---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/09/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:15 AM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Yak Pilot) 2. 02:16 AM - Gone 14-31st of Jan (Doug Sapp) 3. 02:57 AM - Re: how do i unsubscibe (Frank Stelwagon) 4. 04:39 AM - Re: Gone 14-31st of Jan (A. Dennis Savarese) 5. 06:44 AM - Re: Gone 14-31st of Jan (cjpilot710@aol.com) 6. 11:02 AM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Brian Lloyd) 7. 12:13 PM - Re: Gone 14-31st of Jan (Don Milbourn) 8. 01:24 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Jan Mevis) 9. 02:20 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 10. 03:33 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Brian Lloyd) 11. 03:44 PM - Looking to buy a snot valve (david stroud) 12. 03:55 PM - Re: Looking to buy a snot valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 13. 04:30 PM - Re: Looking to buy a snot valve (david stroud) 14. 04:35 PM - Re: Looking to buy a snot valve (A. Dennis Savarese) 15. 04:44 PM - Re: Looking to buy a snot valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 16. 04:52 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 17. 05:01 PM - Air system health (CJcanuck) 18. 06:39 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Brian Lloyd) 19. 10:10 PM - Re: Gone 14-31st of Jan (David Sproule) 20. 11:37 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Jan Mevis) 21. 11:53 PM - Re: B&C alternator for M14 (Jan Mevis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:25 AM PST US From: Yak Pilot Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not output from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can you figure that out? It is news to me. Mark ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:08:48 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 8, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Cliff Coy wrote: > I know this discussion is for the B&C, but I've received a lot of > wiring questions for the Skytronics as well. > > Attached is the wiring digram for Skytronics showing the warning > light installation. > > This is not shown in the original Skytronics wiring diagrams, but is > found in the literature. There is something wrong with this diagram. If that is indeed the voltage regulator, there is no way for the regulator to properly sense the bus voltage as there is no direct connection from the bus to the regulator, only the warning light circuit. If they are sensing the bus voltage through the warning light then regulation is going to suffer. OTOH, if the device labled "voltage regulator" is just some sort of OV protection and the real VR is inside the alternator (internally regulated) then the internal VR could sense the bus through the 'B' lead (output). Regardless, the diagram does not appear correct as labeled. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:16:08 AM PST US From: Doug Sapp Subject: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan Hey all, My wife gave me a fishing trip to Belize for my 60th birthday!! So I'm saying good-bye to 20 degrees and 24 inches of snow and hello to 85 degrees, beach, Bone fish, Tarpon, Permit, scuba diving, and cold Belikin Beer (not necessarily in that order). I will be out of the office Jan 14 through Jan 31st. Kathleen will do her best to fill orders while I'm away. If you need something special give me a call in the next few days. Always Yakin....except when I'm fishin, Doug ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:57:36 AM PST US From: "Frank Stelwagon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: how do i unsubscibe Read the directions! ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Wieland To: yak-list Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 2:41 PM Subject: Yak-List: how do i unsubscibe Steve/Wheels ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:42 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan Definitely enjoy your trip Doug. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sapp" Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 1:18 PM Subject: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan > > Hey all, > My wife gave me a fishing trip to Belize for my 60th birthday!! So I'm > saying good-bye to 20 degrees and 24 inches of snow and hello to 85 > degrees, beach, Bone fish, Tarpon, Permit, scuba diving, and cold > Belikin Beer (not necessarily in that order). I will be out of the > office Jan 14 through Jan 31st. Kathleen will do her best to fill > orders while I'm away. If you need something special give me a call in > the next few days. > > Always Yakin....except when I'm fishin, > Doug > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:57 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan In a message dated 1/9/2008 5:17:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rvfltd@televar.com writes: WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE LEAVING YOUR #10 WIFE AT HOME???????????? WHAT KIND OF HUSBAND ARE YOU????????? Heheheheheheh. Pappy --> Yak-List message posted by: Doug Sapp Hey all, My wife gave me a fishing trip to Belize for my 60th birthday!! So I'm saying good-bye to 20 degrees and 24 inches of snow and hello to 85 degrees, beach, Bone fish, Tarpon, Permit, scuba diving, and cold Belikin Beer (not necessarily in that order). I will be out of the office Jan 14 through Jan 31st. Kathleen will do her best to fill orders while I'm away. If you need something special give me a call in the next few days. Always Yakin....except when I'm fishin, Doug **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:00 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not > output from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can > you figure that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:44 PM PST US From: "Don Milbourn" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan wow you are 60 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Sapp" Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 12:18 PM Subject: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan > > Hey all, > My wife gave me a fishing trip to Belize for my 60th birthday!! So I'm > saying good-bye to 20 degrees and 24 inches of snow and hello to 85 > degrees, beach, Bone fish, Tarpon, Permit, scuba diving, and cold > Belikin Beer (not necessarily in that order). I will be out of the > office Jan 14 through Jan 31st. Kathleen will do her best to fill > orders while I'm away. If you need something special give me a call in > the next few days. > > Always Yakin....except when I'm fishin, > Doug > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:52 PM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a current on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. (IMHO !!!!) Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: woensdag 9 januari 2008 18:57 Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not > output from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can > you figure that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:47 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Hook the red wire to ground through a light bulb and try it again. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 16:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a current on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. (IMHO !!!!) Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: woensdag 9 januari 2008 18:57 Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not output > from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can you figure > that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:13 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 1:23 PM, Jan Mevis wrote: > > I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon > controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a > current > on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this > PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. > (IMHO > !!!!) It certainly could. Frankly, I would have powered the internal control circuitry from the unregulated input from the dynamo but that's just me. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:28 PM PST US From: "david stroud" Subject: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve Anyone on the list with a snot valve for sale? If not, can anyone recommend a reliable substitute? I'm thinking this must be a relatively simple air/oil/water separator that can withstand a 900 lb push. Close ? Thanks.. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:54 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" I am sure Doug Sapp has them. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 18:45 Subject: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve Anyone on the list with a snot valve for sale? If not, can anyone recommend a reliable substitute? I'm thinking this must be a relatively simple air/oil/water separator that can withstand a 900 lb push. Close ? Thanks.. David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:30:31 PM PST US From: "david stroud" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve No, he doesn't . David Stroud Ottawa, Canada C-FDWS Christavia Fairchild 51 under construction ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 6:55 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve > > I am sure Doug Sapp has them. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 18:45 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve > > > Anyone on the list with a snot valve for sale? If not, can anyone > recommend a reliable substitute? I'm thinking this must be a relatively > simple air/oil/water separator that can withstand a 900 lb push. Close ? > Thanks.. > > David Stroud Ottawa, Canada > C-FDWS Christavia > Fairchild 51 under construction > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:13 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve You are correct Mark. Doug should have them. But if it's to be used on a 52, the "goes-in-ta" and "goes-out-ta" B-nut fittings on the 52 are actually different than the B-nut fittings on the CJ. I tried adapting one to a 52 and ended up sending it back to Doug. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve > MALS-14 64E" > > I am sure Doug Sapp has them. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 18:45 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve > > > Anyone on the list with a snot valve for sale? If not, can anyone > recommend a reliable substitute? I'm thinking this must be a relatively > simple air/oil/water separator that can withstand a 900 lb push. Close ? > Thanks.. > > David Stroud Ottawa, Canada > C-FDWS Christavia > Fairchild 51 under construction > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:34 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Good to know! Thanks Dennis... I was not aware of that! Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 19:35 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve --> You are correct Mark. Doug should have them. But if it's to be used on a 52, the "goes-in-ta" and "goes-out-ta" B-nut fittings on the 52 are actually different than the B-nut fittings on the CJ. I tried adapting one to a 52 and ended up sending it back to Doug. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 5:55 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve Point, > MALS-14 64E" > > I am sure Doug Sapp has them. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud > Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 18:45 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Looking to buy a snot valve > > > Anyone on the list with a snot valve for sale? If not, can anyone > recommend a reliable substitute? I'm thinking this must be a relatively > simple air/oil/water separator that can withstand a 900 lb push. Close ? > Thanks.. > > David Stroud Ottawa, Canada > C-FDWS Christavia > Fairchild 51 under construction > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:36 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Disregard, Jan, you're right. I took the darn thing apart and checked it myself. I also checked it using a variable AC input. It is a ... IMHO.... A less than perfect design. If your battery goes totally dead, and you prop the engine and get it started, you still will have no voltage output on this darn thing. Ridiculous. Jan, what you could do would be to build an additional circuit for this. I know if it were my airplane, I sure as heck would. Tap off the two blue wire, go to a double pole single throw switch. Pushbutton would be ideal. From there run to a full wave bridge rectifier. Run that to a medium sized cap, not huge mind you, but about 2000 uf. From there run to a 7824 voltage regulator heatsinked for 5 amps. Connect that plus output through about a 10 amp diode directly to the output of B&C's voltage regulator. If you ever lose total battery, you then pull the over-voltage breaker thus disconnecting the B&C from the aircraft load. You prop the aircraft, push in your new button, and that will flash start your B&C voltage regulator as long as engine RPM is "up there". When you let go, the really big 22,000 uf cap that they have on the output of the regulator will act as a mini-battery and keep the thing operating until you bring it back down to idle. Hopefully, your battery will then also pick up some kind of charge. More simple still.. Do the same thing, but instead of the circuit, put in a small 24 volt nicad. Diode isolate it, and again use the same "rest of the design and procedure" to get going again. Lastly, and this is the best idea. TRASH that stupid circuit and build your own. Mark P.s. I respect B&C for their fine products and think the world of them. However, I personally think that any voltage regulator connected to the output of an extremely reliable PMG alternator that REQUIRES battery voltate in order to even operate is less than ideal. And ... Yes, I think it is actually stupid... Even though that is much less than polite. Their 35 and 50 amp systems are nothing like this and are much better. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 17:19 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 --> Point, MALS-14 64E" Hook the red wire to ground through a light bulb and try it again. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 16:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a current on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. (IMHO !!!!) Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: woensdag 9 januari 2008 18:57 Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not output > from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can you figure > that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:01:54 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Air system health From: "CJcanuck" Hi all! I'm currently starting my first annual on my CJ. Unfortunately, the first look-see isn't good. Upon opening my water filter I have discovered a biology experiment at one end and oil sludge at the other (spring) end. The filter body was heavily scored on the inside, probably from PLAAF wrench-monkey's working on it in the past, and heavily corroded. All the felt was either oil soaked or in poor condition and most of the screens were damaged in disassembling the unit. Obviously a replacement is in order, but my question to you all is; what about the rest of the system? The oil; where should I start to look first? The compressor? How do I clean out the rest of the system? I'm going to remove and have the main and emergency air tanks serviced at a commercial pneumatic repair shop (non-aviation) near here. Anything that I should have then do or look for over the standard IRAN type check? Any and all info would be greatly appreciated! Mike Kirk C-GYMK Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157120#157120 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:25 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: > Lastly, and this is the best idea. TRASH that stupid circuit and > build > your own. That is the right idea. As I said, use a boost/buck switching regulator circuit. > P.s. I respect B&C for their fine products and think the world of > them. > However, I personally think that any voltage regulator connected to > the > output of an extremely reliable PMG alternator that REQUIRES battery > voltate in order to even operate is less than ideal. And ... Yes, I > think it is actually stupid... Even though that is much less than > polite. Their 35 and 50 amp systems are nothing like this and are > much > better. I can actually see a possible reason for it. If your battery is off- line, you probably want the dynamo to go off line too. OTOH, if you have a proper regulator it should work just fine even if the battery is off line. -- Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:15 PM PST US From: "David Sproule" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan Hi Doug, Sorry I haven't got those part # for the aileron bolts but there are only two that pass from the inside of the aileron, one is the actuator and the other is the hinge on the inboard end of the aileron. They are both about the same length. Would appreciate getting them before you leave. Best regards, David Sproule -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp Sent: January 8, 2008 11:18 AM Subject: Yak-List: Gone 14-31st of Jan Hey all, My wife gave me a fishing trip to Belize for my 60th birthday!! So I'm saying good-bye to 20 degrees and 24 inches of snow and hello to 85 degrees, beach, Bone fish, Tarpon, Permit, scuba diving, and cold Belikin Beer (not necessarily in that order). I will be out of the office Jan 14 through Jan 31st. Kathleen will do her best to fill orders while I'm away. If you need something special give me a call in the next few days. Always Yakin....except when I'm fishin, Doug ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:01 PM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 Thanks for the idea! I'll work out something. Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: donderdag 10 januari 2008 1:52 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 MALS-14 64E" Disregard, Jan, you're right. I took the darn thing apart and checked it myself. I also checked it using a variable AC input. It is a ... IMHO.... A less than perfect design. If your battery goes totally dead, and you prop the engine and get it started, you still will have no voltage output on this darn thing. Ridiculous. Jan, what you could do would be to build an additional circuit for this. I know if it were my airplane, I sure as heck would. Tap off the two blue wire, go to a double pole single throw switch. Pushbutton would be ideal. From there run to a full wave bridge rectifier. Run that to a medium sized cap, not huge mind you, but about 2000 uf. From there run to a 7824 voltage regulator heatsinked for 5 amps. Connect that plus output through about a 10 amp diode directly to the output of B&C's voltage regulator. If you ever lose total battery, you then pull the over-voltage breaker thus disconnecting the B&C from the aircraft load. You prop the aircraft, push in your new button, and that will flash start your B&C voltage regulator as long as engine RPM is "up there". When you let go, the really big 22,000 uf cap that they have on the output of the regulator will act as a mini-battery and keep the thing operating until you bring it back down to idle. Hopefully, your battery will then also pick up some kind of charge. More simple still.. Do the same thing, but instead of the circuit, put in a small 24 volt nicad. Diode isolate it, and again use the same "rest of the design and procedure" to get going again. Lastly, and this is the best idea. TRASH that stupid circuit and build your own. Mark P.s. I respect B&C for their fine products and think the world of them. However, I personally think that any voltage regulator connected to the output of an extremely reliable PMG alternator that REQUIRES battery voltate in order to even operate is less than ideal. And ... Yes, I think it is actually stupid... Even though that is much less than polite. Their 35 and 50 amp systems are nothing like this and are much better. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 17:19 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 --> Point, MALS-14 64E" Hook the red wire to ground through a light bulb and try it again. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 16:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a current on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. (IMHO !!!!) Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: woensdag 9 januari 2008 18:57 Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not output > from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can you figure > that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:07 PM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 Anyway, with a bad battery, I can't start my Yak 50 at all, since the air start valve solenoid does not open (and unlike the Yak 52, I can't touch it from the cockpit). Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: donderdag 10 januari 2008 1:52 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 MALS-14 64E" Disregard, Jan, you're right. I took the darn thing apart and checked it myself. I also checked it using a variable AC input. It is a ... IMHO.... A less than perfect design. If your battery goes totally dead, and you prop the engine and get it started, you still will have no voltage output on this darn thing. Ridiculous. Jan, what you could do would be to build an additional circuit for this. I know if it were my airplane, I sure as heck would. Tap off the two blue wire, go to a double pole single throw switch. Pushbutton would be ideal. From there run to a full wave bridge rectifier. Run that to a medium sized cap, not huge mind you, but about 2000 uf. From there run to a 7824 voltage regulator heatsinked for 5 amps. Connect that plus output through about a 10 amp diode directly to the output of B&C's voltage regulator. If you ever lose total battery, you then pull the over-voltage breaker thus disconnecting the B&C from the aircraft load. You prop the aircraft, push in your new button, and that will flash start your B&C voltage regulator as long as engine RPM is "up there". When you let go, the really big 22,000 uf cap that they have on the output of the regulator will act as a mini-battery and keep the thing operating until you bring it back down to idle. Hopefully, your battery will then also pick up some kind of charge. More simple still.. Do the same thing, but instead of the circuit, put in a small 24 volt nicad. Diode isolate it, and again use the same "rest of the design and procedure" to get going again. Lastly, and this is the best idea. TRASH that stupid circuit and build your own. Mark P.s. I respect B&C for their fine products and think the world of them. However, I personally think that any voltage regulator connected to the output of an extremely reliable PMG alternator that REQUIRES battery voltate in order to even operate is less than ideal. And ... Yes, I think it is actually stupid... Even though that is much less than polite. Their 35 and 50 amp systems are nothing like this and are much better. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 17:19 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 --> Point, MALS-14 64E" Hook the red wire to ground through a light bulb and try it again. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 16:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 I'm not entirely certain, but the bridge rectifier has two silicon controlled rectifiers instead of ordinary diodes. These SCR's need a current on their gate to function. I suppose that this is the reason why this PMR1-28 regulator needs a battery voltage on the blac and red wires. (IMHO !!!!) Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: woensdag 9 januari 2008 18:57 Subject: Re: Yak-List: B&C alternator for M14 On Jan 9, 2008, at 12:07 AM, Yak Pilot wrote: > Brian, Jan is telling me that the B&C Perm Mag system will not output > from the voltage regulator without a battery present. Can you figure > that out? It is news to me. It is possible that it will not work without a battery present but that would surprise me. Certainly the PM alternator (dynamo) will produce output without any excitation as the magnet provides the excitation. But I do not claim to be the final authority. B&C can do a better job of representing their product than I can. I would just call Bill Bainbridge at B&C and ask him. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.