Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:13 AM - [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:25 AM - Re: Car Gas (Roger Kemp)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Car Gas (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:54 AM - Re: Car Gas (Tim Gagnon)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: Car Gas (fish@aviation-tech.com)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Car Gas (fish@aviation-tech.com)
6. 09:02 AM - kit p-51 (Brian Lloyd)
7. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Car Gas (Brian Lloyd)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: Car Gas (Roger Kemp)
9. 10:00 AM - Yak fuel drain access (John Graham)
10. 10:47 AM - P-51 with Turbine (netmaster15@juno.com)
11. 11:01 AM - Re: P-51 with Turbine (Brian Lloyd)
12. 11:04 AM - Re: Yak fuel drain access (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 11:35 AM - Re: P-51 with Turbine (Tim Gagnon)
14. 11:39 AM - Re: kit p-51 (Tim Gagnon)
15. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: P-51 with Turbine (Terry Lewis)
16. 11:51 AM - Re: P-51 with Turbine (dontmesswtexas@yahoo.com)
17. 11:53 AM - Re: P-51 with Turbine (netmaster15@juno.com)
18. 12:54 PM - Composite Turbo prop P-51 (viperdoc)
19. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Car Gas (steve and donna hanshew)
20. 02:13 PM - Re: Car Gas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
21. 03:33 PM - Re: P-51 with Turbine (cjpilot710@aol.com)
22. 05:54 PM - Re: Car Gas (N13472@aol.com)
23. 06:52 PM - Cross Country in a Yak (unarmed) (Shinden33)
24. 08:20 PM - Re: Car Gas/turbins (cjpilot710@aol.com)
25. 08:50 PM - Re: Cross Country in a Yak (unarmed) (tjyak50)
26. 09:33 PM - Re: Car Gas/turbins (Roger Kemp)
27. 10:08 PM - Spit Kit (lou dakos)
28. 10:44 PM - Re: Spit Kit (Piper Cherokee)
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| Subject: | [Please Read] What are "The Lists" and Who's This Matt Dralle? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in
the information technology industry for nearly 25 years primarily in computer
networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web
development and CGI design during that time, along with some embedded system
development as well.
I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders
from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft
related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such
as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here
locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers found here include a quad-processor Xeon Linux server for
List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage! This entire system is protected
by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that
assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking
of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One
month last Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone!
I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power
feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer
Center for the Matronics Email Lists. Last year I added another rack to
house the MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first
rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition
of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't
support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is
supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you...
and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Won't you please take a moment to make a Contribution to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
USA
(Please include your email address on the check!)
There are some great gifts available with qualifying Contribution levels too!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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The kit is out there. Last time I looked the all composite kit was $180 K
without the engine and the avionics. Criused at 360 kph (Knots/hr). For
around $280, you could have your very Hot 51 Stang!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Car Gas
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird
conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a
while back but his basic answer was that there are only a small number
of refineries that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay" over
unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look
at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on
the front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front,
however I don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
"straight gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard
any pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is
nothing BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira
Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas
in their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include
up to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75%
gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp;
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop0003000000000
1> and top money wasters
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolto
p00030000000002> of 2007.
Message 2
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You got that right Doc!!!!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Car Gas
Yo Bro! Can you imagine a turbine on the nose of a 50!? Gotta be
pushing >9000 fpm climb rate! That 33 gal internal would be a mere
appetizer though!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 6:21 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Turbines. that means kerosene.
Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a WarBird
conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell guy. This has been a
while back but his basic answer was that there are only a small number
of refineries that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay" over
unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo prop? I bet so. Look
at the T-34C.
Kerosene production facilities already take care of the airlines and
corporate world. It may just a matter of putting that 600hp turbo on
the front. At OSH this year I saw a Extra with one on the front,
however I don't think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
On the same note: I saw a television show that said that "straight
gas"
was going to be very hard to find within a year. Anyone heard any
pros
or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when there is nothing
BUT
"gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ira
Saligman
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and avgas in
their
M14's and the planes run great.
I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may include up
to
10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad is a 75% gas
with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
If you have any experience here can you shed some light on the
following:
Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially affected?
What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
Anything else you find useful.
Ira Saligman
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp;
(And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products and top
money wasters of 2007.
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y
ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 3
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The last Enforcer is in the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson. It is sort of like
the T-34C that has been talked about. There is a lot of that airplane that is
NOT a P-51...
PLUS! Who in the hell would swap that wonderful V-12 for a freaking turbine!
Doc, I think NASA maybe interested in a Yak-50 with a Turbine. We could insert
objects into low earth orbit with the rate of climb!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148838#148838
Message 4
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Group,
I have a spare J-47, think I can fit it into my Yak-52? or
any one have an F-86 that needs an engine they want to sell!
Fly Safe
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Car Gas
> Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> cjpilot710@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer was
> that there are only a small number of refineries that
> produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US market.
> It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay"
> over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo
> prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year I
> saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't think
> he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said
> that "straight gas"
> was going to be very hard to find within a year.
> Anyone heard any pros
> or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when
> there is nothing BUT
> "gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Ira Saligman
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car
> and avgas in their
> M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say
> "may include up to
> 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how
> bad is a 75% gas
> with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some
> light on the
> following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be
> potentially affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
> sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
> -Matt Dralle, List es y --> -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest
> products
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aolto
> p0003000000000 1> and top money wasters
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-mo
> ney?NCID=aolto p00030000000002> of 2007.
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
Message 5
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Roger,
One of the Piper Enforcers is sitting in the Museum storage
lot at Edwards AFB. Last time I saw it was a couple of
months ago, when I was passing through the base.
Laterrrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
> <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
>
> Mark,
>
> See "Piper Enforcer"
>
> Roger____________________________________________________
> On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> > Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> >
> > A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> > Of cjpilot710@aol.com
> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
> >
> > Turbines. that means kerosene.
> >
> > Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> > WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> > guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer
> > was that there are only a small number of refineries
> > that produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
> market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing
> > to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a
> > turbo prop? I bet so. Look
> > at the T-34C.
> >
> > Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> > airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> > putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year
> > I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't
> think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-) >
> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> > Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
> >
> > CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> > <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> > On the same note: I saw a television show that said
> > that "straight gas"
> > was going to be very hard to find within a year.
> > Anyone heard any pros
> > or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when
> > there is nothing BUT
> > "gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On
> > Behalf Of Ira Saligman
> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
> >
> > It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car
> > and avgas in their
> > M14's and the planes run great.
> >
> > I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
> >
> > In many states, including PA all the pumps now say
> > "may include up to
> > 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
> >
> > I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how
> > bad is a 75% gas
> > with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
> >
> > If you have any experience here can you shed some
> > light on the following:
> >
> > Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be
> > potentially affected?
> >
> > What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
> >
> > Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
> >
> > Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
> >
> >
> > Anything else you find useful.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ira Saligman
> >
> > o 610 940 0420
> > c 610 324 5500
> > f 215 243 7699
> >
> > isaligman@Saligman.com
> > <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> sp; (And Get Some
> > AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt
> Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB
> > FORUMS =====================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest
> > products
> > <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?
> > NCID=aoltop0003000000000 1> and top money wasters
> >
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-mo
> > ney? NCID=aolto
> > p00030000000002> of 2007.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
Message 6
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Actually, the real loss was when Gerry Beck died at OSH this past
summer. Gerry was one of the great unknowns of the warbird world,
having completed several of the best restorations around. The
Tuskeegee Airman P-51 was his work. His personal museum was a wonder
with both a flying P-40 AND a flying Zero in it. (Oh, and my RV-4
which I sold him when my wife made me decide between the -4 and the
CJ. His trip with me from Whapeton, ND, to Sacramento to pick up the
RV-4 is one of those two beer stories.)
I never understood why so few people knew about him. Perhaps it was
his quiet, self-effacing manner. If you met him on the flight line
you would most likely find him sans flight-suit and sans-attitude. He
was a lot more like the usual, helpful EAA worker bees than the "mine
are bigger than yours" warbird types.
Regardless (and back to the point), what we have lost is Gerry's work
to create a 100% scale P-51A replica kit. As a result of his work in
restoring several P-51s, Gerry had constructed all the tooling
required to produce P-51A airframes. The airplane he died in was his
first prototype. The kit was going to be 100% accurate to the P-51A
and would be powered by a new old-stock Allison. The only thing non-
original would be avionics and instrumentation. It would fly under an
Experimental/Amateur-built AC which pretty much removes all the
restrictions.
But now it is unlikely to happen. We are a lot poorer as a result.
And maybe it would have been cool with a turbine in the nose too.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 7
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On Nov 27, 2007, at 5:53 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> The last Enforcer is in the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson. It is
> sort of like the T-34C that has been talked about. There is a lot
> of that airplane that is NOT a P-51...
>
> PLUS! Who in the hell would swap that wonderful V-12 for a freaking
> turbine!
Someone who wanted to burn plentiful jet fuel. 100LL is going to go
away. Jet-A will be around for a LONG time.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 8
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John,
I would go for the 86 airframe if you got a J-47 in operating condition!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fish@aviation-tech.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Car Gas
<fish@aviation-tech.com>
Group,
I have a spare J-47, think I can fit it into my Yak-52? or
any one have an F-86 that needs an engine they want to sell!
Fly Safe
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Car Gas
> Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> cjpilot710@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 19:21
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer was
> that there are only a small number of refineries that
> produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US market.
> It may become a matter of "how much you willing to pay"
> over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a turbo
> prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year I
> saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't think
> he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said
> that "straight gas"
> was going to be very hard to find within a year.
> Anyone heard any pros
> or cons on this issue as well? What do we do when
> there is nothing BUT
> "gasahol" or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Ira Saligman
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car
> and avgas in their
> M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say
> "may include up to
> 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how
> bad is a 75% gas
> with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some
> light on the
> following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be
> potentially affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
> sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
> -Matt Dralle, List es y --> -
> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =====================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest
> products
> <http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aolto
> p0003000000000 1> and top money wasters
> <http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-mo
> ney?NCID=aolto p00030000000002> of 2007.
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Yak fuel drain access |
Good morning,
Since I've removed the 15 gallon aux belly fuel tank
from my Yak 52, I am now relegated to using the
standard fuel drain (I had been using an aftermarket
one on the belly tank). Two questions:
1. Is the drain that I have where you have to reach
up into the lower fuselage and turn a handle that has
tooth-like edge and fuel pours out like from a faucet
the standard fuel drain or can I somehow get one where
I can just press a fuel strainer into it and fuel
drains (like on a Cessna)?
2. Presently, a portion of the fuel line is exposed
under the fuselage. It is evident that there was once
some sort of cover plate, perhaps with an access door
for the fuel sump, that went there but it is long
gone. Any idea where I could get one of these?
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Message 10
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| Subject: | P-51 with Turbine |
Y'all correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Piper Enforcer was a
full sized P-51. In 1985 Piper was campaigning the Enforcer around Lat
in America, trying to sell it to various countries as a ground interdict
ion aircraft. I was taxiing out from Eastern's terminal in an L-1011 in
Bogota , Columbia while the Enforcer was trying to leave the Columbian M
ilitary ramp. It was flown by a Piper employee and I was inadvertently b
locking his exit while having to hold til the Columbian National Carrier
preceeded us to the runup block.--By Tower arrangement__(Naturaly HE g
ot first priority on the highest altitude enroute to MIA). So I got a ch
ance for a brief conversation with the Piper employee. Although the cock
pit of the 1011 was higher than the Enforcer, nevertheless, that airplan
e appeared significantly smaller than a full sized P-51,. even allowing
for the fact that I was looking down at it .For a brief few moments I en
vied the guy in the peashooter, then I came to my senses when I realized
HE doesn't have a sweet young thing to bring him a cup of coffee and ru
b his back to perk him up at 0400 .Y'all take care heah!!
Cliff Umscheid
-- Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
It's already been done.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
=97 Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. Click he
re!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mJ8YISdi7yAbfy5LBtAzi
bN7ahJiOpOurIzUbXJKVCve6iH/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:43 PM, netmaster15@juno.com wrote:
> that I was looking down at it .For a brief few moments I envied the
> guy in the peashooter, then I came to my senses when I realized HE
> doesn't have a sweet young thing to bring him a cup of coffee and
> rub his back to perk him up at 0400 .Y'all take care heah!!
>
Cliff, with my stick in my right hand I don't need a sweet young thing.
Oh ... wait ... that came out wrong.
Never mind.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak fuel drain access |
John,
What you have is the stock Yak 52 fuel sump drain. What you need is the two
halves of the cover that went over the stock fuel drain. Check with Roger
Shaddick. Since he installed the tank, he may still have the covers he
removed.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Yak fuel drain access
>
> Good morning,
>
> Since I've removed the 15 gallon aux belly fuel tank
> from my Yak 52, I am now relegated to using the
> standard fuel drain (I had been using an aftermarket
> one on the belly tank). Two questions:
>
> 1. Is the drain that I have where you have to reach
> up into the lower fuselage and turn a handle that has
> tooth-like edge and fuel pours out like from a faucet
> the standard fuel drain or can I somehow get one where
> I can just press a fuel strainer into it and fuel
> drains (like on a Cessna)?
>
> 2. Presently, a portion of the fuel line is exposed
> under the fuselage. It is evident that there was once
> some sort of cover plate, perhaps with an access door
> for the fuel sump, that went there but it is long
> gone. Any idea where I could get one of these?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John P. Graham
> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>
>
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
I think it is actually bigger. I recently took a friend of mine to the Museum and
he took nearly 300 photos of the airplane. He does digital artwork and is working
on a book about the P-51 and all its variants.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148903#148903
Message 14
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Brian,
Becks loss was terrible but the dream of a P-51 did not die with him. There is
work being done in Germany on the Mustang and I think there eventual goal is to
construct a full "scale" Mustang.
I also hope to see Becks dream come true.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148904#148904
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
The Enforcer is well documented, ,along with the history of it's
development, in wikipedia . I accessed this thru google.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@fuse.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 2:35 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: P-51 with Turbine
>
> I think it is actually bigger. I recently took a friend of mine to the
> Museum and he took nearly 300 photos of the airplane. He does digital
> artwork and is working on a book about the P-51 and all its variants.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=148903#148903
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
Yes it was a full size Mustang
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: "netmaster15@juno.com" <netmaster15@juno.com>
To:yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: P-51 with Turbine
Y'all correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the Piper Enfor= cer was a full
sized P-51. In 1985 Piper was campaigning the Enfor= cer around Latin America,
trying to sell it to various countries as a gr= ound interdiction aircraft.
I was taxiing out from Eastern's terminal in= an L-1011 in Bogota, Columbia while
the Enforcer was trying to le= ave the Columbian Military ramp. It was flown
by a Piper employee and I = was inadvertently blocking his exit while having
to hold til the Columbi= an National Carrier preceeded us to the runup block.--By
Tower arr= angement__(Naturaly HE got first priority on the highest altitude
enrout= e to MIA). So I got a chance for a brief conversation with the Piper
emp= loyee. Although the cockpit of the 1011 was higher than the Enforcer,
ne= vertheless, that airplane appeared significantly smaller than a full siz=
ed P-51,. even allowing for the fact that I was looking down at it= .For a brief
few moments I envied the guy in the peashooter, then I came= to my senses
when I realized HE doesn't have a sweet young thing to bri= ng him a cup of coffee
and rub his back to perk him up at 0400.Y'a= ll take care heah!!
Cliff Umscheid
-- Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wro= te:
On Nov 26, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CI= V Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> --> Yak-= List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
>= ; Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A= P-51 with a turbine. Interesting thought.
It's already bee= n done.
--
Brian Lloyd  = ; = ;3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN = 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916= .367.2131 (voice) = +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases= my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
=97 Antoine de Saint-= Exup=E9ry
PGP key ID: &= nbsp;12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 = ========================= =========================
nbsp;(And Get Some AWESOME FRE= = -Matt Dralle, List Admin= =========================
;- The Yak-List Email Forum -
__________________________= ___________________________________
Online Stock Trading - Straightforward pricing. Powerful tools. C
lick here! <http://thirdpartyoffer
s.juno.com/TGL2122/fc/Ioyw6i3mJ8YISdi7yAbfy5LBtAzibN7ahJiOpOurIzUbXJKVCv
e6iH/>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
Brian, Your Freudian slip is on the record ; how many Gs ?does it take
to choke a chicken ?
Best Regards,
Cliff
-- Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:43 PM, netmaster15@juno.com wrote:
> that I was looking down at it .For a brief few moments I envied the
> guy in the peashooter, then I came to my senses when I realized HE
> doesn't have a sweet young thing to bring him a cup of coffee and
> rub his back to perk him up at 0400 .Y'all take care heah!!
>
Cliff, with my stick in my right hand I don't need a sweet young thing.
Oh ... wait ... that came out wrong.
Never mind.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
_____________________________________________________________
Discount Online Trading - Click Now!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3mJ8YXjqkGm03atpiY1Li4
nrgVE1Prjetd4V1wZnK65frVov/
Message 18
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| Subject: | Composite Turbo prop P-51 |
For the discriminating P-51 lover, here is the website for the Turbo prop
all composite P-51. Looks great all except the nose!
http://cameronaircraft.com/index.html
Doc
Message 19
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I saw the Enforcer in action in 1981 (thereabouts) at Fort Bragg, when the
Air Force was about ready to cancel the A-10 - Yet again. It was based out
of the old SF hangar next to 18th AVN at Simmons Army Airfield. Went back
and forth to the range (Out near SFQC Camp at Camp Mackall) about a month
and was painted in the Nam' vintage camo job. Really neat airplane. I guess
the Air Force couldn't stomach the fact of Army pilots flying a Mustang
(again), so guess what? The Warthog came off the chopping block. Now, that's
just a guess.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Car Gas
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2007, at 5:53 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
>>
>> The last Enforcer is in the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson. It is sort
>> of like the T-34C that has been talked about. There is a lot of that
>> airplane that is NOT a P-51...
>>
>> PLUS! Who in the hell would swap that wonderful V-12 for a freaking
>> turbine!
>
> Someone who wanted to burn plentiful jet fuel. 100LL is going to go away.
> Jet-A will be around for a LONG time.
>
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
Interestingly enouhg Pappy, I have over 800 hours in A & B models...
Mostly B. You won't get any argument out of me. (None in Charlie's
though... I seem to remember some initial spin recovery problems with
the C, that required them to add ventral fins)
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 0:00
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
John,
Now if you say that to some of the guys on this list, they will argue
and belittle you. Just trying to get them to admit the glaring
difference between the Yak 18A and CJ-6 has been impossible.
Did you know that the T-34a/b share the same airfoil NASA 23015 & 4422
(at the tip).
Does the T-34C have the same airfoil and wing?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/26/2007 11:13:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
fish@aviation-tech.com writes:
<fish@aviation-tech.com>
Jim,
The T-34C is different enough to be a completely differernt
aircraft. It just looks like to old T-34.
The T-34C is a fun airplane to fly, I have about 25 hours
(Airworitheness Qualification Test directorate, US Army
flight Test). We used them as chase aircraft for flight
testing UH-60 and AH-64's.
Laterrr
John Fischer
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Car Gas
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:21:14 EST
> Turbines. that means kerosene.
>
> Some years ago at OSH that question was brought up at a
> WarBird conference at OSH. The speaker then was a Shell
> guy. This has been a while back but his basic answer
> was that there are only a small number of refineries that
> produce the total aviation (100LL) fuel for the US
> market. It may become a matter of "how much you willing
> to pay" over unavailability. Can you covert you CJ to a
> turbo prop? I bet so. Look at the T-34C.
>
> Kerosene production facilities already take care of the
> airlines and corporate world. It may just a matter of
> putting that 600hp turbo on the front. At OSH this year
> I saw a Extra with one on the front, however I don't
> think he was worried about availability of 110LL. :-)
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2007 6:49:34 P.M. Eastern
> Standard Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV
> Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> On the same note: I saw a television show that said that
> "straight gas" was going to be very hard to find within a
> year. Anyone heard any pros or cons on this issue as
> well? What do we do when there is nothing BUT "gasahol"
> or whatever you want to call it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Ira Saligman Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 11:43
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Car Gas
>
> It seems that a number of folks use a mixture of car and
> avgas in their M14's and the planes run great.
>
> I am wondering how bad ethanol really is.
>
> In many states, including PA all the pumps now say "may
> include up to 10% ethanol" (sometimes 15%)
>
> I understand that alcohol is bad for rubber but how bad
> is a 75% gas with a 10% mixture (75% car gas, 25% avgas)
>
> If you have any experience here can you shed some light on
> the following:
>
> Which seals/Diaphragms or other parts will be potentially
> affected?
>
> What ratios do you mix the two fuels?
>
> Is there ethanol in the gas you use?
>
> Have you seen any negative effects from Ethanol?
>
>
> Anything else you find useful.
>
>
>
> Ira Saligman
>
> o 610 940 0420
> c 610 324 5500
> f 215 243 7699
>
> isaligman@Saligman.com <mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************************************Check out AOL's list
> of 2007's hottest products.
> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aolto
> p00030000000001)
> sp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE find you for
-Matt Dralle, List es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
=====================
________________________________
Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the hottest products
<http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop0003000000000
1> and top money wasters
<http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aolto
p00030000000002> of 2007.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: P-51 with Turbine |
Go to the web page below. Scroll down to the article by Bud Evans.
Not many people know Bud Evans but he was a test pilot for many years. He
did some of the test work on the Piper Enforcer. At the web site is a very
interesting account of one such flight of the Enforcer.
_www.vacwarbirds.org/oldnewsletters/0608unscramble.pdf_
(http://www.vacwarbirds.org/oldnewsletters/0608unscramble.pdf)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
PS Maybe I'll think twice about the turbo prop on the CJ ;-)
In a message dated 11/27/2007 2:54:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
netmaster15@juno.com writes:
Brian, Your Freudian slip is on the record ; how many Gs ?does it take to
choke a chicken ?
Best Regards,
Cliff
-- Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
On Nov 27, 2007, at 6:43 PM, netmaster15@juno.com wrote:
> that I was looking down at it .For a brief few moments I envied the
> guy in the peashooter, then I came to my senses when I realized HE
> doesn't have a sweet young thing to bring him a cup of coffee and
> rub his back to perk him up at 0400 .Y'all take care heah!!
>
Cliff, with my stick in my right hand I don't need a sweet young thing.
Oh ... wait ... that came out wrong.
Never mind.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
========================nbsp; (And Get Some
-Matt Dralle======================== - The Yak-List
Em========================= &n==========================================
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Message 22
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In a message dated 11/26/2007 9:08:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
Does the T-34C have the same airfoil and wing?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Speaking of fun turbine air planes I have a neighbor that has a L-17
(Navion) with the Walter 750 Hp on
the nose. Although it looks strange the distances from the spar to the tip
of the spinner is the same as
spar to tip of the tail.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
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| Subject: | Cross Country in a Yak (unarmed) |
Hi all,
I began the trek on Monday. Stayed in Parker AZ last night. Stopped in to
see Bill Blackwell today then ended up in Dalhart TX (two unrelated
incidents of course). Great day for flying. At one point Mr. Garmin (or
Blue Mountain) was telling me I had a 50kt tailwind @ 11.5K and was
indicating 181 kts groundspeed. This was of course the peak. Avg on the
day was ~160kts GS. Shooting for Louisville tomorrow.
Blue Skies
S
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Car Gas/turbins |
It is interesting how changing an aircraft shape, even slightly, can big
effects on its handling or even its controllability. Almost 20 years ago, I was
playing at being a designer. I was working on an idea for a composite 80%
scale Spitfire. When the weight/balance didn't come out (very tail heavy) I
thought about extending the nose (along with the engine and anything else I
could). When I looked at it, the profile just didn't "right". I asked Bill
Welsh (a very respected aero dynamist at the time now passed away) to look at
it. He came back with the definitive answer. DON'T DO IT! The extended nose
would have turn the "normally docile" Spitfire into a uncontrollable night
mare. For much the same reason a lot of float planes have extra fins on the
tail, to offset the area added ahead of the center of pressure.
I willing to bet that the lighter weight turbine engine would need to be
moved forward to help weight and balance, and a some point you will increase the
arm of the area ahead of the center of pressure. Hence the ventral fin on
the T-34C as compared to the As&Bs. How this would effect the CJ I don't
know. Most CJ are fairly nose heavy with all the radios removed from aft of the
rear cockpit and normally ballast is required in the tail. It might be fun
to run the numbers, draw up a profile, to see what she might look like. In
2001 when Bushi was asked by one of the AZ guys about that, he told them it
would be better to design a whole new airplane. Still - - - - -
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 11/27/2007 8:56:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
N13472@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 11/26/2007 9:08:44 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
Does the T-34C have the same airfoil and wing?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Speaking of fun turbine air planes I have a neighbor that has a L-17
(Navion) with the Walter 750 Hp on
the nose. Although it looks strange the distances from the spar to the tip
of the spinner is the same as
spar to tip of the tail.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
____________________________________
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| Subject: | Re: Cross Country in a Yak (unarmed) |
Go Scott Go!
A long X-country in a Yak or any airplane is a life experience.
Glad you stopped into Yak Mecca (Phoenix DVT with 30 or so Yaks and Nanchangs).
P.S. FIND A GRASS STRIP~!
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=149009#149009
Message 26
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. In 2001 when Bushi was asked by one of the AZ guys about that, he told
them it would be better to design a whole new airplane. Still - - - - -
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Hmmm..Design a whole new airplane..novel idea!
http://www.aero-concept.com/images/18A.jpg
:>0 ;>))
Doc
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JIm a mob here in Australia have done a bloody beautiful job of a
spitfire kit have a look here www.supermarineaircraft.com
Lou
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Please un-subscribe pipercherokee@hotmail.com from your mailing list. Thank
you for past service however at the moment I have a problme with my comput
er filling all your emails into my inbox so dont send anything further unti
l further nice thank you
From: ldakos@bigpond.net.auTo: yak-list@matronics.comSubject: Yak-List: Spi
t KitDate: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:07:42 +1100
JIm a mob here in Australia have done a bloody beautiful job of a spitfire
kit have a look here www.supermarineaircraft.com
Lou
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