Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:43 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Cliff Coy)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: Air Bottle fitting leak (napeone)
3. 07:12 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (doug sapp)
4. 08:07 AM - Formation (KingCJ6@aol.com)
5. 08:12 AM - Re: Yak / M-14P parts (Andy Hawes)
6. 08:37 AM - Re: Formation (Brian Lloyd)
7. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Air Bottle fitting leak (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
9. 01:11 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
10. 03:19 PM - Cockpit Pocket Project (John Graham)
11. 03:20 PM - Re: Formation (Brian Lloyd)
12. 03:27 PM - Re: Formation (Brian Lloyd)
13. 04:09 PM - Re: Cockpit Pocket Project (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 04:30 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
15. 04:31 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (cjpilot710@aol.com)
16. 05:20 PM - Re: Formation (cjpilot710@aol.com)
17. 05:33 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd)
18. 05:40 PM - Re: Formation (Brian Lloyd)
19. 05:44 PM - Re: Formation (Brian Lloyd)
20. 05:48 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
21. 06:26 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
22. 06:31 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
23. 06:34 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
24. 06:39 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
25. 06:40 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
26. 06:52 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
27. 07:00 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
28. 07:10 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
29. 07:11 PM - Re: Formation (cjpilot710@aol.com)
30. 07:31 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
31. 07:32 PM - Re: Formation (viperdoc)
32. 07:36 PM - Re: Formation (viperdoc)
33. 07:46 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
34. 08:25 PM - Re: Formation (DaBear)
35. 08:25 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
36. 08:46 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
37. 09:02 PM - Re: Formation (GJHagstrom@aol.com)
38. 10:49 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
Having brought in over 300 aircraft into the states and 40-50 outbound,
here's what I can tell you:
A standard Yak-52 takes 2 men about 4 days to dis-assemble, pack, and
load a container.
KNOW WHO YOUR BUYING FROM AND ASK AROUND.
I highly recommend purchasing from a known and reputable company.
We normally do a 20% down to secure and load the aircraft. When the
container is loaded and ready to ship (pictures, container # etc)
we wire the remaining 80%. If you're not familiar with the trials and
tribulations of trans-oceanic shipping find someone who is.
Expect about $3500 for the container and about $250 in shipping
insurance. This doesn't include inland trucking or border inspection
fees (if yours gets tagged- ~$1000).
Re-assembly is 2 men in 2 days and is done in conjunction with a
condition inspection. We flat rate it.
Expect about $500-$1000 if a DAR is going to certify the aircraft.
The FAA will do it for free, but certifications are not high on their
list of things to do.
So all told expect about $8500 and 6-8 weeks from container start to
airplane flying.
Hope this helps in your decision.
Best regards,
Cliff
GreasySideUp wrote:
>
> I know a few of you have bought Yaks from overseas. A couple of questions.
>
> How much does the disassembly shipping and reassembly cost for a Yak shipped
over from Germany or Russia? Also what time frame can I reasonably expect and
what have any of you done as far as escrow or payment for buying something like
this sight unseen from a foreign country? Any shipping companies to recommend
or to stay away from?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -j
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157783#157783
>
>
>
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Air Bottle fitting leak |
I have had the same leak. I found the edges around the Oring were not entirely
flat. There was a tit not allowing the Oring to seal. I filed it away and now
good to go. I have used an American hardware store Oring for the past year with
no problem.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157973#157973
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
Spot on Cliff, except that you did not mention US customs and Brokerage
costs to import. If you draw the short straw and US customs decides to do
an "intensive" inspection with X-ray it could cost you another 500.00 plus a
day or two delay. This has happened to me on the last two aircraft comming
in from China. US brokerage costs are about $250.00. All this via the Port
of Seattle.
Gone to Belize in 20 minutes...
On Jan 14, 2008 6:42 AM, Cliff Coy <cliff@gesoco.com> wrote:
>
> Having brought in over 300 aircraft into the states and 40-50 outbound,
> here's what I can tell you:
>
> A standard Yak-52 takes 2 men about 4 days to dis-assemble, pack, and
> load a container.
>
> KNOW WHO YOUR BUYING FROM AND ASK AROUND.
>
> I highly recommend purchasing from a known and reputable company.
>
> We normally do a 20% down to secure and load the aircraft. When the
> container is loaded and ready to ship (pictures, container # etc)
> we wire the remaining 80%. If you're not familiar with the trials and
> tribulations of trans-oceanic shipping find someone who is.
>
> Expect about $3500 for the container and about $250 in shipping
> insurance. This doesn't include inland trucking or border inspection
> fees (if yours gets tagged- ~$1000).
>
> Re-assembly is 2 men in 2 days and is done in conjunction with a
> condition inspection. We flat rate it.
> Expect about $500-$1000 if a DAR is going to certify the aircraft.
> The FAA will do it for free, but certifications are not high on their
> list of things to do.
>
> So all told expect about $8500 and 6-8 weeks from container start to
> airplane flying.
>
> Hope this helps in your decision.
>
> Best regards,
> Cliff
>
> GreasySideUp wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know a few of you have bought Yaks from overseas. A couple of
> questions.
> >
> > How much does the disassembly shipping and reassembly cost for a Yak
> shipped over from Germany or Russia? Also what time frame can I reasonably
> expect and what have any of you done as far as escrow or payment for buying
> something like this sight unseen from a foreign country? Any shipping
> companies to recommend or to stay away from?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > -j
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157783#157783
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Director of Maintenance
> Border Air Ltd
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 4
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>From a fellow CAF aviator:
An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will put
these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 10:00 PM
Subject: Fw: 8th Air Force
The planning effort and the number of A/C involved has to be beyond the
comprehension of any aviator who wasn't actually there. Coordinating 1200
(4-engined) bombers and 600-800 fighters in "radio silence" sounds impossible.
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:20 AM
Subject: Fw: 8th Air Force
"THE MIGHTY EIGHTH"
Of all the stories that have been written, and movies that have been shown,
about the 8th Air Force, very little attention has been given to what was
involved in assembling 1200 B-17's and B-24's each day, to get them in
formation to carry out a strike against Germany. Certainly showing bombers under
attack by fighters, or encountering heavy flak, was a reality, and are
interesting to watch. Also, stories about some of the rougher missions make
interesting reading. But what was going on over England, each morning, could
get
just as scary to the crews as the time spent over some of the targets.
The planning, and coordination, that had to be accomplished during the night,
by the operations planners of each Group, so that the crews could be briefed,
was unbelievable. If the planners had failed to do their jobs properly,
there would have been a free for all among Bomb Groups, in the skies over
England. The rendezvous points, altitude, and times had to be precise, and
known by all of the crews, before the Eighth Air Force could get in formation.
The success of the planners, in accomplishing their mission, enabled the
Eighth Air Force to become the most powerful air armada ever assembled. In
my view, how this was accomplished is one of the major untold stories of the
war.
I was a pilot in the 95th Bomb Group, in late 1944 and early 1945, and what
follows is a typical mission, as I remember it, from a crew member's
perspective.
Early in the evening, our Squadron Operations would post the names of the
crews that were scheduled to fly the following day. There were two ways we
could be notified if the Group had been alerted to fly. One was by means of
lights on the front of the orderly room, and the other with raising of
colored flags. If a green light was on, the Group was alerted, if a red light
was on we would fly, and if a white light was on, the Group would stand
down. The light was monitored frequently throughout the evening to learn our
status and, normally, we would know before going to bed if we would be
flying the next day.
On the morning of a mission, the CQ (charge of quarters) would awaken the
crews about four or five o'clock, depending on takeoff time. The questions
we always asked were, "What is the fuel load?" and, "What is the bomb load?"
If his answer was, " full Tokyo tanks," we knew we would be going deep
into Germany. Shortly after being awakened, "6-by" trucks would start
shuttling us to the mess hall. We always had all the fresh eggs we could eat,
when flying a mission. After breakfast, the trucks carried us to the briefing
room. All of the crew members attended the main briefing, and then the
Navigators, Bombardiers and Radio operators went to a specialized briefing.
At the main briefing, in addition to the target information--anti-aircraft
guns, fighter escort and route in--we received a sheet showing our location in
the formation, the call signs for the day and all the information we
would need to assemble our Group and get into the bomber stream.
After briefing, we got into our flight gear, drew our parachutes and loaded
onto the trucks for a ride to our plane. We were now guided by the time on
our daily briefing sheet. We started engines at a given time and watched
for the airplane we would be flying in formation with to taxi past, then we
would taxi behind him. We were following strict radio silence.
We were now parked, nose to tail around the perimeter, on both sides of the
active runway, and extremely vulnerable to a fighter strafing attack. At
the designated takeoff time, a green flare would be fired and takeoff would
begin. Every thirty seconds an airplane started takeoff roll. We were
lined up on the perimeter so that the 12 airplanes of the high squadron would
take off first, followed by the lead and then the low squadron.
Each Group had a pattern for the airplanes to fly during climb to assembly
altitude. Some would fly a triangle, some a rectangle and our Group flew a
circle, using a "Buncher" (a low frequency radio station) which was located
on our station. The patterns for each Group fit together like a jig saw
puzzle. Unfortunately, strong winds aloft would destroy the integrity of the
patterns, and there would be considerable over running of each other's
patterns.
Many of our takeoffs were made before daylight, during the winter of '44
and '45, when I was there, so it was not uncommon to climb through several
thousand feet of cloud overcast. Also it was not uncommon to experience one
or two near misses while climbing through the clouds, although you would
never see the other airplane. You knew you had just had a near miss, when
suddenly the airplane would shake violently as it hit the prop wash of
another plane. It was a wonderful feeling to break out on top, so you could watch
for other planes, to keep from running into each other. To add to the
congestion we were creating, the Royal Air Force Lancasters, Halifaxes, and
Wimpys would be returning from their night missions, and flying through our
formations. Needless to say, pilots had to keep their heads on a swivel and their
eyes out of the cockpit.
After take off, the squadron lead would fire a flare every 30 seconds, so
that we could keep him located and enable us to get into formation quicker.
The color of our Group flare was red-green. The first thing you would see,
when breaking out of the clouds, was a sky filled with pyrotechnics, so you
had to search the sky for the Group flare, which would identify the lead
airplane of your Squadron. Once you had it located, you could adjust your
pattern to climb more quickly into formation with him. As each airplane pulled
into formation, they would also fire a flare, with the lead plane, making
it much easier for the following aircraft to keep him in sight. I think most
crew members would probably agree that the pyrotechnic show, in the skies
over England, in the morning when the Eighth was assembling, was a rare sight
to behold.
The order of progression for assembling the Eighth Air Force was to first
assemble the Flight elements, the Squadrons, the Groups, the Combat wings,
the Divisions and, finally, the Air Force.
As soon as the four Squadron elements were formed, the high, low and second
elements would take up their positions on the lead element, to form a
Squadron. When the three Squadrons had completed assembly, it was necessary
to
get into Group formation. This was accomplished by having the three Squadrons
arrive over a pre-selected fix at a precise time and heading. The high and
low Squadrons were separated from the lead Squadron by 1000 feet and,
after getting into Group formation, they would maintain their positions by
following the lead Squadron.
Then it was necessary to get into the Combat Wing formation. We were in
the 13th Combat Wing, which consisted of three Bomb Groups: the 95th, the
100th and the 390th . Whichever Group was leading the Wing that day, would
arrive over a pre-selected point, at a precise time and heading. Thirty
seconds later, the second Group would pass that fix, followed by the third
Group, thirty seconds later. We were then in Combat Wing formation. The
navigators in the lead airplanes had a tremendous responsibility, to ensure that
the rendezvous times were strictly adhered to.
There were three Divisions in the Eighth, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The 1st and
3rd Divisions consisted of B-17s only, and the 2nd Division was B-24s. The
B-24s were faster than the B-17s, but the B-17s could fly higher,
therefore, the two were not compatible in formation. As a result the 1st and
3rd
Divisions would fly together and the 2nd Division would fly separately
.
Now that the Groups were flying in Combat Wing formation, it was necessary
to assemble the Divisions. This was usually accomplished at the "coast
out"--a city on the coast, selected as the departure point "fix." The Group
leader in each Combat Wing knew his assigned position in the Division, and
the precise time that he should arrive at the coast out departure point, to
assume that position in the Division formation. The lead Group in the
Division, which had been selected to lead the Eighth on the mission, would be
first
over the departure fix. Thirty seconds after the last Group in the first
Wing passed that point, the second Wing would fall in trail, and so on, until
all Combat Wings were flying in trail and the Division would be formed.
One minute later, the lead Group in the other Division would fly over that
point, and the Combat Wings in that Division would follow the same procedure
to
get into formation. When all of its Combat Wings were in trail, the Eighth
Air Force B-17 strike force was formed and on its way to the target. At the
same time the 2nd Division B-24s were assembling in a similar manner and
also departing to their target.
Meanwhile, as the bombers were assembling for their mission, pilots from
the Fighter Groups were being briefed on their day's mission. Normally, 600 to
800 P-38's, P-47's, and P-51's would accompany the bombers to provide
protection against enemy fighter attacks. Fighter cover was not needed by
the
bombers until they were penetrating enemy territory, therefore to help
conserve fuel. fighter takeoffs were planned to give them enough time to quickly
assemble after takeoff, and climb on course up the bomber stream to the
groups they would be covering. The combined strength of the fighters and
bombers brought the total number of aircraft participating in a mission to
approximately two thousand.
A major problem that presented itself, on each mission, was that the bomber
stream was getting too stretched out. It was not uncommon for the
headlines in stateside newspapers--in trying to show the strength of our Air
Force--to state that the first Group of bombers was bombing Berlin, while the
last
Group was still over the English Channel. It made great headlines but was
a very undesirable situation. It meant that the Groups were out of
position, and not keeping the proper separation. Furthermore, it was almost
impossible for them to catch up and get back into the desired formation. This
made
the entire bomber stream more vulnerable to fighter attacks.
Finally, our planners figured out what we were doing wrong. When the
first Group departed the coast out fix, it started its climb to what would be
the bombing altitude. Then, as each succeeding Group departed that fix, it,
too, would start climbing. The problem with this procedure was that, as
soon as the first Group started its climb, its true airspeed would start to
increase, and it would encounter different wind velocities. Now it would
start to pull away from the Group in back of it, and the "stretch-out" of the
bomber stream would begin. By the time the last Group had reached the coast
out, to start its climb, the first Group would be leveled off, with a true
airspeed approaching 250 miles per hour, and the bomber stream would be
really stretching out.
The solution to this problem that had been frustrating the Bomber crews for
so long was pretty simple. We would no longer start climbing at the coast
out, but instead, at a designated time, all Groups would start climbing,
irrespective of position. This meant that we all would have similar true
airspeeds and would be influenced by the same winds aloft. That took care of
the problem. It was still possible for a Group to be out of position,
because of poor timing, but the entire bomber stream wouldn't get all stretched
out.
When you consider the way our Air Traffic Control system operates today,
and all the facilities at their disposal to guide each individual airplane
through the sky to ensure its safety, it's almost unbelievable that we were
able to do what we did. To think of launching hundreds of airplanes, in a
small airspace, many times in total darkness, loaded with bombs, with
complete radio silence, and no control from the ground, and do it successfully
day
after day, with young air crews, with minimum experience, is absolutely
mind boggling.
The accomplishments of the Eighth Air Force have been and will be reviewed
by historians from World War II on. There never will be another air armada
to compare to it. I feel confident that they will never cease to be amazed
by our ability to assemble hundreds of heavy Bombers, under the conditions
we were confronting, into the devastating strike force we now fondlyrefer to
as, "The Mighty Eighth."
LTG Brett Dula USAF ret forwarded:
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak / M-14P parts |
hi Dee -- can you send me a number where I can talk with you about the
exhaust and oil tank?
Thanks --
Andy
615-400-4654
On 1/13/08 8:31 PM, "Dee Conger" <dee@innoviveinc.com> wrote:
>
> Still have the following items available:
>
> Airflow Performance Fuel Injection - complete system $3,000
> M-14P Titanium exhaust system - almost new - $2,000
> ADC flat-type oil filter - $450
> Oil Tank for M-14P conversion such as Murphy Moose, etc - non-inverted
> pickup - very nice quality and included oil separator - $500
>
>
>
> Dee
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>
> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Air Bottle fitting leak |
If you purchase a US manufactured primer pump seal from Carl/Jill at M14P,
it will solve your problem. The primer pump seal is much like the original
seal in the air tanks and fits perfectly over the male fitting that goes
into the tank. Try one and I think you will be quite pleased.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "napeone" <napeone@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:45 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Air Bottle fitting leak
>
> I have had the same leak. I found the edges around the Oring were not
> entirely flat. There was a tit not allowing the Oring to seal. I filed it
> away and now good to go. I have used an American hardware store Oring for
> the past year with no problem.
> David H.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=157973#157973
>
>
>
Message 8
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Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
Brian,
You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks, I'll take
my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to runaway from you
in the pitch ass dark!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>
>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>
>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>
>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>
>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>
>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>
>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
Message 9
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Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't
bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Cockpit Pocket Project |
Thanks to all who offered advice on my cockpit pocket
question. I removed the left vinyl padding from both
cockpits and took them to a local upholstery store.
Using thick, clear vinyl, I had them sew in 3 pockets
in the front along with a pen holder and 2 pockets in
the rear. It took them a few hours. Now my
checklists, nausea bags, pens, sectionals are right
where I need them. The larger pockets have a
velcro-style strap that folds over them to prevent
items from coming loose during aerobatics. Not bad
for not a lot of money! Two pictures attached - more
if you contact me off line.
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 11
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On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you.
> Thanks, I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down
> or try to runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
Well, my comment was specific to the 8th AF in WW-II vs. the flying
from a carrier in WW-II. Neither was a good way to ensure longevity.
Neither the USAF nor the USN would today accept the loss rates that
were deemed normal back then, even in wartime.
But you have made a really good point Doc. I guess you just have to be
a way superior pilot to be able to fly onto a pitch-dark moving
postage stamp in the middle of the ocean.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 12
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On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mark Davis wrote:
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Can you imagine night-ops to a small axial-deck carrier without a
fresnel lens (ball) with the LSO giving commands with the paddles? The
way they flew off the boat back then just amazes the s--- out of me.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Pocket Project |
Very nice John.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:18 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Cockpit Pocket Project
> Thanks to all who offered advice on my cockpit pocket
> question. I removed the left vinyl padding from both
> cockpits and took them to a local upholstery store.
> Using thick, clear vinyl, I had them sew in 3 pockets
> in the front along with a pen holder and 2 pockets in
> the rear. It took them a few hours. Now my
> checklists, nausea bags, pens, sectionals are right
> where I need them. The larger pockets have a
> velcro-style strap that folds over them to prevent
> items from coming loose during aerobatics. Not bad
> for not a lot of money! Two pictures attached - more
> if you contact me off line.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> John P. Graham
> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Message 14
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The LSO's wore lighted suits including their legs. The closest we had
in my day was Station 3 MOVLAS where the manually operated landing aid was
on the right side of the landing area. Tended to make people drift right in
close to at the ramp. Lots of last minute "come left" calls. Never had to
fly or wave one at night. True practice bleeding. I'll always have
reverence for the Crusader and Whale guys that flew nights off of 27 Charlie
class carriers. My 113 night traps on Carl Vinson and Kitty Hawk were cake
compared to that.
As for axial deck night ops, as I understand it not everyone flew at
night. There were specific night fighter squadrons. Don't know whether it
was the better sticks or the FNG's that didn't know any better!
Mark Davis
N44K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mark Davis wrote:
>
>>
>> Doc,
>> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't
>> bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Can you imagine night-ops to a small axial-deck carrier without a fresnel
> lens (ball) with the LSO giving commands with the paddles? The way they
> flew off the boat back then just amazes the s--- out of me.
>
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> --
> 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
In a message dated 1/14/2008 10:14:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dougsappllc@gmail.com writes:
Spot on Cliff, except that you did not mention US customs and Brokerage
costs to import. If you draw the short straw and US customs decides to do an
"intensive" inspection with X-ray it could cost you another 500.00 plus a day
or
two delay. This has happened to me on the last two aircraft comming in from
China. US brokerage costs are about $250.00. All this via the Port of
Seattle.
Gone to Belize in 20 minutes...
Gone to Belize in 20 minutes? That means I have Kathryn all to my
self!!!!!!!!! :-))))))
Pappy
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 16
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In a message dated 1/14/2008 7:32:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark@pld.com writes:
According to some "expert" that hang around the bombers when we're out, the
8th Air Force had the 3rd highest causality rate of any service, in any
military during WW2. First was the German submarine service and second was the
US
Navy submarine service. That was causality rate, not total numbers. In one
raid over Germany the 8th lost 60 aircraft, that is 600 men in about a 7 to
8 hour time frame. Not all those were KIA of course and I don't know what
percentage of the total number that would have been.
The loss rate for the 8th was 8%. On some missions it was as high as 12.3%.
With a lost rate of 2% theoretically a crew had a 50/50 chance. At 4% no
one would go the whole 25 missions. When we're meet vets who flew the same
aircraft in Pacific, you hear they flew 80 - 90 - sometimes over 100 missions.
When I meet some of the old vets from the 8th and I hear they did 25-30 or 35
missions, I try to rub up against them, hoping some of their luck will rub
off.
BTW An excellent little history book on WW2, is Clash of Wings (World War II
In The Air) by Walter J. Boyne (Simon&Schuster). It has a lot of neat
little info like the name of the first ship ever sunk by a guided missile. The
Italian battleship Roma was sunk by a German bombardier Lt. Heinrich who guided
a Fritz-X missile dropped from Dornier DO 217. (page 204-205).
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
The LSO's wore lighted suits including their legs. The closest we had
in my day was Station 3 MOVLAS where the manually operated landing aid was
on the right side of the landing area. Tended to make people drift right in
close to at the ramp. Lots of last minute "come left" calls. Never had to
fly or wave one at night. True practice bleeding. I'll always have
reverence for the Crusader and Whale guys that flew nights off of 27 Charlie
class carriers. My 113 night traps on Carl Vinson and Kitty Hawk were cake
compared to that.
As for axial deck night ops, as I understand it not everyone flew at
night. There were specific night fighter squadrons. Don't know whether it
was the better sticks or the FNG's that didn't know any better!
Mark Davis
N44K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 4:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mark Davis wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <mark@pld.com>
>>
>> Doc,
>> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't
>> bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Can you imagine night-ops to a small axial-deck carrier without a fresnel
> lens (ball) with the LSO giving commands with the paddles? The way they
> flew off the boat back then just amazes the s--- out of me.
>
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a
ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.
No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:19 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 1/14/2008 7:32:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mark@pld.com
> writes:
>
>
> According to some "expert" that hang around the bombers when we're
> out, the 8th Air Force had the 3rd highest causality rate of any
> service, in any military during WW2. First was the German submarine
> service
I did specifically say "allied military" as I was aware that being on
a German submarine was a death sentence.
> and second was the US Navy submarine service.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that they were
surpassed, not surprisingly, by the Japanese Kamikaze Corps, not the
US Navy's Submarine Service. Therefore, my comment about the 8th Air
Force having the highest casualty rate of any allied military service
in WW-II is probably correct.
> That was causality rate, not total numbers.
Right. I was thinking specifically of one's chances of surviving the
war if one was in that service.
> In one raid over Germany the 8th lost 60 aircraft, that is 600 men
> in about a 7 to 8 hour time frame. Not all those were KIA of course
> and I don't know what percentage of the total number that would have
> been.
>
> The loss rate for the 8th was 8%. On some missions it was as high
> as 12.3%. With a lost rate of 2% theoretically a crew had a 50/50
> chance. At 4% no one would go the whole 25 missions. When we're
> meet vets who flew the same aircraft in Pacific, you hear they flew
> 80 - 90 - sometimes over 100 missions.
It wasn't nearly as bad in the Pacific.
> When I meet some of the old vets from the 8th and I hear they did
> 25-30 or 35 missions, I try to rub up against them, hoping some of
> their luck will rub off.
You should. They must have been lucky sum....
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 19
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On Jan 14, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Mark Davis wrote:
>
> The LSO's wore lighted suits including their legs. The closest we
> had in my day was Station 3 MOVLAS where the manually operated
> landing aid was on the right side of the landing area. Tended to
> make people drift right in close to at the ramp. Lots of last
> minute "come left" calls. Never had to fly or wave one at night.
> True practice bleeding. I'll always have reverence for the
> Crusader and Whale guys that flew nights off of 27 Charlie class
> carriers. My 113 night traps on Carl Vinson and Kitty Hawk were
> cake compared to that.
> As for axial deck night ops, as I understand it not everyone flew
> at night. There were specific night fighter squadrons. Don't know
> whether it was the better sticks or the FNG's that didn't know any
> better!
I went with my father to his air group reunion which was held in
conjunction with Tailhook in Reno about 6 years back. I listen to the
stories and I shake my head in wonder. Flying and aerial warfare was a
much more up-close-and-personal thing back then.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 20
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| Subject: | Shipping from Europe to USA |
Have you done the math on this one Brian? I.E., Assuming you put every bit of
useful load into fuel and a REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to
pull it off? How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add? At ANY
cost for the fuel tank. Drawing the line at re-engineering the wings let's
say.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA
Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a ferry tank
but it might be cheaper than shipping.
No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 21
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Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the year sleeping
under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in the middle of
one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest divert base is 2000
nm away all when you can't get fuel because the D#$M5@ receptacle door won't
cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't
bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 22
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Nah...just nuts!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Roger Kemp wrote:
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you.
> Thanks, I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down
> or try to runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
Well, my comment was specific to the 8th AF in WW-II vs. the flying
from a carrier in WW-II. Neither was a good way to ensure longevity.
Neither the USAF nor the USN would today accept the loss rates that
were deemed normal back then, even in wartime.
But you have made a really good point Doc. I guess you just have to be
a way superior pilot to be able to fly onto a pitch-dark moving
postage stamp in the middle of the ocean.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 23
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The US Navy's learning curve was as steep as the advancement of the
aircraft. Thach's and other veterans' section tactics and the transition
from Brewster Buffaloes and Wildcats to Hellcats reversed a horrible loss
ratio in a little over a years' time. A newbie in a Wildcat didn't fare
well against a seasoned Jap veteran. A well trained section of Hellcat
drivers using proper tactics feasted on Zeros.
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:19 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 1/14/2008 7:32:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>> mark@pld.com writes:
>>
>>
>> According to some "expert" that hang around the bombers when we're out,
>> the 8th Air Force had the 3rd highest causality rate of any service, in
>> any military during WW2. First was the German submarine service
>
> I did specifically say "allied military" as I was aware that being on a
> German submarine was a death sentence.
>
>> and second was the US Navy submarine service.
>
> Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that they were
> surpassed, not surprisingly, by the Japanese Kamikaze Corps, not the US
> Navy's Submarine Service. Therefore, my comment about the 8th Air Force
> having the highest casualty rate of any allied military service in WW-II
> is probably correct.
>
>> That was causality rate, not total numbers.
>
> Right. I was thinking specifically of one's chances of surviving the war
> if one was in that service.
>
>> In one raid over Germany the 8th lost 60 aircraft, that is 600 men in
>> about a 7 to 8 hour time frame. Not all those were KIA of course and I
>> don't know what percentage of the total number that would have been.
>>
>> The loss rate for the 8th was 8%. On some missions it was as high as
>> 12.3%. With a lost rate of 2% theoretically a crew had a 50/50 chance.
>> At 4% no one would go the whole 25 missions. When we're meet vets who
>> flew the same aircraft in Pacific, you hear they flew 80 - 90 -
>> sometimes over 100 missions.
>
> It wasn't nearly as bad in the Pacific.
>
>> When I meet some of the old vets from the 8th and I hear they did 25-30
>> or 35 missions, I try to rub up against them, hoping some of their luck
>> will rub off.
>
> You should. They must have been lucky sum....
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
Message 24
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Brain,
It is amazing what all the guys including my dad, step dad, your dad, the 80
+ y.o. P-47 and the 90 + y.o. B-17 drivers still flying out of my home drome
along will all those from the great generation that survived one of
history's greatest challenges in the fight for our freedom. What they did
was Herculean as is what our kids, my son included, are doing now to protect
our freedoms.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Mark Davis wrote:
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Can you imagine night-ops to a small axial-deck carrier without a
fresnel lens (ball) with the LSO giving commands with the paddles? The
way they flew off the boat back then just amazes the s--- out of me.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 25
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|
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 26
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Doc,
I had a stateroom under the jet blast deflector on Cat 1 on Carl Vinson
for one workup period. You didn't bother putting anything on a shelf
because it would be on the floor after the first launch! I've been out for
20 years and I still can sleep through about any noise, but a voice still
wakes me up. Go figure.
Mark Davis
N44YK
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:26 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Mark,
> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
> You are my hero!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't
> bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
> (former LSO)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>>
>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>> Brian,
>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>
>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>
>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 8:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of someone
watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off of a basket
equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>
> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>
> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
> can get in I suppose.
>
> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
> branches as well........
>
> Your friend,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Mark,
> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
> You are my hero!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
> (former LSO)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>>
>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>> Brian,
>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
>
>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>
>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>
>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 8:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
Pretty good! Never heard that one!
As I remember, the old 135's had no take up reel. Just like the USAF
too.... Instead of appreciating what came knocking, they tried to rip it
off at the root! :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:58
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of
someone watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off of
a basket
equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>
> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We
have
> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>
> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with
probes
> can get in I suppose.
>
> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
> branches as well........
>
> Your friend,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Mark,
> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang
in
> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the
nearest
> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
> You are my hero!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
> (former LSO)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>>
>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>> Brian,
>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you.
Thanks,
>
>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>
>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but
I
>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>
>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the
Army
>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 8:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
In a message dated 1/14/2008 9:41:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
"OOOOooooooooooooooo now there's a punch of 'inter service rivalry' i.e.
pussy's and dicks. One manly - one girly (or is it girlyman). Must be a
Marine who thinks up things like that. :-)))
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 30
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|
No take up reel or response, just push it forward until you got a big lazy
S. Too far forward and it would flip around in a circle and take out your
radome. Before you could back out and disconnect you had to get permission
from the boom operator. We had an Intruder that brought a basket back to
Carl Vinson while we were hanging around on Gonzo Station. Supposedly the
release mechanism failed to uncouple. He had gone through all the proper
voice calls before backing out. At least his obstructed view trap was in
the daytime. We were blue water and it removed any further tanking options.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:09 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Pretty good! Never heard that one!
>
> As I remember, the old 135's had no take up reel. Just like the USAF
> too.... Instead of appreciating what came knocking, they tried to rip it
> off at the root! :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:58
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of
> someone watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off of
> a basket
> equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Point,
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>>
>> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We
> have
>> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
>> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>>
>> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with
> probes
>> can get in I suppose.
>>
>> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
>> branches as well........
>>
>> Your friend,
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>>
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Mark,
>> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
>> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang
> in
>> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the
> nearest
>> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
>> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
>> You are my hero!
>>
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>> Doc,
>> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
>> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>>
>> Mark Davis
>> N44YK
>> (former LSO)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>>> Brian,
>>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you.
> Thanks,
>>
>>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>>> Doc
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>>
>>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but
> I
>>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>>
>>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the
> Army
>>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>>
>>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>>
>>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
>> 1B6C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 8:23 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the probe
as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the inter-a/c
intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a female.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 32
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|
Yeah, okay, I guarantee when she wants it in the first time, she puts it in!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of someone
watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off of a basket
equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>
> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>
> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
> can get in I suppose.
>
> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
> branches as well........
>
> Your friend,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Mark,
> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
> You are my hero!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
> (former LSO)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>>
>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>> Brian,
>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
>
>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>
>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>
>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 8:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 33
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So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
"Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
Sorry, I'll stop now...
Your Bud,
Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the
probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the
inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a
female.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 34
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USMC = Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
DaBear
USMC 1982-1988
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
>
>
> Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
> describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
>
> It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
>
> "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
>
> Sorry, I'll stop now...
>
> Your Bud,
>
> Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
>
>
Message 35
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|
You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've had
RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not tell
after a few to many San Migells what was or was not!
Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
"Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
Sorry, I'll stop now...
Your Bud,
Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the
probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the
inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a
female.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
Message 36
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|
Ah, Cubi Point and and across the beautiful Shit River the jewel of the PI,
Olongapo, the Disneyland for perverts! Home of the Vigi on a stick, monkey
meat on a stick, and girls with "bugs" that stick! Don't forget the baloots
also. Carl Vinson pulled in there with Enterprise and Ranger's
battlegroups. First time three battlegroups had been in there since VietNam
days. It required three generations of hookers working the same corners!
Kind of like calling up the Reserves....
Mark Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
> You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've had
> RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not tell
> after a few to many San Migells what was or was not!
> Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark
> G
> CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
>
>
> Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
> describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
>
> It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
>
> "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
>
> Sorry, I'll stop now...
>
> Your Bud,
>
> Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the
> probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the
> inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a
> female.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
> --> Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>
> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>
> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
> can get in I suppose.
>
> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
> branches as well........
>
> Your friend,
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Mark,
> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
> You are my hero!
>
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Doc,
> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
> (former LSO)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
>>
>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>> Brian,
>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
>
>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>
>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>
>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>
>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>
>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>
>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>
>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 8:23 PM
>>
>>
>
>
>
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What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Have you done the math on this one Brian?
Twice, but with a different aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52
but still single engine. I then flew the trips.
> I.E., Assuming you put every bit of useful load into fuel and a
> REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to pull it off?
Probably. I don't think there would be any problem doing it in a CJ. A
Yak-52 would be more of a challenge.
> How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add?
It is more of a space issue than a weight issue. I would have no
qualms about going off overgross. I don't plan any acro along the way.
The key would be how much fuel you could get into the back seat before
you hit the aft CG limit. Any place else you could put fuel would be
good too. But you won't need to add as much as you think.
> At ANY cost for the fuel tank. Drawing the line at re-engineering
> the wings let's say.
It is actually possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150.
More fuel means more options for stops but you would be surprised at
just how short the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The
northern route provide some other options for stops. For example:
Stornoway to the Faroes is about 250nm
Faroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple strips on E
Iceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.)
Reykjavik to Kulusuk is about 400 nm
Kulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm
Sondre Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm
(and I am across the Atlantic, 1760nm)
Qikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm
300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill
after that.
So longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours. Throw in 2
hours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 16GPH that
means I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have my Yak-52
W&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without being
behind the aft CG limit.
I would expect that this would take me a couple of weeks as I have to
catch the weather windows. Ain't no alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX
along this route in July/August is pretty good. I wouldn't expect to
have to wait more than two or three days for WX at any stop.
So, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds like fun. If anyone wants
a Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canada, let me know. You pay
for the ferry tank, all the consumable in the aircraft (fuel and oil),
my expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll fly it. I'll provide the
HF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comfortable custom seat
cushion from Oregon Aero. ;-)
>
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA
>
>
> Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a
> ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.
>
> No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
> things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>
>
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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