---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/15/08: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:00 AM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis) 2. 04:07 AM - Re: What is up with this 50? (GreasySideUp) 3. 04:26 AM - GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (B747crew) 4. 04:34 AM - Overhaul facility differences (GreasySideUp) 5. 04:38 AM - Engine Oil Question (B747crew) 6. 05:24 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (A. Dennis Savarese) 7. 05:38 AM - Re: Overhaul facility differences (A. Dennis Savarese) 8. 06:14 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (bill wade) 9. 06:30 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (A. Dennis Savarese) 10. 07:12 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (adrian a.hale) 11. 07:23 AM - Tool kit (John Graham) 12. 07:42 AM - Re: Tool kit (A. Dennis Savarese) 13. 08:08 AM - Re: Tool kit (Roger Kemp) 14. 08:09 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Brian Lloyd) 15. 08:43 AM - Overhaul facilities (Richard Goode) 16. 08:51 AM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd) 17. 08:51 AM - CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Brian Lloyd) 18. 10:54 AM - Re: Engine Oil Question (b747crew2003@aol.com) 19. 11:04 AM - Re: Tool kit (Hans Oortman 1) 20. 11:09 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com) 21. 11:22 AM - Re: Tool kit (A. Dennis Savarese) 22. 11:52 AM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (DaBear) 23. 12:08 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com) 24. 12:42 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Cliff Coy) 25. 12:56 PM - Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Roger Kemp) 26. 01:47 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp) 27. 02:53 PM - Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Craig Payne) 28. 02:56 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Herb Coussons) 29. 03:32 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd) 30. 03:40 PM - Re: Formation (Mark Davis) 31. 04:10 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 32. 04:14 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Brian Lloyd) 33. 04:19 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com) 34. 04:20 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (A. Dennis Savarese) 35. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 36. 04:44 PM - Need Clean Pic (Cpayne) 37. 04:50 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 38. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 39. 05:07 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (Brian Lloyd) 40. 05:19 PM - Re: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 (b747crew2003@aol.com) 41. 06:52 PM - Re: Formation (Roger Kemp) 42. 07:21 PM - Re: Formation (cjpilot710@aol.com) 43. 08:13 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 44. 08:36 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 45. 08:52 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 46. 08:53 PM - Re: Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 47. 09:10 PM - Re: Shipping from Europe to USA (Brian Lloyd) 48. 09:51 PM - Re: Formation (viperdoc) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:48 AM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try: http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun! Mark Davis N44YK What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ?? Gary Hagstrom The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Cubi Vigi ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:13 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: What is up with this 50? From: "GreasySideUp" Thread Revival. In addition to the unanswered questions just above a few more. Roger, did you take that 1st thread picture or is that one you found on the Internet - that pic is being used in the sale of this plane, want to make sure I am not wasting time with a scam. Secondly, on the Yak Census site it is stated that these planes were built in lot 32 completely separate from the original production line for the movie directly. The seller in Russia says it has never been modified which would concur but I might be losing something in the translation. I think he is just representing the plane and is not the owner. How is the turtledeck attached and is it structurally the same plane? I am seriously considering this one if we can work out the price but I am interested in 6g competition Acro and want to make sure it will stay together. Thanks again, Josh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158250#158250 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:52 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: "B747crew" I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50 draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining down the ships batterys??? Thanks Jack Snodgrass -------- Jack Snodgrass 4305 Claridge Ct. Apex, NC 27539 808-371-2739 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:14 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Overhaul facility differences From: "GreasySideUp" It looks like there are 3 different overhaul facilities for these Yaks. Termikas in Lithuania, Anbaras and Schachty, Russia. Could you all describe exactly what was done to your yak at the various facilities? Is there any difference between what each one does and the quality of work? Anything you were unhappy with or issues that made it through that you later had to resolve? The main question is what value does this overhaul add to the price I should pay for a plane or should that overhaul even be a concern? Have the planes that have not gone through one of these facilities been fully complied with on the AD's or will that require a translator to figure out? Additionally is one of these facilities in Rustov Russia? Thanks again for all the replies, you all are a great resource. I have read every thread on this board and the more I read the more questions I have. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158254#158254 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:12 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question From: "B747crew" As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>> The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme cold weather operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler. Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature? -------- Jack Snodgrass 4305 Claridge Ct. Apex, NC 27539 919-745-7434 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:03 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question Do not dilute the oil with fuel. Use Philips 25W-60 multiviscosity aviation oil. It was designed for radial engines. The oil cooler already has a bypass valve in it. It is always a good idea in colder climates to preheat the oil tank, sump AND the oil cooler before starting. Even if you preheat the oil tank and sump, you don't want to take the chance the oil in the hoses to and from the oil cooler plus the oil in the cooler itself can damage the oil cooler. Just use common sense when preheating. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:37 AM Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question > > As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>> > > The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme > cold weather operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a > requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler. > Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi > grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the > oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature? > > -------- > Jack Snodgrass > 4305 Claridge Ct. > Apex, NC 27539 > 919-745-7434 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:19 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Overhaul facility differences The Lithuanian overhaul facilities should really be considered restoration facilities. Restoration more closely describes what is done at the Lithuanian facilities. Schachty is an IRAN facility and no where compares to the Lithuanian factories. When an airframe is basically gutted and all the parts inspected, repaired or replaced, that more closely describes a restoration. We can certainly duplicate that in the US, but it will most definitely cost more money. As for value-added, it depends on what you are willing to spend because budget is always the driving force behind the decision to buy an existing, pre-owned airplane or to purchase effectively a zero time airframe, engine and prop airplane from a restoration facility. The workmanship of the Lithuania factories is superb to say the least. The fabric work is phenomenal. Some of the best I have ever seen. As I said previously, it really comes down to how much you want to spend. It you want the best, then have Termikas do the restoration. If you contact me off-line, I can help you with that since I am a Termikas dealer. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "GreasySideUp" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:33 AM Subject: Yak-List: Overhaul facility differences > > It looks like there are 3 different overhaul facilities for these Yaks. > Termikas in Lithuania, Anbaras and Schachty, Russia. Could you all > describe exactly what was done to your yak at the various facilities? Is > there any difference between what each one does and the quality of work? > Anything you were unhappy with or issues that made it through that you > later had to resolve? The main question is what value does this overhaul > add to the price I should pay for a plane or should that overhaul even be > a concern? Have the planes that have not gone through one of these > facilities been fully complied with on the AD's or will that require a > translator to figure out? > > Additionally is one of these facilities in Rustov Russia? > > Thanks again for all the replies, you all are a great resource. I have > read every thread on this board and the more I read the more questions I > have. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158254#158254 > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:53 AM PST US From: bill wade Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and flying fr om the Back? =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Brian Lloyd =0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:47:51 AM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA=0A =0AOn Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, ark G CIV Det Cherry =0A> Point, MALS-14 64E" =0A>=0A> Have you done the math on this one Brian?=0A=0ATwice, but with a d ifferent aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52 =0Abut still single engi ne. I then flew the trips.=0A=0A> I.E., Assuming you put every bit of usefu l load into fuel and a =0A> REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough le gs to pull it off?=0A=0AProbably. I don't think there would be any problem doing it in a CJ. A =0AYak-52 would be more of a challenge.=0A=0A> How mu ch fuel do you think it would be possible to add?=0A=0AIt is more of a spac e issue than a weight issue. I would have no =0Aqualms about going off ove rgross. I don't plan any acro along the way. =0AThe key would be how much fuel you could get into the back seat before =0Ayou hit the aft CG limit . Any place else you could put fuel would be =0Agood too. But you won't ne ed to add as much as you think.=0A=0A> At ANY cost for the fuel tank. Draw ing the line at re-engineering =0A> the wings let's say.=0A=0AIt is actual ly possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150. =0AMore fuel mea ns more options for stops but you would be surprised at =0Ajust how short the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The =0Anorthern route provi de some other options for stops. For example:=0A=0AStornoway to the Faroes is about 250nm=0AFaroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple st rips on E =0AIceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.)=0AReykjavik t o Kulusuk is about 400 nm=0AKulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm=0ASondre Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm =0A(and I a m across the Atlantic, 1760nm)=0AQikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm =0A300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill =0Aafter that.=0A=0ASo longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours. Throw in 2 =0Ahours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 1 6GPH that =0Ameans I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have my Yak-52 =0AW&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without being =0Abehind the aft CG limit.=0A=0AI would expect that this would take me a couple of weeks as I have to =0Acatch the weather windows. Ain't no alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX =0Aalong this route in July/August is pr etty good. I wouldn't expect to =0Ahave to wait more than two or three day s for WX at any stop.=0A=0ASo, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds lik e fun. If anyone wants =0Aa Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canad a, let me know. You pay =0Afor the ferry tank, all the consumable in the aircraft (fuel and oil), =0Amy expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll fly it. I'll provide the =0AHF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comf ortable custom seat =0Acushion from Oregon Aero. ;-)=0A=0A>=0A>=0A> Mark B itterlich=0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-yak-list-s erver@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com =0A> ] On B ehalf Of Brian Lloyd=0A> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00=0A> To: yak-l ist@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA=0A >=0A> Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a =0A> ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping.=0A>=0A> No, I have n't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud.=0A>=0A> --=0A> Brian L loyd 3191 Western Drive=0A> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT llo yd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682=0A> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) yranny of petty =0A> things . . .=0A> - Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry=0A>=0A> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=0A> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4 913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A =0A> 1B6C=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A--=0ABrian Lloyd 3 191 Western Drive=0Abrian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682=0A+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)=0A=0AI fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .=0A=97 A ntoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry=0A=0APGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=0APGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C=0A=0A =====0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________ ____________________________________=0ABe a better friend, newshound, and =0Aknow-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ =0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:55 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold > weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > -------- > Jack Snodgrass > 4305 Claridge Ct. > Apex, NC 27539 > 808-371-2739 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:39 AM PST US From: "adrian a.hale" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question We use Phillips 25W60 av oil,---Works great, and less concern with cold starts. On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:37 AM, B747crew wrote: > > As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>> > > The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for > extreme cold weather operations. I also understand that winter > preheating is a requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler. > Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / > multi grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for > bypassing the oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches > operating temperature? > > -------- > Jack Snodgrass > 4305 Claridge Ct. > Apex, NC 27539 > 919-745-7434 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:01 AM PST US From: John Graham Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit As we northerners watch the cold temperatures hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies prepare for our first summer of events and air shows, I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of recommended tools that we should carry on board when flying to distant events. I used to carry and old Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit list put together and would welcome everyone's comments. Thanks, John P. Graham CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com Cell phone (847) 641-1330 Looking for last minute shopping deals? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:06 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit One Swiss Army Knife!!! Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Graham" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit > > As we northerners watch the cold temperatures > hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies > prepare for our first summer of events and air shows, > I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of > recommended tools that we should carry on board when > flying to distant events. I used to carry and old > Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my > Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed > something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and > repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit > list put together and would welcome everyone's comments. > > Thanks, > > John P. Graham > CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com > Cell phone (847) 641-1330 > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:34 AM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool. Doc -----Original Message----- >From: "A. Dennis Savarese" >Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit > > >One Swiss Army Knife!!! >Dennis > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Graham" >To: "Yak list" >Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM >Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit > > >> >> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures >> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies >> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows, >> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of >> recommended tools that we should carry on board when >> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old >> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my >> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed >> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and >> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit >> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John P. Graham >> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com >> Cell phone (847) 641-1330 >> >> >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:10 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 On Jan 15, 2008, at 4:26 AM, B747crew wrote: > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very > cold weather and have found based on installation information that > the GT50 draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships > batter via the hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with > this unit draining down the ships batterys??? Almost all radios (and certainly all GPS's) use a small amount of power to keep their memories alive. OTOH, most use some kind of internal battery to perform the task as the power required is very, very small, on the order of a few microamps. Very few use the aircraft's battery simply because there is no guarantee that it will always be there. If your radio is indeed drawing 60mA (0.06A) from the battery, you can count on that running a 25AH battery down in about 400 hours (about 17 days). Add to that the self-discharge rate of about 1% per day and you begin to see why it is a good idea to keep your battery on a proper float charge if you aren't going to be flying every week. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:57 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Yak-List: Overhaul facilities To correct misapprehensions: a.. There are three overhaul facilities in Lithuania - Anabaras; Nerka and Termikas. However Lithuania joined the European Union three years ago, and this has significantly increased all local costs. b.. Shakty is in Russia. Historically a big State funded factory, but now definitely short of money; parts etc. c.. As I have said before, particularly with Yak-50s, one needs to be very careful that all the Service Bulletins have been completed. This means not only logbook entries, but an inspection by someone who knows these aircraft. d.. Also, in my humble opinion 50s should not be flown hard unless all Service Bulletins have been completed. Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Herefordshire HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Mob: +44 (0) 7768 610389 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:15 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:13 AM, bill wade wrote: > What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and > flying from the Back? The CJ6A has a few necessary controls that are not replicated in the back seat and I believe the Yak-52 does too. (Louvers, oil cooler door, and main air valve come to mind here.) I know there is a mod to provide the temp controls in the back seat of the -52 but I am wondering if there is anything else that is really critical. Nowadays I do my Yak-52 flying from the front seat and the back is a bit hazy to my mind right now. BTW, WRT the routing, if I can fly 450nm legs I can jump from Kulusuk to Nuuk, bypassing Sondre Stromfjord (big fee there as it is primarily military and they extract their Kilogram of flesh to let you stop there), and from there on to Iqaluit. That cuts off a leg or two. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:40 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: CJ6A vs Yak-52 And just to fire up an old argument, I have been alternating between a CJ6A and a Yak-52 of late. I'm getting plenty of time in both. I appreciate both aircraft and cannot for the life of me understand the attempts to claim that one is better than the other. The Yak-52 rolls a lot better. I can do a decent hammerhead in the -52. The -52 actually spins. I can barely fit in the -52 and can't reach the switches on the right side panel or the air valve when strapped in without dislocating my shoulder. The CJ6A is faster and seems to have overall better control harmony. I just can't for the life of me figure out how anyone can come to the conclusion that one is better than the other. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question From: b747crew2003@aol.com Thanks Dennis =C2-Jack -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 8:22 am Subject: Re: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question m>=C2- =C2- Do not dilute the oil with fuel. Use Philips 25W-60 multiviscosity aviation oil. It was designed for radial engines. The oil cooler already has a bypass valve in it. It is always a good idea in colder climates to preheat the oil tank, sump AND the oil cooler before starting. Even if you preheat the oil tank and sump, you don't want to take the chance the oil in the hoses to and from the oil cooler plus the oil in the cooler itself can damage the oil cooler. Just use common sense when preheating.=C2- Dennis=C2- =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" =C2- Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:37 AM=C2- Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Question=C2- =C2- >=C2- > As I'm new to my Yak52 I have a question of the group>>>>=C2- >=C2- > The M14P operations manual calls for oil dilution with gas for extreme > cold weather operations. I also understand that winter preheating is a > requirement of the oil tank, sump and oil cooler.=C2- > Has there been any consideration given to use of a lighter grade / multi > grade oil in cold weather or is there any modification for bypassing the > oil cooler with a thermostat until the oil reaches operating temperature? =C2- >=C2- > --------=C2- > Jack Snodgrass=C2- > 4305 Claridge Ct.=C2- > Apex, NC 27539=C2- > 919-745-7434=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > Read this topic online here:=C2- >=C2- > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158256#158256=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > =C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________ aol.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:20 AM PST US From: "Hans Oortman 1" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Tool kit And a hose to fill up the air tank! Hans -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Kemp Verzonden: dinsdag 15 januari 2008 17:08 Aan: yak-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool. Doc -----Original Message----- >From: "A. Dennis Savarese" >Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit > > >One Swiss Army Knife!!! >Dennis > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Graham" >To: "Yak list" >Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM >Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit > > >> >> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures >> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies >> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows, >> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of >> recommended tools that we should carry on board when >> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old >> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my >> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed >> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and >> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit >> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John P. Graham >> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com >> Cell phone (847) 641-1330 >> >> >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: b747crew2003@aol.com Dennis; =C2-=C2- Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems".=C2- =C2-=C2- When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sur e that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that could have drawn down the s hips battery was either the GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short s omewhere in the system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corro ded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... =C2-Your Thoug hts?? By the way did you get my check? Kindest =C2-Regards Jack -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 m>=C2- =C2- Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year.=C2- Dennis=C2- =C2- ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" =C2- Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM=C2- Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52=C2- =C2- >=C2- > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold > weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys???=C2- > Thanks Jack Snodgrass=C2- >=C2- > --------=C2- > Jack Snodgrass=C2- > 4305 Claridge Ct.=C2- > Apex, NC 27539=C2- > 808-371-2739=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > Read this topic online here:=C2- >=C2- > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > =C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________ aol.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:35 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit Nahhh! :-) If you get a case of the "dumb ass" and leave the air turned on, learn how to properly hand prop the engine. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Oortman 1" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:03 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Tool kit > > And a hose to fill up the air tank! > > Hans > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Roger Kemp > Verzonden: dinsdag 15 januari 2008 17:08 > Aan: yak-list@matronics.com > Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit > > > That and a Leatherman multipurpose tool. > Doc > > -----Original Message----- >>From: "A. Dennis Savarese" >>Sent: Jan 15, 2008 9:41 AM >>To: yak-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tool kit >> > >> >>One Swiss Army Knife!!! >>Dennis >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "John Graham" >>To: "Yak list" >>Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:22 AM >>Subject: Yak-List: Tool kit >> >> >>> >>> As we northerners watch the cold temperatures >>> hopefully slowly fade into spring and us Yak newbies >>> prepare for our first summer of events and air shows, >>> I was wondering if anyone had a laundry list of >>> recommended tools that we should carry on board when >>> flying to distant events. I used to carry and old >>> Dopp kit filled with abour 20 items when I flew my >>> Piper J-3 Cub across country and I never needed >>> something I didn't have to make minor adjustments and >>> repairs. I'd like to get a comprehensive tool kit >>> list put together and would welcome everyone's comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> John P. Graham >>> CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com >>> Cell phone (847) 641-1330 >>> >>> >>> Looking for last minute shopping deals? >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:30 AM PST US From: DaBear Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Off the wall question... Do you have something run directly off the battery such as a NR headset power connector? I had my NR headset that would run the battery down in about 2 weeks. DaBear b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: > Dennis; > Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the > problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th > GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". > When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure > that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( > None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off > individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to > about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things > that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the > GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. > Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be > origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted > me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next > weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on > an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By > the way did you get my check? > Kindest Regards > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > From: A. Dennis Savarese > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am > Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the > phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 > amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not > be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for > a year. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very > cold > weather and have found based on installation information that > the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships > batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with > this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > > > -------- > > Jack Snodgrass > > 4305 Claridge Ct. > > Apex, NC 27539 > > 808-371-2739 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > =========== > p://forums.matronics.com > =========== > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ! > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: b747crew2003@aol.com Nope nothing like that ... it has an EFIS system with battery backup and a G PS. The efis has a trickle charge to keep the internal battery charged but t hats it. Jack -----Original Message----- From: DaBear Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 2:51 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 =C2- Off the wall question...=C2- =C2- Do you have something run directly off the battery such as a NR headset power connector? I had my NR headset that would run the battery down in about 2 weeks.=C2- =C2- DaBear=C2- =C2- b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:=C2- > Dennis;=C2- > Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the > problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th > GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". > When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure > that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( > None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off > individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to > about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things > that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the > GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. > Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be > origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted > me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next > weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on > an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By > the way did you get my check?=C2- > Kindest Regards=C2- > Jack=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > -----Original Message-----=C2- > From: A. Dennis Savarese =C2- > To: yak-list@matronics.com=C2- > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am=C2- > Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52=C2- >=C2- > > > > Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the > phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 > amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not > be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for > a year. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very > cold > weather and have found based on installation information that > the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships > batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with > this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > > > -------- > > Jack Snodgrass > > 4305 Claridge Ct. > > Apex, NC 27539 > > 808-371-2739 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > =========== > p://forums.matronics.com > =========== > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =========== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =C2- > !=C2- > *=C2- >=C2- >=C2- > *=C2- =C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________ aol.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:18 PM PST US From: Cliff Coy Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle-Pac. 200# all up in the back seat. bill wade wrote: > What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and > flying from the Back? > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Brian Lloyd > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 1:47:51 AM > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA > > > > > > On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:47 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, > MALS-14 64E wrote: > > > Point, MALS-14 64E" > > > > > Have you done the math on this one Brian? > > Twice, but with a different aircraft. A skosh faster than the Yak-52 > but still single engine. I then flew the trips. > > > I.E., Assuming you put every bit of useful load into fuel and a > > REALLY light pilot... Would you have enough legs to pull it off? > > Probably. I don't think there would be any problem doing it in a CJ. A > Yak-52 would be more of a challenge. > > > How much fuel do you think it would be possible to add? > > It is more of a space issue than a weight issue. I would have no > qualms about going off overgross. I don't plan any acro along the way. > The key would be how much fuel you could get into the back seat before > you hit the aft CG limit. Any place else you could put fuel would be > good too. But you won't need to add as much as you think. > > > At ANY cost for the fuel tank. Drawing the line at re-engineering > > the wings let's say. > > It is actually possible to cross the Atlantic in an unmodified C-150. > More fuel means more options for stops but you would be surprised at > just how short the legs can be. Shannon to Gander is 1700 nm. The > northern route provide some other options for stops. For example: > > Stornoway to the Faroes is about 250nm > Faroes to Reykjavik is about 450 nm (There are a couple strips on E > Iceland if you want to cut the distance a bit.) > Reykjavik to Kulusuk is about 400 nm > Kulusuk to Sondre Stromfjord is 340nm > Sondre Stromfjord to Qikiqtarjuaq (CYVM), Baffin Is, Canada, is 320nm > (and I am across the Atlantic, 1760nm) > Qikiqtarjuaq to Iqualuit (CYFB), is 260nm > 300nm more and I am at Tasiujaq (CYTQ) in Quebec. It is all downhill > after that. > > So longest leg is 450nm. At 130 kts that is 3.5 hours. Throw in 2 > hours of reserve and I need to carry 5.5 hours of fuel. At 16GPH that > means I need 56 gallons or 336lb of extra fuel. I don't have my Yak-52 > W&B but I bet one could put that into the back seat without being > behind the aft CG limit. > > I would expect that this would take me a couple of weeks as I have to > catch the weather windows. Ain't no alternates on this trip. OTOH, WX > along this route in July/August is pretty good. I wouldn't expect to > have to wait more than two or three days for WX at any stop. > > So, yeah, this is doable. In fact, it sounds like fun. If anyone wants > a Yak-52 ferried from Europe to the US or Canada, let me know. You pay > for the ferry tank, all the consumable in the aircraft (fuel and oil), > my expenses, and a reasonable per-diem, I'll fly it. I'll provide the > HF radio. Oh, and don't forget the really comfortable custom seat > cushion from Oregon Aero. ;-) > > > > > > > Mark Bitterlich > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > ] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:00 > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA > > > > > > > > Has anyone flown a Yak across the pond? Sure it costs for fuel and a > > ferry tank but it might be cheaper than shipping. > > > > No, I haven't done a cost analysis. I was just thinking aloud. > > > > -- > > Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive > > brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 > > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty > > things . . . > > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C > > PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A > > 1B6C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive > brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C > PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C > > > http://wwwhttp://forums.matronics.com/" > target=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com > > > vt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs"> Make Yahoo your homepage. > * > > > * -- Clifford Coy Director of Maintenance Border Air Ltd 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:49 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6A vs Yak-52 It is all in the eye of the beholder. A cockroach is beautiful to another cockroach. The 52 will out turn and roll a stock CJ. The super CJ will give the 52 a run for the money in turn with its' ability to sustain its' energy in the turn. As for roll with the super CJ, that does not improve. The 50 is an entirely different story though as compared to both the CJ and the 52. Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:49 AM Subject: Yak-List: CJ6A vs Yak-52 And just to fire up an old argument, I have been alternating between a CJ6A and a Yak-52 of late. I'm getting plenty of time in both. I appreciate both aircraft and cannot for the life of me understand the attempts to claim that one is better than the other. The Yak-52 rolls a lot better. I can do a decent hammerhead in the -52. The -52 actually spins. I can barely fit in the -52 and can't reach the switches on the right side panel or the air valve when strapped in without dislocating my shoulder. The CJ6A is faster and seems to have overall better control harmony. I just can't for the life of me figure out how anyone can come to the conclusion that one is better than the other. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:02 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme! Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try: http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun! Mark Davis N44YK What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ?? Gary Hagstrom Cubi Vigi ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:53:23 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 Brain, You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the Yak-52 wars? One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want. Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak will snap if aggravated. Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked about with good stick feel. On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes". Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>) Craig Payne cpayne@joimail.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:12 PM PST US From: Herb Coussons Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power. I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great. Herb On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: > Dennis; > Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the > problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. > Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". > When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure > that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. > ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off > individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down > to about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only > things that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the > GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the > system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the > aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals > were corroded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't > yet installed but will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the > entire avionics package needs to be on an avionics bus with a > seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get > my check? > Kindest Regards > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > From: A. Dennis Savarese > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am > Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the > phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? . > 06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should > not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft > stored for a year. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in > very cold > weather and have found based on installation information > that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by > the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a > problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > > > -------- > > Jack Snodgrass > > 4305 Claridge Ct. > > Apex, NC 27539 > > 808-371-2739 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > ========== > p://forums.matronics.com > ========== > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:27 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA On Jan 15, 2008, at 12:38 PM, Cliff Coy wrote: > > Ahh...just take the back stick out and strap in a 30gallon Turtle- > Pac. 200# all up in the back seat. I might want a bit more than 30 gal for this trip. I would actually want an additional 55gal or so over and above the standard fuel in the wings. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:35 PM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Doc, What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group trying to get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on a stick with a proper paint job. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme! Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM To: GJHagstrom@aol.com; yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try: http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun! Mark Davis N44YK What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ?? Gary Hagstrom The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Cubi Vigi ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 1/14/2008 5:39 PM ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:18 PM PST US Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of batteries, especially old ones. However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things, etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries. I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries, putting on a trickle charger etc. Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current draw. It's a 5 minute task. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54 Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power. I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great. Herb On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: Dennis; Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get my check? Kindest Regards Jack -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold > weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > -------- > Jack Snodgrass > 4305 Claridge Ct. > Apex, NC 27539 > 808-371-2739 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > =========== t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List =========== p://forums.matronics.com =========== blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== ________________________________ ! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:10 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 On Jan 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Craig Payne wrote: > > Brain, > > You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the > Yak-52 wars? Yup. And now that I am getting more time in the Yak-52, I am not feeling the same superiority for the CJ6A. While I think that the two airplanes have complementary features, I am far less likely to pick one over the other. > One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it > couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P > can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want. Well, speaking of "kick in the ass" the Yak-52 I'm flying has the 400hp engine. Regardless, "kick in the ass" is going to be a function primarily of power loading. And And that is my point, it depends on what you want. Frankly, I enjoy flying both airplanes. I can't say which I would prefer as each has its advantages and disadvantages. If I am out just yankin' and bankin' I like the Yak-52 better. > Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will > quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak > will snap if aggravated. Their behavior is different in an accelerated stall but I wouldn't say that the Yak-52 "snaps". It stalls. So the wing doesn't have quite as much washout as the CJ6A does. That means the stall is going to progress more rapidly and it isn't quite so easy to hold it in the buffet. Just relax the back pressure or be sure you are on top of the rudder to prevent rotation. No fuss. > Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked > about with good stick feel. I'm not sure I would categorize the Yak-52 as having "bad stick feel" at the low end either. I can feel the softness in pitch as I am getting close to the edge. > On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. > OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, > since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out > "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes". > > Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>) Both are good airplanes. (I have to admit, I've never met an airplane I didn't like.) I still don't see how one can claim that it is better than the other. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: b747crew2003@aol.com Mark; =C2-=C2-What good advice. I'll do exactly that. Jack -----Original Message----- From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 7:07 pm Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 MALS-14 64E" A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of batteries, especially old ones. However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things, etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries. I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries, putting on a trickle charger etc. Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current draw. It's a 5 minute task. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54 Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power. I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great. Herb On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: Dennis; Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50 unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get my check? Kindest Regards Jack -----Original Message----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a year. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in very cold > weather and have found based on installation information that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > -------- > Jack Snodgrass > 4305 Claridge Ct. > Apex, NC 27539 > 808-371-2739 > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > =========== t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List =========== p://forums.matronics.com =========== blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== ________________________________ ! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution ________________________________________________________________________ aol.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:02 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Thanks Mark. You're right on the money....again. The batteries in Jack's newly acquired 52W are most likely the originals. Thus '99 or 2000 vintage. 7 or 8 years on batteries is unheard of. It is definitely time to replace them. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > MALS-14 64E" > > A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a > handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of > batteries, especially old ones. > > However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best > answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to > turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things, > etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off > the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just > took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the > meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the > meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then > you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything > turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN > before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply > it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some > fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries. > > I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor > arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be > done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries, > putting on a trickle charger etc. > > Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current > draw. It's a 5 minute task. > > Mark Bitterlich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or > other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that > are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for > the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the > battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect > the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the > clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power. > I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and > then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the > hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great. > > Herb > > > On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: > > > Dennis; > Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out > the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. > Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". > When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was > sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. > ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off > individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to > about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that > could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50 > unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now > when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be > origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me > to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next > weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an > avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the > way did you get my check? > Kindest Regards > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > From: A. Dennis Savarese > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am > Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on > the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? > .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not > be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a > year. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in > very cold > weather and have found based on installation information > that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the > ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem > with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > > > -------- > > Jack Snodgrass > > 4305 Claridge Ct. > > Apex, NC 27539 > > 808-371-2739 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > ========== > p://forums.matronics.com > ========== > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ > > d=aolcmp00050000000003> ! > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. > com/Navigator?Yak-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co > ntribution > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:18 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Craig... The more control authority an aircraft has, the easier it is to snap if aggravated. The 52 is approved for the complete list of ARESTI manuevers, and is built for the G loading and necessary performance that this calls for. The CJ-6 is not. The CJ-6 does not have the control authority that the YAK-52 does, or it would do the same. The 52 also is allowed a higher G loading that the CJ. I agree the CJ is a faster aircraft. No question. I was not aware that a stock CJ-6 could accelerate to 230 miles per hour in level flight. That's very impressive. No Yak can meet that kind of level flight speed. My 50 with a stock 360 M-14P and a 2 blade will just BARELY do 200 mph WFO. However, I do believe that YAKS have a higher Vne, so if one starts heading towards the deck, it can outrun the CJ, losing energy all the way of course. Possibly you are talking about a CJ-6 with a souped up M-14 on it? No question that a CJ-6 with a 120 or more horsepower improvement over stock would start to become a serious competitor for a stock YAK-52. My comment is only because I was not sure exactly what you were comparing? Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Payne Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:51 Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 Brain, You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the Yak-52 wars? One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want. Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak will snap if aggravated. Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked about with good stick feel. On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes". Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>) Craig Payne cpayne@joimail.com ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:50 PM PST US From: Cpayne Subject: Yak-List: Need Clean Pic I'm working on creating a special award to be presented at Oshkosh. Looking for that rare shot of a CJ in STOCK paint in sharp focus, outlined in the sky with no other background, other than Mother Nature with plenty of pixels to work with. The perfect candidate will be forever enshrined in laser etched brass, but here is what I need first: - no broken arrows on the side - no nose art - no extra bands, rings, etc. - no camo jobs - no Yakkity Yak WW-II wannabe paint schemes - no giant spinners like the one I have - no Malcom canopies A "stock" paint job consists of green top/slate blue bottom with authentic flying school numbers in White, I know how to interpret the number schemes. I have plenty of Yak-52 pics but I'm not sure what "stock" is. All these airplanes and damn few really good pics, sigh.... Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:30 PM PST US Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" I am sure you are absolutely correct Dennis. Same thing happened to Tom Johnson's 50. Batteries that old are just waiting to fail on you completely when you least expect it... Like cold weather. By the way, I am not sure how to spell "Desulfator"... Anyway, the device that puts out about a 3 Mhz pulse and blasts the plates clean on batteries. Darn things are amazing, and using them can actually extend aircraft battery life to twice or even thrice normal age. Considering you can buy one in kit form for about $25, they are a steal. I have 2 gel cells that were totally dead (off of an electric wheel chair... 12 volt 35 AH jobs), that I ran one of these devices for two weeks straight on. They now charge and work perfectly. That is in the "WOW" category. Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 19:18 Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 --> Thanks Mark. You're right on the money....again. The batteries in Jack's newly acquired 52W are most likely the originals. Thus '99 or 2000 vintage. 7 or 8 years on batteries is unheard of. It is definitely time to replace them. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:07 PM Subject: RE: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 Point, > MALS-14 64E" > > A battery that is old or marginal to begin with will go to hell in a > handbasket when the temperature drops. That is just the nature of > batteries, especially old ones. > > However this is a very simple problem to take a look at, and the best > answer is NOT to theorize, but to actually MEASURE. You simply need to > turn every darn thing you can OFF including the master and other things, > etc., etc., then go back to the battery and remove the negative lead off > the battery. Connect an ammeter, between the negative lead you just > took off and the negative terminal of the battery itself. Assuming the > meter is set properly, and you have the meter leads attached to the > meter properly (get someone who knows how to do this in advance) then > you will read the actual current draw on the battery with everything > turned off. This number... This value... Is what needs to be KNOWN > before anyone can determine whether the battery should be able to supply > it for days or weeks on end, or... That it is excessive due to some > fault somewhere, that is not going to be fixed by new batteries. > > I agree with Herb, that trickle chargers and especially desulfactor > arrangements are smart purchases, but the actual current draw should be > done as an immediate first step and not after buying new batteries, > putting on a trickle charger etc. > > Have everything fully charged and ready to go, then measure the current > draw. It's a 5 minute task. > > Mark Bitterlich > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Herb Coussons > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 17:54 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > If you can identify a drain on the battery, i.e. not a bad battery or > other problem, then there are several inexpensive trickle chargers that > are meant for this very problem. I have a couple of cars I put up for > the winter in Green Bay. One with all of its electronics will drain the > battery in about 4 weeks of not running. I do not like to disconnect > the battery for the winter because I may drive it and the codes in the > clocks, stereo, GPS and the electronic keys get messed up with no power. > I put one of these low amperage chargers that mounts to the posts and > then has a short cord with a plug on the end that is mounted under the > hood. I pop the hood and plug in the charger - it works great. > > Herb > > > On Jan 15, 2008, at 1:07 PM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: > > > Dennis; > Thanks for the information. I'm just attempting to sort out > the problem and think it through so that I understand whats happening. > Th GT50 is a "Flight Data Systems". > When I left the aircraft before the battery went dead I was > sure that I pulled all the appropriate C/B's and turned everytrhing off. > ( None of the avionics is on a master sw and must be turned off > individually ) Now when I got to the Aircraft the Battery was down to > about 6 VDC. from a full charge. That said I reason the only things that > could have drawn down the ships battery was either the GPS or the GT50 > unless there is a direct short somewhere in the system somewhere. Now > when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they appear to be > origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so that prompted me > to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but will this next > weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics package needs to be on an > avionics bus with a seperate master sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the > way did you get my check? > Kindest Regards > Jack > > > -----Original Message----- > From: A. Dennis Savarese > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 9:28 am > Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > Jack, What's a GT50? I believe you and I talked about this on > the phone. Based on our discussion, did you replace the batteries yet? > .06 amp draw (6-100ths of an amp) on those two huge batteries should not > be a problem unless of course you're leaving your aircraft stored for a > year. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "B747crew" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:26 AM > Subject: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 > > > > > > I've experienced a problem with a battery drain on my Yak52 in > very cold > weather and have found based on installation information > that the GT50 > draws about .06 amps and is constantly powered by the > ships batter via the > hot bus. Has anyone else experienced a problem > with this unit draining > down the ships batterys??? > > Thanks Jack Snodgrass > > > > -------- > > Jack Snodgrass > > 4305 Claridge Ct. > > Apex, NC 27539 > > 808-371-2739 > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=158253#158253 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > ========== > p://forums.matronics.com > ========== > blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > ________________________________ > > d=aolcmp00050000000003> ! > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics. > com/Navigator?Yak-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co > ntribution > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:42 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Ah... Better than the other! I concur... To define which is better, one would have to define: "Better at what" ??? I think the best answer would be to have one of each. (@!!@) Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 19:11 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A vs Yak-52 On Jan 15, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Craig Payne wrote: > > Brain, > > You must be having a slow day! Remember the old Yakkity Yak vs the > Yak-52 wars? Yup. And now that I am getting more time in the Yak-52, I am not feeling the same superiority for the CJ6A. While I think that the two airplanes have complementary features, I am far less likely to pick one over the other. > One small point of order, the CJ you had (Betty) was nice, but it > couldn't provide the kick butt performance that an "enhanced" M-14P > can provide. In your own words: it depends on what you want. Well, speaking of "kick in the ass" the Yak-52 I'm flying has the 400hp engine. Regardless, "kick in the ass" is going to be a function primarily of power loading. And And that is my point, it depends on what you want. Frankly, I enjoy flying both airplanes. I can't say which I would prefer as each has its advantages and disadvantages. If I am out just yankin' and bankin' I like the Yak-52 better. > Yak roll rate is fine but remember that in a tail chase the CJ will > quickly hit 200 kts and pull up smoothly at all speeds while the Yak > will snap if aggravated. Their behavior is different in an accelerated stall but I wouldn't say that the Yak-52 "snaps". It stalls. So the wing doesn't have quite as much washout as the CJ6A does. That means the stall is going to progress more rapidly and it isn't quite so easy to hold it in the buffet. Just relax the back pressure or be sure you are on top of the rudder to prevent rotation. No fuss. > Then there is the low speed end where the CJ can still be yanked about > with good stick feel. I'm not sure I would categorize the Yak-52 as having "bad stick feel" at the low end either. I can feel the softness in pitch as I am getting close to the edge. > On the down side, my CJ's ailerons get real stiff above 175 kts. > OTOH. in formation with Yaks, I love burning 9.2 GPH to their 15GPH, > since we now report fuel state in time units, It's great to call out > "5 hours" (with aux) when the Yaks report "45 minutes". > > Then there is the baggage, but sigh, I'll leave the rest to you :>) Both are good airplanes. (I have to admit, I've never met an airplane I didn't like.) I still don't see how one can claim that it is better than the other. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:01 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:07 AM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote: > somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they > appear to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so > that prompted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but > will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics > package needs to be on an avionics bus with a seperate master > sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get my check? As the resident electrical geek (I didn't get the callsign "sparky" for nothing) I have a few comments and/or suggestions. Hopefully you received my earlier post where I pointed out that a 60mA constant drain on a 25AH battery will drain it in about 17 days. If your GT50 does have a "keep alive" circuit that is directly wired to the battery, bypassing the master contactor, it will drain the battery as you have described. Do put on a float charger that will keep the battery charged even under the small load imposed by the GT50's keep- alive circuit. As for an avionics master, they are not a great idea. You are wiring everything through that one switch which, if it fails, takes out all your radios. It isn't hard to turn on each of the boxes. Most of us do not have more than about three boxes to turn on, e.g. GPS, transponders, and nav/com (or just com). For that matter you don't even need to turn them off. The main master switch will do that just fine. Sounds to me like you might have a combination of a bad battery and a constant drain. A good idea is to take the batteries out, charge them fully, and then do a load test. A 25AH battery should be able to carry a 20A load for an hour. Put a couple of landing lights on there and see how long they run. (Stop the test when the voltage reaches 11V for a 12V battery or 22V for a 24V battery.) Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 From: b747crew2003@aol.com Thanks Brian ; =C2-=C2- =C2- I very much appreciate the helpful advice.=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-What a great web site where folks are so pleased to offer their support. =C2-=C2- Jack -----Original Message----- From: Brian Lloyd Sent: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 8:04 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: GT50 Flight Data System in my Yak52 =C2- On Jan 15, 2008, at 11:07 AM, b747crew2003@aol.com wrote:=C2- =C2- > somewhere. Now when I pulled the batteries out of the aircraft they > appe ar to be origional to the ship and 2 terminals were corroded so > that promp ted me to buy 2 new batts which I havn't yet installed but > will this next weekend. I'm thinking that the entire avionics > package needs to be on an a vionics bus with a seperate master > sw......... Your Thoughts?? By the way did you get my check?=C2- =C2- As the resident electrical geek (I didn't get the callsign "sparky" for noth ing) I have a few comments and/or suggestions.=C2- =C2- Hopefully you received my earlier post where I pointed out that a 60mA const ant drain on a 25AH battery will drain it in about 17 days. If your GT50 doe s have a "keep alive" circuit that is directly wired to the battery, bypassi ng the master contactor, it will drain the battery as you have described. Do put on a float charger that will keep the battery charged even under the sm all load imposed by the GT50's keep-alive circuit.=C2- =C2- As for an avionics master, they are not a great idea. You are wiring everyth ing through that one switch which, if it fails, takes out all your radios. I t isn't hard to turn on each of the boxes. Most of us do not have more than about three boxes to turn on, e.g. GPS, transponders, and nav/com (or just c om). For that matter you don't even need to turn them off. The main master s witch will do that just fine.=C2- =C2- Sounds to me like you might have a combination of a bad battery and a consta nt drain. A good idea is to take the batteries out, charge them fully, and t hen do a load test. A 25AH battery should be able to carry a 20A load for an hour. Put a couple of landing lights on there and see how long they run. (S top the test when the voltage reaches 11V for a 12V battery or 22V for a 24V battery.)=C2- =C2- Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive=C2- brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682=C2- +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)=C2- =C2- PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C=C2- PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C=C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- ============C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________________________________________________ aol.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:07 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation One can only hope that happens! The paint job is pure desecration! Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Doc, What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group trying to get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on a stick with a proper paint job. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation YGTBSM.look at that gay paint scheme! Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try: http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175 I got to visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top of it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at the Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I took a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had plenty of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high off of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer. Those guys always screwed up everything fun! Mark Davis N44YK What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ?? Gary Hagstrom Cubi Vigi href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ Release Date: 1/14/2008 5:39 PM ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:26 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:53:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, viperdoc@mindspring.com writes: Oh I don't know. It kind of give it some class. ;-/ Pappy One can only hope that happens! The paint job is pure desecration! Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Doc, What did you expect from art students? There's actually a group trying to get it back to the US to restore it for a museum or put it on a stick with a proper paint job. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: _Roger Kemp_ (mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com) Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation YGTBSMlook at that gay paint scheme! Doc From: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:59 AM _yak-list@matronics.com_ (mailto:yak-list@matronics.com) Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation The Vigi's still there. An art school located on the old NAS Cubi site is responsible for the paint job. No idea about the East End Club. I haven't been there for a long time. If my attachment won't open try: _http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175_ (http://cs.finescale.com/forums/1/626175/ShowPost.aspx#626175) I got to visit with a couple of nice Shore Patrol guys on New Years Eve of 1985 I believe it was for climbing on top o f it. My wife had flown over to see me and had gotten a little too big at th e Air Wing party at the O Club. When she was through calling dinosaurs I too k a walk. Always wanted to see the inside of a Vigi, so with enough San Migu and Cubi Specials in my blood I jumped up on the horizontal stabilizer and proceeded to climb up the back of the Vigi. It conveniently still had ple nty of non skid on top of the fuselage. I recall the nose being pretty high of f of the ground. I was prodding around trying to get the canopy open when I heard a "What are you doing up there?" The stealth properties of the San Miguel didn't help when I tried to crouch down and hide on top of it. So I walked back down to the tail, jumped off and explained to the two nice SP's why I was up there. They suggested I go back up the hill and check on my wife unless I preferred to explain what I was doing to the Base Security Officer . Those guys always screwed up everything fun! Mark Davis N44YK What ! It's still there ?? Is the East End Club still open ?? Gary Hagstrom The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments : Cubi Vigi e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF? Tell me you don't extend a trailing wire? Mark wa3jpy -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 11:47 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:13 AM, bill wade wrote: > What about putting the fuel in the front seat Right on the CG and > flying from the Back? The CJ6A has a few necessary controls that are not replicated in the back seat and I believe the Yak-52 does too. (Louvers, oil cooler door, and main air valve come to mind here.) I know there is a mod to provide the temp controls in the back seat of the -52 but I am wondering if there is anything else that is really critical. Nowadays I do my Yak-52 flying from the front seat and the back is a bit hazy to my mind right now. BTW, WRT the routing, if I can fly 450nm legs I can jump from Kulusuk to Nuuk, bypassing Sondre Stromfjord (big fee there as it is primarily military and they extract their Kilogram of flesh to let you stop there), and from there on to Iqaluit. That cuts off a leg or two. Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:08 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" I have seen one of those rip the probe right off the end of the boom on an A-6. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:26 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation No take up reel or response, just push it forward until you got a big lazy S. Too far forward and it would flip around in a circle and take out your radome. Before you could back out and disconnect you had to get permission from the boom operator. We had an Intruder that brought a basket back to Carl Vinson while we were hanging around on Gonzo Station. Supposedly the release mechanism failed to uncouple. He had gone through all the proper voice calls before backing out. At least his obstructed view trap was in the daytime. We were blue water and it removed any further tanking options. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Point, > MALS-14 64E" > > Pretty good! Never heard that one! > > As I remember, the old 135's had no take up reel. Just like the USAF > too.... Instead of appreciating what came knocking, they tried to rip it > off at the root! :-) > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:58 > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation > > > Mark, I concur! And we can do it in the dark without the help of > someone watching us and helping put it in! Although when tanking off of > a basket > equipped KC 135 we had to confirm single pump operation. : ) > > Mark Davis > N44YK > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" > > To: > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:39 PM > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation > > > Point, >> MALS-14 64E" >> >> Sheesh... Air Force folks.... >> >> Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We > have >> refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes >> they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big. >> >> Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with > probes >> can get in I suppose. >> >> I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service >> branches as well........ >> >> Your friend, >> >> Mark Bitterlich >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26 >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation >> > >> >> Mark, >> You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the >> year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang > in >> the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the > nearest >> divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the >> D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open. >> You are my hero! >> >> Doc >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation >> >> >> Doc, >> You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster >> doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : ) >> >> Mark Davis >> N44YK >> (former LSO) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Roger Kemp" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation >> >> >>> >>> Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier. >>> Brian, >>> You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. > Thanks, >> >>> I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to >>> runaway from you in the pitch ass dark! >>> Doc >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: Brian Lloyd >>>>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM >>>>To: yak-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> From a fellow CAF aviator: >>>>> >>>>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will >>>>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!! >>>> >>>>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty >>>>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but > I >>>>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them. >>>> >>>>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that >>>>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my >>>>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the > Army >>>>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office >>>>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate >>>>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at >>>>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs, >>>>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more >>>>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany. >>>> >>>>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive >>>>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >>>>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) >>>> >>>>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C >>>>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A >> 1B6C >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> 8:23 PM >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Yep... That would be me. :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation USMC = Uncle Sam's Misguided Children DaBear USMC 1982-1988 Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: > --> Point, MALS-14 64E" > > So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys? > > > Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough, > describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)! > > It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE! > > "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....." > > Sorry, I'll stop now... > > Your Bud, > > Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC) > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:00 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" Doc, if you never got a chance to go to the P.I., there is very little that can be said that would truly describe it. By and large, I think it is pretty much gone now anyway... At least from what it used to be. The wild wild west had NOTHING on that place. I spent a lot of time down there as a Marine, both on the boat and off. Was there on the Midway, and the Coral Sea in the 70's, and then spent lots of months there deployed with VMAQ-2 during the 80's, then as a Tech Rep in the 90's. Once Mount Pinatubo went up, Clark AFB (sheesh what a place that was too!) just went off the map, and Olongapo was pretty badly damaged as well. No... I have never been "plugged" period. We were always the plugger and never the pluggee. Seriously now... You have seen the difference between what the USAF uses and what the USN/USMC uses correct? The two systems are indeed 180 out from each other. The beer was San Miguel by the way.... Your spelling indeed reflects how it is pronounced. The only place that came close to Cubi and Olongapo was possibly Taichung in Taiwan during the Vietnam years. This was a staging point for Nam and was also pretty wild. The taxi drivers were actually wilder... Which is truly saying something. Hong Kong is actually mild compared to those two places. Lots of good memories. Some not so good as well! :-) Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've had RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not tell after a few to many San Migells what was or was not! Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back! Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation --> Point, MALS-14 64E" So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys? Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough, describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)! It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE! "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....." Sorry, I'll stop now... Your Bud, Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC) -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a female. Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation --> Point, MALS-14 64E" Sheesh... Air Force folks.... Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big. Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes can get in I suppose. I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service branches as well........ Your friend, Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Mark, You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open. You are my hero! Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Doc, You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : ) Mark Davis N44YK (former LSO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kemp" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation > > Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier. > Brian, > You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks, > I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to > runaway from you in the pitch ass dark! > Doc > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Brian Lloyd >>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM >>To: yak-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation >> >> >> >>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote: >> >>> From a fellow CAF aviator: >>> >>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will >>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!! >> >>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty >>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I >>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them. >> >>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that >>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my >>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army >>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office >>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate >>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at >>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs, >>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more >>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany. >> >>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive >>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) >> >>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C >>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > 8:23 PM > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:47 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shipping from Europe to USA On Jan 15, 2008, at 8:09 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E wrote: > Point, MALS-14 64E" > > Brian, what kind of lashup do you use for an antenna for the HF? Tell > me you don't extend a trailing wire? There are a couple of ways to go but I prefer the trailing-wire-with- drogue myself. I used a plastic funnel as the drogue. I can reel the antenna in or out to tune it. It works well. I might do things differently now. I have a couple of automatic tuners that do everything for you. I would probably run a wire from the back of the canopy to the top of the VS and then out to the right wingtip. The tuner will be perfectly happy with that. The antenna is long enough to be relatively efficient down to 2.5MHz and the airframe is a good counterpoise. OTOH, one doesn't really need HF when going the northern route. There is almost continuous VHF coverage up there. -- Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:10 PM PST US From: "viperdoc" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Indeed tanking is 180 out Navy/Marines vs Air Force. Have heard tales and seen a few safety reports with 5X8 glossies of baskets stuck on the end of the probe and the other way around. The 135 guys were not too happy to bring home extra hardware. I have seen probes jammed and broken off in the receptacle also. That got to be a bit dicey for the Eagle driver that brought the proboncis home too. Can't imagine trying to do an obstructed trap. Those were some huge brass kahonas! Can pretty well imagine there were some 55 Buick size skid marks in his shorts when that nose gunner managed to extract the seat cushion from his rosey pink and slide down the rail. Nope, never got to Clarke. My squadron's South Pacific tour was cut short with the decision to close down Cope Thunder there and move it to Alaska! Just not the same. Have sampled that formaldehyde laden San Miguel courtesy of some heavy drivers though. Guess that falls in the category of "slept in a Holiday Inn Express" huh. Unfortunately have treated some of those bugs that stuck too! They grow some pretty bad shit in the P.I.! It does not die easily! Yes, guess we were the US's misguide Children (and for some still are). A lot of growing up done then and even now for those still on the Tip! Would not trade those experiences for anything. Well, maybe a few less hangovers and 100% O2...maybe! Damned, hate having to grow up and become an adult supervisor! Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 10:49 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation MALS-14 64E" Doc, if you never got a chance to go to the P.I., there is very little that can be said that would truly describe it. By and large, I think it is pretty much gone now anyway... At least from what it used to be. The wild wild west had NOTHING on that place. I spent a lot of time down there as a Marine, both on the boat and off. Was there on the Midway, and the Coral Sea in the 70's, and then spent lots of months there deployed with VMAQ-2 during the 80's, then as a Tech Rep in the 90's. Once Mount Pinatubo went up, Clark AFB (sheesh what a place that was too!) just went off the map, and Olongapo was pretty badly damaged as well. No... I have never been "plugged" period. We were always the plugger and never the pluggee. Seriously now... You have seen the difference between what the USAF uses and what the USN/USMC uses correct? The two systems are indeed 180 out from each other. The beer was San Miguel by the way.... Your spelling indeed reflects how it is pronounced. The only place that came close to Cubi and Olongapo was possibly Taichung in Taiwan during the Vietnam years. This was a staging point for Nam and was also pretty wild. The taxi drivers were actually wilder... Which is truly saying something. Hong Kong is actually mild compared to those two places. Lots of good memories. Some not so good as well! :-) Mark -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 23:24 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation You're telling me you've been plugged by a female? Oh, I forgot you've had RR in such exotic places as the PI and Hong Kong where you could not tell after a few to many San Migells what was or was not! Well at least for me it was a metal Probe sticking in my back! Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation --> Point, MALS-14 64E" So... Um, ah... You are confirming that you usually get plugged by guys? Geez Louise... Give us a break Doc, admitting it is bad enough, describing how it feels is just plain TMI (Too much information)! It just keeps getting WORSE AND WORSE! "Up we go, into the wild blue yonder....." Sorry, I'll stop now... Your Bud, Mark (Correct Pappy.. USMC) -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of viperdoc Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 22:31 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Yeah, I know it is a strange feeling when you feel the thunk of the probe as it seats along with hearing the voice of female come over the inter-a/c intercom! Damned, first time in my life I've been plugged by a female. Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 8:40 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation --> Point, MALS-14 64E" Sheesh... Air Force folks.... Doc, Navy/Marine Corps aircraft do not have "receptable doors". We have refueling PROBES, commonly referred to as "Donkey Dicks". Sometimes they retract, sometimes they are fixed, but they are ALWAYS big. Only the Air Force has "receptable doors".... So that those with probes can get in I suppose. I'd say that this pretty describes the difference between the service branches as well........ Your friend, Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 21:26 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Formation Mark, You are living the life! Hey, who would not want to spend 6 mo out the year sleeping under a runway with some machine hissing and going bang in the middle of one's 2 am beauty sleep! In a blue world where the nearest divert base is 2000 nm away all when you can't get fuel because the D#$M5@ receptacle door won't cycle open. You are my hero! Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation Doc, You're missing out on all the fun! Besides the ramp monster doesn't bite those who listen to the ramp guardians ( aka LSO's). : ) Mark Davis N44YK (former LSO) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kemp" Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:31 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation > > Great read. Had seen the article on the 8th earlier. > Brian, > You have not seen the "Ramp Monster" eat an airplane have you. Thanks, > I'll take my 8 to 10 k foot runways that neither pitch/down or try to > runaway from you in the pitch ass dark! > Doc > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Brian Lloyd >>Sent: Jan 14, 2008 10:36 AM >>To: yak-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Formation >> >> >> >>On Jan 14, 2008, at 8:05 AM, KingCJ6@aol.com wrote: >> >>> From a fellow CAF aviator: >>> >>> An incredible story rarely told. Everyone who flies formation will >>> put these heroes on even a higher pedestal than before!!!!!! >> >>As I recall, the Eighth Air Force also suffered the highest casualty >>rate of any allied unit in WW-II. So, yes, my hat is off to them but I >>sure as hell would not want to have been one of them. >> >>In my case, this produces a bit of 'what-if' thinking. I surmise that >>I might just be here because the Army Air Corps wouldn't take my >>father. Seems that he couldn't produce a birth certificate so the Army >>recruiter turned him away. The chief in the Navy recruiter's office >>manipulated the system so that his lack of a birth certificate >>wouldn't be discovered until after he was well along in training, at >>which point it wouldn't matter. As a result he ended up flying SBDs, >>SB2Cs, and F6Fs off of carriers in the Pacific, a much safer and more >>pleasant passtime than flying B17s over Germany. >> >>Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive >>brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >>+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) >> >>PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C >>PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > 8:23 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.