Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:02 AM - Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. (fougapilot)
2. 04:43 AM - Re: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. (Hans Oortman)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. (Roger Kemp)
4. 05:38 AM - Re: Copied from M14 List (M14 on e bay) (N395V)
5. 06:17 AM - intercom (Don Milbourn)
6. 07:56 AM - Operating Limitations, FSDOs and Bahamas (Drew)
7. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. (Roger Kemp)
8. 08:05 AM - Re: intercom (Cliff Coy)
9. 08:16 AM - Re: intercom (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: intercom (Kregg Victory)
11. 08:32 AM - Typhoon C-130 pics (Herb Coussons)
12. 08:52 AM - Re: Typhoon C-130 pics (kp)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: Typhoon C-130 pics (kp)
14. 12:30 PM - SV: intercom (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_Dale?=)
15. 03:35 PM - Pre-OSH Activities at ETB (Craig Payne)
16. 03:43 PM - SNF Update (Craig Payne)
17. 10:32 PM - 8130.2F Operating Limitations (Jon Boede)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. |
N13472(at)aol.com wrote:
> Why would the frogs use a US aircraft to film there new toy???????
Tom,
By Frogs, I assume you are talking about the French. However, France is NOT part
of the EuroFighter. Instead, the chose to invest a ton of $$ in the Rafale.
France is very peculiar and must have total control over it's weapons. The Eurofighter
is mainly a Brit / Germany product but should be flown by many other
countries.
Saw it fly this year at Le Bourget airshow. WOW what an airplane. No offense, but
the "New" F16 was there also, no contest.
Cheers,
D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151634#151634
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. |
Agreed: What a plane....completely useless in the present arena of ground
support. Such that the Brits have 50 on sale because they cannot use them in
Afghanistan.
The Eurofighter was designed in the eighties when the assumption still
existed that air combat with a presumed ennemy was the most important
feature for a fighter, that is the reason why they have the canards.
As we have learned this is not the case any more. Ground support as we know
from Iraq and Afghanistan is the issue. For that the F16's are must better
equipped and I really hope that our country is going for the JSF rather than
the useless Eurofighter. The latter is also a lot more expensive.....
Fly safe
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens fougapilot
Verzonden: dinsdag 11 december 2007 13:02
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots.
N13472(at)aol.com wrote:
> Why would the frogs use a US aircraft to film there new toy???????
Tom,
By Frogs, I assume you are talking about the French. However, France is NOT
part of the EuroFighter. Instead, the chose to invest a ton of $$ in the
Rafale. France is very peculiar and must have total control over it's
weapons. The Eurofighter is mainly a Brit / Germany product but should be
flown by many other countries.
Saw it fly this year at Le Bourget airshow. WOW what an airplane. No
offense, but the "New" F16 was there also, no contest.
Cheers,
D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151634#151634
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. |
Hans,
Agree with you. The EFA-2000 was designed as an air to air fighter. The JSF
is designed to be a dual roll aircraft as was the F-16. The Mud Chicken
(F-15E) has its' roots in the concept of the Air to Air but became a reality
when then McDonnell Douglas realized they need a Air to Ground version of
the Eagle. The modification of the F-15D was a natural follow on without
much loss of performance with the conformal tanks. We need the JSF and the
F-22 now to keep the superiority. With the grounding of our Eagles, we need
the F-22 even more now!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:21 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots.
Agreed: What a plane....completely useless in the present arena of ground
support. Such that the Brits have 50 on sale because they cannot use them in
Afghanistan.
The Eurofighter was designed in the eighties when the assumption still
existed that air combat with a presumed ennemy was the most important
feature for a fighter, that is the reason why they have the canards.
As we have learned this is not the case any more. Ground support as we know
from Iraq and Afghanistan is the issue. For that the F16's are must better
equipped and I really hope that our country is going for the JSF rather than
the useless Eurofighter. The latter is also a lot more expensive.....
Fly safe
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens fougapilot
Verzonden: dinsdag 11 december 2007 13:02
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots.
N13472(at)aol.com wrote:
> Why would the frogs use a US aircraft to film there new toy???????
Tom,
By Frogs, I assume you are talking about the French. However, France is NOT
part of the EuroFighter. Instead, the chose to invest a ton of $$ in the
Rafale. France is very peculiar and must have total control over it's
weapons. The Eurofighter is mainly a Brit / Germany product but should be
flown by many other countries.
Saw it fly this year at Le Bourget airshow. WOW what an airplane. No
offense, but the "New" F16 was there also, no contest.
Cheers,
D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151634#151634
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Copied from M14 List (M14 on e bay) |
His story on e bay sounded kinda fishy. Hope you don't mind but I copied your post
to the M14 List.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151644#151644
Message 5
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I am looking to put a vox intercom in my yak. What is the best one to
get.
Thanks, Don
Message 6
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| Subject: | Operating Limitations, FSDOs and Bahamas |
Folks,
Good response by Dennis
....refer to FAA Order 8130.2F CHG 3 and the FAA Memorandum-Removal of Proficiency
Area.
Folks, I've posted CH3 dated 4/2007 as well as the Air-200 memorandum and instructions
under our website at "Communications" - RPA News.
This is a crucially important point; your FSDO is only as knowledgable of the regs
as he chooses to be (none of us sit around reading regs right?)- but you have
access to the very word they have to address in dealing with your situation
or request concerning your OL, program letter, etc..
No doubt that some well meaning FSDO officers may not apply the information correctly
or in a standardized manner as the information warrants - in those cases
its up to the owner to have the knowledge walking in the door. Share your experiences
with requesting for the 300/600 prof area removal process - we may publishthe
more colorful experiences in the magazine.
Flying to Bahamas: Craig Ekberg, Ron Lee and one other CJ owner have made some
significant vacations out there over the last few years, Cat Island and a number
of great locations where they are very welcomed, well supported (in general
terms) and have apparently enjoyed the heck out of the flying, snorkeling, lost
shaker n salt...It's very doable (simply do a little internet research and
follow the required steps), I will ask Ron and Craig to spin up a trip report
for the magazine if not already started.... and close enough as the crow flys
to Fort Lauderdale/florida coast that if you have a break down there is spam
can part carrying support options to get you serviced (another friend named Craig
who is waiting for a CJ he purchased last year is a CAP pilot in Boca and
knows just about everyone in GA along the coast, I suspect Craig would knock down
walls to rescue a stranded pilot or warbird on one of the islands). As far
as going in to the drink, you
can prepare for that unlikely event as well with applicable gear and training.
Drew
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: And you think your hot formation pilots. |
Yeah, "The New" F-16 is so weighted down with avionics and fuel that it has
lost it's advantage!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fougapilot
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:02 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: And you think your hot formation pilots.
N13472(at)aol.com wrote:
> Why would the frogs use a US aircraft to film there new toy???????
Tom,
By Frogs, I assume you are talking about the French. However, France is NOT
part of the EuroFighter. Instead, the chose to invest a ton of $$ in the
Rafale. France is very peculiar and must have total control over it's
weapons. The Eurofighter is mainly a Brit / Germany product but should be
flown by many other countries.
Saw it fly this year at Le Bourget airshow. WOW what an airplane. No
offense, but the "New" F16 was there also, no contest.
Cheers,
D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=151634#151634
Message 8
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The SPA-4N is an inexpensive intercom with a Push-to-intercom function.
This allows you to keep the two button arrangement as well as Vox function.
Cheers,
C
Don Milbourn wrote:
> I am looking to put a vox intercom in my yak. What is the best one to get.
> Thanks, Don
> *
>
>
> *
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 9
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Install an X-Com VHF radio which has a built in VOX intercom and the
ability to monitor the standby frequency.
http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Milbourn
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Yak-List: intercom
I am looking to put a vox intercom in my yak. What is the best one to
get.
Thanks, Don
Message 10
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I just installed the new ICOM IC-A210 on a -52. It has large numbers,
monitors standby, connects to gps for radio freq's, and a built in intercom
vox/ics. So far so good.
Kregg
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: intercom
Install an X-Com VHF radio which has a built in VOX intercom and the ability
to monitor the standby frequency.
http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Don <mailto:valleyauto@clearwire.net> Milbourn
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:09 AM
Subject: Yak-List: intercom
I am looking to put a vox intercom in my yak. What is the best one to get.
Thanks, Don
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Typhoon C-130 pics |
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/daredevil/typhoon-strike-fighter-closing-dangerously-on-hercules-c130s-cargo-bay-283575.php
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Typhoon C-130 pics |
Thanks Herb,
Now I understand................ .
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Typhoon C-130 pics
>
> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/daredevil/typhoon-strike-fighter-closing-dangerously-on-hercules-c130s-cargo-bay-283575.php
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Typhoon C-130 pics |
Looking close up at the close up .... the pilot looks very much like Sqn
Ldr Craig Penrice but I could be wrong..........
He was Project Test Pilot Tornado F3 & EF2000 at DTEO Boscombe Down
kp
----- Original Message -----
From: "kp" <pilko2@btinternet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Typhoon C-130 pics
>
> Thanks Herb,
>
> Now I understand................ .
>
> kp
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:31 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Typhoon C-130 pics
>
>
>>
>> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/daredevil/typhoon-strike-fighter-closing-dangerously-on-hercules-c130s-cargo-bay-283575.php
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 14
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PM 1200 intercom, we have this in our 52 and its perfect.
http://www.psavionics.com/productdisp1.asp?catID=1&ctid=11
Best regards
Havard Dale
<http://www.yaknorway.com/> www.yaknorway.com
_____
Fra: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Don Milbourn
Sendt: 11. desember 2007 15:10
Til: yak-list@matronics.com
Emne: Yak-List: intercom
I am looking to put a vox intercom in my yak. What is the best one to
get.
Thanks, Don
Message 15
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| Subject: | Pre-OSH Activities at ETB |
'Changers, Yakkistas, and RPA Friends of all Aero-Persuasions:
Whilst Great Leader "Pappy" is spearheading the OSH-50 Committee, I'm merely a
Politburo member working on the staging for Oshkosh. As prior participants will
recall, we went to Manitowoc. Next year, we will have too many airplanes and
people for MTW. The new site will be West Bend, WI (KETB), just down highway
41 to the South. The airport is located 38 NM from KOSH, directly in line with
the WB arrival over Fond Du Lac. 52 Road miles over Highway 33/41. Some folks
park at West Bend, rent a car and drive back/forth, about 25 planes per year.
Lodging will be at the Americinn, details to follow early next year. Basically,
we have the whole hotel on the Sunday before the Monday arrival into OSH. Rooms
rates will be somewhere in the "70's". TBD. Meals and facilities will be provided
by the most excellent EAA Chapter facility I have viewed (online) for quite
a while. Working with the FBO for fuel prices. He also owns the FBO at KFLD
which handles 500 planes during AirVenture.
Still working on rental vehicles. We will also have an on-field cookout Sunday
evening before our Monday afternoon departure to the Warbird Arrival to start
the airshow. I have asked for the existing acro box over the field to be activated
for 1-2 hours on Sunday afternoon to strut our stuff.
There will be ECOMs on the way to determine Who is arriving When and With/WO a
GIB; I need thsi stuff for our service providers to plan on.
While next year will celebrate the Nanchang CJ-6's 50th anniversary, Yaks will
NOT left out of the fun, I suspect that a good many of the 50 Nanchangs flying
over Oshkosh will be the "clipped wing" CJ variety.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 16
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So, we are talking about Oshkosh, but then there is Sun 'n Fun. The brand new Hilton
Garden hotel just opened, it right in front of the Terminal building. Sold
out for SNF week while the foundation was being dug. What I failed to mention
in the post about West Bend before OSH, is that it will NOT be a clinic but
a place for mass form practice, especially for those who have not flown in SNF
or OSH formations. Yes, I'm sure that someone showing up at ETB with a recommendation
will get a shot at a check ride and mass form practice but...it would
really be a benefit to do all that at SNF first.
The T-Birds are coming this year, so we will have to look real sharp to show them
up :>)
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | 8130.2F Operating Limitations |
Does it bother anybody else that 8130.2F (even Change 3) says under 161(b)2
that:
(2) No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of meeti
ng the requirements
of =A7 91.319(b), as stated in the program letter (required by =A7 21.193)
for this aircraft. This aircraft must
be operated in accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating
rules of part 91, as well as all
additional limitations herein prescribed under the provisions of =A7 91.319
(e). These operating limitations
are a part of the special airworthiness certificate, and are to be carried
in the aircraft at all times
and made available to the pilot in command of the aircraft.
(Applicability: All)
And if you read 91.319(b) it basically says that you can only fly the aircr
aft to demonstrate that it's safe.
(2) No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose of meeti
ng the requirements of =A7 91.319(b)...
Which is to say that after you've demonstrated that the aircraft is safe, y
ou can't fly it again.
What #2 SHOULD say is that "During the flight test phase..." which is a per
fectly reasonable statement.
And then you have 161(b)30 which says:
(30) No person may operate this aircraft for other than the purpose(s) of [
identify purpose(s)],
to exhibit the aircraft, or participate in events outlined in [identify app
licant]=92s program letter (or any
amendments) describing compliance with =A7 21.193(d). In addition, this air
craft must be operated in
accordance with applicable air traffic and general operating rules of part
91, and all additional
limitations herein prescribed under the provisions of =A7 91.319(e). These
operating limitations are a part
of Form 8130-7, and are to be carried in the aircraft at all times and be a
vailable to the pilot in command
of the aircraft.
(Applicability: All)
Which puts it in conflict with 161(b)2 because neither is qualified with be
fore/after flight test phase has been completed.
Moreover, unless "proficiency/practice" is listed in #30, you can't fly you
r aircraft for proficiency/practice even if #2 is cleaned up. Where else d
oes it SAY that you can fly for proficiency? It's implied, but not stated.
And what's the difference between "proficiency flight" and "practice flight
"? Because #10 says you can carry passengers during proficiency flights but
it doesn't mention practice flights.
I know that these are nits, but they're nits in the RULES and that's a big
old mess.
Jon
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