Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:02 AM - OSH 2008 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
2. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Walter Lannon)
3. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Roger Kemp)
4. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Roger Kemp)
5. 01:59 PM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Jan Mevis)
7. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes (Jan Mevis)
8. 04:04 PM - RPA store (skidmk)
9. 04:17 PM - Heating (Herb Coussons)
10. 06:43 PM - Re: RPA store (Roger Kemp)
11. 08:14 PM - Re: Heating (Herb Coussons)
Message 1
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Troops,
A lot of you guys are e-mailing me about where and what's for OSH 2008.
The schedule is forming up still, so some details are not finished but let
me give you some basic stuff so far.
>From Friday July 25 to Monday July 28.
We will be at an airport yet to be determined. One of our committee members
is checking several spots and needs to make sure a numbers of things are
known before RPA descends on them. Fuel trucks, parking, FBO facilities, hotel
room available with discounts, etc etc. There no plans to use MTW (to small
and crowded now) As soon as we make a decision on it we'll let you know.
>From Monday July 28 to Saturday August 2.
RPA will make an OSH airshow arrival in the afternoon. Well will be flying
in the airshow on Wednesday July 30, Friday 31, and Saturday August 2. We
might fly in the airshow on Tuesday July 29.
RPA has reserved a banquet hall for the evening of August 1. There are
things planned for just about each day (like a Pig Roast) but some of still need
confirmation and costs need to be determined.
We are planning on making the University of Wisconsin dorms our lodging
point. We'll be sitting it up so that we're all together (same floor, same
building). If you want to stay somewhere else you can but, transport is up to
you. More about that later.
I hope that helps some of you. I am hoping that we'll have much of this
done before Christmas and some details available.
Also we are looking for sponsors to help defray some of the costs. If you
know of some, send them our way cause we have deal for them.
I believe you going to have a great time and it will be the best OSH ever.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
OSH 50 committee
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Jan;
Your procedure sounds just fine to me. It is in accordance with the
Maintenance Manual procedures as I recall them.
I would suggest though that on final approach when closing the throttle it
would be wise to go to fine pitch..
This is standard procedure to ensure full power is immediately available for
an emergency go around. Probably quite unnecessary in a Yak 50 with a power
to weight ratio around 5 lb/HP but
good to have standard procedures ingrained for when you are flying something
else.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
> Mark and Walt,
>
> Now I am puzzled about the proper procedures. I would be obliged if you
> and
> others could correct me about the following procedure (my fellow Yak 52
> owners do this more or less in the same way):
>
> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I personally
> turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4 times, pull the
> prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3 times; the engine
> usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades (three-bladed prop).
>
> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
> completely to the front),
>
> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control very
> slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full fine) until
> the proper temperatures are reached.
>
> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
> the
> throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50 rolls
> too
> fast
>
> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
> temperatures
> (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle up to 70 % for
> the
> magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by pulling back and
> forth
> the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with the Extra 300 that I may
> fly,
> the owner asked me to do this prop checks very quickly because they only
> have to take away the air bubbles in the governor; he got this advise when
> he bought his Extra 300 new from the factory; I suppose this makes sense
> for
> his specific governor mechanism).
>
> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
> the
> stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the plane
> gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower the
> nose,
> gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM to 82 % but
> leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always have the
> prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75 throttle
> or
> 60/65.
>
> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the throttle
> (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed (145 to 150
> km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for the numbers, and
> just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely idle.
>
> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
> again
> at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil for 25
> seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the magneto's
> and
> immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my experience this helps to
> avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've seen this on several engines).
>
> Jan Mevis
> YK50 RA2005K
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Walt,
The YAK50 manual calls for 70% and 400 mmHg on final. I personally tend to descend
with the pitch set at 80%. Not necessarily for go around but for a "speed
brake"! She will jump from 150 Kilo/sec to 170 kps in a heart beat if you lower
the alpha by letting the nose drop during final turn. If I have to do a go round,
80% and 850 mmHG is more than enough power with the risk of torque rolling
her a 100% and 850 mmHG. She will lift the left main off the ground if you
push it suddenly for sure.
For the start I pull 14 blades with the intake open. If there is sluggish flow
of oil out of the intake drain, I will prime with 4-6 strokes looking for fuel
to lfow out of the intake. I then pull another 8-12 and wait until the oil stops
draining out of the intake. After that, I close the intake, give it a couple
of strokes of prime, and pull 4 blades stopping on the compression. Start is
generally one blade tic to fire off. Idle is at 40% until oil at 40 C and CHT
@ 140-150 C. Runup is with the pitch full fine (forward) and at 70% with the
mag check first then cycle the prop 3 times and run the left to right cockpit
check. I'm ready to go aviating then.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2007 12:34 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
>
>Jan;
>
>Your procedure sounds just fine to me. It is in accordance with the
>Maintenance Manual procedures as I recall them.
>I would suggest though that on final approach when closing the throttle it
>would be wise to go to fine pitch..
>This is standard procedure to ensure full power is immediately available for
>an emergency go around. Probably quite unnecessary in a Yak 50 with a power
>to weight ratio around 5 lb/HP but
>good to have standard procedures ingrained for when you are flying something
>else.
>
>Cheers;
>Walt
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:35 PM
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
>
>>
>> Mark and Walt,
>>
>> Now I am puzzled about the proper procedures. I would be obliged if you
>> and
>> others could correct me about the following procedure (my fellow Yak 52
>> owners do this more or less in the same way):
>>
>> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
>> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I personally
>> turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4 times, pull the
>> prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3 times; the engine
>> usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades (three-bladed prop).
>>
>> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
>> completely to the front),
>>
>> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control very
>> slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full fine) until
>> the proper temperatures are reached.
>>
>> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
>> the
>> throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50 rolls
>> too
>> fast
>>
>> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
>> temperatures
>> (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle up to 70 % for
>> the
>> magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by pulling back and
>> forth
>> the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with the Extra 300 that I may
>> fly,
>> the owner asked me to do this prop checks very quickly because they only
>> have to take away the air bubbles in the governor; he got this advise when
>> he bought his Extra 300 new from the factory; I suppose this makes sense
>> for
>> his specific governor mechanism).
>>
>> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
>> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
>> the
>> stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the plane
>> gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower the
>> nose,
>> gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM to 82 % but
>> leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always have the
>> prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75 throttle
>> or
>> 60/65.
>>
>> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the throttle
>> (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed (145 to 150
>> km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for the numbers, and
>> just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely idle.
>>
>> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
>> again
>> at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil for 25
>> seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the magneto's
>> and
>> immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my experience this helps to
>> avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've seen this on several engines).
>>
>> Jan Mevis
>> YK50 RA2005K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Walt,
The YAK50 manual calls for 70% and 400 mmHg on final. I personally tend to descend
with the pitch set at 80%. Not necessarily for go around but for a "speed
brake"! She will jump from 150 Kilo/sec to 170 kps in a heart beat if you lower
the alpha by letting the nose drop during final turn. If I have to do a go round,
80% and 850 mmHG is more than enough power with the risk of torque rolling
her a 100% and 850 mmHG. She will lift the left main off the ground if you
push it suddenly for sure.
For the start I pull 14 blades with the intake open. If there is sluggish flow
of oil out of the intake drain, I will prime with 4-6 strokes looking for fuel
to lfow out of the intake. I then pull another 8-12 and wait until the oil stops
draining out of the intake. After that, I close the intake, give it a couple
of strokes of prime, and pull 4 blades stopping on the compression. Start is
generally one blade tic to fire off. Idle is at 40% until oil at 40 C and CHT
@ 140-150 C. Runup is with the pitch full fine (forward) and at 70% with the
mag check first then cycle the prop 3 times and run the left to right cockpit
check. I'm ready to go aviating then.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
>Sent: Dec 4, 2007 12:34 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
>
>Jan;
>
>Your procedure sounds just fine to me. It is in accordance with the
>Maintenance Manual procedures as I recall them.
>I would suggest though that on final approach when closing the throttle it
>would be wise to go to fine pitch..
>This is standard procedure to ensure full power is immediately available for
>an emergency go around. Probably quite unnecessary in a Yak 50 with a power
>to weight ratio around 5 lb/HP but
>good to have standard procedures ingrained for when you are flying something
>else.
>
>Cheers;
>Walt
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:35 PM
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
>
>>
>> Mark and Walt,
>>
>> Now I am puzzled about the proper procedures. I would be obliged if you
>> and
>> others could correct me about the following procedure (my fellow Yak 52
>> owners do this more or less in the same way):
>>
>> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
>> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I personally
>> turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4 times, pull the
>> prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3 times; the engine
>> usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades (three-bladed prop).
>>
>> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
>> completely to the front),
>>
>> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control very
>> slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full fine) until
>> the proper temperatures are reached.
>>
>> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
>> the
>> throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50 rolls
>> too
>> fast
>>
>> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
>> temperatures
>> (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle up to 70 % for
>> the
>> magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by pulling back and
>> forth
>> the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with the Extra 300 that I may
>> fly,
>> the owner asked me to do this prop checks very quickly because they only
>> have to take away the air bubbles in the governor; he got this advise when
>> he bought his Extra 300 new from the factory; I suppose this makes sense
>> for
>> his specific governor mechanism).
>>
>> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
>> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
>> the
>> stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the plane
>> gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower the
>> nose,
>> gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM to 82 % but
>> leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always have the
>> prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75 throttle
>> or
>> 60/65.
>>
>> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the throttle
>> (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed (145 to 150
>> km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for the numbers, and
>> just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely idle.
>>
>> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
>> again
>> at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil for 25
>> seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the magneto's
>> and
>> immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my experience this helps to
>> avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've seen this on several engines).
>>
>> Jan Mevis
>> YK50 RA2005K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Hi Jan,
>1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
"spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades
(three-bladed prop).
I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to that
though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed on the
exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put one
somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets that
cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank itself.
Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it simply
doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than the 52
... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it through
a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty much
the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
>2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
completely to the front),
Yep.
>3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
Ok.
>4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50
rolls too fast
Ok
5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle
up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by
pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop checks
very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in the
governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from the
factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
mechanism).
The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to set
a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat three
times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say that
I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am not
sure.
> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the
plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower
the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM
to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75
throttle or 60/65.
Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously works
and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you just
mentioned.
>7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
(145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely
idle.
When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only put
it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach speed.
THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
completely prepared for a go around.
>8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil
for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
seen this on several engines).
I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that there
is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents.
Mark
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Thanks, Walt !
I used to put full fine with the 2-bladed prop. With My 3-bladed MT-prop,
it's somewhat easier to have 70 %, but I'll reconsider it !,
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: dinsdag 4 december 2007 19:34
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
Jan;
Your procedure sounds just fine to me. It is in accordance with the
Maintenance Manual procedures as I recall them.
I would suggest though that on final approach when closing the throttle it
would be wise to go to fine pitch..
This is standard procedure to ensure full power is immediately available for
an emergency go around. Probably quite unnecessary in a Yak 50 with a power
to weight ratio around 5 lb/HP but
good to have standard procedures ingrained for when you are flying something
else.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 11:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
>
> Mark and Walt,
>
> Now I am puzzled about the proper procedures. I would be obliged if you
> and
> others could correct me about the following procedure (my fellow Yak 52
> owners do this more or less in the same way):
>
> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I personally
> turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4 times, pull the
> prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3 times; the engine
> usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades (three-bladed prop).
>
> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
> completely to the front),
>
> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control very
> slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full fine) until
> the proper temperatures are reached.
>
> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
> the
> throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50 rolls
> too
> fast
>
> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
> temperatures
> (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle up to 70 % for
> the
> magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by pulling back and
> forth
> the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with the Extra 300 that I may
> fly,
> the owner asked me to do this prop checks very quickly because they only
> have to take away the air bubbles in the governor; he got this advise when
> he bought his Extra 300 new from the factory; I suppose this makes sense
> for
> his specific governor mechanism).
>
> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
> the
> stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the plane
> gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower the
> nose,
> gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM to 82 % but
> leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always have the
> prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75 throttle
> or
> 60/65.
>
> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the throttle
> (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed (145 to 150
> km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for the numbers, and
> just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely idle.
>
> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
> again
> at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil for 25
> seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the magneto's
> and
> immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my experience this helps to
> avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've seen this on several engines).
>
> Jan Mevis
> YK50 RA2005K
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes |
Thanks Mark!
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: dinsdag 4 december 2007 22:57
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Throttle setting at higher cruising altitudes
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Hi Jan,
>1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
"spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four blades
(three-bladed prop).
I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to that
though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed on the
exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put one
somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets that
cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank itself.
Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it simply
doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than the 52
... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it through
a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty much
the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
>2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
completely to the front),
Yep.
>3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
Ok.
>4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but reducing
the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50
rolls too fast
Ok
5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle
up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control by
pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop checks
very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in the
governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from the
factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
mechanism).
The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to set
a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat three
times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say that
I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am not
sure.
> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance the
throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't push
the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that the
plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I lower
the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM
to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 % prop, 75
throttle or 60/65.
Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously works
and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you just
mentioned.
>7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
(145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle completely
idle.
When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only put
it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach speed.
THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
completely prepared for a go around.
>8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop governor
again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the oil
for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
seen this on several engines).
I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that there
is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents.
Mark
Message 8
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Hi all,,, I just received my order from the RPA store, some shirts, patches, prop
flag, and pitot flag. If you haven't bought this stuff b4,, good time for
christmas stuff... and support or our association.
cheers
Mike "SKIDMK" Bourget
C-FXMI
CJ
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150467#150467
Message 9
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i have added the heat pads to the Yak 52 and the 55. The company is
EZ Heat in Chetek, WI http://www.e-zheat.com/
The model 540 is a 2 pad system for the oil tank and the model ?154 is
for the sump. With both plugged in and a blanket over the cowl - I
had to move the 55 about 100NM flight yesterday. Surface temp 7
degrees F with wind blowing 15 gusts 24 and light snow. I preped the
plane in the hanger ( the cowl and the engine itself was quite warm)
and rolled her out then cranked within 5 mins. Within 5-10 mins the
CHTs were 180 degress and the oil temp was 60 degrees. The pads
really work well and with the heat they put out at a constant rate I
would be concerned about condensation. I am very happy with the
units. If I keep the Wilga they will go on there also.
The cost was about 280$ for the pads.
Herb
On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Hi Jan,
>
>> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small electrical
> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
> personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
> times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
> times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four
> blades
> (three-bladed prop).
>
> I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
> device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
> serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to
> that
> though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed on
> the
> exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
> but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
> pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put one
> somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets
> that
> cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank
> itself.
>
>
> Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it
> simply
> doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
> intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than the
> 52
> ... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
> then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
> thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
> preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it
> through
> a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
> again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty
> much
> the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
> When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
> tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
>
>> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control lever
> completely to the front),
>
> Yep.
>
>
>> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
> very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
> fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
>
> Ok.
>
>> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but
>> reducing
> the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak 50
> rolls too fast
>
> Ok
>
> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
> temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then throttle
> up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor control
> by
> pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
> the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop
> checks
> very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in
> the
> governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from the
> factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
> mechanism).
>
> The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to
> set
> a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
> holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat three
> times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say
> that
> I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
> itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am not
> sure.
>
>> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance
>> the
> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't
> push
> the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so that
> the
> plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I
> lower
> the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the RPM
> to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
> have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 %
> prop, 75
> throttle or 60/65.
>
> Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
> going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously
> works
> and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you
> just
> mentioned.
>
>
>> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
> throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
> (145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
> the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle
> completely
> idle.
>
> When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only put
> it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach
> speed.
> THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
> from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
> completely prepared for a go around.
>
>> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop
>> governor
> again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the
> oil
> for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
> magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
> experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
> seen this on several engines).
>
> I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
> believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that
> there
> is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents.
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 10
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You can renew your membership there also.
And speaking of membership perks, when is the winter edition of the RPA Red
ALERT coming in the mail?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skidmk
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RPA store
Hi all,,, I just received my order from the RPA store, some shirts, patches,
prop flag, and pitot flag. If you haven't bought this stuff b4,, good time
for christmas stuff... and support or our association.
cheers
Mike "SKIDMK" Bourget
C-FXMI
CJ
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=150467#150467
Message 11
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|
I meant to say "not concerned about condensation"
herb
On Dec 4, 2007, at 6:14 PM, Herb Coussons wrote:
> i have added the heat pads to the Yak 52 and the 55. The company is
> EZ Heat in Chetek, WI http://www.e-zheat.com/
> The model 540 is a 2 pad system for the oil tank and the model ?154
> is for the sump. With both plugged in and a blanket over the cowl -
> I had to move the 55 about 100NM flight yesterday. Surface temp 7
> degrees F with wind blowing 15 gusts 24 and light snow. I preped
> the plane in the hanger ( the cowl and the engine itself was quite
> warm) and rolled her out then cranked within 5 mins. Within 5-10
> mins the CHTs were 180 degress and the oil temp was 60 degrees. The
> pads really work well and with the heat they put out at a constant
> rate I would be concerned about condensation. I am very happy with
> the units. If I keep the Wilga they will go on there also.
>
> The cost was about 280$ for the pads.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2007, at 3:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Hi Jan,
>>
>>> 1. before startup, we eventually heat the oil with a small
>>> electrical
>> "spiral" device (the things used for heating water in a cup). I
>> personally turn the prop AT LEAST 25 blades; prime left and right 4
>> times, pull the prop 5 or 6 blades; prime again the cylinders 2 to 3
>> times; the engine usually fires after I saw moving three to four
>> blades
>> (three-bladed prop).
>>
>> I've read some negative comments about directly heating oil with a
>> device that actually goes into the oil itself to heat it. As memory
>> serves, it had something to do with condensation. I can't swear to
>> that
>> though! Personally I use electric heating "pads" that are placed
>> on the
>> exterior of the oil tank and heat the whole tank. I do not have one,
>> but if you were to do this the RIGHT way, you'd also add one of these
>> pads to the engine oil sump, and if you were REALLY concerned, put
>> one
>> somehow on the oil cooler. In North Carolina it simply never gets
>> that
>> cold really, so I have been fine with just heating the oil tank
>> itself.
>>
>>
>> Oil in cylinders when it is cold is a serious problem in that it
>> simply
>> doesn't want to come out very easily. Especially true as well in the
>> intake tubes. This seems to be more of a problem in the 50 than
>> the 52
>> ... Due to tilt? Maybe. Anyway, I usually pull about 4-5 blades and
>> then prime a little simply because the gas tends to mix with the oil,
>> thin it and then allow it to drain out easier. This is a personal
>> preference and is not based on any expert input. I then pull it
>> through
>> a whomp more times (as you suggested) then prime the crap out of it
>> again, pull it through another couple of blades and start. Pretty
>> much
>> the same sequence as yourself. I have an intake drain kit installed.
>> When I prime the engine I want to see the extra fuel come out of that
>> tube. Having that makes it pretty much impossible to over-prime.
>>
>>> 2. at startup, the prop control is fully fine (governor control
>>> lever
>> completely to the front),
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>>
>>> 3. when engine started, I let it run at 42 % (with throttle control
>> very slowly up until 40 or 42 % is reached, prop all this time full
>> fine) until the proper temperatures are reached.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>>> 4. then I taxi to the holding point, prop still full fine, but
>>> reducing
>> the throttle a lot less than 40 %,just above idle, otherwise my Yak
>> 50
>> rolls too fast
>>
>> Ok
>>
>> 5. run-up tests: check first if the engine still has the proper
>> temperatures (oil above 40 degrees, CHT at 150 degrees); then
>> throttle
>> up to 70 % for the magneto checks, and then 3 times governor
>> control by
>> pulling back and forth the prop lever; not too fast, but firmly (with
>> the Extra 300 that I may fly, the owner asked me to do this prop
>> checks
>> very quickly because they only have to take away the air bubbles in
>> the
>> governor; he got this advise when he bought his Extra 300 new from
>> the
>> factory; I suppose this makes sense for his specific governor
>> mechanism).
>>
>> The prop check for the YAK aircraft is different. They want you to
>> set
>> a certain RPM and then pull the prop lever full aft and see that it
>> holds a certain RPM. It is not a cycle back and forward, repeat
>> three
>> times deal, but I can not address which way is better. I will say
>> that
>> I think you should hold it back to try and get warm oil into the prop
>> itself and that quick cycling MAY not do that. Again, I really am
>> not
>> sure.
>>
>>> 6. at take-off, my prop control is full fine, and I SLOWLY advance
>>> the
>> throttle to full power, so having the Yak 50 roll smoothly. I don't
>> push
>> the stick forward, but keep it in the middle, slightly back, so
>> that the
>> plane gets airborne from the three wheels at the same time. Then I
>> lower
>> the nose, gear up, let speed go up; when at 500 feet, I reduce the
>> RPM
>> to 82 % but leave the throttle full open. In cruise flight, I always
>> have the prop/throttle settings slightly "oversquare" i.e. 70 %
>> prop, 75
>> throttle or 60/65.
>>
>> Each person has his or her own method for the above. I really am not
>> going to say "right or wrong" with anything you say. It obviously
>> works
>> and I do much the same myself. Especially with the RPM method you
>> just
>> mentioned.
>>
>>
>>> 7. in final approach, I have the prop control at 70 % and use the
>> throttle (and nose position and trim) to establish the correct speed
>> (145 to 150 km/h, is what I need for a good three-pointer). I aim for
>> the numbers, and just above the numbers, I have the throttle
>> completely
>> idle.
>>
>> When landing, I always have the prop control full forward. I only
>> put
>> it there after the gear is down and I am slowed to near approach
>> speed.
>> THEN I push the prop full forward. Doing it that way keeps the prop
>> from reversing the load on the thrust bearing, and also has me
>> completely prepared for a go around.
>>
>>> 8. for run-down, I advance the throttle a bit, I put the prop
>>> governor
>> again at fully fine, and the throttle to 65 %, have it scavenge the
>> oil
>> for 25 seconds, then I pull back the throttle to 43 %, shut down the
>> magneto's and immediately I advance the throttle fully. (in my
>> experience this helps to avoid big flames at the exhaust pipes; I've
>> seen this on several engines).
>>
>> I do much the same, but reduce to idle before killing the mags... I
>> believe your methods are so close to what the book calls for that
>> there
>> is not reason to concern yourself in any way Jan. Just my 2 cents.
>> -= -- Please Support Your Lists (And
>> Get -Matt Dralle, List - The
>> Yak-List --> &n====================
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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