Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
2. 04:07 AM - Re: What is up with this 50? (GreasySideUp)
3. 04:26 AM - GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (B747crew)
4. 04:34 AM - Overhaul facility differences (GreasySideUp)
5. 04:38 AM - Engine Oil Question (B747crew)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 05:38 AM - Re: Overhaul facility differences (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 06:14 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (bill wade)
9. 06:30 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (A. Dennis Savarese)
10. 07:12 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (adrian a.hale)
11. 07:23 AM - Tool kit (John Graham)
12. 07:42 AM - Re: Tool kit (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 08:08 AM - Re: Tool kit (Roger Kemp)
14. 08:09 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Brian Lloyd)
15. 08:43 AM - Overhaul facilities (Richard Goode)
16. 08:51 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd)
17. 08:51 AM - CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Brian Lloyd)
18. 10:54 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (b747crew2003@aol.com)
19. 11:04 AM - Re: Tool kit (Hans Oortman 1)
20. 11:09 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com)
21. 11:22 AM - Re: Tool kit (A. Dennis Savarese)
22. 11:52 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (DaBear)
23. 12:08 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com)
24. 12:42 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Cliff Coy)
25. 12:56 PM - Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Roger Kemp)
26. 01:47 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
27. 02:53 PM - Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Craig Payne)
28. 02:56 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Herb Coussons)
29. 03:32 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd)
30. 03:40 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis)
31. 04:10 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
32. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Brian Lloyd)
33. 04:19 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com)
34. 04:20 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (A. Dennis Savarese)
35. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
36. 04:44 PM - Need Clean Pic (Cpayne)
37. 04:50 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
38. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
39. 05:07 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Brian Lloyd)
40. 05:19 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com)
41. 06:52 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp)
42. 07:21 PM - Re: Formation (cjpilot710@aol.com)
43. 08:13 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
44. 08:36 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
45. 08:52 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
46. 08:53 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
47. 09:10 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd)
48. 09:51 PM - Re: Formation (viperdoc)
Message 1
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The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site
is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I
haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try:
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to
visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I
believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see
me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club.
When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to
see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in
my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb
up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid
on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the
ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I
heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the
San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of
it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the
two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill
and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to
the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun!
Mark Davis
N44YK
What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Cubi Vigi
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What is up with this 50? |
Thread Revival.
In addition to the unanswered questions just above a few more.
Roger, did you take that 1st thread picture or is that one you found on the Internet
- that pic is being used in the sale of this plane, want to make sure I
am not wasting time with a scam.
Secondly, on the Yak Census site it is stated that these planes were built in lot
32 completely separate from the original production line for the movie directly.
The seller in Russia says it has never been modified which would concur
but I might be losing something in the translation. I think he is just representing
the plane and is not the owner. How is the turtledeck attached and is
it structurally the same plane? I am seriously considering this one if we can
work out the price but I am interested in 6g competition Acro and want to make
sure it will stay together.
Thanks again,
Josh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158250#158250
Message 3
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| Subject: | GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold weather
and have found based on installation information that the GT50 draws about .06
amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the hot bus. Has anyone
else experienced a problem with this unit draining down the ships batterys???
Thanks Jack Snodgrass
--------
Jack Snodgrass
4305 Claridge Ct.
Apex, NC 27539
808-371-2739
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
Message 4
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| Subject: | Overhaul facility differences |
It looks like there are 3 different overhaul facilities for these Yaks. Termikas
in Lithuania, Anbaras and Schachty, Russia. Could you all describe exactly
what was done to your yak at the various facilities? Is there any difference
between what each one does and the quality of work? Anything you were unhappy
with or issues that made it through that you later had to resolve? The main
question is what value does this overhaul add to the price I should pay for a
plane or should that overhaul even be a concern? Have the planes that have not
gone through one of these facilities been fully complied with on the AD's or
will that require a translator to figure out?
Additionally is one of these facilities in Rustov Russia?
Thanks again for all the replies, you all are a great resource. I have read every
thread on this board and the more I read the more questions I have.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158254#158254
Message 5
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| Subject: | Engine Oil Question |
As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>>
The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme cold weather
operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a requirement of
the oil tank, sump and oil cooler.
Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi grade
oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the oil cooler
with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature?
--------
Jack Snodgrass
4305 Claridge Ct.
Apex, NC 27539
919-745-7434
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil Question |
Do not dilute the oil with fuel. Use Philips 25W-60 multiviscosity aviation
oil. It was designed for radial engines. The oil cooler already has a
bypass valve in it. It is always a good idea in colder climates to preheat
the oil tank, sump AND the oil cooler before starting. Even if you preheat
the oil tank and sump, you don't want to take the chance the oil in the
hoses to and from the oil cooler plus the oil in the cooler itself can
damage the oil cooler. Just use common sense when preheating.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:37 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question
>
> As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>>
>
> The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme
> cold weather operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a
> requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler.
> Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi
> grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the
> oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature?
>
> --------
> Jack Snodgrass
> 4305 Claridge Ct.
> Apex, NC 27539
> 919-745-7434
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Overhaul facility differences |
The Lithuanian overhaul facilities should really be considered restoration
facilities. Restoration more closely describes what is done at the
Lithuanian facilities. Schachty is an IRAN facility and no where compares
to the Lithuanian factories. When an airframe is basically gutted and all
the parts inspected, repaired or replaced, that more closely describes a
restoration. We can certainly duplicate that in the US, but it will most
definitely cost more money.
As for value-added, it depends on what you are willing to spend because
budget is always the driving force behind the decision to buy an existing,
pre-owned airplane or to purchase effectively a zero time airframe, engine
and prop airplane from a restoration facility. The workmanship of the
Lithuania factories is superb to say the least. The fabric work is
phenomenal. Some of the best I have ever seen.
As I said previously, it really comes down to how much you want to spend.
It you want the best, then have Termikas do the restoration. If you contact
me off-line, I can help you with that since I am a Termikas dealer.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "GreasySideUp" <greasysideup@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Overhaul facility differences
>
> It looks like there are 3 different overhaul facilities for these Yaks.
> Termikas in Lithuania, Anbaras and Schachty, Russia. Could you all
> describe exactly what was done to your yak at the various facilities? Is
> there any difference between what each one does and the quality of work?
> Anything you were unhappy with or issues that made it through that you
> later had to resolve? The main question is what value does this overhaul
> add to the price I should pay for a plane or should that overhaul even be
> a concern? Have the planes that have not gone through one of these
> facilities been fully complied with on the AD's or will that require a
> translator to figure out?
>
> Additionally is one of these facilities in Rustov Russia?
>
> Thanks again for all the replies, you all are a great resource. I have
> read every thread on this board and the more I read the more questions I
> have.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158254#158254
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and flying fr
om the Back? =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Brian Lloyd <b
rian-1927@lloyd.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, January
15, 2008 1:47:51 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA=0A
=0AOn Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
ark G CIV Det Cherry =0A> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
=0A>=0A> Have you done the math on this one Brian?=0A=0ATwice, but with a d
ifferent aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52 =0Abut still single engi
ne. I then flew the trips.=0A=0A> I.E., Assuming you put every bit of usefu
l load into fuel and a =0A> REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough le
gs to pull it off?=0A=0AProbably. I don't think there would be any problem
doing it in a CJ. A =0AYak-52 would be more of a challenge.=0A=0A> How mu
ch fuel do you think it would be possible to add?=0A=0AIt is more of a spac
e issue than a weight issue. I would have no =0Aqualms about going off ove
rgross. I don't plan any acro along the way. =0AThe key would be how much
fuel you could get into the back seat before =0Ayou hit the aft CG limit
. Any place else you could put fuel would be =0Agood too. But you won't ne
ed to add as much as you think.=0A=0A> At ANY cost for the fuel tank. Draw
ing the line at re-engineering =0A> the wings let's say.=0A=0AIt is actual
ly possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150. =0AMore fuel mea
ns more options for stops but you would be surprised at =0Ajust how short
the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The =0Anorthern route provi
de some other options for stops. For example:=0A=0AStornoway to the Faroes
is about 250nm=0AFaroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple st
rips on E =0AIceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.)=0AReykjavik t
o Kulusuk is about 400 nm=0AKulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm=0ASondre
Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm =0A(and I a
m across the Atlantic, 1760nm)=0AQikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm
=0A300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill
=0Aafter that.=0A=0ASo longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours.
Throw in 2 =0Ahours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 1
6GPH that =0Ameans I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have
my Yak-52 =0AW&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without
being =0Abehind the aft CG limit.=0A=0AI would expect that this would take
me a couple of weeks as I have to =0Acatch the weather windows. Ain't no
alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX =0Aalong this route in July/August is pr
etty good. I wouldn't expect to =0Ahave to wait more than two or three day
s for WX at any stop.=0A=0ASo, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds lik
e fun. If anyone wants =0Aa Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canad
a, let me know. You pay =0Afor the ferry tank, all the consumable in the
aircraft (fuel and oil), =0Amy expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll
fly it. I'll provide the =0AHF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comf
ortable custom seat =0Acushion from Oregon Aero. ;-)=0A=0A>=0A>=0A> Mark B
itterlich=0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-yak-list-s
erver@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com =0A> ] On B
ehalf Of Brian Lloyd=0A> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00=0A> To: yak-l
ist@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA=0A
>=0A> Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a
=0A> ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.=0A>=0A> No, I have
n't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.=0A>=0A> --=0A> Brian L
loyd 3191 Western Drive=0A> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT llo
yd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682=0A> +1.916.367.2131 (voice)
yranny of petty =0A> things . . .=0A> - Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry=0A>=0A>
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=0A> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4
913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A =0A> 1B6C=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A--=0ABrian Lloyd 3
191 Western Drive=0Abrian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA
95682=0A+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)=0A=0AI fly
because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .=0A=97 A
ntoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry=0A=0APGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=0APGP
key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C=0A=0A
=====0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________
____________________________________=0ABe a better friend, newshound, and
=0Aknow-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_
ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ =0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone.
Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw
(6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem
unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold
> weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50
> draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the
> hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining
> down the ships batterys???
> Thanks Jack Snodgrass
>
> --------
> Jack Snodgrass
> 4305 Claridge Ct.
> Apex, NC 27539
> 808-371-2739
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil Question |
We use Phillips 25W60 av oil,---Works great, and less concern with cold
starts.
On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:37 AM, B747crew wrote:
>
> As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>>
>
> The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for
> extreme cold weather operations. I also understand that winter
> preheating is a requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler.
> Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade /
> multi grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for
> bypassing the oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches
> operating temperature?
>
> --------
> Jack Snodgrass
> 4305 Claridge Ct.
> Apex, NC 27539
> 919-745-7434
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256
>
>
Message 11
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As we northerners watch the cold temperatures
hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies
prepare for our first summer of events and air shows,
I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of
recommended tools that we should carry on board when
flying to distant events. I used to carry and old
Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my
Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed
something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and
repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit
list put together and would welcome everyone's comments.
Thanks,
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (847) 641-1330
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 12
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One Swiss Army Knife!!!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures
> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies
> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows,
> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of
> recommended tools that we should carry on board when
> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old
> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my
> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed
> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and
> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit
> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John P. Graham
> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>
>
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
>
>One Swiss Army Knife!!!
>Dennis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
>To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM
>Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
>
>>
>> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures
>> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies
>> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows,
>> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of
>> recommended tools that we should carry on board when
>> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old
>> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my
>> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed
>> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and
>> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit
>> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John P. Graham
>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>>
>>
>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 4:26 AM, B747crew wrote:
>
> I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very
> cold weather and have found based on installation information that
> the GT50 draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships
> batter via the hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with
> this unit draining down the ships batterys???
Almost all radios (and certainly all GPS's) use a small amount of
power to keep their memories alive. OTOH, most use some kind of
internal battery to perform the task as the power required is very,
very small, on the order of a few microamps. Very few use the
aircraft's battery simply because there is no guarantee that it will
always be there.
If your radio is indeed drawing 60mA (0.06A) from the battery, you can
count on that running a 25AH battery down in about 400 hours (about 17
days). Add to that the self-discharge rate of about 1% per day and you
begin to see why it is a good idea to keep your battery on a proper
float charge if you aren't going to be flying every week.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 15
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| Subject: | Overhaul facilities |
To correct misapprehensions:
a.. There are three overhaul facilities in Lithuania - Anabaras; Nerka
and Termikas. However Lithuania joined the European Union three years
ago, and this has significantly increased all local costs.
b.. Shakty is in Russia. Historically a big State funded factory, but
now definitely short of money; parts etc.
c.. As I have said before, particularly with Yak-50s, one needs to be
very careful that all the Service Bulletins have been completed. This
means not only logbook entries, but an inspection by someone who knows
these aircraft.
d.. Also, in my humble opinion 50s should not be flown hard unless all
Service Bulletins have been completed.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:13 AM, bill wade wrote:
> What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and
> flying from the Back?
The CJ6A has a few necessary controls that are not replicated in the
back seat and I believe the Yak-52 does too. (Louvers, oil cooler
door, and main air valve come to mind here.) I know there is a mod to
provide the temp controls in the back seat of the -52 but I am
wondering if there is anything else that is really critical. Nowadays
I do my Yak-52 flying from the front seat and the back is a bit hazy
to my mind right now.
BTW, WRT the routing, if I can fly 450nm legs I can jump from Kulusuk
to Nuuk, bypassing Sondre Stromfjord (big fee there as it is primarily
military and they extract their Kilogram of flesh to let you stop
there), and from there on to Iqaluit. That cuts off a leg or two.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 17
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And just to fire up an old argument, I have been alternating between a
CJ6A and a Yak-52 of late. I'm getting plenty of time in both. I
appreciate both aircraft and cannot for the life of me understand the
attempts to claim that one is better than the other. The Yak-52 rolls
a lot better. I can do a decent hammerhead in the -52. The -52
actually spins. I can barely fit in the -52 and can't reach the
switches on the right side panel or the air valve when strapped in
without dislocating my shoulder. The CJ6A is faster and seems to have
overall better control harmony. I just can't for the life of me figure
out how anyone can come to the conclusion that one is better than the
other.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Oil Question |
Thanks Dennis
=C2-Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 8:22 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question
m>=C2-
=C2-
Do not dilute the oil with fuel. Use Philips 25W-60 multiviscosity aviation
oil. It was designed for radial engines. The oil cooler already has a
bypass valve in it. It is always a good idea in colder climates to preheat
the oil tank, sump AND the oil cooler before starting. Even if you preheat
the oil tank and sump, you don't want to take the chance the oil in the
hoses to and from the oil cooler plus the oil in the cooler itself can
damage the oil cooler. Just use common sense when preheating.=C2-
Dennis=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com>=C2-
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:37 AM=C2-
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question=C2-
=C2-
>=C2-
> As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>>=C2-
>=C2-
> The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme
> cold weather operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a
> requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler.=C2-
> Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi
> grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the
> oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature?
=C2-
>=C2-
> --------=C2-
> Jack Snodgrass=C2-
> 4305 Claridge Ct.=C2-
> Apex, NC 27539=C2-
> 919-745-7434=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> Read this topic online here:=C2-
>=C2-
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> =C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 19
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And a hose to fill up the air tank!
Hans
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Kemp
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 januari 2008 17:08
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit
That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
>One Swiss Army Knife!!!
>Dennis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
>To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM
>Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
>
>>
>> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures
>> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies
>> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows,
>> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of
>> recommended tools that we should carry on board when
>> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old
>> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my
>> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed
>> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and
>> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit
>> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John P. Graham
>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>>
>>
>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Dennis;
=C2-=C2- Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the
problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th GT50
is a "Flight Data Systems".=C2-
=C2-=C2- When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sur
e that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( None
of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off individually ) Now
when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to about 6 VDC. from a full
charge. That said I reason the only things that could have drawn down the s
hips battery was either the GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short s
omewhere in the system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the
aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corro
ded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but
will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs
to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... =C2-Your Thoug
hts?? By the way did you get my check?
Kindest =C2-Regards
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
m>=C2-
=C2-
Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone.
Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw
(6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem
unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year.=C2-
Dennis=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com>=C2-
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM=C2-
Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52=C2-
=C2-
>=C2-
> I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold
> weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50
> draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the
> hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining
> down the ships batterys???=C2-
> Thanks Jack Snodgrass=C2-
>=C2-
> --------=C2-
> Jack Snodgrass=C2-
> 4305 Claridge Ct.=C2-
> Apex, NC 27539=C2-
> 808-371-2739=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> Read this topic online here:=C2-
>=C2-
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> =C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 21
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Nahhh! :-) If you get a case of the "dumb ass" and leave the air turned
on, learn how to properly hand prop the engine.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Oortman 1" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
> And a hose to fill up the air tank!
>
> Hans
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Kemp
> Verzonden: dinsdag 15 januari 2008 17:08
> Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
> Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit
>
>
> That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit
>>
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>>
>>One Swiss Army Knife!!!
>>Dennis
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "John Graham" <cubflyer1940@yahoo.com>
>>To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM
>>Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures
>>> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies
>>> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows,
>>> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of
>>> recommended tools that we should carry on board when
>>> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old
>>> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my
>>> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed
>>> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and
>>> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit
>>> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John P. Graham
>>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
>>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Off the wall question...
Do you have something run directly off the battery such as a NR headset
power connector? I had my NR headset that would run the battery down in
about 2 weeks.
DaBear
b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
> Dennis;
> Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the
> problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th
> GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
> When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure
> that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. (
> None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
> individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
> about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things
> that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the
> GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere.
> Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
> origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted
> me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
> weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on
> an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By
> the way did you get my check?
> Kindest Regards
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com <mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>>
>
> Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the
> phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06
> amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not
> be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for
> a year.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com
> <mailto:B747crew2003@aol.com>>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> <mailto:B747crew2003@aol.com>>
> >
> > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very
> cold > weather and have found based on installation information that
> the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships
> batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with
> this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> > Thanks Jack Snodgrass
> >
> > --------
> > Jack Snodgrass
> > 4305 Claridge Ct.
> > Apex, NC 27539
> > 808-371-2739
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ===========
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===========
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ===========
> blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===========
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003>!
> *
>
>
> *
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Nope nothing like that ... it has an EFIS system with battery backup and a G
PS. The efis has a trickle charge to keep the internal battery charged but t
hats it.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 2:51 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
=C2-
Off the wall question...=C2-
=C2-
Do you have something run directly off the battery such as a NR headset
power connector? I had my NR headset that would run the battery down in
about 2 weeks.=C2-
=C2-
DaBear=C2-
=C2-
b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:=C2-
> Dennis;=C2-
> Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the
> problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th
> GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
> When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure
> that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. (
> None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
> individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
> about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things
> that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the
> GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere.
> Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
> origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted
> me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
> weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on
> an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By
> the way did you get my check?=C2-
> Kindest Regards=C2-
> Jack=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> -----Original Message-----=C2-
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>=C2-
> To: yak-list@matronics.com=C2-
> Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am=C2-
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52=C2-
>=C2-
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com <mailto:dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>>
>
> Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the
> phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06
> amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not
> be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for
> a year.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com
> <mailto:B747crew2003@aol.com>>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> <mailto:B747crew2003@aol.com>>
> >
> > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very
> cold > weather and have found based on installation information that
> the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships
> batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with
> this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> > Thanks Jack Snodgrass
> >
> > --------
> > Jack Snodgrass
> > 4305 Claridge Ct.
> > Apex, NC 27539
> > 808-371-2739
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ===========
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ===========
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ===========
> blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===========
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=C2-
> <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid
=aolcmp00050000000003>!=C2-
> *=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> *=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle-Pac.
200# all up in the back seat.
bill wade wrote:
> What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and
> flying from the Back?
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:47:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA
>
> <mailto:brian-1927@lloyd.com>>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>
> > Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
> <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>>
> >
> > Have you done the math on this one Brian?
>
> Twice, but with a different aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52
> but still single engine. I then flew the trips.
>
> > I.E., Assuming you put every bit of useful load into fuel and a
> > REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to pull it off?
>
> Probably. I don't think there would be any problem doing it in a CJ. A
> Yak-52 would be more of a challenge.
>
> > How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add?
>
> It is more of a space issue than a weight issue. I would have no
> qualms about going off overgross. I don't plan any acro along the way.
> The key would be how much fuel you could get into the back seat before
> you hit the aft CG limit. Any place else you could put fuel would be
> good too. But you won't need to add as much as you think.
>
> > At ANY cost for the fuel tank. Drawing the line at re-engineering
> > the wings let's say.
>
> It is actually possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150.
> More fuel means more options for stops but you would be surprised at
> just how short the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The
> northern route provide some other options for stops. For example:
>
> Stornoway to the Faroes is about 250nm
> Faroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple strips on E
> Iceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.)
> Reykjavik to Kulusuk is about 400 nm
> Kulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm
> Sondre Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm
> (and I am across the Atlantic, 1760nm)
> Qikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm
> 300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill
> after that.
>
> So longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours. Throw in 2
> hours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 16GPH that
> means I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have my Yak-52
> W&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without being
> behind the aft CG limit.
>
> I would expect that this would take me a couple of weeks as I have to
> catch the weather windows. Ain't no alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX
> along this route in July/August is pretty good. I wouldn't expect to
> have to wait more than two or three days for WX at any stop.
>
> So, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds like fun. If anyone wants
> a Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canada, let me know. You pay
> for the ferry tank, all the consumable in the aircraft (fuel and oil),
> my expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll fly it. I'll provide the
> HF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comfortable custom seat
> cushion from Oregon Aero. ;-)
>
> >
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com>
> > ] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA
> >
> <mailto:brian-1927@lloyd.com>>
> >
> > Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a
> > ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.
> >
> > No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.
> >
> > --
> > Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> > brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
> >
> > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty
> > things . . .
> > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
> >
> > PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> > PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> > 1B6C
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> http://wwwhttp://forums.matronics.com/"
> target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> vt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs"> Make Yahoo your homepage.
> *
>
>
> *
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 25
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It is all in the eye of the beholder. A cockroach is beautiful to another
cockroach.
The 52 will out turn and roll a stock CJ. The super CJ will give the 52 a
run for the money in turn with its' ability to sustain its' energy in the
turn. As for roll with the super CJ, that does not improve.
The 50 is an entirely different story though as compared to both the CJ and
the 52.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:49 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6A vs Yak-52
And just to fire up an old argument, I have been alternating between a
CJ6A and a Yak-52 of late. I'm getting plenty of time in both. I
appreciate both aircraft and cannot for the life of me understand the
attempts to claim that one is better than the other. The Yak-52 rolls
a lot better. I can do a decent hammerhead in the -52. The -52
actually spins. I can barely fit in the -52 and can't reach the
switches on the right side panel or the air valve when strapped in
without dislocating my shoulder. The CJ6A is faster and seems to have
overall better control harmony. I just can't for the life of me figure
out how anyone can come to the conclusion that one is better than the
other.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 26
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YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is
responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't
been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try:
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to
visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I
believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me
and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When
she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the
inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I
jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of
the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the
fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was
prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you
doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when
I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the
tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there.
They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred
to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always
screwed up everything fun!
Mark Davis
N44YK
What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
Cubi Vigi
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 |
Brain,
You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the Yak-52 wars?
One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it couldn't provide
the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P can provide. In your
own words: it depends on what you want.
Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will quickly hit
200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak will snap if aggravated.
Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked about with
good stick feel.
On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. OTOH. in formation
with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, since we now report fuel
state in time units, It's great to call out "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks
report "45 minutes".
Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>)
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or
other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers
that are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put
up for the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will
drain the battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to
disconnect the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the
codes in the clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up
with no power. I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts
to the posts and then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is
mounted under the hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it
works great.
Herb
On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
> Dennis;
> Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the
> problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening.
> Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
> When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure
> that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off.
> ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
> individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down
> to about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only
> things that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the
> GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the
> system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the
> aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals
> were corroded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't
> yet installed but will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the
> entire avionics package needs to be on an avionics bus with a
> seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get
> my check?
> Kindest Regards
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> >
>
> Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the
> phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .
> 06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should
> not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft
> stored for a year.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" <B747crew2003@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> >
> > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in
> very cold > weather and have found based on installation information
> that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by
> the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a
> problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> > Thanks Jack Snodgrass
> >
> > --------
> > Jack Snodgrass
> > 4305 Claridge Ct.
> > Apex, NC 27539
> > 808-371-2739
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ==========
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Cliff Coy wrote:
>
> Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle-
> Pac. 200# all up in the back seat.
I might want a bit more than 30 gal for this trip. I would actually
want an additional 55gal or so over and above the standard fuel in the
wings.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 30
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Doc,
What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group
trying to get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on
a stick with a proper paint job.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM
To: GJHagstrom@aol.com; yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi
site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club.
I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try:
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to
visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I
believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see
me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club.
When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to
see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in
my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb
up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid
on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the
ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I
heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the
San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of
it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the
two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill
and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to
the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun!
Mark Davis
N44YK
What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link
attachments:
Cubi Vigi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
1/14/2008 5:39 PM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a
handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of
batteries, especially old ones.
However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best
answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to
turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things,
etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off
the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just
took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the
meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the
meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then
you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything
turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN
before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply
it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some
fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries.
I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor
arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be
done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries,
putting on a trickle charger etc.
Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current
draw. It's a 5 minute task.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or
other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that
are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for
the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the
battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect
the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the
clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power.
I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and
then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the
hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great.
Herb
On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
Dennis;
Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out
the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening.
Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was
sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off.
( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that
could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50
unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now
when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me
to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an
avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the
way did you get my check?
Kindest Regards
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on
the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet?
.06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not
be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a
year.
Dennis
----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew"
<B747crew2003@aol.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
<B747crew2003@aol.com>
>
> I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in
very cold > weather and have found based on installation information
that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the
ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem
with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> Thanks Jack Snodgrass
>
> --------
> Jack Snodgrass
> 4305 Claridge Ct.
> Apex, NC 27539
> 808-371-2739
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
p://forums.matronics.com
===========
blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
________________________________
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?nci
d=aolcmp00050000000003> !
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Brain,
>
> You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the
> Yak-52 wars?
Yup. And now that I am getting more time in the Yak-52, I am not
feeling the same superiority for the CJ6A. While I think that the two
airplanes have complementary features, I am far less likely to pick
one over the other.
> One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it
> couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P
> can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want.
Well, speaking of "kick in the ass" the Yak-52 I'm flying has the
400hp engine. Regardless, "kick in the ass" is going to be a function
primarily of power loading. And
And that is my point, it depends on what you want. Frankly, I enjoy
flying both airplanes. I can't say which I would prefer as each has
its advantages and disadvantages. If I am out just yankin' and bankin'
I like the Yak-52 better.
> Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will
> quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak
> will snap if aggravated.
Their behavior is different in an accelerated stall but I wouldn't say
that the Yak-52 "snaps". It stalls. So the wing doesn't have quite as
much washout as the CJ6A does. That means the stall is going to
progress more rapidly and it isn't quite so easy to hold it in the
buffet. Just relax the back pressure or be sure you are on top of the
rudder to prevent rotation. No fuss.
> Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked
> about with good stick feel.
I'm not sure I would categorize the Yak-52 as having "bad stick feel"
at the low end either. I can feel the softness in pitch as I am
getting close to the edge.
> On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts.
> OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH,
> since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out
> "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes".
>
> Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>)
Both are good airplanes. (I have to admit, I've never met an airplane
I didn't like.) I still don't see how one can claim that it is better
than the other.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Mark;
=C2-=C2-What good advice. I'll do exactly that.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@
navy.mil>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 7:07 pm
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a
handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of
batteries, especially old ones.
However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best
answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to
turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things,
etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off
the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just
took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the
meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the
meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then
you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything
turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN
before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply
it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some
fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries.
I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor
arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be
done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries,
putting on a trickle charger etc.
Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current
draw. It's a 5 minute task.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or
other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that
are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for
the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the
battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect
the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the
clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power.
I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and
then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the
hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great.
Herb
On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
Dennis;
Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out
the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening.
Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was
sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off.
( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that
could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50
unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now
when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me
to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an
avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the
way did you get my check?
Kindest Regards
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on
the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet?
.06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not
be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a
year.
Dennis
----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew"
<B747crew2003@aol.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
<B747crew2003@aol.com>
>
> I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in
very cold > weather and have found based on installation information
that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the
ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem
with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> Thanks Jack Snodgrass
>
> --------
> Jack Snodgrass
> 4305 Claridge Ct.
> Apex, NC 27539
> 808-371-2739
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
p://forums.matronics.com
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blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
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d=aolcmp00050000000003> !
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Thanks Mark. You're right on the money....again. The batteries in Jack's
newly acquired 52W are most likely the originals. Thus '99 or 2000 vintage.
7 or 8 years on batteries is unheard of. It is definitely time to replace
them.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a
> handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of
> batteries, especially old ones.
>
> However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best
> answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to
> turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things,
> etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off
> the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just
> took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the
> meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the
> meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then
> you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything
> turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN
> before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply
> it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some
> fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries.
>
> I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor
> arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be
> done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries,
> putting on a trickle charger etc.
>
> Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current
> draw. It's a 5 minute task.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or
> other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that
> are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for
> the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the
> battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect
> the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the
> clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power.
> I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and
> then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the
> hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Dennis;
> Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out
> the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening.
> Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
> When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was
> sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off.
> ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
> individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
> about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that
> could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50
> unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now
> when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
> origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me
> to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
> weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an
> avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the
> way did you get my check?
> Kindest Regards
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
>
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on
> the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet?
> .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not
> be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a
> year.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew"
> <B747crew2003@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> <B747crew2003@aol.com>
> >
> > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in
> very cold > weather and have found based on installation information
> that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the
> ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem
> with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> > Thanks Jack Snodgrass
> >
> > --------
> > Jack Snodgrass
> > 4305 Claridge Ct.
> > Apex, NC 27539
> > 808-371-2739
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ==========
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
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>
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> d=aolcmp00050000000003> !
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 |
Craig... The more control authority an aircraft has, the easier it is to
snap if aggravated. The 52 is approved for the complete list of ARESTI
manuevers, and is built for the G loading and necessary performance that
this calls for. The CJ-6 is not. The CJ-6 does not have the control
authority that the YAK-52 does, or it would do the same. The 52 also is
allowed a higher G loading that the CJ.
I agree the CJ is a faster aircraft. No question. I was not aware that
a stock CJ-6 could accelerate to 230 miles per hour in level flight.
That's very impressive. No Yak can meet that kind of level flight
speed. My 50 with a stock 360 M-14P and a 2 blade will just BARELY do
200 mph WFO. However, I do believe that YAKS have a higher Vne, so if
one starts heading towards the deck, it can outrun the CJ, losing energy
all the way of course.
Possibly you are talking about a CJ-6 with a souped up M-14 on it? No
question that a CJ-6 with a 120 or more horsepower improvement over
stock would start to become a serious competitor for a stock YAK-52.
My comment is only because I was not sure exactly what you were
comparing?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:51
Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52
Brain,
You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the
Yak-52 wars? One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice,
but it couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced"
M-14P can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want.
Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will
quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak
will snap if aggravated. Then there is the low speed end where the CJ
can still be yanked about with good stick feel.
On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. OTOH.
in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, since we
now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out "5 hours"
(with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes".
Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>)
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 36
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|
I'm working on creating a special award to be presented at Oshkosh. Looking for
that rare shot of a CJ in STOCK paint in sharp focus, outlined in the sky with
no other background, other than Mother Nature with plenty of pixels to work
with.
The perfect candidate will be forever enshrined in laser etched brass,
but here is what I need first:
- no broken arrows on the side
- no nose art
- no extra bands, rings, etc.
- no camo jobs
- no Yakkity Yak WW-II wannabe paint schemes
- no giant spinners like the one I have
- no Malcom canopies
A "stock" paint job consists of green top/slate blue bottom with authentic flying
school numbers in White, I know how to interpret the number schemes.
I have plenty of Yak-52 pics but I'm not sure what "stock" is. All these airplanes
and damn few really good pics, sigh....
Craig Payne
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
I am sure you are absolutely correct Dennis. Same thing happened to Tom
Johnson's 50. Batteries that old are just waiting to fail on you
completely when you least expect it... Like cold weather.
By the way, I am not sure how to spell "Desulfator"... Anyway, the
device that puts out about a 3 Mhz pulse and blasts the plates clean on
batteries. Darn things are amazing, and using them can actually extend
aircraft battery life to twice or even thrice normal age. Considering
you can buy one in kit form for about $25, they are a steal. I have 2
gel cells that were totally dead (off of an electric wheel chair... 12
volt 35 AH jobs), that I ran one of these devices for two weeks straight
on. They now charge and work perfectly. That is in the "WOW" category.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 19:18
Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
--> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Thanks Mark. You're right on the money....again. The batteries in
Jack's newly acquired 52W are most likely the originals. Thus '99 or
2000 vintage.
7 or 8 years on batteries is unheard of. It is definitely time to
replace them.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a
> handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of
> batteries, especially old ones.
>
> However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best
> answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need
to
> turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other
things,
> etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead
off
> the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just
> took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming
the
> meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the
> meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then
> you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything
> turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN
> before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to
supply
> it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some
> fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries.
>
> I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor
> arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should
be
> done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries,
> putting on a trickle charger etc.
>
> Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the
current
> draw. It's a 5 minute task.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb
Coussons
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or
> other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers
that
> are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for
> the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain
the
> battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect
> the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the
> clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no
power.
> I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and
> then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the
> hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great.
>
> Herb
>
>
> On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Dennis;
> Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out
> the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening.
> Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".
> When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was
> sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing
off.
> ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off
> individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to
> about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things
that
> could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50
> unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now
> when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be
> origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted
me
> to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next
> weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on
an
> avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By
the
> way did you get my check?
> Kindest Regards
> Jack
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
>
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on
> the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet?
> .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should
not
> be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for
a
> year.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew"
> <B747crew2003@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
>
> <B747crew2003@aol.com>
> >
> > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in
> very cold > weather and have found based on installation information
> that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the
> ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem
> with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???
> > Thanks Jack Snodgrass
> >
> > --------
> > Jack Snodgrass
> > 4305 Claridge Ct.
> > Apex, NC 27539
> > 808-371-2739
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ==========
> t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> ==========
> p://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?nci
> d=aolcmp00050000000003> !
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
> ntribution
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Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 |
Ah... Better than the other! I concur... To define which is better, one
would have to define: "Better at what" ???
I think the best answer would be to have one of each. (@!!@)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 19:11
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52
On Jan 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Craig Payne wrote:
>
> Brain,
>
> You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the
> Yak-52 wars?
Yup. And now that I am getting more time in the Yak-52, I am not feeling
the same superiority for the CJ6A. While I think that the two airplanes
have complementary features, I am far less likely to pick one over the
other.
> One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it
> couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P
> can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want.
Well, speaking of "kick in the ass" the Yak-52 I'm flying has the 400hp
engine. Regardless, "kick in the ass" is going to be a function
primarily of power loading. And
And that is my point, it depends on what you want. Frankly, I enjoy
flying both airplanes. I can't say which I would prefer as each has its
advantages and disadvantages. If I am out just yankin' and bankin'
I like the Yak-52 better.
> Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will
> quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak
> will snap if aggravated.
Their behavior is different in an accelerated stall but I wouldn't say
that the Yak-52 "snaps". It stalls. So the wing doesn't have quite as
much washout as the CJ6A does. That means the stall is going to progress
more rapidly and it isn't quite so easy to hold it in the buffet. Just
relax the back pressure or be sure you are on top of the rudder to
prevent rotation. No fuss.
> Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked about
> with good stick feel.
I'm not sure I would categorize the Yak-52 as having "bad stick feel"
at the low end either. I can feel the softness in pitch as I am getting
close to the edge.
> On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts.
> OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH,
> since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out
> "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes".
>
> Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>)
Both are good airplanes. (I have to admit, I've never met an airplane I
didn't like.) I still don't see how one can claim that it is better than
the other.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:07 AM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:
> somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they
> appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so
> that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but
> will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics
> package needs to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master
> sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get my check?
As the resident electrical geek (I didn't get the callsign "sparky"
for nothing) I have a few comments and/or suggestions.
Hopefully you received my earlier post where I pointed out that a 60mA
constant drain on a 25AH battery will drain it in about 17 days. If
your GT50 does have a "keep alive" circuit that is directly wired to
the battery, bypassing the master contactor, it will drain the battery
as you have described. Do put on a float charger that will keep the
battery charged even under the small load imposed by the GT50's keep-
alive circuit.
As for an avionics master, they are not a great idea. You are wiring
everything through that one switch which, if it fails, takes out all
your radios. It isn't hard to turn on each of the boxes. Most of us do
not have more than about three boxes to turn on, e.g. GPS,
transponders, and nav/com (or just com). For that matter you don't
even need to turn them off. The main master switch will do that just
fine.
Sounds to me like you might have a combination of a bad battery and a
constant drain. A good idea is to take the batteries out, charge them
fully, and then do a load test. A 25AH battery should be able to carry
a 20A load for an hour. Put a couple of landing lights on there and
see how long they run. (Stop the test when the voltage reaches 11V for
a 12V battery or 22V for a 24V battery.)
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 |
Thanks Brian ;
=C2-=C2- =C2- I very much appreciate the helpful advice.=C2-
=C2-=C2- =C2-What a great web site where folks are so pleased to offer
their support.
=C2-=C2- Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52
=C2-
On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:07 AM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:=C2-
=C2-
> somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they > appe
ar to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so > that promp
ted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but > will this next
weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics > package needs to be on an a
vionics bus with a seperate master > sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way
did you get my check?=C2-
=C2-
As the resident electrical geek (I didn't get the callsign "sparky" for noth
ing) I have a few comments and/or suggestions.=C2-
=C2-
Hopefully you received my earlier post where I pointed out that a 60mA const
ant drain on a 25AH battery will drain it in about 17 days. If your GT50 doe
s have a "keep alive" circuit that is directly wired to the battery, bypassi
ng the master contactor, it will drain the battery as you have described. Do
put on a float charger that will keep the battery charged even under the sm
all load imposed by the GT50's keep-alive circuit.=C2-
=C2-
As for an avionics master, they are not a great idea. You are wiring everyth
ing through that one switch which, if it fails, takes out all your radios. I
t isn't hard to turn on each of the boxes. Most of us do not have more than
about three boxes to turn on, e.g. GPS, transponders, and nav/com (or just c
om). For that matter you don't even need to turn them off. The main master s
witch will do that just fine.=C2-
=C2-
Sounds to me like you might have a combination of a bad battery and a consta
nt drain. A good idea is to take the batteries out, charge them fully, and t
hen do a load test. A 25AH battery should be able to carry a 20A load for an
hour. Put a couple of landing lights on there and see how long they run. (S
top the test when the voltage reaches 11V for a 12V battery or 22V for a 24V
battery.)=C2-
=C2-
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive=C2-
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682=C2-
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)=C2-
=C2-
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=C2-
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C=C2
-
=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
=C2-
________________________________________________________________________
aol.com
Message 41
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One can only hope that happens! The paint job is pure desecration!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group
trying to get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on a
stick with a proper paint job.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Kemp <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is
responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't
been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try:
http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to
visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I
believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me
and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When
she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the
inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I
jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of
the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the
fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was
prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you
doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when
I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the
tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there.
They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred
to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always
screwed up everything fun!
Mark Davis
N44YK
What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
Cubi Vigi
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
Release Date: 1/14/2008 5:39 PM
Message 42
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In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:53:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
viperdoc@mindspring.com writes:
Oh I don't know. It kind of give it some class. ;-/
Pappy
One can only hope that happens! The paint job is pure desecration!
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group trying to
get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on a stick with
a
proper paint job.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: _Roger Kemp_ (mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com)
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
YGTBSMlook at that gay paint scheme!
Doc
From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Davis
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM
_yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is
responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't
been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try:
_http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175_
(http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175) I got to
visit with a couple of nice Shore
Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top o
f
it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at th
e
Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I too
k
a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu
and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and
proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had ple
nty
of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high of
f
of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I
heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San
Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I
walked
back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I
was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife
unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer
.
Those guys always screwed up everything fun!
Mark Davis
N44YK
What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ??
Gary Hagstrom
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments
:
Cubi Vigi
e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
**************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
Message 43
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| Subject: | Shipping from Europe to USA |
Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF? Tell
me you don't extend a trailing wire?
Mark
wa3jpy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:47
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA
On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:13 AM, bill wade wrote:
> What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and
> flying from the Back?
The CJ6A has a few necessary controls that are not replicated in the
back seat and I believe the Yak-52 does too. (Louvers, oil cooler door,
and main air valve come to mind here.) I know there is a mod to provide
the temp controls in the back seat of the -52 but I am wondering if
there is anything else that is really critical. Nowadays I do my Yak-52
flying from the front seat and the back is a bit hazy to my mind right
now.
BTW, WRT the routing, if I can fly 450nm legs I can jump from Kulusuk to
Nuuk, bypassing Sondre Stromfjord (big fee there as it is primarily
military and they extract their Kilogram of flesh to let you stop
there), and from there on to Iqaluit. That cuts off a leg or two.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 44
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I have seen one of those rip the probe right off the end of the boom on
an A-6.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:26
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
No take up reel or response, just push it forward until you got a big
lazy S. Too far forward and it would flip around in a circle and take
out your radome. Before you could back out and disconnect you had to
get permission from the boom operator. We had an Intruder that brought
a basket back to Carl Vinson while we were hanging around on Gonzo
Station. Supposedly the release mechanism failed to uncouple. He had
gone through all the proper voice calls before backing out. At least
his obstructed view trap was in the daytime. We were blue water and it
removed any further tanking options.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:09 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Pretty good! Never heard that one!
>
> As I remember, the old 135's had no take up reel. Just like the USAF
> too.... Instead of appreciating what came knocking, they tried to rip
it
> off at the root! :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:58
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of
> someone watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off
of
> a basket
> equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : )
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>
>
> Point,
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Sheesh... Air Force folks....
>>
>> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We
> have
>> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
>> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
>>
>> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with
> probes
>> can get in I suppose.
>>
>> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
>> branches as well........
>>
>> Your friend,
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
>>
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Mark,
>> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out
the
>> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang
> in
>> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the
> nearest
>> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
>> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
>> You are my hero!
>>
>> Doc
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>> Doc,
>> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
>> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
>>
>> Mark Davis
>> N44YK
>> (former LSO)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
>>> Brian,
>>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you.
> Thanks,
>>
>>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try
to
>>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
>>> Doc
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>>>
>>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation
will
>>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but
> I
>>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>>>
>>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise
that
>>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the
> Army
>>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and
more
>>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>>>
>>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>>
>>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
>> 1B6C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 8:23 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 45
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Yep... That would be me. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
USMC = Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
DaBear
USMC 1982-1988
Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote:
> --> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by
guys?
>
>
> Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
> describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
>
> It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
>
> "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
>
> Sorry, I'll stop now...
>
> Your Bud,
>
> Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
>
>
Message 46
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Doc, if you never got a chance to go to the P.I., there is very little
that can be said that would truly describe it. By and large, I think it
is pretty much gone now anyway... At least from what it used to be. The
wild wild west had NOTHING on that place. I spent a lot of time down
there as a Marine, both on the boat and off. Was there on the Midway,
and the Coral Sea in the 70's, and then spent lots of months there
deployed with VMAQ-2 during the 80's, then as a Tech Rep in the 90's.
Once Mount Pinatubo went up, Clark AFB (sheesh what a place that was
too!) just went off the map, and Olongapo was pretty badly damaged as
well.
No... I have never been "plugged" period. We were always the plugger
and never the pluggee. Seriously now... You have seen the difference
between what the USAF uses and what the USN/USMC uses correct? The two
systems are indeed 180 out from each other.
The beer was San Miguel by the way.... Your spelling indeed reflects how
it is pronounced. The only place that came close to Cubi and Olongapo
was possibly Taichung in Taiwan during the Vietnam years. This was a
staging point for Nam and was also pretty wild. The taxi drivers were
actually wilder... Which is truly saying something. Hong Kong is
actually mild compared to those two places.
Lots of good memories. Some not so good as well! :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've
had RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not
tell after a few to many San Migells what was or was not!
Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
"Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
Sorry, I'll stop now...
Your Bud,
Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the
probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the
inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a
female.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Shipping from Europe to USA |
On Jan 15, 2008, at 8:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF? Tell
> me you don't extend a trailing wire?
There are a couple of ways to go but I prefer the trailing-wire-with-
drogue myself. I used a plastic funnel as the drogue. I can reel the
antenna in or out to tune it. It works well.
I might do things differently now. I have a couple of automatic tuners
that do everything for you. I would probably run a wire from the back
of the canopy to the top of the VS and then out to the right wingtip.
The tuner will be perfectly happy with that. The antenna is long
enough to be relatively efficient down to 2.5MHz and the airframe is a
good counterpoise.
OTOH, one doesn't really need HF when going the northern route. There
is almost continuous VHF coverage up there.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 48
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Indeed tanking is 180 out Navy/Marines vs Air Force. Have heard tales and
seen a few safety reports with 5X8 glossies of baskets stuck on the end of
the probe and the other way around. The 135 guys were not too happy to bring
home extra hardware. I have seen probes jammed and broken off in the
receptacle also. That got to be a bit dicey for the Eagle driver that
brought the proboncis home too. Can't imagine trying to do an obstructed
trap. Those were some huge brass kahonas! Can pretty well imagine there were
some 55 Buick size skid marks in his shorts when that nose gunner managed to
extract the seat cushion from his rosey pink and slide down the rail.
Nope, never got to Clarke. My squadron's South Pacific tour was cut short
with the decision to close down Cope Thunder there and move it to Alaska!
Just not the same.
Have sampled that formaldehyde laden San Miguel courtesy of some heavy
drivers though. Guess that falls in the category of "slept in a Holiday Inn
Express" huh. Unfortunately have treated some of those bugs that stuck too!
They grow some pretty bad shit in the P.I.! It does not die easily!
Yes, guess we were the US's misguide Children (and for some still are). A
lot of growing up done then and even now for those still on the Tip! Would
not trade those experiences for anything. Well, maybe a few less hangovers
and 100% O2...maybe! Damned, hate having to grow up and become an adult
supervisor!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:49 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Doc, if you never got a chance to go to the P.I., there is very little
that can be said that would truly describe it. By and large, I think it
is pretty much gone now anyway... At least from what it used to be. The
wild wild west had NOTHING on that place. I spent a lot of time down
there as a Marine, both on the boat and off. Was there on the Midway,
and the Coral Sea in the 70's, and then spent lots of months there
deployed with VMAQ-2 during the 80's, then as a Tech Rep in the 90's.
Once Mount Pinatubo went up, Clark AFB (sheesh what a place that was
too!) just went off the map, and Olongapo was pretty badly damaged as
well.
No... I have never been "plugged" period. We were always the plugger
and never the pluggee. Seriously now... You have seen the difference
between what the USAF uses and what the USN/USMC uses correct? The two
systems are indeed 180 out from each other.
The beer was San Miguel by the way.... Your spelling indeed reflects how
it is pronounced. The only place that came close to Cubi and Olongapo
was possibly Taichung in Taiwan during the Vietnam years. This was a
staging point for Nam and was also pretty wild. The taxi drivers were
actually wilder... Which is truly saying something. Hong Kong is
actually mild compared to those two places.
Lots of good memories. Some not so good as well! :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've
had RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not
tell after a few to many San Migells what was or was not!
Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys?
Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough,
describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)!
It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE!
"Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....."
Sorry, I'll stop now...
Your Bud,
Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the
probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the
inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a
female.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sheesh... Air Force folks....
Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have
refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes
they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big.
Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes
can get in I suppose.
I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service
branches as well........
Your friend,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation
Mark,
You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the
year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in
the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest
divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the
D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open.
You are my hero!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
Doc,
You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster
doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : )
Mark Davis
N44YK
(former LSO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>
> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier.
> Brian,
> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks,
> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to
> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark!
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation
>>
>>
>>
>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> From a fellow CAF aviator:
>>>
>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will
>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!!
>>
>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty
>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I
>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them.
>>
>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that
>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my
>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army
>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office
>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate
>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at
>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs,
>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more
>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany.
>>
>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 8:23 PM
>
>
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