the website (virtual face of the org) to new patches, new logo,
regionalized events, flying a four foot RPA flag 30 ft over oshkosh and SnF
(high on top of Dave McGirts RV) to a uniform that expressed professionalism
as well as provided some safety to our members, the over all goal was to
increase the qualitative perception of chinese and eastern european/russian
imported equipment and the north american pilots who flew them. I also
strongly felt, and many agreed, that pilots in flight suits who assembled
for the brief had their game face on and thus "head in the game" - the very
perception of the commonly clad aviator promoted the teamwork that is vital
to this organization and its prinicipal activities. Civil formation all too
commonly had/has this air of "lets just go out and wing it", the T-34
manual, quoted for so long as the mother manual of civil formation,
propagated this concept in a way, as it purposely provided scant detail,
leaving the majority of formation knowledge to word of mouth and the luck of
finding a knowledgable and experienced formation instructor. We still want
you to have that opportunity, but the new manual puts the knowledge in your
hands first and foremost, before you fly with that instructor (novel
concept: read it before you fly and come prepared).
So now, if your reading this, if the flight suit issue kept you from
participating in your regional organizational formation clinics/fly-ins over
the years, please email the organization at admin@fflyredstar.org
<mailto:admin@fflyredstar.org> <mailto:admin@fflyredstar.org> , no need to
go in to a long argument, the organization knows all sides, simply state:
"the mandatory wear of a flight suit keeps me from flying in RPA event -
Iam/am not a member"
The old YPA org policy and later RPA policy was published in the formation
manual itself (and online), the new manual is geared for your everday
flying, so it no longer is an org policy statement, here it is from the new
manual -notice the word "recommended",
1.5.1.1 Safety Equipment:
The list below is the recommended equipment for conducting
formation flight. Although these items are mentioned
for your safety, those marked with * are required items to
receive in-flight instruction.
Nomex/fi re retardant fl ight suit
Protective footwear
Protective gloves
Current parachute
Helmet
Intercom system for two seat aircraft*
Instructor able to transmit outside the aircraft*
Here is the current "BoD Approved" policy statment from the "FAST HQ" page
online at flyredstar:
"A Flight Suit will be worn by the pilots flying in a training/display
formation sortie at RPA events/clinics. Flight Leads will enforce this
policy with their Wingmen"
While other online statments push "nomex flight suits" the wording
specifically did not. Another intersting note: At ARS in 2006 I asked a
group of members/attendees if they objected or would like the policy
changed, it was an open forum, they bitched about other issues raised, but
for the flight suit policy, it was very clear; they wanted it retained and
believed it was the right thing for the org.
Hope this helps, again, to reach Darrell and the Org, write directly to
admin@flyredstar.org <mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
<mailto:admin@flyredstar.org>
Drew
ail Forum -
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
; - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
matronics.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | VPCI-415 Heavy Duty Degreaser |
Hydrogen Embrittlement. Google it and do your research. Coast Guard
has principally steel hulled ships. The fast pursuit craft are a
magnesium variant on aluminum. The new Aircraft Simple Green is
aviation aluminum tolerant.
The DOD is up to speed on hydrogen Embrittlement of fasteners and their
premature fractures. No chemist, I just play an airline mechanic by
night and an IA on the weekends.
You are right in that it is about hydrogen atoms and needs a chemist.
Also Google faying action on aluminum skin overlap areas.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann, CFI
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: Yak-List: VPCI-415 Heavy Duty Degreaser
<capav8r@gmail.com>
Has anybody heard of this stuff? Aircraft Spruce just started selling
it. I don't get it. It says it is alkaline (pH 8.0 to 8.7). Other
alkaline cleaners (Original Simple Green) are not recommended for
aluminum. However, this product is claimed to be used by the Coast
Guard in salty environments due to its anti-corrosion properties.
Any chemists (amateur or professional) want to comment!!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143514#143514
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