---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/04/08: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:41 AM - Re: WTB Parachute/GPS (GreasySideUp) 2. 07:39 AM - OSH 50 - Once in a Lifetime (Barry Hancock) 3. 10:21 AM - Re: ELT's (Craig Winkelmann, CFI) 4. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: ELT's (Tom Elliott) 5. 11:51 AM - Re: Re: ELT's (Cliff Coy) 6. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: ELT's (Tom Elliott) 7. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: ELT's (netmaster15@juno.com) 8. 03:57 PM - Re: OSH 50 - Once in a Lifetime (Cpayne) 9. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: ELT's (Cliff Coy) 10. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: ELT's (Roger Kemp M.D.) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:33 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: WTB Parachute/GPS From: "GreasySideUp" Will a Strong 306 fit in the Yak 50 seat? Also Dennis, sent you an email but have not heard back. Thanks, -j Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167591#167591 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:30 AM PST US From: Barry Hancock Subject: Yak-List: OSH 50 - Once in a Lifetime Gang, I've been having a discussion with my "Tiger Squadron" mates about planning our trek to OSH from the left coast. Here's what I said: +++++++ One thing I'd like us to consider when planning for OSH is that this is a ONCE IN A LIFETIME event. I think it's safe to say we will never see this many planes at OSH again. With fuel prices, etc., this pilgrimage is shaping up to be the pinnacle of OSH displays for us. That being said: Monday is the mass arrival at OSH. If we miss this we miss being a part of the largest ever RPA formation at OSH...or will ever be. Also the pre-OSH weekend is where ALL the practice for the new formations we'll be flying it taking place, positions assigned, etc. I figure leaving Thursday gives us a weather slip of one day to arrive sometime Saturday or early Sunday so we can participate in the practice. I personally want to make this thing look great and come off well as we (and the RPA) will be the center of attention all week. Without the practice I think we stand a good chance of making mistakes and looking bad....or worse. No one in our group has ever flown with close to this many airplanes....making it look like something other than a gaggle, much less something to be proud of, is going to take practice..... ++++++++++ So, my personal feeling is I want our 50 to be as memorable as when the T-6's put up 50... Remember, the T-6's are having their 70th anniversary this year, and I'm sure they'll have their stuff together. This is something we will tell our grandkids about, and I want to tell them we were the best! And something we'll never have the chance to see again in our lifetime... Food for thought, Bdog ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:30 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: ELT's From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" Dear Tom: I was not sitting with a copy of the FARs on my lap when I wrote my comments on ELTs. Yes there are exceptions. I wrote to the majority (CJ and 52 owners). Yes, single seat airplanes (do I have to list them?) do not need ELTs OR parachutes. The FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself, only if you have a passenger. And, YES, we in CAP are acutely aware of all ramifications of ELTs - thank you very much. Hell, I get out of bed in the middle of the night to go find em sometimes. Do you? Last one was in a Yak 52 at 3 am. While we still have 121.5 ELTs, it is a good idea to tune a radio to 121.5 before engine shutdown and check to see if you hear your ELT. Once we go to 406, we can't do this anymore. It would save a great deal of time, effort, and your tax dollars if CAP didn't have to do this for you. Regards, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=167678#167678 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:24 AM PST US From: "Tom Elliott" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: ELT's --> Dear Tom: I was not sitting with a copy of the FARs on my lap when I wrote my comments on ELTs. Yes there are exceptions. I wrote to the majority (CJ and 52 owners). Yes, single seat airplanes (do I have to list them?) do not need ELTs OR parachutes. The FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself, only if you have a passenger. And, YES, we in CAP are acutely aware of all ramifications of ELTs - thank you very much. Hell, I get out of bed in the middle of the night to go find em sometimes. Do you? Last one was in a Yak 52 at 3 am. While we still have 121.5 ELTs, it is a good idea to tune a radio to 121.5 before engine shutdown and check to see if you hear your ELT. Once we go to 406, we can't do this anymore. It would save a great deal of time, effort, and your tax dollars if CAP didn't have to do this for you. Regards, Craig Craig, if you felt tweaked well? But you did not address my issue. You stated that if people did NOT have an ELT they were illegally operating their aircraft. We have enough bad info on this list as is! So when someone who use's this list to disseminates inaccurate info and also sign's with a title that implies knowledge (i.e. Capt CAP)I think the correct info should be brought to the list's attention. Which I did by posting the FAR 14CFR91.207 parg. F that shows that in many types of operations you are not violating the FAR's by operating with OUT an ELT. And that include more than just single seat aircraft. Regards, Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 8:35 AM ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:51:18 AM PST US From: Cliff Coy Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ELT's Tom...maybe you should call your FSDO and get their ruling. My argument is pretty much the opinion of the FAA over here- When the aircraft is not being used for exhibition at a "scheduled air event" then an ELT is required to be installed in the aircraft. This is not mis-information, this is the ruling of the Portland FSDO. So if you don't want some ASI with a chip on his shoulder hanging paper on your plane, then it's /advisable/ that you spend the $400 and install an ELT which /just might/ save your butt. Cliff Tom Elliott wrote: > > --> > > Dear Tom: > > I was not sitting with a copy of the FARs on my lap when I wrote my comments > on ELTs. Yes there are exceptions. I wrote to the majority (CJ and 52 > owners). Yes, single seat airplanes (do I have to list them?) do not need > ELTs OR parachutes. The FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself, only if you > have a passenger. > > And, YES, we in CAP are acutely aware of all ramifications of ELTs - thank > you very much. Hell, I get out of bed in the middle of the night to go find > em sometimes. Do you? Last one was in a Yak 52 at 3 am. > > While we still have 121.5 ELTs, it is a good idea to tune a radio to 121.5 > before engine shutdown and check to see if you hear your ELT. Once we go to > 406, we can't do this anymore. It would save a great deal of time, effort, > and your tax dollars if CAP didn't have to do this for you. > > Regards, > > Craig > > Craig, if you felt tweaked well? But you did not address my issue. You > stated that if people did NOT have an ELT > they were illegally operating their aircraft. We have enough bad info on > this list as is! So when someone who use's > this list to disseminates inaccurate info and also sign's with a title that > implies knowledge (i.e. Capt CAP)I think > the correct info should be brought to the list's attention. Which I did by > posting the FAR 14CFR91.207 parg. F that shows > that in many types of operations you are not violating the FAR's by > operating with OUT an ELT. And that include more than > just single seat aircraft. > > Regards, > Tom Elliott > CJ-6A NX63727 > 702-595-2680 > > 8:35 AM > > > > -- Clifford Coy Director of Maintenance Border Air Ltd 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:56 PM PST US From: "Tom Elliott" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: ELT's Tom...maybe you should call your FSDO and get their ruling. My argument is pretty much the opinion of the FAA over here- When the aircraft is not being used for exhibition at a "scheduled air event" then an ELT is required to be installed in the aircraft. This is not mis-information, this is the ruling of the Portland FSDO. Cliff I am not looking for a fight. But that attitude is the reason we have many rules put on our flying not by law but because some(FSDO) person thinks in their own mind we should or do this or that. Because of this the Operating limits on like aircraft vary greatly from FSDO to FSDO. When I move my plane from one FSDO to another the new inspector made the statement ( I wonder what he was smoking ) They were referring to how the operating limits were written. And completely rewrote mine to be much less restrictive. This the last post by me on this subject. Just remember (ref: FSDO inspectors ) Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. And an opinion is not an FAR. And I do have an ELT in my plane because I choose too not because I have too. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 8:35 AM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:22 PM PST US From: "netmaster15@juno.com" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ELT's Hi Cliff, this is Cliff; Are you by any chance selling the new 406s? If not, do you know the best place which is offering us a special price? I might just as we ll go ahead now and buy the new 406. It""s just a matter of finding the best vendor. Thanks for your posts Cliff Umscheid -- Cliff Coy wrote: Tom...maybe you should call your FSDO and get their ruling. My argument is pretty much the opinion of the FAA over here- When the aircraft is not being used for exhibition at a "scheduled air event" then an ELT is required to be installed in the aircraft. This is not mis-information, this is the ruling of the Portland FSDO. So if you don't want some ASI with a chip on his shoulder hanging paper on your plane, then it's /advisable/ that you spend the $400 and install an ELT which /just might/ save your butt. Cliff Tom Elliott wrote: > > --> > > Dear Tom: > > I was not sitting with a copy of the FARs on my lap when I wrote my co mments > on ELTs. Yes there are exceptions. I wrote to the majority (CJ and 5 2 > owners). Yes, single seat airplanes (do I have to list them?) do not need > ELTs OR parachutes. The FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself, only i f you > have a passenger. > > And, YES, we in CAP are acutely aware of all ramifications of ELTs - t hank > you very much. Hell, I get out of bed in the middle of the night to g o find > em sometimes. Do you? Last one was in a Yak 52 at 3 am. > > While we still have 121.5 ELTs, it is a good idea to tune a radio to 1 21.5 > before engine shutdown and check to see if you hear your ELT. Once we go to > 406, we can't do this anymore. It would save a great deal of time, ef fort, > and your tax dollars if CAP didn't have to do this for you. > > Regards, > > Craig > > Craig, if you felt tweaked well? But you did not address my issue. You > stated that if people did NOT have an ELT > they were illegally operating their aircraft. We have enough bad info on > this list as is! So when someone who use's > this list to disseminates inaccurate info and also sign's with a title that > implies knowledge (i.e. Capt CAP)I think > the correct info should be brought to the list's attention. Which I di d by > posting the FAR 14CFR91.207 parg. F that shows > that in many types of operations you are not violating the FAR's by > operating with OUT an ELT. And that include more than > just single seat aircraft. > > Regards, > Tom Elliott > CJ-6A NX63727 > 702-595-2680 > > 8:35 AM > > > > -- Clifford Coy Director of Maintenance Border Air Ltd 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== _____________________________________________________________ Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2121/fc/Ioyw6i3nEzs8Ne5AQIjgEjYzSFyQ CZKuGSrYCVW5uuwZhNK1baR9qT/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:50 PM PST US From: Cpayne Subject: Yak-List: Re: OSH 50 - Once in a Lifetime Yowlsir, Yowlsir; It will be a big event and we will have a great time. Many activities and perks are planned for participants. While the CJ-6 is highlighted, we need ALL RedStar aircraft to fly, NOT JUST 50 AIRPLANES. This means Yaks; even IARs will pass muster from 2000 AGL. In order to accurately plan for a smooth running event, we need everyone to register for the activities they will be partaking in. This means Oshkosh attendance as well as the Pre-OSH work-up at ETB. Visit your flyredstar.org site soon! Craig Payne ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:49 PM PST US From: Cliff Coy Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: ELT's I'm not itching for a fight either. I apologize for getting "caught up in the moment". You are correct that even different ASI's in the same FSDO will interpret the FAR's differently. I felt you were the pot calling the kettle black with the "mis-information" statement and was merely pointing out that in some parts of the country, operating without an ELT will be considered a violation of the FARs. In any event, I'm holding out for both ACK and Ameriking to release their respective ELTs. Both companies are working diligently on replacements for their current line. If I remember correctly, ACK got sent to the back of the certification line for snafu or something. Cheers, Cliff netmaster15@juno.com wrote: > > Hi Cliff, this is Cliff; > Are you by any chance selling the new 406s? If not, do you > know the best place which is offering us a special price? I might > just as well go ahead now and buy the new 406. It""s just a matter of > finding the best vendor. > > Thanks for your posts > > Cliff Umscheid > > -- Cliff Coy wrote: > > Tom...maybe you should call your FSDO and get their ruling. > > My argument is pretty much the opinion of the FAA over here- > > When the aircraft is not being used for exhibition at a "scheduled air > event" then an ELT is required to be installed in the aircraft. > This is not mis-information, this is the ruling of the Portland FSDO. > > So if you don't want some ASI with a chip on his shoulder hanging paper > on your plane, then it's /advisable/ that you spend the $400 and install > an ELT which /just might/ save your butt. > > Cliff > > Tom Elliott wrote: > > > > --> > > > > Dear Tom: > > > > I was not sitting with a copy of the FARs on my lap when I wrote my > comments > > on ELTs. Yes there are exceptions. I wrote to the majority (CJ and 52 > > owners). Yes, single seat airplanes (do I have to list them?) do > not need > > ELTs OR parachutes. The FAA doesn't care if you kill yourself, only > if you > > have a passenger. > > > > And, YES, we in CAP are acutely aware of all ramifications of ELTs - > thank > > you very much. Hell, I get out of bed in the middle of the night to > go find > > em sometimes. Do you? Last one was in a Yak 52 at 3 am. > > > > While we still have 121.5 ELTs, it is a good idea to tune a radio to > 121.5 > > before engine shutdown and check to see if you hear your ELT. Once > we go to > > 406, we can't do this anymore. It would save a great deal of time, > effort, > > and your tax dollars if CAP didn't have to do this for you. > > > > Regards, > > > > Craig > > > > Craig, if you felt tweaked well? But you did not address my issue. You > > stated that if people did NOT have an ELT > > they were illegally operating their aircraft. We have enough bad info on > > this list as is! So when someone who use's > > this list to disseminates inaccurate info and also sign's with a > title that > > implies knowledge (i.e. Capt CAP)I think > > the correct info should be brought to the list's attention. Which I > did by > > posting the FAR 14CFR91.207 parg. F that shows > > that in many types of operations you are not violating the FAR's by > > operating with OUT an ELT. And that include more than > > just single seat aircraft. > > > > Regards, > > Tom Elliott > > CJ-6A NX63727 > > 702-595-2680 > > > > 8:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Clifford Coy > Director of Maintenance > Border Air Ltd > 629 Airport Rd. > Swanton, VT 05488 > 802-868-2822 TEL > 802-868-4================================================-= --> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > MATRONICS WE================================================; - > List Contribution Web Site - > _sp; &nb================================================ > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Click for travel nursing jobs and see the world. > > * > > > * -- Clifford Coy Director of Maintenance Border Air Ltd 629 Airport Rd. Swanton, VT 05488 802-868-2822 TEL 802-868-4465 FAX Skype: callto:Cliff.Coy ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:04 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: ELT's Aircraft Spruce has the 406 elts. They are not cheap though. Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:43 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: ELT's Tom...maybe you should call your FSDO and get their ruling. My argument is pretty much the opinion of the FAA over here- When the aircraft is not being used for exhibition at a "scheduled air event" then an ELT is required to be installed in the aircraft. This is not mis-information, this is the ruling of the Portland FSDO. Cliff I am not looking for a fight. But that attitude is the reason we have many rules put on our flying not by law but because some(FSDO) person thinks in their own mind we should or do this or that. Because of this the Operating limits on like aircraft vary greatly from FSDO to FSDO. When I move my plane from one FSDO to another the new inspector made the statement ( I wonder what he was smoking ) They were referring to how the operating limits were written. And completely rewrote mine to be much less restrictive. This the last post by me on this subject. Just remember (ref: FSDO inspectors ) Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. And an opinion is not an FAR. And I do have an ELT in my plane because I choose too not because I have too. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 8:35 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.