Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Air Bottle fitting leak (Mozam)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 10:45 AM - Strong 285 Engine for sale (ONTHEGOSA@aol.com)
4. 11:05 AM - Re: Air Bottle fitting leak (Walter Lannon)
5. 11:49 AM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (Walter Lannon)
6. 12:22 PM - Re: Air Bottle fitting leak (Mozam)
7. 12:51 PM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (Walter Lannon)
8. 04:35 PM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 07:38 PM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (Joe Howse)
10. 09:54 PM - Re: Nanchang aileron balancing (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Air Bottle fitting leak |
The fitting on my main air bottle leaks (soapy water clearly shows this). I have
tried many different O-rings on this fitting, but none stop the leak. The
original O-ring isn't really an "O"in cross-section, but rather, has a square
cross-section.
This original ring (which is rather squished up) will at least hold 2.5 to 3.0
atmospheres, but no more. The compressor will bring it up to 5.0 (slowly due
to the leak), but as soon as I shut down it leaks back down to 2.5 to 3.0.
You guys know of any "tricks" or O-rings that will work, or does anybody have any
of these original "square" O-rings?
Thanks,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157618#157618
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
In a message dated 1/12/2008 2:13:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
yakjock@gmail.com writes:
Hal,
If I am not mistaken, balancing is balancing so to speak. For ailerons and
even elevators and rudders, the pivot point is the hinge. The aileron should
be balanced so that it stays at whatever angle you put it while its sitting
on the pivot points which is the aileron attach bolts. That is a fairly
standard way of doing it for every airplane I've recovered. I am about to
recover some ailerons for a TMB and planned to do the same.
The travel range (up & down) is adjusted, if I remember correctly on the
control tube under the floor. I do believe the angles are listed near the front
of the manual.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
We are in the process of remounting the ailerons onto 88 (the project). We
want to make sure we get the balance right as we have installed a trim motor
on one side. Does anyone on the list have information on the factory
settings or know where we might get this information? For those of you who have
balanced the ailerons we would appreciate hearing what and how you did it.
Thanks for the help.
Hal Morley
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 3
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| Subject: | Strong 285 Engine for sale |
I'm converting my CJ over to M-14P power plant so am selling my 285 engine,
500 SMOH, intake drains, spare exhaust, smoke oil setup, Auto ignition, oil
analysis done every 50 hours, been on oil filter. Been maintained by Bill
Blackwell.
Scott Andrews
602-705-4413
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Air Bottle fitting leak |
Steve;
CJ or Yak?? May be the same but my comments are to the CJ. The seal you
refer to is made of Lead. I believe Doug has them in stock. I have
manufactured annealed copper replacements for these which, I think, are an
improvement but the labour involved (without automated tooling) is
prohibitive.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mozam" <sdalton@hughes.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:24 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Air Bottle fitting leak
>
> The fitting on my main air bottle leaks (soapy water clearly shows this).
> I have tried many different O-rings on this fitting, but none stop the
> leak. The original O-ring isn't really an "O"in cross-section, but
> rather, has a square cross-section.
>
> This original ring (which is rather squished up) will at least hold 2.5 to
> 3.0 atmospheres, but no more. The compressor will bring it up to 5.0
> (slowly due to the leak), but as soon as I shut down it leaks back down to
> 2.5 to 3.0.
>
> You guys know of any "tricks" or O-rings that will work, or does anybody
> have any of these original "square" O-rings?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Dalton
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157618#157618
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
Hi Hal;
I have not been able to find the control surface balance limits for the CJ. Quite
likely that information is in the Structural Repair manual which,as far as
I know, has never been translated to English.
I have balance checked only one set after recovering and found them within the
limits for the Harvard (or T6). Can't recall the specific numbers right now.
These limits MAY NOT be acceptable for the CJ but may be useful as a guide.
With subsequent recovering jobs I have not rechecked balance since there have been
no repairs that could effect balance and my procedure and material usage is
identical each time.
There is a process I intended to carry out but have, so far, failed to do to determine
an estimate for the CJ balance limits. One excuse for this failure is
that my gram balance scale disappeared during the move to the Okanagan 12 years
ago.
Using the standard procedure, balance each control surface as removed from the
aircraft and record the unbalance moments. If there is no sign of structural repair
and the fabric is intact and reasonably clean it should be acceptable to
use these numbers as the limit.
If that is not possible balance an uncovered set (clean, no repairs) and record
the moments. Using a little ingenuity with some doped fabric one should be able
to come up with acceptable limits.
Procedure:
Fabricate mating hinge fixtures for each control surface and attach these to a
level table surface. Hinge points must be in alignment and level and at a known
height above the surface.
Attach the control surface and measure the unbalance moment (oz. inches, etc) with
a precision balance scale at a convenient location on the trailing edge. This
will likely be a positive number (T/E heavy) but it is possible that some
aircraft may require an overbalance (T/E light)
Note to Jim;
I'm sure if you were to refer to the appropriate military aircraft manual for the
TBM you will find specific balance limits in the xxxxxx-3 (Structural Repair)
RCAF ( or RCN) - Engineering Order,
USAF - Technical Order (but probably had no TBM's)
USN - Beats me but you likely know
Cheers;
Walt
---- Original Message -----
From: Hal
To: Yak List
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 11:11 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Nanchang aileron balancing
We are in the process of remounting the ailerons onto 88 (the project). We want
to make sure we get the balance right as we have installed a trim motor on
one side. Does anyone on the list have information on the factory settings or
know where we might get this information? For those of you who have balanced
the ailerons we would appreciate hearing what and how you did it.
Thanks for the help.
Hal Morley
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Air Bottle fitting leak |
Sorry, should have been more specific. It's a Yak.
Thanks,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157670#157670
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
Hal;
My apology!
I sent a diatribe on control surface balancing that may be of use for CJ elevators
and rudder and all surfaces on most other aircraft but has no applicability
to the CJ6 aileron.
The reason is that the CJ6 aileron is not an individually balanced surface. It
is part of a balanced system! Installed on the aircraft each aileron is effectively
balanced by the opposing aileron through a rigid push-pull rod control
system. Obviously that would not be possible with a cable system.
While this sounds logical and good it does not comply with Western aircraft certification
standards (at least the old ones I am familiar with), whether rod or
cable operated. What happens if you forget one cotter pin and this excellent
push-pull system is suddenly disconnected?
For your situation I would suggest you do not change the weight or configuration
of one aileron over the other.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Hal
To: Yak List
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 11:11 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Nanchang aileron balancing
We are in the process of remounting the ailerons onto 88 (the project). We want
to make sure we get the balance right as we have installed a trim motor on
one side. Does anyone on the list have information on the factory settings or
know where we might get this information? For those of you who have balanced
the ailerons we would appreciate hearing what and how you did it.
Thanks for the help.
Hal Morley
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
In a message dated 1/12/2008 3:52:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
wlannon@persona.ca writes:
This might be a good time to start a discussion about WHY flight controls
are balanced. Those real certified engineers amongst us (I am not one) could
(please in layman's terms) explain why it is done.
My education on the subject is from EAA manuals, shop experience, and hangar
shop talk. I do not pretend to be an expert cause I don't have the paper on
the wall.
I was to understand that balancing the control were for 2 basic reason. 1.
For control system function, in that the pilot would not have to input
constant control correction for a system that was out of balance. 2. Help to
eliminate the possibility of control flutter (although I understand that shape
had
a lot to do with that).
The latter making sense to me when it came to the rudder which is mounted
vertically and would appear to less likely be effected by an out of balance
condition.
In all my readings of aircraft repair, I've never seen where it said that a
certain out of balance condition (trailing edge heavy or light) would be
needed. But I have not read every manual either.
BTW I am trying find a TBM manual at this time. The flight control fabric
is rib stitched, but because of the way the rib are made, you can not use the
standard FAA approved rib stitch. Grumman had did something different.
Also the procedure you outline is the one I've used and understood as a
"standard" way of balancing.
Awaiting to be elucidated.
Jim"Pappy" Goolsby
Hal;
My apology!
I sent a diatribe on control surface balancing that may be of use for CJ
elevators and rudder and all surfaces on most other aircraft but has no
applicability to the CJ6 aileron.
The reason is that the CJ6 aileron is not an individually balanced surface.
It is part of a balanced system! Installed on the aircraft each aileron is
effectively balanced by the opposing aileron through a rigid push-pull rod
control system. Obviously that would not be possible with a cable system.
While this sounds logical and good it does not comply with Western aircraft
certification standards (at least the old ones I am familiar with), whether
rod or cable operated. What happens if you forget one cotter pin and this
excellent push-pull system is suddenly disconnected?
For your situation I would suggest you do not change the weight or
configuration of one aileron over the other.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: _Hal_ (mailto:yakjock@gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 11:11 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Nanchang aileron balancing
We are in the process of remounting the ailerons onto 88 (the project). We
want to make sure we get the balance right as we have installed a trim motor
on one side. Does anyone on the list have information on the factory
settings or know where we might get this information? For those of you who have
balanced the ailerons we would appreciate hearing what and how you did it.
Thanks for the help.
Hal Morley
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
Grumman ribs are similar to the CJ however they used a continuos wire
clip for attachment.
The Stits manual says to use the original system if possible.
I have recovered several sets of CJ ailerons and found that some had
a counterweight in the leading edge as well as the standard tip CW,
I assumed that as long as they were matched, ie. left and right,
that either method was acceptable.
But like Walt points out, not so critical with the push rod system.
Joe
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Nanchang aileron balancing |
In a message dated 1/12/2008 10:40:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
joeh@shaw.ca writes:
Are you sure about the TBM using a wire clip? I called a well known warbird
shop out in CA. and they told me it was stitched.
Man! I just got to find a manual.
Pappy
Grumman ribs are similar to the CJ however they used a continuos wire clip
for attachment.
The Stits manual says to use the original system if possible.
I have recovered several sets of CJ ailerons and found that some had
a counterweight in the leading edge as well as the standard tip CW,
I assumed that as long as they were matched, ie. left and right,
that either method was acceptable.
But like Walt points out, not so critical with the push rod system.
Joe
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
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