Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Looking for Yak Owner in Louisville or Indianapolis (Ira Saligman)
2. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: Find the Yak-50 in this pictureFind the Yak-50 in this picture (Ira Saligman)
3. 04:40 AM - Re: Looking for Yak Owner in Louisville or Indianapolis (Tim Gagnon)
4. 04:52 AM - Re: Flight suits, leathers and conflict resolution (Drew)
5. 05:37 AM - Automotive plugs (Chanock Richka)
6. 06:02 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Cliff Coy)
7. 06:19 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Cyrus Kissling)
8. 07:14 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (viperdoc)
9. 08:53 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Brian Lloyd)
10. 09:08 AM - Compression Test Plug (Jon Boede)
11. 09:40 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Roger Kemp)
12. 09:44 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Doug Sapp)
13. 10:17 AM - fuse (CZ)
14. 10:20 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Brian Lloyd)
15. 10:31 AM - Re: Flight suits, leathers and conflict resolution (Yak Pilot)
16. 10:33 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (viperdoc)
17. 10:34 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (viperdoc)
18. 10:38 AM - Re: fuse (viperdoc)
19. 10:43 AM - Re: fuse (Doug Sapp)
20. 10:51 AM - Re: Automotive plugs (Doug Sapp)
21. 12:04 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 (YakL1@aol.com)
22. 12:06 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (Roger Kemp)
23. 12:35 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (PeteAbbott@aol.com)
24. 01:15 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (A. Dennis Savarese)
25. 01:20 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (A. Dennis Savarese)
26. 01:26 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (A. Dennis Savarese)
27. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 (A. Dennis Savarese)
28. 01:48 PM - Ignition Wire (Cliff Coy)
29. 01:54 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (Hans Oortman 1)
30. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 (YakL1@aol.com)
31. 02:09 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (A. Dennis Savarese)
32. 02:25 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (Brian Lloyd)
33. 02:32 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (cjpilot710@aol.com)
34. 02:36 PM - Re: Automotive plugs (A. Dennis Savarese)
35. 02:41 PM - 4 sale (cjpilot710@aol.com)
36. 04:10 PM - Re: MOGAS IN THE CJ REPLY (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
37. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: MOGAS IN THE CJ REPLY (Brian Lloyd)
38. 05:52 PM - Re: Mogas use (Roger Bieberdorf)
39. 08:13 PM - Re: mogas vs 100LL (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
40. 09:12 PM - Re: Re: mogas vs 100LL (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Looking for Yak Owner in Louisville or Indianapolis |
Do any of you live in either the Louisville or Indianapolis areas?
Ira
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Find the Yak-50 in this pictureFind the Yak-50 in this |
picture
Keep it simple, most of us are still looking for the airplane.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Yak Owner in Louisville or Indianapolis |
[quote="isaligman(at)saligman.com"]Do any of you live in either the Louisville
or Indianapolis areas?
Ira
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com (isaligman@Saligman.com)
> [b]
I know a guy with a Yak-50 in Louisville. I think there is a CJ in the area too.
There is a guy looking to buy one around the first of the year. (He may call
you Dennis..I have him you info)
What are you looking for. There are a few Yaks in the Cincinnati area...about two
hours from Indy and L'Ville.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145333#145333
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, leathers and conflict resolution |
Mark et all,
Clearly, my recommendation to write to admin@ flyredstar is NOT to crunch debate,
but to insure that debate (those well written lengthy positions) reaches those
elected by the members (the board of directors) or elected by those board
members (the president and national officers) who need look in to your positions
by reading your arguments -
The reason for my emphasizing this is many of those folks do not read this list.
During five years with RPA I could often not hit this yak list dailey, but tried
to answer every gripe or comment that made it to my inbox via the admin email
("I can't log in, where's my patch, how do I renew my FAST card, where do
I find an instructor, why is there no clinics in my region..."). Patience, I
know that the new president is putting people in place to expend great effort
right now on some new website infrastructure for members and this community based
on their multi-year feedback, as well as other projects,
Drew
__________________________________________________
Message 5
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some info.
for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.ChanockBorn to fly, Forced to work
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
at all Chanock -grin-
1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will make
them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine wire
direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports from the
Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very positive.
They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug better than 2 to 1.
Cheers,
C
Chanock Richka wrote:
>
> Hi Hi Yakers;
>
> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
> info. for what plugs are best to use.
>
> Thanks.
> Chanock
> Born to fly, Forced to work
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Call Dennis at Yak 52 World in Alabama
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
info. for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
Cliff,
It is going to be nice to have a replacement for the existing RU plugs by
Champion. But! When it cost about $45 for a single plug and 18 NGK plugs
cost the same as that one plug, after making the Taylor wiring harness
conversion of about $400, why buy 18 Champion plugs? Especially, when you
can throw away the NGK's at the end of a year of flying. However, mine and
others I have seen at the end of a year look perfectly fine and could
probably be used another year. But, when they only cost ~$45 for the entire
set, why take the risk?
As for the new direct replacement for the cigarette, again not to knock Jill
and Carl's efforts but the frankly the RU wiring sux. Even the brand new
harness that is on my newly rebuilt M14 from Lithuania with only 26 hours on
it to date, SUX! I have had to take the ends off the cigarette and spray
SP-2 down the shield to stop the misfiring. So far that has held up, when it
fails that beautifully done new harness is history! So putting a auto plug
adapter on the end of a P.O.S. RU wire is like trying to make a silk purse
out of a pig's ear.
In my not so humble opinion. But I definitely know I have earned the T shirt
for test flying misfiring RU plug wire harnesses and crapped out "new"
coils! I suspect I have more time nursing misfiring RU engines because of
"new coils" and "rebuilt" mags than anyone on this list. If anyone can beat
almost 2 straight months of removing re-installing mags, test flying, and
nursing a piss ant engine back onto the ground after 15-20 min flight that
started out great, let me know! Part of the problem was no matter how many
times you set the timing on a M-9F centriple advance mag on a standard M14,
you are not going to have a pleasant flight! That all thanks to some ass
hole in RU scrubbing the embossing off the mag and selling it as a standard
mag. Not to add that the coils that came with the original mags were shot
too!
So, after getting my newly rebuilt engine, hanging it, and experiencing
misfires due to the very new RU wiring harness it has left a definite bad
taste in my mouth. I would not put a cigarette conversion on. I will change
the entire wire harness and plug adapter instead and throw the 18 RU plugs
or Chinese plugs in the Coosa River.
Sorry being so vehement in my response. Maybe that system will work for
others but I have serious doubts.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Coy
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
at all Chanock -grin-
1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will make
them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine wire
direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports from the
Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very positive.
They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug better than 2 to 1.
Cheers,
C
Chanock Richka wrote:
>
> Hi Hi Yakers;
>
> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
> info. for what plugs are best to use.
>
> Thanks.
> Chanock
> Born to fly, Forced to work
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
On Nov 12, 2007, at 7:13 AM, viperdoc wrote:
> So, after getting my newly rebuilt engine, hanging it, and
> experiencing
> misfires due to the very new RU wiring harness it has left a
> definite bad
> taste in my mouth. I would not put a cigarette conversion on. I
> will change
> the entire wire harness and plug adapter instead and throw the 18
> RU plugs
> or Chinese plugs in the Coosa River.
> Sorry being so vehement in my response. Maybe that system will work
> for
> others but I have serious doubts.
The plugs in my first CJ (running mostly on mogas) went for over 500
hours. The only reason I changed them is that they had 500 hours on
'em, not because they weren't serviceable. Other than setting the
point gap, setting the timing, and inspecting the plugs, I didn't
need to do any maintenance. So I suspect you will find all sorts of
stories out there on the stock ignition systems.
But let's look at it another way. The ignition on the Huosai and M14P
is straight out of the 1920's, well maybe 1930's in the case of a few
of the mags with centrifugal advance. In the mean time the automotive
industry has come up with much more reliable solutions with plug life
running to 100,000 mi. Kinda makes you wonder, no? But one of the
things you notice is that they abandoned shielded plug wires a long
time ago. It is also interesting to note that a lot of experimental
aircraft are also going to silicone wires with a coil-per-plug
electronic ignition. They are seeing substantial performance
improvements too.
Oh, and the silicone resistor wires are easier to maintain.
I guess you get to make a decision.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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| Subject: | Compression Test Plug |
What pseudo-spark-plug do I need for the compression test kit that I have...
I want to use it on my stock 285hp CJ engine?
Thanks,
Jon
Message 11
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they are out
of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it does! I'll
ride this horse until she starts to buck.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
On Nov 12, 2007, at 7:13 AM, viperdoc wrote:
> So, after getting my newly rebuilt engine, hanging it, and
> experiencing
> misfires due to the very new RU wiring harness it has left a
> definite bad
> taste in my mouth. I would not put a cigarette conversion on. I
> will change
> the entire wire harness and plug adapter instead and throw the 18
> RU plugs
> or Chinese plugs in the Coosa River.
> Sorry being so vehement in my response. Maybe that system will work
> for
> others but I have serious doubts.
The plugs in my first CJ (running mostly on mogas) went for over 500
hours. The only reason I changed them is that they had 500 hours on
'em, not because they weren't serviceable. Other than setting the
point gap, setting the timing, and inspecting the plugs, I didn't
need to do any maintenance. So I suspect you will find all sorts of
stories out there on the stock ignition systems.
But let's look at it another way. The ignition on the Huosai and M14P
is straight out of the 1920's, well maybe 1930's in the case of a few
of the mags with centrifugal advance. In the mean time the automotive
industry has come up with much more reliable solutions with plug life
running to 100,000 mi. Kinda makes you wonder, no? But one of the
things you notice is that they abandoned shielded plug wires a long
time ago. It is also interesting to note that a lot of experimental
aircraft are also going to silicone wires with a coil-per-plug
electronic ignition. They are seeing substantial performance
improvements too.
Oh, and the silicone resistor wires are easier to maintain.
I guess you get to make a decision.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
And 3) Chinese DZ5 plugs work great in the M14P, come with all the
copper washers and a go / no go gapping tool in each hermetically sealed
package of 10 factory new plugs. Price is $20.00 per plug.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Cliff Coy wrote:
>
> Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
> at all Chanock -grin-
>
> 1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
> in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
> current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
>
> 2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will
> make them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine
> wire direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports
> from the Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very
> positive. They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug
> better than 2 to 1.
>
> Cheers,
> C
>
> Chanock Richka wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Hi Yakers;
>>
>> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
>> info. for what plugs are best to use.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Chanock
>> Born to fly, Forced to work
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
>> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 13
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cJ6
I was having an electrical problem sunday, as in no power, and I found the 50 amp
fuse blown in the box to the right of the pilot.
1) does anyone know where to buy the subject fuse or a replacement?
2) has anyone replaced these with circuit breakers?
3) Does anyone have a readable wire diagram?
Thank you
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145441#145441
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they
> are out
> of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it
> does! I'll
> ride this horse until she starts to buck.
Dennis has made a coil-per-plug electronic ignition? I thought he had
made a wire kit. Regardless, the silicon-wire-automotive-plug kit
would be a huge advantage over the old plug-and-wire approach.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits, leathers and conflict resolution |
Drew, I wrote the RPA. So it all is said and done.
Lastly, if I was a board member of any organization that was being talked about
in public, I would make it my business to go to that source and read about it
myself. This subject has come up before and has been debated until it is dead
in the water. The facts are known... all of them... good and bad. What makes
it keep coming back up is that new people arrive and are led to believe certain
things that are not exactly accurate. They repeat these things in good
faith, and those that know better are very quick to point out the error of their
ways. That then draws out of the woodwork those that also could care less
about Flightsuits themselves, but think that PEOPLE SHOULD DO AS THEY HAVE BEEN
TOLD. Of course you know what happens next there as well.
Bottom line is that I suspect that the RPA Board members are well aware of the
issues involved. If not, then they should be so after they read the letter you
encouraged that I write, and you brief them on the subject.
Thanks,
Mark
----- Original Message ----
From: Drew <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:52:17 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Flight suits, leathers and conflict resolution
Mark et all,
Clearly, my recommendation to write to admin@ flyredstar is NOT to crunch debate,
but to insure that debate (those well written lengthy positions) reaches those
elected by the members (the board of directors) or elected by those board
members (the president and national officers) who need look in to your positions
by reading your arguments -
The reason for my emphasizing this is many of those folks do not read this list.
During five years with RPA I could often not hit this yak list dailey, but tried
to answer every gripe or comment that made it to my inbox via the admin email
("I can't log in, where's my patch, how do I renew my FAST card, where do
I find an instructor, why is there no clinics in my region..."). Patience, I
know that the new president is putting people in place to expend great effort
right now on some new website infrastructure for members and this community based
on their multi-year feedback, as well as other projects,
Message 16
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
Doug,
Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helped
me a bunch in the past but...at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking
$360. Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plus
the new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's.
I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost is
about $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You just
throw the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch
rocket. But he only needs 2 to 4 of them.
Now for those that your CAA will not let you do the auto plug conversion,
Doug's got a good deal there. Sorry!
:>))
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
And 3) Chinese DZ5 plugs work great in the M14P, come with all the
copper washers and a go / no go gapping tool in each hermetically sealed
package of 10 factory new plugs. Price is $20.00 per plug.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Cliff Coy wrote:
>
> Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
> at all Chanock -grin-
>
> 1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
> in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
> current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
>
> 2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will
> make them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine
> wire direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports
> from the Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very
> positive. They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug
> better than 2 to 1.
>
> Cheers,
> C
>
> Chanock Richka wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Hi Yakers;
>>
>> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
>> info. for what plugs are best to use.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Chanock
>> Born to fly, Forced to work
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
>> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
His is a plug wire kit with the first set of 18 plugs included. No he has
not made a coil per plug conversion kit to date.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they
> are out
> of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it
> does! I'll
> ride this horse until she starts to buck.
Dennis has made a coil-per-plug electronic ignition? I thought he had
made a wire kit. Regardless, the silicon-wire-automotive-plug kit
would be a huge advantage over the old plug-and-wire approach.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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Answer:
For the fuse contact Doug Sapp. They work in the 50/52 also.
As for placing a circuit breaker... a 50 amp unit will work fine and solves
the problem of ever having to replace the fuse again.
No, I do not have a wiring diagram for the CJ. Do for a YAK 50 and 52
though.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of CZ
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:17 PM
Subject: Yak-List: fuse
cJ6
I was having an electrical problem sunday, as in no power, and I found the
50 amp fuse blown in the box to the right of the pilot.
1) does anyone know where to buy the subject fuse or a replacement?
2) has anyone replaced these with circuit breakers?
3) Does anyone have a readable wire diagram?
Thank you
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145441#145441
Message 19
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CZ wrote:
>
>cJ6
>I was having an electrical problem sunday, as in no power, and I found the 50
amp fuse blown in the box to the right of the pilot.
>
>1) does anyone know where to buy the subject fuse or a replacement?
>
>
*I have them in stock .*
>2) has anyone replaced these with circuit breakers?
>
*I have not, but it should be possible.*
>
>3) Does anyone have a readable wire diagram?
>
>
*There are very good fold outs ( first generation copies) of all the CJ6
elect diagrams in the back of the Tech. Spec. For Service and Maint.
manual. I have them as well as the other 8 CJ manuals in stock, give me
a call @ 509-826-4610 or drop me a email.
Always Yakin,
Doug*
>Thank you
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145441#145441
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Roger,
I never did say there was any thing wrong with the auto plugs, just said
there is yet another choice other than paying the big price for the
Champions.
Hopefully you don't do your own billings..... do you?? ;o)
Always Yakin,
Doug
viperdoc wrote:
>
>Doug,
>Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helped
>me a bunch in the past but...*at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking
>$360.* Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plus
>the new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's.
>I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost is
>about $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You just
>throw the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch
>rocket. But he only needs 2 to 4 of them.
>Now for those that your CAA will not let you do the auto plug conversion,
>Doug's got a good deal there. Sorry!
>
>:>))
>Doc
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
>Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:44 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
>
>
>And 3) Chinese DZ5 plugs work great in the M14P, come with all the
>copper washers and a go / no go gapping tool in each hermetically sealed
>package of 10 factory new plugs. Price is $20.00 per plug.
>
>Always Yakin,
>Doug
>
>Cliff Coy wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
>>at all Chanock -grin-
>>
>>1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
>>in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
>>current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
>>
>>2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will
>>make them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine
>>wire direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports
>>from the Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very
>>positive. They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug
>>better than 2 to 1.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>C
>>
>>Chanock Richka wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Hi Yakers;
>>>
>>>I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
>>>info. for what plugs are best to use.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>>Chanock
>>>Born to fly, Forced to work
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
>>><http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>>*
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 |
I am trying to contact Dennis Severese. I have a third party who is
interested in purchasing and airplane.
Dennis, if you see this please respond here or to my other address at
_Jjzecherle@aol.com_ (mailto:Jjzecherle@aol.com) .
If anyone else has an address for Dennis I would appreciate their forwarding
it.
Thank you.
John Zecherle
Message 22
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
See what you mean! Duh!
And no I have a billing manager..with as complicated as 3rd party insurance
and Medicare has become.I'm not smart enough!
Sorry Doug saw the $10 wrote the $ 10 but $? Don't know where that one got
pulled out of a damp dark place. How I converted 180 to 360 ? Well,yeah I do
it you multiply x 2!
Anybody need 36 chinese plugs..Doug has them for a good price!JJ
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Roger,
I never did say there was any thing wrong with the auto plugs, just said
there is yet another choice other than paying the big price for the
Champions.
Hopefully you don't do your own billings..... do you?? ;o)
Always Yakin,
Doug
viperdoc wrote:
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Doug,
Not trying to be an ass but this sounds like it. God knows you have helped
me a bunch in the past but...at 10 bucks a plug X 18 plugs you are talking
$360. Add about $40 to it and you have the cost of the conversion kit plus
the new champion motorcycle plugs or NGk's.
I know the installation is a pain in the but. Once done though, the cost is
about $48 for the entire set of new NGK's with the next annual. You just
throw the others away or give them to some kid that is riding a crotch
rocket. But he only needs 2 to 4 of them.
Now for those that your CAA will not let you do the auto plug conversion,
Doug's got a good deal there. Sorry!
:>))
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
<rvfltd@televar.com>
And 3) Chinese DZ5 plugs work great in the M14P, come with all the
copper washers and a go / no go gapping tool in each hermetically sealed
package of 10 factory new plugs. Price is $20.00 per plug.
Always Yakin,
Doug
Cliff Coy wrote:
<cliff@gesoco.com>
Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you
at all Chanock -grin-
1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available
in about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the
current plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will
make them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine
wire direct replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports
from the Romanian factory, and field tests here in the states are very
positive. They're gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug
better than 2 to 1.
Cheers,
C
Chanock Richka wrote:
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
info. for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
<http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
<http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
*
*
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Doc's are never good with math!!
That is why they like the 52's, all percentages!
Pete
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Chanock,
Go to my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on MODIFICATIONS. There
you will find a link to the conversion and also a download of the
complete installation instructions. I have the kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:35 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
info. for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
The problem with the ignition system on the M14 is not the plugs. It is and
has always been the ignition harness. Russian or Chinese plugs typically
last 300-400 hours. When you replace the harness with the 8 mm silicon
wires that come in my kit (sorry for the advertisement), you eliminate the
ignition harness problem forever and you can replace plugs at a cost of $36
for the set. I'll bet the new Champion plug will be $36 EACH. Heck, their
REL37B's are almost that much already! What do you think a new specialty
plug will cost? Just read what people have said about the conversion kit
and installation on my web site. www.yak-52.com.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Coy" <cliff@gesoco.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
>
> Two things about the auto plug conversion that isn't going to help you at
> all Chanock -grin-
>
> 1) Jill & Carl will have their automotive sparkplug adapters available in
> about a month or two. These will be a direct replacement for the current
> plugs without any change to the ignition harness.
>
> 2) Champion Aerospace has completed testing of the RVL-38S and will make
> them for sale in the beginning of next year. These are a fine wire direct
> replacement for current Russian plugs. The test reports from the Romanian
> factory, and field tests here in the states are very positive. They're
> gonna be pricey, but will outlast a Russian plug better than 2 to 1.
>
> Cheers,
> C
>
> Chanock Richka wrote:
>>
>> Hi Hi Yakers;
>> I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some
>> info. for what plugs are best to use.
>> Thanks.
>> Chanock
>> Born to fly, Forced to work
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
>> <http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Director of Maintenance
> Border Air Ltd
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Sorry Brian. It's not a coil/plug kit. I wish it was! It's just a
replacement harness with the latest and greatest automotive plug wire
technology. Anyone interested in reading how these 8 mm hi-tech racing
wires suppress noise, you can read all about it on my web site
www.yak-52.com, under MODIFICATIONS.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
>>
>> It has already been made my friend! Cough, spit, sputter, and they are
>> out
>> of there! Dennis has a kit sitting on the shelf for me when it does!
>> I'll
>> ride this horse until she starts to buck.
>
> Dennis has made a coil-per-plug electronic ignition? I thought he had
> made a wire kit. Regardless, the silicon-wire-automotive-plug kit would
> be a huge advantage over the old plug-and-wire approach.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 |
John,
Here is my contact information.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-2141
334-546-8182 (cell)
Skype: yakworld1
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com
adsavarese@hotmail.com
www.yak-52.com
----- Original Message -----
From: YakL1@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07
I am trying to contact Dennis Severese. I have a third party who is
interested in purchasing and airplane.
Dennis, if you see this please respond here or to my other address at
Jjzecherle@aol.com.
If anyone else has an address for Dennis I would appreciate their
forwarding it.
Thank you.
John Zecherle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
See wha
Message 28
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We replace the ignition wire with BIW 5mm steel core silicone wire.
It's a direct replacement.
Al at Savage Magneto carries it.
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Automotive plugs |
Dennis,
What's wrong with your website? I cannot get on your website.I get something
like aplus.net????
Hans
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese
Verzonden: maandag 12 november 2007 22:13
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Chanock,
Go to my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on MODIFICATIONS. There you
will find a link to the conversion and also a download of the complete
installation instructions. I have the kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka <mailto:crichka@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:35 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need some info.
for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
_____
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get
<http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us> 'em!
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/11/07 |
Thanks, Dennis, I will pass it along.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Wow! Thanks for letting me know. I'll find out what's going on.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Dennis,
What's wrong with your website? I cannot get on your website.I get
something like aplus.net????
Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese
Verzonden: maandag 12 november 2007 22:13
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Chanock,
Go to my web site, www.yak-52.com, and click on MODIFICATIONS. There
you will find a link to the conversion and also a download of the
complete installation instructions. I have the kits in stock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Chanock Richka
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 7:35 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
Hi Hi Yakers;
I am converting my M-14P to Automotive spark plug system. I need
some info. for what plugs are best to use.
Thanks.
Chanock
Born to fly, Forced to work
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y
ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
On Nov 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Sorry Brian. It's not a coil/plug kit. I wish it was! It's just
> a replacement harness with the latest and greatest automotive plug
> wire technology. Anyone interested in reading how these 8 mm hi-
> tech racing wires suppress noise, you can read all about it on my
> web site www.yak-52.com, under MODIFICATIONS.
Are you doing it for the Housai engines too? I would assume the kit
would work for both J1A and M14P.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
I have to agree with Dennis. I chased problems with my M14P ignition system
for hundreds of hours. It turned out that the harness itself was breaking
down. The harness as it comes, is pre WW2. Advanced for its time. But
insulation on the wire breaks down with time. It will short though small cracks
in the insulation, particularly when any moisture gets in. When you were able
to definitely identify a problem in one wire, its was a bitch to change out.
I once change all the wires in the harness with a "super great" 5mm wire
from Savage Magneto. I spent 2 days at it. Than it turned out that in pulling
the wires though the harness ring, caused small cuts in the insulation as it
turned around the feed edges. Less than 100 hours later, I started having
the same problems, and again I started blaming the plugs or mags.
It came to a head one morning at altitude on my way to a RPA airshow event
in IL. With my stinker muscles contracted, I made a precautionary landing in
Americas, Ga. where a very young mechanic prove to me that my entire problem
was the harness. It took 4 hours to remove the old setup and it takes 4
hours (being careful to run the wires correctly) to put on the new.
The Chinese and Russian plugs are really OK, so are the mags. If your
harness is new it will be fine too. But it WILL break down over time, not just
running time, but calendar time. So if you start having intermittent problems,
speciality with moist conditions, it mostly likely is in the harness.
Being able to use cheaper but excellent auto plugs, to me is a secondary
benefit. Having a reliable harness delivering that spark of life, is worth it
all.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
has always been the ignition harness. Russian or Chinese plugs typically
last 300-400 hours. When you replace the harness with the 8 mm silicon
wires that come in my kit (sorry for the advertisement), you eliminate the
ignition harness problem forever and you can replace plugs at a cost of $36
for the set. I'll bet the new Champion plug will be $36 EACH. Heck, their
REL37B's are almost that much already! What do you think a new specialty
plug will cost? Just read what people have said about the conversion kit
and installation on my web site. www.yak-52.com.
Dennis
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive plugs |
Yes, it works great on the Housai engine as well.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Automotive plugs
>
>
> On Nov 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>> Sorry Brian. It's not a coil/plug kit. I wish it was! It's just a
>> replacement harness with the latest and greatest automotive plug wire
>> technology. Anyone interested in reading how these 8 mm hi- tech racing
>> wires suppress noise, you can read all about it on my web site
>> www.yak-52.com, under MODIFICATIONS.
>
> Are you doing it for the Housai engines too? I would assume the kit would
> work for both J1A and M14P.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
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Hay, guys I've decided to clean out my hangar.
I have a box of used (But probably good) Chinese and Russian plugs.
Plus a HS-6 (260 hp) engine with 250 hours. Minus mags, generator.
I'll put it E-bay if I don't get a response here. ;-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
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| Subject: | Re: MOGAS IN THE CJ REPLY |
Sorry it took so long to reply, just back from the Nellis AFB show.? As I said
we have been running mogas in both the CJ and Yak for several years now.? The
CJ was designed to run on 70oct so 87 is not a problem.? The amount of lead in
100LL is almost nil, but since we cannot always get mogas and all the airshow
serve 100LL we get enough of that to put our 100LL to mogas ratio at about 50/50.?
I have had two jugs off now for leaking base gaskets and have inspected
the valves for unusual wear (old race car mechanic I was) and have found no difference
between the engines that run 100 vs mogas. The bigger problem I think
is people not taking the time to set each valve four times when adjusting the
valves and then ending up with a tight one and then burned.? So like I said we
have been happily running along now for about 2000hrs total on regular old 87
oct without a single problem.? Be advised tho that you cannot run ethanol or
really crappy gas.? We use the Peterson Mogas STC fu
el tester when buying gas out and about.? Once we have found a local station that
we could test several times as good we just stick with their fuel and only
test once a awhile.? NO ETHANOL THO it rots the rubber hoses from the inside
out. We have never found an airport that had ethanol in the fuel they sold.
The engine runs better as 87 oct produces more power than 100LL, remember that
our 6:1 compression ration engines don't need hi octane fuel, so that is just
a waste.? We see cleaner plugs (auto plugs now)? and just a tag lower cylinder
head temps (have a nine cyl gauge).?
One thing we do, and I can't really say why, is that we do run Marvel Mystery Oil
in the fuel, I just dump in one quart per 90 gals of fuel in my truck tanker
and let it go at that.? I don't know if it really does anything but I figure
it can't hurt the valve guides to have a little oil running around.? Its only
about 2 bucks a qt at Wal mart so what the hell.
So thats my two cents, I have put over 4000 gals of mogas through my CJ engine
with nary a burp, in my warped mind that is $6000.00 in fuel savings over 100LL.?
Thats buys a lot of Rum my friends!!
Email me if you want any further info on my truck tanker set up or mogas use.?
I also have a web site that lists all the airports that carry mogas, many back
east but few out west.? I did tho fly all the way to Sun and Fun and back on
mogas, which was never over $2.88 a gallon!!
Regards All!
GBunn
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: MOGAS IN THE CJ REPLY |
On Nov 12, 2007, at 4:08 PM, vectorwarbirds@aol.com wrote:
> Sorry it took so long to reply, just back from the Nellis AFB
> show. As I said we have been running mogas in both the CJ and Yak
> for several years now. The CJ was designed to run on 70oct so 87
> is not a problem.
I would add one thing to that. The way that octane is measured for
mogas and for avgas is different. The rule of thumb is that the (R+M)/
2 method used for mogas results in an octane rating about 5 points
higher than the technique used for avgas. For example, 87 octane
mogas is approximately equivalent to 82 octane avgas.
> The amount of lead in 100LL is almost nil,
Sorry, but I need to disagree with you here. There is a LOT of lead
in 100LL. Don't let the 'LL' fool you. 100LL still has about six
times the lead of 80/87 avgas and way more than any leaded mogas ever
had. 100LL is low-lead only when compared to the old 100/130 octane
"green gas".
> but since we cannot always get mogas and all the airshow serve
> 100LL we get enough of that to put our 100LL to mogas ratio at
> about 50/50. I have had two jugs off now for leaking base gaskets
> and have inspected the valves for unusual wear (old race car
> mechanic I was) and have found no difference between the engines
> that run 100 vs mogas. The bigger problem I think is people not
> taking the time to set each valve four times when adjusting the
> valves and then ending up with a tight one and then burned. So
> like I said we have been happily running along now for about
> 2000hrs total on regular old 87 oct without a single problem. Be
> advised tho that you ca nnot run ethanol or really crappy gas. We
> use the Peterson Mogas STC fuel tester when buying gas out and
> about. Once we have found a local station that we could test
> several times as good we just stick with their fuel and only test
> once a awhile. NO ETHANOL THO it rots the rubber hoses from the
> inside out. We have never found an airport that had ethanol in the
> fuel they sold.
>
> The engine runs better as 87 oct produces more power than 100LL,
Again, I believe you are mistaken. Gasoline is gasoline. The energy
contained in gasoline is pretty constant regardless of where or how
it is made. The octane rating only has to do with the anti-knock
qualities of the fuel, not any energy content. A change in energy
content would probably require a change in mixture as well and our
carbs don't know how to change mixture without our help.
> remember that our 6:1 compression ration engines don't need hi
> octane fuel, so that is just a waste. We see cleaner plugs (auto
> plugs now) and just a tag lower cylinder head temps (have a nine
> cyl gauge).
I agree 100%. Plugs seem to last a lot longer with mogas than with
avgas.
> One thing we do, and I can't really say why, is that we do run
> Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel, I just dump in one quart per 90
> gals of fuel in my truck tanker and let it go at that. I don't
> know if it really does anything but I figure it can't hurt the
> valve guides to have a little oil running around. Its only about 2
> bucks a qt at Wal mart so what the hell.
>
> So thats my two cents, I have put over 4000 gals of mogas through
> my CJ engine with nary a burp, in my warped mind that is $6000.00
> in fuel savings over 100LL. Thats buys a lot of Rum my friends!!
>
> Email me if you want any further info on my truck tanker set up or
> mogas use. I also have a web site that lists all the airports that
> carry mogas, many back east but few out west. I did tho fly all
> the way to Sun and Fun and back on mogas, which was never over
> $2.88 a gallon!!
We can't seem to get mogas without alcohol here in the PRC (People's
Republic of California) anymore. More's the pity.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 38
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Craig;
What do you feel was the source of the contanimation......was it in the gas as
purchased; or did it get there after the handling thru the containers? How
were you transporting the gas?
Thanks, Roger Bieberdorf
Craig Payne <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > How come your not running auto gas like us Westerners?? Been on it for
four years
> now, with 650 hrs on the CJ with zero problems.? Auto is $2.65 a gallon out
> here!!? Why would you burn anything else?? Avgas is $ 4.55 gallon here
>
>
Well I do burn it but along with 100LL in a 50/50 mix in the M-14P. Huosai's
have a lower compression ratio and my Huosai engine always did better on "pure"
mogas than 100LL. Winter-blended mogas up Nawth contains more "stuff" so I didn't
use it then.
Down "hear", 200 miles South of the Deep South, we get fine "sugar sand" in the
mogas. I had partial fuel stoppage back in September and had to extract my
parachute from my body when I finally landed safely. I found fine sand in my carb,
fuel strainer and sump.
Now I use a filtered funnel or a chamois when mogas is poured.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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| Subject: | Re: mogas vs 100LL |
According to Aeroshell:
72 octane is the highest grade of gasoline that can be
manufactured without [additives].
80/87 has 0.50 ml TEL [tetra-ethyl lead] per gallon and is dyed RED
91/96 2.00 ml TEL per gallon BLUE
100LL 2.00 ml TEL per gallon BLUE
100/130 3.00 ml TEL per gallon GREEN
115/145 4.60 ml TEL per gallon PURPLE
That makes the lead content of 100LL only 4 times higher than 80/87 octane not
8.
As for the idea that all gasoline is gasoline that it not true.
What is true that 80/87 produces more power than 100LL given the engine does not
require a higher octane for anti knock reasons.? The reason for this is that
80/87 has a higher volitility rating than 100LL, so in simple terms it burns
faster.? In engines made to burn lower octane fuel the timing and other engine
parameters were set for this factor.? It might seem odd that fuels with higher
octane ratings burn less
easily, yet are popularly thought of as more powerful.? This
misunderstanding is caused by confusing the ability of the fuel to
resist compression detonation as opposed to the ability of the fuel to
burn (combustion).? A simple explanation is that carbon-carbon bonds contain more
energy
than carbon-hydrogen bonds.? Hence a fuel with a greater number of
carbon bonds will carry more energy regardless of the octane rating and 80/87 carries
a greater number than 100LL.
If you take that same fuel that worked well in a high compression engine and use
it in a low compression engine with it's lower cranking compression and lower
combustion chamber temps, it will, without a doubt, burn
much too slowly
at those lower temps and pressures and reach maximum cylinder pressure too
far after TDC for best power.
Things generally burn slower when they are cooler and
vice versa. Peak cylinder pressure will occur much past TDC - decreasing the power
produced if you keep the same ignition timing.
You can advance ignition timing to try to recover power, but that will cause
the air/fuel mixture to burn earlier in the crank stroke and spend,
percentage wise, more of the energy produced by the expanding, burning
mixture, pushing back down, trying to prevent the piston from rising up to
the power stroke - robbing power.
If you MUST use a slow burning fuel, which USUALLY has a high
octane rating, advancing the ignition timing will lessen the power loss,
but the best results are usually obtained with the quickest burning fuel
obtainable, that, of course, doesn't "knock".
All other factors being the same, except for burn rate - use the quickest burning
fuel
that doesn't "knock", light the spark in the middle of the combustion chamber,
adjust ignition timing to reach peak cylinder pressure ~TDC and keep your mixture
correct.
When the ignition timing is correct, the engine will make best power for that fuel.
Also according to the EAA Peterson STC you
can put mo-gas in the tank 75% (TEL 0.002 ml) and 25% av-gas
(100LL at 2.00 ml TEL) and you have the same 0.50 ml TEL that 80/87 had.? Another
way is to run about three tanks of mo-gas and
the fourth is a tank of av-gas (100LL)
So I think the bottom line it this, our engines were designed and built to burn
70 octane Chinese or Russian fuel not 100LL Avgas. And until someone can show
me the stats on the lead content in Chinese 70 oct I will continue to use mogas
and avgas at the shows in mine.
One thing I do know, its cheaper!!
Thanks for your thoughts.
GBunn
Vector Aviation USA
________________________________________________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: mogas vs 100LL |
On Nov 12, 2007, at 8:12 PM, vectorwarbirds@aol.com wrote:
> According to Aeroshell:
>
> 72 octane is the highest grade of gasoline that can be manufactured
> without [additives].
> 80/87 has 0.50 ml TEL [tetra-ethyl lead] per gallon and is dyed RED
> 91/96 2.00 ml TEL per gallon BLUE
> 100LL 2.00 ml TEL per gallon BLUE
> 100/130 3.00 ml TEL per gallon GREEN
> 115/145 4.60 ml TEL per gallon PURPLE
>
>
> That makes the lead content of 100LL only 4 times higher than 80/87
> octane not 8.
Well, I said, "about six times". I didn't look it up before
commenting. Shame on me.
> As for the idea that all gasoline is gasoline that it not true.
>
> What is true that 80/87 produces more power than 100LL given the
> engine does not require a higher octane for anti knock reasons.
> The reason for this is that 80/87 has a higher volitility rating
> than 100LL, so in simple terms it burns faster.
Hmm, my understanding is different. I was under the impression that
octane rating does not affect the speed of combustion, only the
resistance to detonation.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
To quote:
"Octane rating has no direct impact on the deflagration (burn) of the
air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber. Other properties of
gasoline and engine design account for the manner at which
deflagration takes place. In other words, the flame speed of a
normally ignited mixture is not directly connected to octane rating.
Deflagration is the type of combustion that constitutes the normal
burn. Detonation is a different type of combustion and this is to be
avoided in spark ignited gasoline engines. Octane rating is a measure
of detonation resistance, not deflagration characteristics."
> In engines made to burn lower octane fuel the timing and other
> engine parameters were set for this factor. It might seem odd that
> fuels with higher octane ratings burn less easily, yet are
> popularly thought of as more powerful. This misunderstanding is
> caused by confusing the ability of the fuel to resist compression
> detonation as opposed to the ability of the fuel to burn
> (combustion). A simple explanation is that carbon-carbon bonds
> contain more energy than carbon-hydrogen bonds. Hence a fuel with
> a greater number of carbon bonds will carry more energy regardless
> of the octane rating and 80/87 carries a greater number than 100LL.
Hmm, most gasoline comes from the same base stock at the refineries.
Again, I was under the impression that the differences mostly stem
from the additive packages that go into the base gasoline after
refining.
As for carbon-carbon bonds vs. carbon-hydrogen bonds: it seems to me
that we would have a different reaction requiring a different amount
of O2 to ensure complete combustion. Since all these fuels operate at
the same mixtures by mass, it seems to me that the gasoline is
therefore inherently the same.
> If you take that same fuel that worked well in a high compression
> engine and use it in a low compression engine with it's lower
> cranking compression and lower combustion chamber temps, it will,
> without a doubt, burn much too slowly at those lower temps and
> pressures and reach maximum cylinder pressure too far after TDC for
> best power.
This also seems odd. If so, we would notice a difference in
performance between mogas and avgas with performance suffering from
the use of avgas. I am not aware of anyone noticing this. I am also
not aware of any warnings that an engine designed for 72 or 80 octane
fuel will produce less power when operated on 100LL. I suspect that,
were this so, the EAA and the FAA would let us know.
> Things generally burn slower when they are cooler and vice versa.
> Peak cylinder pressure will occur much past TDC - decreasing the
> power produced if you keep the same ignition timing.
Hmm, another interesting point would be EGT. If what you are saying
is true, there would be a general increase in EGT with 100LL as the
combustion endpoint would be later leading to less heat transfer to
the cylinder and resulting in higher absolute exhaust gas
temperatures. I certainly have never noticed a difference in absolute
EGTs when operating on mogas vs. 100LL.
> You can advance ignition timing to try to recover power, but that
> will cause the air/fuel mixture to burn earlier in the crank stroke
> and spend, percentage wise, more of the energy produced by the
> expanding, burning mixture, pushing back down, trying to prevent
> the piston from rising up to the power stroke - robbing power.
> If you MUST use a slow burning fuel, which USUALLY has a high
> octane rating, advancing the ignition timing will lessen the power
> loss, but the best results are usually obtained with the quickest
> burning fuel obtainable, that, of course, doesn't "knock".
Hmm, the airframe and engine manufacturers do not specify different
ignition timings for different fuels. If what you say is true, I
would expect them to require a change in spark timing if different
fuels are being used.
> All other factors being the same, except for burn rate - use the
> quickest burning fuel that doesn't "knock", light the spark in the
> middle of the combustion chamber,
Wouldn't two points of ignition result in two flame fronts and more
complete combustion? Isn't that why we get more power and lower EGTs
with both mags on?
> adjust ignition timing to reach peak cylinder pressure ~TDC and
> keep your mixture correct.
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that you want peak
cylinder pressure to occur substantially after TDC where the crank
position provides more favorable mechanical advantage.
> When the ignition timing is correct, the engine will make best
> power for that fuel.
I agree with that.
> Also according to the EAA Peterson STC you can put mo-gas in the
> tank 75% (TEL 0.002 ml) and 25% av-gas (100LL at 2.00 ml TEL) and
> you have the same 0.50 ml TEL that 80/87 had. Another way is to
> run about three tanks of mo-gas and the fourth is a tank of av-gas
> (100LL)
Yes.
Also, a tiny amount of 100LL added to mogas results in a substantial
increase in octane/AKI (anti-knock index), more than one would expect
by the amount of TEL introduced.
>
> So I think the bottom line it this, our engines were designed and
> built to burn 70 octane Chinese or Russian fuel not 100LL Avgas.
> And until someone can show me the stats on the lead content in
> Chinese 70 oct I will continue to use mogas and avgas at the shows
> in mine.
>
> One thing I do know, its cheaper!!
Yup, I agree with that.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> GBunn
> Vector Aviation USA
>
> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List _-
> ===========================================================
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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