Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:07 AM - Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published Dec 1! (Matt Dralle)
1. 08:55 AM - Car Gas (Ira Saligman)
2. 10:56 AM - Re: Car Gas (Brian Lloyd)
3. 11:45 AM - YAK55 electrical system (Daniel Ryfa)
4. 03:20 PM - Re: Car Gas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 03:47 PM - Re: Car Gas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 04:40 PM - Re: Car Gas (Dale)
7. 04:53 PM - Re: Car Gas (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 05:39 PM - SB's (Anthony Hudacek)
9. 05:47 PM - Re: Car Gas (Brian Lloyd)
10. 06:18 PM - Re: Car Gas (A. Dennis Savarese)
11. 07:47 PM - Re: Car Gas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 08:13 PM - Re: Car Gas (fish@aviation-tech.com)
13. 08:22 PM - Re: Car Gas (Roger Kemp)
14. 08:41 PM - Re: Car Gas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
15. 09:07 PM - Re: Car Gas (cjpilot710@aol.com)
16. 09:42 PM - Re: Car Gas (Roger Baker)
17. 09:49 PM - Re: Car Gas (Brian Lloyd)
18. 09:51 PM - Re: Car Gas (Brian Lloyd)
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| Subject: | Make Sure You're Listed! List of Contributors Published Dec |
1!
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post
a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists.
Its my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their
appreciation for the Lists.
As a number of people have pointed out in their Contribution comments, these Lists
seems at least as valuable of a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical
your magazine subscription! And how interactive is a magazine, after all?
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others
that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists
is fast and easy using your Visa, MasterCard, or Paypal account:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus
far during this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps
these Lists running and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment
about how the Lists have helped you!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up to 10%
ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas with a
10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 2
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On Nov 26, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Ira Saligman wrote:
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in
> their M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
There are really two problems with ethanol in fuel:
1. It is hygroscopic -- it absorbs water. It will hold water in
suspension so it can't be drained but then will drop the water out of
suspension upon reaching some lower temperature. Most annoying to
drain your sumps, find the fuel clear, take off, and then have to
make a forced landing with a dead engine 'cause your carb and fuel
lines are full of the water that came out of the fuel when the fuel
cooled at altitude.
2. It can attack some materials.
Based on this, I am not a fan of using gasoline that contains any
alcohol.
You can test for alcohol. I made a tester out of an old martini olive
jar. Put a mark at about 10% and another at about 90%. Fill with
water to the 10% mark and then with fuel to the 90% mark. Cap and
shake well. Let it sit until it separates. If the dividing line
between the water and fuel has changed from the 10% mark (it will
have dropped) then your fuel contains alcohol. If not, it is alcohol
free and may be used in your airplane.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 3
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| Subject: | YAK55 electrical system |
Who have experience with yak55m electrical system and to pull everything ou
t and make a new system with US wire and B&C alternator? Please e-mail me d
irectly.
Best regards,
Daniel Ryfa
_________________________________________________________________
Sv=E5rt att h=E5lla kontakten med dina v=E4nner? Skaffa Windows Live Messen
ger!
http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
Message 4
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Brian, are you talking about Phase Separation? When gas that contains
ethanol is cooled, the mixture actually will break down into two
separate layers. The top layer will be gas that loses some of the
ethanol. Which means that the octane rating drops as well as
volatility. The bottom layer will be a water/ethanol rich MIX... Up to
around 75% ethanol.
The scary thing is that a combo ethanol/gas mix can absorb about 46
times more water than gas alone. It would be interesting to run an
experiment and see just would happen in an airplane that increased
altitude and thus slowly cooled the mixture to see if one could actually
stop the engine. I am not positive that would happen, but there is no
question there could be a power change.
The whole thing is moot anyway since the FAA prohibits ANY aircraft from
flying with this mixture. That is what you really need to know Ira.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:40
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
On Nov 26, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Ira Saligman wrote:
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in
> their M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
There are really two problems with ethanol in fuel:
1. It is hygroscopic -- it absorbs water. It will hold water in
suspension so it can't be drained but then will drop the water out of
suspension upon reaching some lower temperature. Most annoying to drain
your sumps, find the fuel clear, take off, and then have to make a
forced landing with a dead engine 'cause your carb and fuel lines are
full of the water that came out of the fuel when the fuel cooled at
altitude.
2. It can attack some materials.
Based on this, I am not a fan of using gasoline that contains any
alcohol.
You can test for alcohol. I made a tester out of an old martini olive
jar. Put a mark at about 10% and another at about 90%. Fill with water
to the 10% mark and then with fuel to the 90% mark. Cap and shake well.
Let it sit until it separates. If the dividing line between the water
and fuel has changed from the 10% mark (it will have dropped) then your
fuel contains alcohol. If not, it is alcohol free and may be used in
your airplane.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 5
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On the same note: I saw a television show that said that "straight gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard any pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
Message 6
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I personally looked at two aircraft where the ethanol fuel destroyed the fuel systems.
Each caused a engine failure with small pieces being stuck in the carburetors
and fuel system. In both cases draining the fuel and starting over did
nothing to help the problem after it started the deterioration of the system.
The EAA did a lot of initial testing of auto fuel and in the approval it only
approves fuel without ethanol. MTBE was approved. A lot of small seals will
swell also. Without knowing what all the rubber and sealants are you should
not use auto fuel. In both cases I viewed in detail the aircraft used only auto
gas and for a extended period of time of 5 to 7 years. One of the aircraft
was never flown again. The other was sold with the idea it needed a complete reseal
on tanks and new fuel system. Neither aircraft were Red Stars.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148682#148682
Message 7
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Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird conference
at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a while back but his
basic answer was that there are only a small number of refineries that
produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US market. It may become a matter
of "how much you willing to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ
to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on the front.
At
OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't think he
was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that "straight gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard any pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 8
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Hi all, could someone kindly tell me what service bulletins 251, 252 & 253BE are
for the yak 18T. Just purchased a 93 model 18T.
Ant.
---------------------------------
Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now.
Message 9
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On Nov 26, 2007, at 2:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> The scary thing is that a combo ethanol/gas mix can absorb about 46
> times more water than gas alone. It would be interesting to run an
> experiment and see just would happen in an airplane that increased
> altitude and thus slowly cooled the mixture to see if one could
> actually
> stop the engine. I am not positive that would happen, but there is no
> question there could be a power change.
You can actually freeze the water out of the gasoline/ethanol
mixture. The water can then freeze in the lines or just make a mess
of things.
>
> The whole thing is moot anyway since the FAA prohibits ANY aircraft
> from
> flying with this mixture. That is what you really need to know Ira.
I know that the FAA prohibits it in production aircraft. I am not
sure that is true for experimental aircraft. Please correct me if my
memory is faulty.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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That is if cost is no object and then if JP4 is available at your local
small town airport.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird
conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a
while back but his basic answer was that there are only a small number
of refineries that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay" over
unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look
at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on
the front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front,
however I don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that "straight
gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard any
pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is nothing
BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira
Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in
their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up
to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp;
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top
money wasters of 2007.
Message 11
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>You can actually freeze the water out of the
>gasoline/ethanol mixture. The water can then
>freeze in the lines or just make a mess of things.
Seems to me we did the same thing as kids with Apple Cider mixed with
some of this and some of that.
You froze it, filtered out the slush and drank it. Commonly known as
"Applejack".
That formula also used to make quite a mess of things... Me included.
Mark Bitterlich
Message 12
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Jim,
The T-34C is different enough to be a completely differernt
aircraft. It just looks like to old T-34.
The T-34C is a fun airplane to fly, I have about 25 hours
(Airworitheness Qualification Test directorate, US Army
flight Test). We used them as chase aircraft for flight
testing UH-60 and AH-64's.
Laterrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer
> was that there are only a small number of refineries that
> produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
> market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing
> to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a
> turbo prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year
> I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't
> think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
> "straight gas" was going to be very hard to find within a
> year. Anyone heard any pros or cons on this issue as
> well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT "gasahol"
> or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ira Saligman Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and
> avgas in their M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may
> include up to 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad
> is a 75% gas with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some light on
> the following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
> affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list
> of 2007's hottest products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aolto
> p00030000000001)
>
Message 13
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Yo Bro! Can you imagine a turbine on the nose of a 50!? Gotta be pushing
>9000 fpm climb rate! That 33 gal internal would be a mere appetizer though!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird conference
at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a while back but
his basic answer was that there are only a small number of refineries that
produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US market. It may become a
matter of "how much you willing to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert
you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on the
front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I
don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that "straight gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard any pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp; (And Get
Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle, List es y
--> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
_____
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001>
products and top
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop000
30000000002> money wasters of 2007.
Message 14
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A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird
conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a
while back but his basic answer was that there are only a small number
of refineries that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay" over
unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look
at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on
the front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front,
however I don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
"straight gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard
any pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is
nothing BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira
Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas
in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include
up to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75%
gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp;
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop0003000000000
1> and top money wasters
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolto
p00030000000002> of 2007.
Message 15
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John,
Now if you say that to some of the guys on this list, they will argue and
belittle you. Just trying to get them to admit the glaring difference between
the Yak 18A and CJ-6 has been impossible.
Did you know that the T-34a/b share the same airfoil NASA 23015 & 4422 (at
the tip).
Does the T-34C have the same airfoil and wing?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 11:13:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fish@avi
ation-tech.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "fish@aviation-tech.com"
<fish@aviation-tech.com>
Jim,
The T-34C is different enough to be a completely differernt
aircraft. It just looks like to old T-34.
The T-34C is a fun airplane to fly, I have about 25 hours
(Airworitheness Qualification Test directorate, US Army
flight Test). We used them as chase aircraft for flight
testing UH-60 and AH-64's.
Laterrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer
> was that there are only a small number of refineries that
> produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
> market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing
> to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a
> turbo prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year
> I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't
> think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
> "straight gas" was going to be very hard to find within a
> year. Anyone heard any pros or cons on this issue as
> well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT "gasahol"
> or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ira Saligman Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and
> avgas in their M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may
> include up to 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad
> is a 75% gas with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some light on
> the following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
> affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list
> of 2007's hottest products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aolto
> p00030000000001)
>
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 16
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Mark,
See "Piper Enforcer"
Roger____________________________________________________
On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> cjpilot710@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird
> conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a
> while back but his basic answer was that there are only a small number
> of refineries that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
> market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay" over
> unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so.
> Look
> at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
> corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on
> the front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front,
> however I don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
> "straight gas"
> was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard
> any pros
> or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is
> nothing BUT
> "gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira
> Saligman
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas
> in their
> M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include
> up to
> 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75%
> gas
> with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
> following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
> affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp;
> (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
> Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
> =====================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> NCID=aoltop0003000000000
> 1> and top money wasters
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?
> NCID=aolto
> p00030000000002> of 2007.
>
>
Message 17
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On Nov 26, 2007, at 4:21 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
Diesels. That means kerosene (Jet-A).
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
It's already been done.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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