Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - Re: Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (Jorgen Nielsen)
2. 08:17 AM - Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (GreasySideUp)
3. 09:40 AM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (captaindonhopkin@aol.com)
4. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (david@mcgirt.net)
5. 01:22 PM - Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP (David McGirt)
6. 01:52 PM - Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (DaBear)
7. 02:14 PM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (shinden33)
8. 03:46 PM - Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (Craig Payne)
9. 05:32 PM - Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (Tim Gagnon)
10. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (viperdoc)
11. 06:35 PM - Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
12. 06:42 PM - Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
13. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ (Shinden33)
14. 09:00 PM - Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Ron Davis)
15. 09:08 PM - Last day of the tour & nomex (cjpilot710@aol.com)
16. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Ron Davis)
17. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: Log book translation (Ron Davis)
18. 09:43 PM - Re: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety (Ron Davis)
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| Subject: | Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
Hi Scott
Can you post any pics?
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shinden33
Sent: 03 November 2007 03:42 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ
David,
I have a Blue Mountain EFIS Lite G4 in my -52. I don't have experience with
any other system but I love the BM. I bought it specifically for IFR (yes
IFR in an Yak-52 - stop laughing). The EHSI works very well and the built
in VFR GPS with terrain is very useful. This is not to mention the ADI
which can be coupled with the GPS to give you course information. I will
say that I had a few problems getting it dialed in (bad gyro and calibration
errors) for which I had to send the unit back to the factory. They were
always very helpful and fixed every problem with no issues. The EFIS Lite/
Lite+ and Sport all fit in a standard 3 1/8" instrument hole. I slightly
modify an AN type reducer to mount the BM EFIS in the hole for the Russian
attitude indicator with no panel modifications. The BM also has a lot of
nifty gadgets and algorithms, feel free to drop me a line off post and I can
give you more details.
Best Regards
Scott
N8252
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143522#143522
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| Subject: | Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
I am looking at Yak 50's but would love input from 52/55 and Chang owners as well
- I assume costs will be similar.
I'm sitting down this weekend to get a no kidding gnats behind assessment for what
this thing is going to cost me, do any of you mind sharing your no kidding
expenses down to the smallest thing I'm not thinking of.
In addition what are the best loan and insurance rates you have and who are they
through. How much are your typical annuals really costing, what do you do for
oil changes (How often, how much oil do these even hold) etc. Also curious
about engine and misc mx funds. This will be my first aircraft, I would rather
over budget than under budget - it will be much easier giving money back to
my wife at the end of the year than asking for more;) Probably looking at 10-15hrs/month
until the initial fun wears off then 5 after that. Not much at all
during the winter.
Expenses I'm looking at
Loan
Hanger
annual
insurance
misc mx
fuel
oil
Anything I'm missing?
Thanks,
-j
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143586#143586
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| Subject: | RE: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
David,
I installed a Blue Mountain EFIS in my Yak 52 to help me keep up my IFR skills.?
I ordered the G4 Lite unit but after it arrived I felt is was a little too small
as a primary unit.? So in for penny in for a pound, I sent it back and ordered
the larger G4 Lite Plus unit.? Very happy with the decision.? One warning
though, I did have to modify my panel to make it fit.? It fits in the hole but
the larger width encroaches on other instruments. Looks great and does everything
I wanted it to do.
Don
Captain Don Hopkin
954-336-7402 Cell
954-667-6833 Yacht
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
Thanks for the info, can you send some pics to me, I will post them for everyone
if you like as well
-----Original Message-----
From: captaindonhopkin@aol.com
To:yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ
David,
I installed a Blue Mountain EFIS in my Yak 52 to help me keep up my IFR skills.
I ordered the G4 Lite unit but after it arrived I felt is was a little too small
as a primary unit. So in for penny in for a pound, I sent it back and ordered
the larger G4 Lite Plus unit. Very happy with the decision. One warning though,
I did have to modify my panel to make it fit. It fits in the hole but the
larger width encroaches on other instruments. Looks great and does everything
I wanted it to do.
Don
Captain Don Hopkin
954-336-7402 Cell
954-667-6833 Yacht
----------------
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| Subject: | Re: JPI EDM 700-9C in on a M14P 400HP |
Thanks, was wondering when they asked that for the order...
On 11/2/07 7:54 PM, "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2007, at 3:56 PM, David McGirt wrote:
>
>>
>> Is the unit capacitive conductor or resistive conductor
>
> It is not a fuel gauge. It is a fuel totalizer based on fuel flow.
> You insert the flow transducer in the fuel line, usually between the
> fuel pump and the carburetor. Once calibrated it tells you how much
> fuel has flowed between pump and carb as well as fuel burn rate.
>
> Just beware that it does not know how much fuel is in the tanks. You
> still need your fuel level gauges.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
My first response would be.... You really don't want to know.
But here is a quick look at an average I've paid over the last 500 hours
on my CJ: (Note M14P engine and 3 bladed Prop)
Notes
Fixed Costs
Month Year
Hanger
400 4,800 Depends on area ($300-$600)
Annual
3,500 First Annual WILL be higher
Insurance
3,000 Depends on time and hull ($2,600-$3,800)
VA Tax
500 Virginia Annual Property Tax
Parachute Repack twice year
240 2 Chutes $60 each for repack
12,040
Aprox Costs
Fuel/Gal
4.25
Oil/Liter
3.10
($580 for 55 Gal Drum of 25W60)
Oil Filter
10.00
(Highly Recommend Oil Filter system)
Air System Filter
7.00
(Get refurb kit from Doug)
Hourly Costs
Hour
Fuel @ 14Gal/Hour
59.50
(Cruise 11.5 Gal/Hour to Acro 18Gal/Hour)
Oil @ 1.5 liter/hour
4.65
Air Sys Filter/20 hours
0.35
Oil Change every 50 hours
1.25
(Doesn't include MMO, don't ask :-) )
17 Liter of Oil 52.70
Oil Filter 10.00
62.70
Engine Replacement 20,000.00 13.33
1500 hour replacement 1500
Prop Replacement 11,000.00 7.33
1500 Hour replacement 1500
Nose & Main Gear Actuators 450.00 0.90
Flap Actuators 250 0.50
Replace 500 hours 500
Hourly Costs
87.82
Fixed Costs/Hour@ 75 Hours Year
160.5333
Fixed & Hourly/Hour
248.35
Fixed Costs/Hour @ 100 Hours Year
120.4
Fixed & Hourly/Hour
208.22
Fixed Costs/Hour@ 125 Hours Year
96.32
Fixed & Hourly/Hour
184.14
This is on the high end I believe and doesn't include things that
break. I'd like to know what others are paying for annuals. I'd also
like to know how this compares to other owners.
Dabear
Note: Didn't include cost of flight suits, annual donation to Yak List,
or RPA membership.
GreasySideUp wrote:
>
> I am looking at Yak 50's but would love input from 52/55 and Chang owners as
well - I assume costs will be similar.
>
> I'm sitting down this weekend to get a no kidding gnats behind assessment for
what this thing is going to cost me, do any of you mind sharing your no kidding
expenses down to the smallest thing I'm not thinking of.
>
> In addition what are the best loan and insurance rates you have and who are they
through. How much are your typical annuals really costing, what do you do
for oil changes (How often, how much oil do these even hold) etc. Also curious
about engine and misc mx funds. This will be my first aircraft, I would rather
over budget than under budget - it will be much easier giving money back
to my wife at the end of the year than asking for more;) Probably looking at
10-15hrs/month until the initial fun wears off then 5 after that. Not much at
all during the winter.
>
> Expenses I'm looking at
>
> Loan
> Hanger
> annual
> insurance
> misc mx
> fuel
> oil
>
> Anything I'm missing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -j
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
Here are a couple of pictures. You'll notice the magnetometer mounting bracket
also has a VOR antenna mounted to the bottom of it. The set up makes for a very
crowded tail but has worked well thus far. Excuse the shameless plug but
I offer a couple of the parts as kits on my website. Feel free to give it a look
at
www.thedefiantcompany.com.
Scott
N8252
--------
The Defiant Company
www.thedefiantcompany.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143619#143619
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| Subject: | Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
Answer: Depends... I kinda know but if I took the trouble to add it up, I'd trade
for an RV or something like that. If you hold a Commercial or better, some
of your expenses are covered by airshows where you can have a good time. My annual
inspection costs $150, parts about $1,000, labor is mine, hanger $300/mo,
insurance is under $2K but then I'm over 1000 hours in type.
Like lots of other guys, I fly other peoples airplanes too, and get paid a meager
sum but don't have nearly as much fun as having a Yak/CJ.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
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| Subject: | Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
Josh,
Find a good mechanic and work with him on annuals and any MX that pops up. You
will learn more about the airplane and save some bucks too. My mechanic does not
mind me being involved and has taught me a lot about general maintenance. Plus,
a friend has been a wealth of info due to him having a -52. These boards
of been great as well. Maintenance is cheap insurance! My airplane had suffered
some neglect over the years and I have paid for that. Now, things are MUCH better
than they EVER were in the past. Simple maintenance has been the key to
this airplanes health. I have a few issues to clean up but for the most part,
things are good. You may do two oil changes a year...I fly my airplane less than
50 hours a year. I bought a 55 gallon drum of oil (yeah..you may need one)
and pay about $1.50 a quart. Parts for the -50 can bet a bit of a challenge so
if you replace something, keep what broke! I have a few spares...
Insurance: talk to Tom Johnson at airpower insurance. He has a -50 and is a great
friend to the owners of these airplanes. He to has been helpful troubleshooting
issues.
I cannot attest to the cost of the airplanes but I would guess they would be a
bit more because of more complex systems, flaps....ect. These are not the Cessna's
at the flying school...they take more care but they return a billion times
more than a Cessna ever could.
Fuel is always a variable. I am working a deal where I "hedge" fuel with the FBO.
Keeps my cost known for a while at least.
Buy right the first time and you will avoid a lot of problems...trust me! It took
me awhile but I have a good airplane that I am not worried about tossing around
the sky. I made some monumental errors when I bought mine. I bought more
on emotion than sense... I asked a lot of the right questions and got some less
than....well.....lets just say a lot of things were not as advertised. Lots
of lessons learned.
As for the per hour cost, it certainly depends on hours flown but I can assure
you, it is not cheap but what in aviation is?
Lastly, the -50 is a wonderful airplane and I cannot think of a single person who
has either flown one or owned one that will not echo that statement. It combines
fantastic capabilities with a little bit of a warbird feel. It is shit hot
form airplane and can hold its own in a bit of good natured jousting. It has
an awesome ramp presence and anyone who tells you that that does not matter
is full of shit! (I bet you roll into an airport in your Viper and if you are
the only one on the ramp, you feel pretty cool....be honest!) The -50 is the same.
One more thing...there are very few of these airplanes left in the world. I think
there are more Spitfires flying than Yak-50's. Know what you are buying and
know what you will have. Cherish it and keep it healthy. Be proud to own it and
revel in the fact that you own a f'ing rocking airplane! You will be the custodian
of one of Yaks best models. I sometimes feel as though I rescued my airplane
from a life it did not deserve. If the previous owner wants it back, he
can have it for TWICE what I paid him for it.
Josh, you still have my number, feel free to call any time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143639#143639
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| Subject: | Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
You would not sell her! You would give up you right testicle first! Admit
it!
Josh, he is dead on about the 50. Disadvantage, you cannot take anyone up
with you go play but then again....
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you?
Josh,
Find a good mechanic and work with him on annuals and any MX that pops up.
You will learn more about the airplane and save some bucks too. My mechanic
does not mind me being involved and has taught me a lot about general
maintenance. Plus, a friend has been a wealth of info due to him having a
-52. These boards of been great as well. Maintenance is cheap insurance! My
airplane had suffered some neglect over the years and I have paid for that.
Now, things are MUCH better than they EVER were in the past. Simple
maintenance has been the key to this airplanes health. I have a few issues
to clean up but for the most part, things are good. You may do two oil
changes a year...I fly my airplane less than 50 hours a year. I bought a 55
gallon drum of oil (yeah..you may need one) and pay about $1.50 a quart.
Parts for the -50 can bet a bit of a challenge so if you replace something,
keep what broke! I have a few spares...
Insurance: talk to Tom Johnson at airpower insurance. He has a -50 and is a
great friend to the owners of these airplanes. He to has been helpful
troubleshooting issues.
I cannot attest to the cost of the airplanes but I would guess they would be
a bit more because of more complex systems, flaps....ect. These are not the
Cessna's at the flying school...they take more care but they return a
billion times more than a Cessna ever could.
Fuel is always a variable. I am working a deal where I "hedge" fuel with the
FBO. Keeps my cost known for a while at least.
Buy right the first time and you will avoid a lot of problems...trust me! It
took me awhile but I have a good airplane that I am not worried about
tossing around the sky. I made some monumental errors when I bought mine. I
bought more on emotion than sense... I asked a lot of the right questions
and got some less than....well.....lets just say a lot of things were not as
advertised. Lots of lessons learned.
As for the per hour cost, it certainly depends on hours flown but I can
assure you, it is not cheap but what in aviation is?
Lastly, the -50 is a wonderful airplane and I cannot think of a single
person who has either flown one or owned one that will not echo that
statement. It combines fantastic capabilities with a little bit of a warbird
feel. It is shit hot form airplane and can hold its own in a bit of good
natured jousting. It has an awesome ramp presence and anyone who tells you
that that does not matter is full of shit! (I bet you roll into an airport
in your Viper and if you are the only one on the ramp, you feel pretty
cool....be honest!) The -50 is the same.
One more thing...there are very few of these airplanes left in the world. I
think there are more Spitfires flying than Yak-50's. Know what you are
buying and know what you will have. Cherish it and keep it healthy. Be proud
to own it and revel in the fact that you own a f'ing rocking airplane! You
will be the custodian of one of Yaks best models. I sometimes feel as though
I rescued my airplane from a life it did not deserve. If the previous owner
wants it back, he can have it for TWICE what I paid him for it.
Josh, you still have my number, feel free to call any time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143639#143639
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| Subject: | Re: Price of Ownership What does it cost you? |
I did a rough cost estimate taking into account fixed and variable expenses when
I decided to purchase a CJ. At 100 hours per year, I estimated $162 per hour.
My CJ has the stock 285 engine and hangars here are $500 to $600 per month.
There is no financing so no interest. This might actually be a bit on the low
side but it was close enough.
This compares to the local rental rate for a Cessna 182 with G-1000 equipment ($165).
What would you rather fly?? I bought the CJ!!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143650#143650
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| Subject: | Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
I personally like the BMA EFIS/Sport. It would likely requires a new panel to
be built but it will give you a ton of capability. You'd have to see if it will
fit in a 52. BMA does have the EFIS Two as well. Both of these units give
you nice IFR capability, moving map, and you can add engine monitoring.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143651#143651
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| Subject: | Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ |
I was looking at the EFIS Sport and based in the website information it
looked to me like if you removed the RMI and the ADI the EFIS would fit in
the hole for the RMI. I never had a chance to test that theory though.
S
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 6:42 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Best EFIS in a Yak/CJ
> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>
> I personally like the BMA EFIS/Sport. It would likely requires a new
> panel to be built but it will give you a ton of capability. You'd have to
> see if it will fit in a 52. BMA does have the EFIS Two as well. Both of
> these units give you nice IFR capability, moving map, and you can add
> engine monitoring.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143651#143651
>
>
>
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| Subject: | FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
Craig,
Your e-mail got cut off after you mentioned "the FARs" and before you quote
d it. Seems to happen a lot, people quote FARs they've never read. For th
e record 91.307 (c) says "
(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft
is wearing an approved parachute,
no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any
person (other than a crewmember) may
execute any intentional maneuver that
exceeds=97
(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to
the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude
of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
so that means 1) you are never required by the feds to wear a chute when fl
ying alone, and 2) neither person is required to wear a chute if both are "
required crewmembers". It sounds like the feds think the required crewmemb
ers are capable of making their own decisions on the merits of safety equip
ment. If only the feds had the wisdom of FAST... Did that sound cynical?
It was supposed to.
tronics.comSubject: Yak-List: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety
I have read the jabs at FAST posted here. I am new to formation flight and
the RPA. I have had the distinct opportunity to fly with Drew Blahnick an
d proofread the new RPA formation manual. I also helped provide the studen
t perspective as I was learning formation while proofreading the documents.
Flying has some inherent risks to it. Formation flying adds to those risks
. Drew has spent countless hours writing and rewriting the manual. He has
used manuals from the Air Force, Navy, former formation manuals, etc, etc
to draft the new version. It is an excellent work. The chapter on tactica
l formation is in the works.
FAST was a way to increase the safety of formation flight for members of th
e signatories, of which the RPA is one. As a CFI, I try to make sure that
my students are safe. FAST is doing the same for those who wish to fly in
formation. Can you go learn formation from a former military pilot or some
one who knows formation flight and never crack open a FAST document. Sure.
But why would you? How do you know, for instance, if the hand and aircr
aft signals you learn are the same ones someone else knows? What about rec
ommended takeoff and landing intervals? FAST standardized all this so that
the folks flying T-6s, T-28s, P-51s, Yak-52s, CJs, L-39s, L-29, etc, etc a
ll learn formation flight in a similar fashion. This increases the safety
of the learning process and formation flight. Watch any Heritage Flight at
an airshow and you'll see why this is important.
Additionally, if you don't want to wear a chute or nomex that is fine. All
FAST is saying is that for events where FAST rules apply, you must follow
FAST guidelines. As far as chutes are concerned, remember there is a FAR s
pecifying when one is to be worn. Some aspects of formation flight may ven
ture into areas where the bank or pitch attitude of your aircraft will requ
ire you to wear one. Are you less safe without a chute and not wearing nom
ex? I think you are. But it is your life and your skin. You decide. You
want to break FARs, your choice.
All we need to do is keep bending aluminum and the FAA will start taking a
look at the safety of warbird operation and could place restrictions on for
mation flight. Then we all lose.
Go read the new manual. Keep an open mind. I know for a fact that it was
written with the key concept of safety of the pilots and our aircraft in mi
nd.
Fly often, stay safe,
Craig Winkelmann, CFI
Nanchang CJ-6
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Last day of the tour & nomex |
Well I flew the last ride of the season on the B-24 here at St. Augustine.
The air was smooth and CAVU. I let the co-pilot make his first takeoff and
landing and he did well. Tomorrow we set course south to New Smyna where
airplanes will be for the next 2 mouths going though heavy maintenance at
American Aero. The B-24 is due for an engine change (#3) and a change to P2V
brakes. Their parts are more really availible. Also she will have new fuel tanks
installed.
Me and my CJ are going to spend some time together. I plan on adding MX
weather to my AvMap GPS. Than I'll add a audio panel and a "plug and Play"
wiring box, that will simplify the wiring behind the panel. Than I'll be putting
an autopilot in. Nothing fancy, just a heading and GPS course, wing
leveler. Altitude hold will come much later. Some touch-up painting.
Than I've been working of a super secret speed enhancement project that will
bring me millions from the CJ pilots of America. :)))
It does not matter to get up set about the nomex issue. It would not matter
one iota to the dissenters, if 75% members voted to wear them. They would
not ever accept it. It does not matter that guys with the same back grounds,
experiences, and smarts as they, made those decisions with the best of
intention for those with far less experience. And even those decisions were a
compromise from far more "restrictions". They never really want to be part of
the sprite-de-corp because they consider it juvenile. One simply need read
the bemeaning statements they make about how some folks look in "bags". I
often wonder if they ever made those same view about nomex to their CO's or to
their corp while they played the game.
And now I hit the sack. Tomorrow I get to play with the B-24 one last time
for a while. Than I get to play with my CJ. Thus continues the game of life
- "bags" and all. :)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
You make good points. The debate is not about whether whether safety equip
ment is useful. The debate is about whether I should mandate that you wear
equipment that can't possibly affect my safety or mind my own busines. I
believe I should mind my own business.
Do you think helmets and nomex suits save lives if all occupants of cars we
re required to wear them? Of course they would. Should they be required?
I don't think so.
As for the value of nomex- It works great if you have people there to put o
ut the fire and pull you out in 10-20 seconds like Nascar has. It's far le
ss useful if CAP shows a few days or weeks after the crash.> From: jorgen.n
ielsen@mweb.co.za> To: yak-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: F
AST, Formation Flight, Safety> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 23:06:49 +0200> > -->
Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>> >
Interesting debate. Some thoughts...> > When evaluating risk / threat / li
kelihood, one should also consider the> likelihood of needing that nomex es
p. in a formo training sortie. My> understanding, is that is when the wear
thereof is mandatory as per RPA.> > What I am trying to say, is how does th
e fact that one is doing formo> training going to result in a situation whe
re nomex will help? What are the> likely scenarios - will a "touch" result
in a flash fire where the suit> would be of value?> > I think some of the d
ebate is fuelled (pun intended) by the cover your ass> situation. Insurance
and lawyers come into it then. Its that question> asked in court after the
accident, "so can you confirm you were NOT wearing> any commonly accepted
safety equipment?"> > Here in SA flying ex-mil jets, our authority mandate
all safety equipment> must be in place. Both with the aircraft and pilot. A
s far as the pilot is> concerned, this means boots, nomex flightsuit and he
lmet. So the issue is> clear, if you don=92t wear these, you are breaking r
egs. On any and all> flights.> > This does not apply to other aircraft. Her
e we see a mix, some pilots wear> the flightsuits, gloves, helmets (on ever
y flight), others go in shorts /> t-shirt. This applies whether one is flyi
ng an Extra 300, Pitts, Zlin, Yak> or whatever. Those that fly the Yaks etc
tend more to the flightsuits. > > I don=92t think you will ever get agreem
ent because its subjective.> > My personal feeling is that the flightsuit i
s better, not just for fire but> also for general protection - some coverin
g is better than bare skin. If I> had jumped and was landing in trees, I wo
uld rather have a flightsuit,> gloves and boots on than trainers, shorts an
d a t-shirt. Also if you> dehydrating in the flightsuit, would you anyway n
ot also be dehydrating in> shorts, all other things being equal? I.e., does
it make such a difference?> > There are 2 fire incidents I know of - one a
n L-29 catching fire in flight> (battery) and one Yak that hit powerlines o
n landing, crashed and caught> fire. In both these occasions the nomex suit
was preferred and beneficial,> hugely so in the case of the L-29. The Yak
driver did not have one and> sustained burns which would have been less sev
ere had he worn a suit.> > Then again, I mostly fly my Yak in shorts & a T,
whether doing formo, acro> or just tooling around. Gets bl**dy hot in Pret
oria!> > Jorgen> > > > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-yak-list-s
erver@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Brian Lloyd> Sent: 01 November 2007 08:09 PM> To: yak-list@matronics.co
m> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety> > --> Yak-Lis
t message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>> > > On Nov 1, 2007
, at 5:28 AM, Craig Winkelmann, CFI wrote:> > > --> Yak-List message posted
by: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" > > <capav8r@gmail.com>> >> > Brian:> >> > Hea
t stroke...aren't you taking it a bit far?> > Well, it depends on how you d
efine heat stroke. If you want to use > that to refer to the advanced stage
s of Perhaps not all the way to > heatstroke but there are levels of hypert
hermia. I know that I have > inadvertently gone over the line from OK to ea
rly stages of > hyperthermia without knowing it ahead of time. It is only w
hen I > stepped down from the aircraft and started to walk that I realized
> how impaired I was. Remember, if you are experiencing thirst you are > al
ready dehydrated and suffering from impairment.> > > I fly all day long is
South Florida doing Civil Air Patrol Cadet > > Orientation flights in a C-1
82 wearing a Nomex suit. All I can say > > is drink lots of water and you a
re fine. Common sense.> > A C-182 is a high wing and provides protection fr
om the sun. Sitting > in a CJ or Yak and you have the full heat-load of the
sun on you. Add > to that sitting on the ground waiting to roll and you ca
n get pretty > warm. Not the same situation as the C-182. Also, while you a
re > concentrating on the mission you might not be listening to the > warni
ng bells your body is trying to send you.> > You are right that the threat
is less from hyperthermia than fire but > the *RISK* is greater because it
is *MUCH* more likely to happen. > That is the problem people run into when
getting into these > discussions. They mistake risk for threat.> > > Also,
I have read of scenarios of smoke in the cockpit. Guy slides > > the canop
y open to get rid of it and woosh...face full of fire.> > And how often doe
s that happen? I don't know of a single case of fire > in the cockpit in a
Yak or CJ. Perhaps there has been one but I am > not aware of it. Feel free
to enlighten me as to the frequency of the > occurrence. Regardless, it do
esn't seem to be much of a risk given > the infrequency of occurrence.> > O
TOH, I bet that there are several people suffering from the early > stages
of hyperthermia at every summertime afternoon training > session. They may
not realize what it is. They may just think it is > nerves, fatigue, a touc
h of nausea from the yank-n-bank, and/or > thirst. The key point is that th
ey ARE impaired and not operating as > safely as they could be. Would they
be better off if they didn't have > on a Nomex suit? Perhaps. Are they less
safe if there is a fire? > Perhaps.> > The whole point of my post is that
this is not a cut-and-dried issue. > It is possible that wearing a Nomex su
it is a greater risk to your > overall safety than not wearing one. I am of
the opinion that this > might be so (certainly in summer) but mostly I am
encouraging people > to think about the issue rather than just accepting th
at something is > so because everyone else does. All I am saying is that, i
n response > to someone saying, "wearing Nomex makes you safer," I am respo
nding, > "well, maybe not."> > I do think that having the organization dict
ate how the pilot chooses > to dress in his/her cockpit is the wrong thing
to do. (But we have > been here before and I pissed Drew off then too. :-)>
> > Wearing a kilt and your fry your testicles. Wear nomex and your > > ca
n still participate in other recreational activities!!> > Well, we know tha
t Nomex is not much protection. You even said so. > Still, I was mostly jus
t trying to inject a bit of levity into these > proceedings. There is a ten
dency to take these positions way too > seriously. Besides, the Boys like a
nice cool breeze. OTOH, I suspect > that the crotch straps from the 'chute
and harness might chafe a bit. > Hmmm, if I wore silk boxers ...> > --> Br
ian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Pa
rk, CA 95682> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)> > I fly becaus
e it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .> =97 Antoine d
e Saint-Exup=E9ry> > PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1
========================> _
=======> > >
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Log book translation |
I think you will find that the translator needs to be a pilot or mechanic.
Chinese isn't put together with a prefix, a root, and a suffix like latin
languages. It's such a flowery language that the characters will mean one
common thing to a non-pilot and something quite different to the technicall
y trained- like the idiograms for butterfly and branch together mean toggle
switch. Good luck though.> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Log book translation> F
rom: aihuabao@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 19:32:33 -0700> To: yak-list
m>> > I'm a subscriber here for a couple years, reading quietly ... focused
upon the Nanchang ...though interested, envious, of the talk among you fel
las about your airplanes.> > I'm formerly a tailhook navy puke and China ha
nd now in Asia though I do not read characters well enough to nail the tran
slations you seek. However, I am surrounded by family with university educa
tions who can do the work. > > Likely I can get log books done well and tim
ely and, it can be fun to get involved.> > Logistics: It feels easy and str
aightforward to have the logs scanned to a file and sent to me.> > A couple
questions so I can get my thought around the work: How many pages in the C
hinee logs? Howmany lines a page? This is a guess, I know, though how many
log books do you think are the "need or helpful to be translated" group?> >
I'm gone for a week or so beginning today so I will not answer any reply u
ntil week of November 12.> > best ...> > Melaka Jack> > > > > Read this top
ic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=143315#143
===============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
!
ilnews
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety |
I agree- when flying at an RPA event in Rome wear nomex. If you're in Amer
ica at an RPA event then celebrate your Americanism and tell the tyrants to
piss off. As for voting on the matter, I guess we could vote on whether e
veryone should mind their own business, but tyrants are big on voting.> Sub
ject: Yak-List: Re: FAST, Formation Flight, Safety> From: capav8r@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 05:14:52 -0700> To: yak-list@matronics.com> > --> Y
ak-List message posted by: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>> > A
ll:> > To nomex or not to nomex, that was not the question!!> > So...we hav
e two camps - those that wear nomex and those that don't. GREAT.> > When is
Rome do as the Romans. So when at an RPA event (or for me flying for CAP),
follow the guidelines. Otherwise, this is America - do what you want as lo
ng as it doesn't violate FARs.> > Isn't it GREAT to fly communist country a
irplanes in a country where we have the freedom to do what we want (within
reason).> > Now....GO READ the NEW RPA FORMATION MANUAL.> > I think we shou
ld move on to other topics......> > Enjoy the freedom of flight this weeken
d!!> > Craig> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matroni
==> > >
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