Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Re: cable tension (fougapilot)
2. 06:06 AM - Aircraft Photos (ByronMFox@aol.com)
3. 10:02 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 02/28/08 (Blake Lancaster)
4. 10:05 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/01/08 (Blake Lancaster)
5. 10:20 AM - cable tension (Jerry Painter)
6. 12:15 PM - Thaw is on (Herb Coussons)
7. 12:31 PM - Re: Thaw is on (ByronMFox@aol.com)
8. 12:35 PM - ELT's (Tim Gagnon)
9. 01:16 PM - Re: cable tension (Brian Lloyd)
10. 01:18 PM - Re: Thaw is on (Brian Lloyd)
11. 04:31 PM - Re: ELT's (Kurt Howerton)
12. 05:44 PM - Re: ELT's (Cliff Coy)
13. 06:37 PM - Re: cable tension (Walter Lannon)
14. 06:41 PM - Re: ELT's (Walter Lannon)
15. 07:15 PM - Main Gear Actuator Seals (mikspin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: cable tension |
Lower Alabama???
I'll take my snowbank over tornados, hurricane or earthquakes any days of the week
thank yo very much ;-)
all joking apart, thanks for the replies.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167218#167218
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Thanks to all those who sent photos for the OSH brochure. ...Blitz
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?N
CID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 02/28/08 |
Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-02-28&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-02-28&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Thu 02/28/08: 12
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 03:36 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal mod (fougapilot)
> 2. 05:59 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal mod (skidmk)
> 3. 09:51 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal mod (fougapilot)
> 4. 11:07 AM - ExhaustValve adjustment (skidmk)
> 5. 12:54 PM - Prop Paint and Decals. (CJcanuck)
> 6. 12:55 PM - WTB Parachute/GPS (GreasySideUp)
> 7. 01:30 PM - Re: Prop Paint and Decals. (doug sapp)
> 8. 01:33 PM - Re: WTB Parachute/GPS (CJcanuck)
> 9. 02:53 PM - Re: ExhaustValve adjustment (Craig Payne)
> 10. 03:03 PM - Re: WTB Parachute/GPS (Roger Kemp M.D.)
> 11. 03:55 PM - Re: Re: WTB Parachute/GPS (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 12. 05:07 PM - Re: WTB Parachute/GPS (A. Dennis Savarese)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:36:16 AM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rudder Pedal mod
> From: "fougapilot" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Barry,
>
> Being in the 6'+ club, I am interested by your Net 4".
>
> Do you have pictures of an installed set? I have looked at your website but couldn't
> find any.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166698#166698
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:59:19 AM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rudder Pedal mod
> From: "skidmk" <bourgem@cia.com>
>
>
> Hi Dan,,
>
> sent you the Barry's info pac last night.
>
> --------
> Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
> Ottawa, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166721#166721
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:51:24 AM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Rudder Pedal mod
> From: "fougapilot" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Which did not include any pictures...
>
> Hence my request with Barry.
>
> D
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166759#166759
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:07:16 AM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: ExhaustValve adjustment
> From: "skidmk" <bourgem@cia.com>
>
>
> HI, searched the archives and didn't come up with much. Taking delivery of my
> CJ sometime in march. The exhaust valves have not been adjusted in the last
3
> annuals (these are the ones I've seen so far).. 2 cyl's are in the low 70's high
> 60's.
>
> I've never done valve adjustment, where would I get the tools and the "manual"?
>
> thanks
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
> Ottawa, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166774#166774
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:54:26 PM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: Prop Paint and Decals.
> From: "CJcanuck" <m_kirk69@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Hi All!
>
> My prop is currently being overhauled and I'm having it stripped and repainted
> while it's at the shop. As they doesn't stock blue prop paint I was hoping someone
> might know where I can find some in the correct hue. I'd also appreciate
> a line on either decals or stencils + paint for the blade markings.
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike Kirk
> C-GYMK
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166792#166792
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:55:50 PM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: WTB Parachute/GPS
> From: "GreasySideUp" <greasysideup@hotmail.com>
>
>
> The Yak deal went through!!! Now I need a seatpack chute and possibly a GPS.
Please
> send me an email with price/pics/date of repack and manufacture to greasysideup
> at hotmail.com I am 200#
>
> GPS looking for a descent handheld to keep me out of trouble, any recommendations
> also welcome.
>
> Thanks
>
> -j
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166793#166793
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:30:49 PM PST US
> From: "doug sapp" <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Prop Paint and Decals.
>
> Mike,
> I stock the decals for the J9-G1 propeller. Contact me off list. As far as
> the paint goes, you might try any high end auto paint vendor, many have the
> ability to match exactly what you need if you have the original color paint
> sample.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 12:51 PM, CJcanuck <m_kirk69@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> My prop is currently being overhauled and I'm having it stripped and
>> repainted while it's at the shop. As they doesn't stock blue prop paint I
>> was hoping someone might know where I can find some in the correct hue. I'd
>> also appreciate a line on either decals or stencils + paint for the blade
>> markings.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mike Kirk
>> C-GYMK
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=166792#166792
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
r
Message 4
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|
| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/01/08 |
Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
> of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-03-01&Archive=Yak
>
> Text Version:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-03-01&Archive=Yak
>
>
> ===============================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ===============================================
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Sat 03/01/08: 12
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 01:25 AM - cable tension (Jerry Painter)
> 2. 09:19 AM - Re: cable tension (Walter Lannon)
> 3. 10:40 AM - Re: cable tension (Roger Kemp M.D.)
> 4. 11:11 AM - Re: cable tension (Brian Lloyd)
> 5. 01:58 PM - Re: cable tension (Brian Lloyd)
> 6. 05:36 PM - Re: cable tension (Walter Lannon)
> 7. 05:36 PM - Re: cable tension (Walter Lannon)
> 8. 07:02 PM - Re: cable tension (fish@aviation-tech.com)
> 9. 07:31 PM - Re: cable tension (Roger Kemp M.D.)
> 10. 08:07 PM - Re: cable tension (Roger Kemp M.D.)
> 11. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt
Dralle)
> 12. 11:05 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:25:37 AM PST US
> From: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> Dan--
>
> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions for
> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps. Don't
> have one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not metric)
> sizes so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Ma
> rk
> can give you the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes the little gra
> y
> cells fail me, but I think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same
> as
> for concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has
> anything to do with it) so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>
> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately roun hya.
> Sometimes. Maybe.
>
> Jerry Painter
> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>
> Wild Blue Aviation
> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
> Hangar A-6
> 19203 59th Dr. NE
> Arlington, WA 98223
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 09:19:01 AM PST US
> From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> Good Morning Jerry;
>
> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I understand it cable tension
> is affected by thermal expansion of aluminium airframe structure probably more
> than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of little value and
> may be counter productive.
> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13 later and get back.
> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>
> Cheers;
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jerry Painter
> To: Yak List (yak-list@matronics.com)
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Dan--
>
> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions for
> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps. Don't have
> one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not metric) sizes so
> you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Mark can give you
> the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes the little gray cells fail me,
> but I think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as for concrete, and
> the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has anything to do with it)
> so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>
> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately roun hya.
Sometimes.
> Maybe.
>
> Jerry Painter
> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>
> Wild Blue Aviation
> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
> Hangar A-6
> 19203 59th Dr. NE
> Arlington, WA 98223
> 425-876-0865
> JP@FlyWBA.com
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:40:49 AM PST US
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> What? You are down to 3 feet of snow and the ice on you short hairs has
> melted back a couple of inches?
>
> Now I know spring is near for us down here in LA (lower Alabama). The Robins
> came back a couple of weeks ago, the grass is turning green, the dogwoods
> are starting to bloom, and the F&^%$#@ TORNADOS are BACK!
>
> Doc
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Good Morning Jerry;
>
>
> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I understand it cable
> tension is affected by thermal expansion of aluminium airframe structure
> probably more than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of
> little value and may be counter productive.
>
> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13 later and get
> back.
>
> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>
>
> Cheers;
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jerry Painter <mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
>
> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Dan--
>
>
> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions for
> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps. Don't
> have one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not metric)
> sizes so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Mark
> can give you the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes the little gray
> cells fail me, but I think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as
> for concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has
> anything to do with it) so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>
>
> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately roun hya.
> Sometimes. Maybe.
>
>
> Jerry Painter
>
> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
>
> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>
>
> Wild Blue Aviation
>
> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
>
> Hangar A-6
>
> 19203 59th Dr. NE
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
>
> 425-876-0865
>
> JP@FlyWBA.com
>
> <http://www.flywba.com/> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:11:39 AM PST US
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:20 AM, Jerry Painter wrote:
>
>
>> Dan--
>>
>> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions
>> for various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different
>> temps. Don't have one here or I'd give you the page. They're all
>> English (not metric) sizes so you may have to do a little
>> interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Mark can give you the modulus of
>> expansion for steel (sometimes the little gray cells fail me, but I
>> think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as for concrete,
>> and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has anything
>> to do with it) so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>>
>
> You forgot to account for differential expansion of the aluminum
> structure. That is what causes the change in tension. The coefficient
> of expansion for the steel cable is less than the coefficient of
> expansion for the aluminum structure. So the airframe "shrinks" more
> than the cable does when it is cold causing the cable to lose tension.
>
> Here is a listing of coefficients of expansion for various materials.
> You will find aluminum near the top and various steels in the middle.
>
> http://www.handyharmancanada.com/TheBrazingBook/comparis.htm
>
> Oh, and don't forget the modulus of elasticity (stretch) of the steel.
> That is how you apply the preload. That will also tell you how much
> the tension will change when you change the length with temperature.
>
> So if you start with a slack cable, modulus of elasticity will tell
> you how much the tension will change for a give change in length
> (stretch). The difference in coefficient of expansion of steel vs.
> aluminum (only valid for all-aluminum airframes -- steel tube
> airframes change the equation as the steel tubing will have the same
> coefficient of expansion as the cable) tells you how much the length
> will change with temperature thus letting you calculate a new tension
> value.
>
> See, this stuff is childs play.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori
> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com 9330 Sierra College Blvd.
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) Roseville, CA 95661, USA
> http://www.gbmontessori.com
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:58:07 PM PST US
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>
>> Oh, and don't forget the modulus of elasticity (stretch) of the
>> steel. That is how you apply the preload. That will also tell you
>> how much the tension will change when you change the length with
>> temperature.
>>
>
> Before Mark jumps on me for making a mistake, let me make this more
> clear. The modulus of elasticity tells you how much a given stretch
> will change the tension (force) or vice versa, i.e. how much the
> length will change when you apply a given force (think of a spring
> here). When the cable and the airframe change size with a decrease in
> temperature (coefficient of expansion), the airframe shrinks more than
> the steel cable does. This causes the stretch on the cable to be
> reduced and therefore the tension on the cable to be reduced. How
> *much* the tension changes is a function of the modulus of elasticity.
>
> Is that better?
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:36:40 PM PST US
> From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Geez Brian that's what I was trying to say.
> Cheers;
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>
>> On Mar 1, 2008, at 1:20 AM, Jerry Painter wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dan--
>>>
>>> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions for
>>> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps.
>>> Don't have one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not
>>> metric) sizes so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe
>>> Brian or Mark can give you the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes
>>> the little gray cells fail me, but I think its about .01'/100'), which
>>> is about the same as for concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs.
>>> tension (if that has anything to do with it) so you could calculate it.
>>> Just kidding.
>>>
>> You forgot to account for differential expansion of the aluminum
>> structure. That is what causes the change in tension. The coefficient of
>> expansion for the steel cable is less than the coefficient of expansion
>> for the aluminum structure. So the airframe "shrinks" more than the cable
>> does when it is cold causing the cable to lose tension.
>>
>> Here is a listing of coefficients of expansion for various materials. You
>> will find aluminum near the top and various steels in the middle.
>>
>> http://www.handyharmancanada.com/TheBrazingBook/comparis.htm
>>
>> Oh, and don't forget the modulus of elasticity (stretch) of the steel.
>> That is how you apply the preload. That will also tell you how much the
>> tension will change when you change the length with temperature.
>>
>> So if you start with a slack cable, modulus of elasticity will tell you
>> how much the tension will change for a give change in length (stretch).
>> The difference in coefficient of expansion of steel vs. aluminum (only
>> valid for all-aluminum airframes -- steel tube airframes change the
>> equation as the steel tubing will have the same coefficient of expansion
>> as the cable) tells you how much the length will change with temperature
>> thus letting you calculate a new tension value.
>>
>> See, this stuff is childs play.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Brian Lloyd Granite Bay Montessori
>> brian AT gbmontessori DOT com 9330 Sierra College Blvd.
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) Roseville, CA 95661, USA
>> http://www.gbmontessori.com
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>>
>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>>
>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:36:40 PM PST US
> From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> Snow long gone. Playing golf tomorrow. What the hell is a tornado???
>
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Kemp M.D.
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:31 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> What? You are down to 3 feet of snow and the ice on you short hairs has melted
> back a couple of inches?
>
> Now I know spring is near for us down here in LA (lower Alabama). The Robins
> came back a couple of weeks ago, the grass is turning green, the dogwoods are
> starting to bloom, and the F&^%$#@ TORNADOS are BACK!
>
> Doc
>
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:14 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>
> Good Morning Jerry;
>
>
>
> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I understand it cable tension
> is affected by thermal expansion of aluminium airframe structure probably
> more than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of little value
and
> may be counter productive.
>
> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13 later and get back.
>
> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>
>
>
> Cheers;
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jerry Painter
>
> To: Yak List (yak-list@matronics.com)
>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
>
> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>
> Dan--
>
>
>
> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions
for
> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps. Don't have
> one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not metric) sizes
> so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Mark can give
> you the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes the little gray cells fail
> me, but I think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as for concrete,
> and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has anything to do with
> it) so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>
>
>
> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately roun hya.
> Sometimes. Maybe.
>
>
>
> Jerry Painter
>
> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
>
> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>
>
>
> Wild Blue Aviation
>
> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
>
> Hangar A-6
>
> 19203 59th Dr. NE
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
>
> 425-876-0865
>
> JP@FlyWBA.com
>
> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:02:18 PM PST US
> From: "fish@aviation-tech.com" <fish@aviation-tech.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Doc,
>
> Had a typical california day here in the high desert(Near
> Los Angeles), 70 deg with a light wind. Unfortunatly I had
> surgery on Thurs and can't take advantage of the good
> weather right now.
>
> Fly Safe
> John Fischer
> Yak-52, N213YA
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>> What? You are down to 3 feet of snow and the ice on you
>> short hairs has melted back a couple of inches?
>>
>> Now I know spring is near for us down here in LA (lower
>> Alabama). The Robins came back a couple of weeks ago, the
>> grass is turning green, the dogwoods are starting to bloom
>> , and the F&^%$#@ TORNADOS are BACK!
>>
>> Doc
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Walter Lannon Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:14 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Morning Jerry;
>>
>>
>>
>> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I
>> understand it cable tension is affected by thermal
>> expansion of aluminium airframe structure probably more
>> than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of
>> little value and may be counter productive.
>>
>> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13
>> later and get back.
>>
>> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers;
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Jerry Painter <mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net>
>>
>> To: Yak List <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)>
>> (yak-list@matronics.com)
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
>>
>> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan--
>>
>>
>>
>> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical
>> tensions for various standard cable sizes and strand
>> counts at different temps. Don't have one here or I'd
>> give you the page. They're all English (not metric) sizes
>> so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe
>> Brian or Mark can give you the modulus of expansion for
>> steel (sometimes the little gray cells fail me, but I
>> think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as for
>> concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if
>> that has anything to do with it) so you could calculate
>> it. Just kidding.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately
>> roun hya. Sometimes. Maybe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry Painter
>>
>> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
>>
>> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wild Blue Aviation
>>
>> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
>>
>> Hangar A-6
>>
>> 19203 59th Dr. NE
>>
>> Arlington, WA 98223
>>
>> 425-876-0865
>>
>> JP@FlyWBA.com
>>
>> <http://www.flywba.com/> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:31:03 PM PST US
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Apologies, for some reason I was thinking you were in the frigid northwest.
> My mistake.
> Sorry about the surgery. It can be a pain sometimes. Can see why you would
> not want to go flying. Hope all comes out okay.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> fish@aviation-tech.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:59 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> <fish@aviation-tech.com>
>
> Doc,
>
> Had a typical california day here in the high desert(Near
> Los Angeles), 70 deg with a light wind. Unfortunatly I had
> surgery on Thurs and can't take advantage of the good
> weather right now.
>
> Fly Safe
> John Fischer
> Yak-52, N213YA
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
>> What? You are down to 3 feet of snow and the ice on you
>> short hairs has melted back a couple of inches?
>>
>> Now I know spring is near for us down here in LA (lower
>> Alabama). The Robins came back a couple of weeks ago, the
>> grass is turning green, the dogwoods are starting to bloom
>> , and the F&^%$#@ TORNADOS are BACK!
>>
>> Doc
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Walter Lannon Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:14 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>>
>>
>>
>> Good Morning Jerry;
>>
>>
>>
>> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I
>> understand it cable tension is affected by thermal
>> expansion of aluminium airframe structure probably more
>> than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of
>> little value and may be counter productive.
>>
>> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13
>> later and get back.
>>
>> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers;
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Jerry Painter <mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net>
>>
>> To: Yak List <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com)>
>> (yak-list@matronics.com)
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
>>
>> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Dan--
>>
>>
>>
>> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical
>> tensions for various standard cable sizes and strand
>> counts at different temps. Don't have one here or I'd
>> give you the page. They're all English (not metric) sizes
>> so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe
>> Brian or Mark can give you the modulus of expansion for
>> steel (sometimes the little gray cells fail me, but I
>> think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as for
>> concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if
>> that has anything to do with it) so you could calculate
>> it. Just kidding.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately
>> roun hya. Sometimes. Maybe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jerry Painter
>>
>> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
>>
>> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wild Blue Aviation
>>
>> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
>>
>> Hangar A-6
>>
>> 19203 59th Dr. NE
>>
>> Arlington, WA 98223
>>
>> 425-876-0865
>>
>> JP@FlyWBA.com
>>
>> <http://www.flywba.com/> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:07:16 PM PST US
> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
> A really big sucking wind! Generally 400 yds wide and 160 mph that's over in
> 10-15 seconds! Kind of like a bad divorce. Sucks you dry and destroys your
> life all in a heartbeat,.
>
> Flying tomorrow with the guard. Golf is sheer mental torture. The only game
> I know that I am more pissed off after the game than before I started. The
> only game I know where that little dimpled ball has the ability take my
> personality from laid back to Tasmanian devil in one heartbeat.
>
> Gave that game up for lent!
>
> Doc
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Snow long gone. Playing golf tomorrow. What the hell is a tornado???
>
>
> Walt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Roger <mailto:viperdoc@mindspring.com> Kemp M.D.
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:31 AM
>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> What? You are down to 3 feet of snow and the ice on you short hairs has
> melted back a couple of inches?
>
> Now I know spring is near for us down here in LA (lower Alabama). The Robins
> came back a couple of weeks ago, the grass is turning green, the dogwoods
> are starting to bloom, and the F&^%$#@ TORNADOS are BACK!
>
> Doc
>
>
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Good Morning Jerry;
>
>
> I can't recall seeing a tension table in 43-13. As I understand it cable
> tension is affected by thermal expansion of aluminium airframe structure
> probably more than the cable itself. If so a "generic" table would be of
> little value and may be counter productive.
>
> However, I have been known to be wrong so will check 43-13 later and get
> back.
>
> It is definitely starting to look like spring is here!
>
>
> Cheers;
>
> Walt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jerry Painter <mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:20 AM
>
> Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
>
>
> Dan--
>
>
> Take a look in your AC 43-13. There's a table of typical tensions for
> various standard cable sizes and strand counts at different temps. Don't
> have one here or I'd give you the page. They're all English (not metric)
> sizes so you may have to do a little interpolating. Or maybe Brian or Mark
> can give you the modulus of expansion for steel (sometimes the little gray
> cells fail me, but I think its about .01'/100'), which is about the same as
> for concrete, and the formula for catenary sag vs. tension (if that has
> anything to do with it) so you could calculate it. Just kidding.
>
>
> Wish I could go to SnF, tho it be looka like spring lately roun hya.
> Sometimes. Maybe.
>
>
> Jerry Painter
>
> chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
>
> permanent latrine orderly &c.
>
>
> Wild Blue Aviation
>
> Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
>
> Hangar A-6
>
> 19203 59th Dr. NE
>
> Arlington, WA 98223
>
> 425-876-0865
>
> JP@FlyWBA.com
>
> <http://www.flywba.com/> http://www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:04:12 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Please read over the Yak-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
> complete Yak-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
> following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
> [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
> Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
>
>
> This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
>
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>
>
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> Yak-List Usage Guidelines
> ******************************************************************************
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> high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
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>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
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> -------
>
>
> [This is an automated posting.]
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:05:43 PM PST US
> From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
> Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
> following URL:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
>
> Thank you,
>
> Matt Dralle
> Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
> ******************************************************************************
> Yak-List Usage Guidelines
> ******************************************************************************
>
> The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
> You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
> Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
> in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
>
>
> Yak-List Policy Statement
>
> The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
> things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
> are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
> high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
> among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
> requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
> the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
>
>
> - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
> posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
> lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
>
> - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
> relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
>
> - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
> that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
> terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
> responses.
>
> - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
> aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
> about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
> bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
> space in the archive.
>
> - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
> easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
> web page or FAQ first.
>
> - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
> your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
> easy to find threads in the archive.
>
> - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
> response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
> reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
> quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
> can not be overstated!
>
> - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
> then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
> "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
> response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
> your response with the original poster's email address.
>
> - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
> to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
> agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
> to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
>
> - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
> comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
> contribute something valuable.
>
> - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
> polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
> other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
> controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
> will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
>
> - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
>
> -------
>
>
> [This is an automated posting.]
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
> y
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Gents--
In the ultimate sense, what you say about differential (aluminum) aircraf
t
structure expansion/contraction being more of a relative factor for chang
e
in cable tension than the (steel) cables is, of course, true. Aluminum h
as
a higher expansion rate than steel. But we're talkin' little bitty
airplanes here. Unless we're talkin' 'bout BIG airplanes and BIG changes
in
temperature it ain't hardly nothin.' That's why none (that I know of--whi
ch,
admittedly, isn't much) of our little GA Yak-sized, un-pressurized, low
altitude, short range airplanes has automatic temperature compensating ca
ble
tension adjusters (surely, someone will find a contradictory example, no?
).
Because the structures are so small the small temperature changes we usua
lly
encounter are simply not a factor--except when you set the initial tensio
n.
Then, of course, you do want to compensate for temperature so the load wi
ll
stay in the ballpark at all temps. The risk is that cables set to a "nor
mal
tension in a cold environment could become so tight in high temps that
control friction will go up and structural damage could occur. But again
,
probably unlikely with our little airplanes unless you really, really ove
rdo
it.
HSAT, Joe, you're right. There is no table in 43-13 (that I could find).
I
haven't had a chance to look through other standard FAA texts, but I did
find a "typical" cable tension and temperature compensation table for
various cable sizes in one of Dale Crane's books (Airframe Volume 1:
Structures, fig. 4-42, p. 296, published by ASA--and no doubt taken strai
ght
from one of the FAA AC's), which I forwarded to Dan off list.
Crane's table shows that the (recommended) tension (for the hypothetical
typical" airplane) on a 1/8" 7X19 cable would be 34 lbs. at negative 40
degrees F (pretty damn cold!), and recommends 100 lbs. at plus 160 degree
s F
(really, really hot!). At 59 degrees F (standard day) the tension would
be
about 65 lbs. That's quite a broad range of acceptable tension (66 lbs.
over 200 degrees F). Crane's table also says "values include 10% structur
al
deflection." Hmmm.
But the real question, still, is what is the mfr's "recommended" tension
at
some given temperature. Is it the same as Crane's "typical" chart? I do
n't
know and worth looking into. That "recommended" tension is what
compensation" has to be applied to. My guess is it will be very close to
what's shown in Crane's "typical" table, just as bolt torques nearly alwa
ys
are "typical" for a given size. Unless you grossly exceed "typical" valu
es
on the high side you're "probably" gonna be OK.
But do the homework, find the mfr's recommended value. And forget that p
lan
to strap on those JATO bottles so you can fly nonstop from Coldfoot to
Riyadh at 60,000 feet some fine winter day!
Jerry Painter
chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
permanent latrine orderly &c.
Wild Blue Aviation
Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
Hangar A-6
19203 59th Dr. NE
Arlington, WA 98223
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
http://www.FlyWBA.com
Message 6
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A nice March morning - 35 degrees - Above freezing for the first time
this year. Starting to see the pavement in front of the hanger - the
pile is about 10 ft high.
Flying soon !!
Herb
DSC_0039.JPG
Message 7
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In a message dated 3/2/08 12:16:50 PM, drc@wscare.com writes:
> A nice March morning - 35 degrees - Above freezing for the first time this
> year. -Starting to see the pavement in front of the hanger - the pile is
> about 10 ft high.
> Flying soon !!
>
>
>
You know, I was just thinking the same thing. We expect 70 degrees today in
San Francisco and the cherry trees and daffodils are in bloom. And the reall
y
good news is that the snow pack in the Sierras is 120% of normal. So, why
is
that so great? Because it means that we'll be able to flush toilets through
the summer. ...Blitz
**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video
on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du
ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
Message 8
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Do we need them?
I have heard yes and no......plus they are shutting down satellite monitoring next
year...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167285#167285
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: cable tension |
> tension adjusters (surely, someone will find a contradictory
> example, no?). Because the structures are so small the small
> temperature changes we usually encounter are simply not a factor--
> except when you set the initial tension. Then, of course, you do
> want to compensate for temperature so the load will stay in the
> ballpark at all temps.
If you have to compensate for temperature then the variation isn't so
small.
For example, if one were doing this in an airframe with a steel-tube
frame, the coefficient of expansion of the airframe would be the same
as for the cable. Therefore there would be no change with temperature
as both the cable and airframe would expand/contract at the same rate
with the temperature change. Sine we DO see a difference and we DO
compensate, the change is NOT small enough to ignore.
> The risk is that cables set to a "normal" tension in a cold
> environment could become so tight in high temps that control
> friction will go up and structural damage could occur. But again,
> probably unlikely with our little airplanes unless you really,
> really overdo it.
That is probably true but it is clear that it IS an issue and must be
done correctly.
> HSAT, Joe, you're right. There is no table in 43-13 (that I could
> find).
There can't be. It is airframe-dependent.
> I haven't had a chance to look through other standard FAA texts, but
> I did find a "typical" cable tension and temperature compensation
> table for various cable sizes in one of Dale Crane's books (Airframe
> Volume 1: Structures, fig. 4-42, p. 296, published by ASA--and no
> doubt taken straight from one of the FAA AC's), which I forwarded to
> Dan off list.
>
> Crane's table shows that the (recommended) tension (for the
> hypothetical "typical" airplane) on a 1/8" 7X19 cable would be 34
> lbs. at negative 40 degrees F (pretty damn cold!), and recommends
> 100 lbs. at plus 160 degrees F (really, really hot!). At 59 degrees
> F (standard day) the tension would be about 65 lbs. That's quite a
> broad range of acceptable tension (66 lbs. over 200 degrees F).
> Crane's table also says "values include 10% structural deflection."
> Hmmm.
Well, if the airplanes are of the same order, sizewise, i.e. if the
cable lengths are similar and the distance from trim wheel to trim-tab
is similar, you will have similar adjustment range.
> But the real question, still, is what is the mfr's "recommended"
> tension at some given temperature. Is it the same as Crane's
> "typical" chart? I don't know and worth looking into. That
> "recommended" tension is what "compensation" has to be applied to.
> My guess is it will be very close to what's shown in Crane's
> "typical" table, just as bolt torques nearly always are "typical"
> for a given size. Unless you grossly exceed "typical" values on the
> high side you're "probably" gonna be OK.
Actually bolt torque is not "typical". It is exacting as it is
determined by material, and thread pitch to give the proper amount of
"stretch" to the fastener. The only thing is that it has an acceptable
range.
> But do the homework, find the mfr's recommended value. And forget
> that plan to strap on those JATO bottles so you can fly nonstop from
> Coldfoot to Riyadh at 60,000 feet some fine winter day!
I agree ... if you can find the manufacturer's recommended value. But
not having that you can figure out what the cable and airframe
structures supporting the cable will allow without exceeding their
limits. Frankly, the structure, e.g. the idler fiddles, mounting
brackets, etc., are the limiting factor, not the cable itself. You
don't want the temperature getting so high on a hot day that the
mounting structures are deformed. So you pick a minimum acceptable
cable tension at the low temp, figure the distance, calculate the
differential length change based on coefficient of expansion
(expansion of Al minus expansion of steel), and then apply the modulus
of elasticity of the steel cable to determine how much the tension
will increase.
Believe it or not, this is NOT rocket science.
And, yes, it is MUCH easier to use the manufacturer's recommendations
because they have already done this work for you.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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On Mar 2, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Herb Coussons wrote:
> A nice March morning - 35 degrees - Above freezing for the first
> time this year. Starting to see the pavement in front of the hanger
> - the pile is about 10 ft high.
> Flying soon !!
You are nuts! The temp outside my hangar is about 70F and I am going
flying. Why do you guys insist on living in places that are clearly
not intended for human habitation?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 11
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Yes - they're shutting down satellite monitoring for ELT's on 121.5.
406 ELT's are the new standard. Better satellite monitoring and coded to
the owner.
If you have a ELT on 121.5 - you're relying on an airliner to hear it
and report it if you go down.
I'm waiting for the 406's to come down a bit in price before getting one.
--
Kurt Howerton
N923YK
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> Do we need them?
>
> I have heard yes and no......plus they are shutting down satellite monitoring
next year...
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167285#167285
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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I interpret 91.207 as requiring an ELT. Yes the aircraft are certified
in the experimental exhibition category, however I read the reg as
meaning ELT are not required when the aircraft is actively being used
for exhibition ie during the show. At all other flight times, the
aircraft isn't being operated solely as exhibition.
You are correct- SARSAT will no longer be monitoring 121.5 or 243
however the land based systems will still operate.
The 406 ELT's are coming down....just not into the realm of where most
people would like to see them.
my $.02
Cheers,
Cliff
Tim Gagnon wrote:
>
> Do we need them?
>
> I have heard yes and no......plus they are shutting down satellite monitoring
next year...
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167285#167285
>
>
>
--
Clifford Coy
Director of Maintenance
Border Air Ltd
629 Airport Rd.
Swanton, VT 05488
802-868-2822 TEL
802-868-4465 FAX
Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: cable tension |
More on cables;
The CJ6 Overhaul (Structural Repair) Manual undoubtedly has a
temperature compensating table. However that manual to the best of my
knowledge has not been translated to English so except for a few of the
illustrations it is useless.
As a result I have been tensioning the cables with reference to the
Harvard/T6 specifications. I initially checked undisturbed (presumably)
cables on aircraft as received from China and determined they were
within + 5lb of the Harvard specs. at 60 to 70 deg.F. Since the Chinese
cable is 0.020" larger in dia. (0.145") one would expect a small
increase in tension.
Some may suggest that procedure is unacceptable since the Harvard
fuselage utilizes both steel tube and semi-monocoque aluminium alloy
structure. However, the ailerons are also cable operated and the cable
runs are of similar length in totally al. alloy structure. One must at
some time make some assumptions and I have assumed that North American
developed their tension table based on the aileron system. There is only
one table.
As Brian has mentioned the most critical part of the cable system is the
attachment of pulley brackets. The loads are highly concentrated at
these points and one should be very careful to not over tension.
Jerry, I believe, mentioned that these are not "English" cables. They
very well may be of British design which was quite different than the
SAE cable standards we are familiar with.
Quite possible the current British standards are the same as the FAA but
that was not the case when the Yak18, 18A and, by extension, the CJ were
designed.
British cables were identified NOT by diameter but rather by breaking
strength.
For example a 20CWT cable had a break strength of 2160 lb. (20 X 108)
whether the cable was manufactured from carbon steel OR corrosion
resistant steel. The CRES cable was of larger diameter.
A standard 1/8" cable has a break strength of 2000lb in carbon steel and
1760 lb in CRES. Since the pneumatic systems on the CJ are carbon copies
of the Hurricane and Spitfire etc. it is quite possible the cables are
as well.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Painter
To: Yak List (yak-list@matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Yak-List: cable tension
Gents--
In the ultimate sense, what you say about differential
(aluminum) aircraft structure expansion/contraction being more of a
relative factor for change in cable tension than the (steel) cables is,
of course, true. Aluminum has a higher expansion rate than steel. But
we're talkin' little bitty airplanes here. Unless we're talkin' 'bout
BIG airplanes and BIG changes in temperature it ain't hardly nothin.'
That's why none (that I know of--which, admittedly, isn't much) of our
little GA Yak-sized, un-pressurized, low altitude, short range airplanes
has automatic temperature compensating cable tension adjusters (surely,
someone will find a contradictory example, no?). Because the structures
are so small the small temperature changes we usually encounter are
simply not a factor--except when you set the initial tension. Then, of
course, you do want to compensate for temperature so the load will stay
in the ballpark at all temps. The risk is that cables set to a "normal"
tension in a cold environment could become so tight in high temps that
control friction will go up and structural damage could occur. But
again, probably unlikely with our little airplanes unless you really,
really overdo it.
HSAT, Joe, you're right. There is no table in 43-13 (that I
could find). I haven't had a chance to look through other standard FAA
texts, but I did find a "typical" cable tension and temperature
compensation table for various cable sizes in one of Dale Crane's books
(Airframe Volume 1: Structures, fig. 4-42, p. 296, published by ASA--and
no doubt taken straight from one of the FAA AC's), which I forwarded to
Dan off list.
Crane's table shows that the (recommended) tension (for the
hypothetical "typical" airplane) on a 1/8" 7X19 cable would be 34 lbs.
at negative 40 degrees F (pretty damn cold!), and recommends 100 lbs. at
plus 160 degrees F (really, really hot!). At 59 degrees F (standard
day) the tension would be about 65 lbs. That's quite a broad range of
acceptable tension (66 lbs. over 200 degrees F). Crane's table also says
"values include 10% structural deflection." Hmmm.
But the real question, still, is what is the mfr's "recommended"
tension at some given temperature. Is it the same as Crane's "typical"
chart? I don't know and worth looking into. That "recommended" tension
is what "compensation" has to be applied to. My guess is it will be
very close to what's shown in Crane's "typical" table, just as bolt
torques nearly always are "typical" for a given size. Unless you
grossly exceed "typical" values on the high side you're "probably" gonna
be OK.
But do the homework, find the mfr's recommended value. And
forget that plan to strap on those JATO bottles so you can fly nonstop
from Coldfoot to Riyadh at 60,000 feet some fine winter day!
Jerry Painter
chief pilot, CFI, A&P, airport bum,
permanent latrine orderly &c.
Wild Blue Aviation
Arlington Municipal Airport (KAWO)
Hangar A-6
19203 59th Dr. NE
Arlington, WA 98223
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
http://www.FlyWBA.com
Message 14
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They are mandatory in Canada. I believe the 406 unit will be mandatory Feb.
2009.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Coy" <cliff@gesoco.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: ELT's
>
> I interpret 91.207 as requiring an ELT. Yes the aircraft are certified in
> the experimental exhibition category, however I read the reg as meaning
> ELT are not required when the aircraft is actively being used for
> exhibition ie during the show. At all other flight times, the aircraft
> isn't being operated solely as exhibition.
>
> You are correct- SARSAT will no longer be monitoring 121.5 or 243 however
> the land based systems will still operate.
>
> The 406 ELT's are coming down....just not into the realm of where most
> people would like to see them.
>
> my $.02
>
> Cheers,
> Cliff
>
> Tim Gagnon wrote:
>>
>> Do we need them?
>> I have heard yes and no......plus they are shutting down satellite
>> monitoring next year...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167285#167285
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Clifford Coy
> Director of Maintenance
> Border Air Ltd
> 629 Airport Rd.
> Swanton, VT 05488
> 802-868-2822 TEL
> 802-868-4465 FAX
> Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy <callto:cliff.coy>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Main Gear Actuator Seals |
Hey folks,
Can anyone tell me the US equivalent of the type of rubber (buna, etc.) of the
chevron seals on the piston of the gear actuators on the Yak 52? Also, what durometer?
I realize that this probably true (except for the durometer) for almost all the
seals in the air system.
TIA,
Mike Hastings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167343#167343
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