Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:24 AM - Sun =?ISO-8859-1?B?jG4=?= Fun Guide for 2008 (David McGirt)
2. 10:39 AM - CJ Headroom - (Hal)
3. 10:40 AM - Uk Bound Container (kp)
4. 11:05 AM - Re: Uk Bound Container (doug sapp)
5. 11:26 AM - Tools for the Yak (GreasySideUp)
6. 11:27 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Mod Update 3/17 (Barry Hancock)
7. 11:28 AM - Fw: OSH (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 02:29 PM - Timing the 285 HP Housai (Walt Murphy)
9. 03:22 PM - Re: CJ Headroom - (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
12. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 04:46 PM - Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Mark Schrick)
15. 05:03 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (david stroud)
17. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (A. Dennis Savarese)
19. 05:42 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Brian Lloyd)
20. 06:18 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (david stroud)
21. 06:23 PM - Re: Timing the 285 HP Housai (A. Dennis Savarese)
22. 06:36 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Jay Land)
23. 08:47 PM - 285 timing (Joe Howse)
24. 09:38 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Brian Lloyd)
25. 11:44 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Sun =?ISO-8859-1?B?jG4=?= Fun Guide for 2008 |
Sun n Fun Guide for 2008
by Craig Payne (cpayne@joimail.com)
Sun n Fun is NOT an EAA event but works like Oshkosh for warbirds.
Use the WB South arrival per notam on 119.25 (usually) 10 miles @ 2500
Really scary *stuff* happens in Lakeland skies. Check 6 often.
Parachute packing in back of tent near WB registration - See Deborah.
Bring sun screen, tiedowns, canopy cover and sturdy gust locks.
Hotel 1 is new Holiday Inn, Winter Haven. $122.08 use WB mail-in form.
New Holiday Inn is the old Days Inn on 200 Cypress Gardens Blvd.
Hotel 2 Hampton Inn, Winter Haven. $110.88 through WB mail-in form.
Hotel 3 is old Holiday Inn at 1150 Third St, NW, Winter Haven. $86.24
WB shuttle van runs between WB hut and hotels sporadically
Use Polk Co. Pkwy (570) toll to/from airport for quickest way to hotels.
The Hojo is next to Hotel 3 $80 + tx (863) 294-7321 or favorite website
Friday night airshow is best viewed from my hanger; bring beverage.
WB Awards Banquet is at Fantasy of Flight museum on Saturday night
Thank you for the info Craig
Message 2
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In response to Mark, both head room and leg room can be a problem depending
on how one's body is configured. The Malcom Hood canopy does great things
for the pilot's headroom; it looks like Barry's pedal mod will help out with
the leg room considerably.
Just being able to lift the seat a bit or extend one's legs a few inches
makes a huge difference on those 3.5 hour XC runs.
For the long trips I have also installed a biker style foot bar on the
forward bulkhead. That makes it much more comfortable than resting my feet
on the center of the pedal beam.
With an auto pilot, built in O2 and 74 gallons feeding the M14 with 3 bladed
MT I can go high, long and comfortable coming over to visit with y'all. Of
course John Cox in the back at 6'4" and growing has a different perspective
on "long and comfortable". We're working on that.
What I would like to see is a canopy mod that would change out the entire CJ
canopy by making it higher and a bit wider. Not quite the room of a T6 but
along those lines. The current canopy looks small for the plane; the Malcom
looks fine but is generally limited to the front seat. If a group of guys
wanted to pool resources to redesign the whole canopy and solve this height
issue I'd participate.
Batman
Message 3
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| Subject: | Uk Bound Container |
A few weeks back somebody was getting set to ship an aircraft to the UK
from the US and was promoting space in the container.
If you're still out there please contact me off list.
Rgds
kp
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Uk Bound Container |
Contact me too, I have an engine going to the UK.
On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:36 AM, kp <pilko2@btinternet.com> wrote:
> A few weeks back somebody was getting set to ship an aircraft to the UK
> from the US and was promoting space in the container.
>
> If you're still out there please contact me off list.
>
> Rgds
> kp
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tools for the Yak |
Anyone have any extra tools for the Yak? Specifically looking for the Air fill
tool but I'll eventually need just about everything.
Thanks,
Josh
greasysideup (at) hotmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170998#170998
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Pedal Mod Update 3/17 |
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (909) 606-4444
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Express Mailing address:
7000 Merrill Ave, B-110, Unit J
Chino, CA 91710
Regular Mailing address:
7000 Merrill Ave., Box 91
Chino, CA 91710
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients. If
the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, forwarding or
copying of this message is strictly prohibited. Please notify us
immediately by reply e-mail or telephone, and delete the original
message and all attachments from your system. Thank you
On Mar 18, 2008, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> Barry:
>
> I beleive you are going to run the first set thru destructive
> testing and refitting
> to the CJ. Keep us posted on the outcome.
That should happen this Friday. If all goes well we'll start
delivering orders shortly after that...
Also, we finally have all the pieces made for the 30 gallon fuel
tanks. First one will go to the welder tomorrow. We should have the
first set read for installation in a few weeks. I figure another
couple weeks on the install and then we'll be on to aircraft 2 &3.
After that will we be able to develop methodology and instructions to
deliver in a kit form.
Happy Flying!
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (909) 606-4444
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.cj6.com
Express Mailing address:
7000 Merrill Ave, B-110, Unit J
Chino, CA 91710
Regular Mailing address:
7000 Merrill Ave., Box 91
Chino, CA 91710
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for
the personal and confidential use of the designated recipients. If
the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, forwarding or
copying of this message is strictly prohibited. Please notify us
immediately by reply e-mail or telephone, and delete the original
message and all attachments from your system. Thank you
>
Message 7
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0-885790693-1205948655=:74504--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Timing the 285 HP Housai |
I'm looking for input on what tool is best to use to time the Mag to
engine.
I have the directions, what I don't have is the tool.
I understand that the Chinese tool is just a TDC indicator ( I don't
have one this is just hearsay) .
I can find TDC with a screwdriver..
Does anyone have info on a tool that I could buy or make or adapt or ???
Thanks,
Walt Murphy
CJ-6A
Reno, NV
Message 9
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That's a really great idea.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hal
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 13:34
Subject: Yak-List: CJ Headroom -
In response to Mark, both head room and leg room can be a problem
depending on how one's body is configured. The Malcom Hood canopy does
great things for the pilot's headroom; it looks like Barry's pedal mod
will help out with the leg room considerably.
Just being able to lift the seat a bit or extend one's legs a few inches
makes a huge difference on those 3.5 hour XC runs.
For the long trips I have also installed a biker style foot bar on the
forward bulkhead. That makes it much more comfortable than resting my
feet on the center of the pedal beam.
With an auto pilot, built in O2 and 74 gallons feeding the M14 with 3
bladed MT I can go high, long and comfortable coming over to visit with
y'all. Of course John Cox in the back at 6'4" and growing has a
different perspective on "long and comfortable". We're working on that.
What I would like to see is a canopy mod that would change out the
entire CJ canopy by making it higher and a bit wider. Not quite the
room of a T6 but along those lines. The current canopy looks small for
the plane; the Malcom looks fine but is generally limited to the front
seat. If a group of guys wanted to pool resources to redesign the whole
canopy and solve this height issue I'd participate.
Batman
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say 7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding 450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
Then what was that junk that came out of it's mouth when that huge trap about cut
the one I saw in half?
Oh...... Never mind.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:58
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
In a message dated 3/17/2008 1:48:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, brian-1927@lloyd.com
writes:
On Mar 17, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Kurt Howerton wrote:
>
> Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
F'in big rat!
Did you know rats can't vomit?
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
________________________________
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance. <http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
That's a RAT ROD, not a RAT MOTOR.
Not the same thing Kemo-Sabi.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KingCJ6@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 0:06
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Per Wikipedia:
Originally a counter-reaction to the 50s "Hot Rod", a label recently
applied to undriven cars and super high priced "customs". The "Rat
Rod"'s beginning was a throwback to the Hot Rods of the earlier days of
Hot Rodding, built to the best of the owner's abilities and meant to be
driven. Rat Rods are meant to loosely imitate in form and function, the
"Traditional" Hot Rods of the era. Biker
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biker> , greaser
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaser> , rockabilly
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockabilly> , and punk
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_subculture> culture is often
credited as influence that shapes of Rat Rodding.
The typical rat rod (an early 1920s <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920s>
through 1950s <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950s> coupe
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupe> or roadster
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster> ): Early (pre-World War II
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II> ) vehicles often have their
fenders, hoods, running boards, and bumpers removed. The bodies are
frequently channeled over the frame, and sectioned, or the roofs chopped
for a lower profile. Later post-war vehicles are rarely constructed
without fenders and are often customized in the fashion of Kustoms
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kustom> , leadsleds
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadsled> , and low-riders. Maltese
crosses, skulls, and other accessories are often added. Chopped tops,
shaved trim, grills, tail lights, and other miscellaneous body parts are
swapped between makes and models. Most, if not all of the work and
engineering is done by the owner of the vehicle.
Recently, the
________________________________
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
RAT motors are considered to be any of the Big Block Chevy engines starting...
As I remember it... With the 409, then the 396, 427, 454, 502, etc. The small
block engines are called "Mouse Motors", and include the 283, 302, 307, 327,
350, 400.
The term RAT MOTOR came from the drag racer who first became famous for running
them, which I THINK might have been Grumpy Jenkins, but I am not positive about
just who it was. In any case, his car had a name that had "Rat" in it... I
want to say "The Rat". There was a big picture on the side of the race car showing
this huge rat reaching up and grabbing the shifter. This started the whole
thing about big blocks being called "Rat Motors".
I run a 605HP 502 CU Rat in my 68 Camaro.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 22:14
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
> > Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
>
> F'in big rat!
>
> Did you know rats can't vomit?
Considering what they eat, that is probably to ensure they keep their lunch down.
And I am still interested in a "rat motor".
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 14
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW |
engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed and made by the
same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would trust thier Dyno over anything
the Russians have. Think of the money NASCAR has compared to the dying Russian
motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the money to design
a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By the RAT Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say 7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding 450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
p; he Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Actually, I am pretty sure that the guys in question have yet to Dyno
the M-14 Rat. However, I think a 10% increase in horsepower by raising
the compression ratio, adding the rings, and prepping the heads, as I
saw done to Sergei's engine (before it bit the dust) could be a fair
assumption.
You have to be careful though Shrek... The Russians have done some
interesting stuff with their M-9 engine and also fuel injection on the
standard M-14, which I am sure Richard can tell you all about.
That said, you're right. NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN COMPARE TO AMERICANS
WHEN IT COMES TIME TO SOUP UP AN ENGINE, especially when you add in the
cost to do it. What's better than anything is that we can do it legally.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 19:44
Subject: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs
Russian NEW engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed and
made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would trust thier
Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money NASCAR has
compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the
money to design a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By the
RAT Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say 7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding 450hp* with
all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also comparative
observation by independent third party pilots (with substantial
experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
<http://www.matronicss/>
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
Jeeze..right you are Mark and that brings back excellent memories of the early
'70's up here. A good buddy had a 450 hp 427 in a late '60's Chevelle and when
he got married, the bitch made him take out the rat and put in a "mouse". He did
and has never been the same since.........
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
> RAT motors are considered to be any of the Big Block Chevy engines starting...
As I remember it... With the 409, then the 396,
427, 454, 502, etc. The small block engines are called "Mouse Motors", and include
the 283, 302, 307, 327, 350, 400.
>
> The term RAT MOTOR came from the drag racer who first became famous for running
them, which I THINK might have been Grumpy
Jenkins, but I am not positive about just who it was. In any case, his car had
a name that had "Rat" in it... I want to say "The
Rat". There was a big picture on the side of the race car showing this huge rat
reaching up and grabbing the shifter. This started
the whole thing about big blocks being called "Rat Motors".
>
> I run a 605HP 502 CU Rat in my 68 Camaro.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 22:14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
>
> > > Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
> >
> > F'in big rat!
> >
> > Did you know rats can't vomit?
>
> Considering what they eat, that is probably to ensure they keep their lunch down.
>
> And I am still interested in a "rat motor".
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
David,
You and others might find it interesting to know that recently the Speed Channel
guys on TV did a retro test on all the old original Muscle Car engines of that
period. The "story" back then is that the factory ALWAYS under-rated them
for insurance purposes. For example, the LS-6 454 cranked out 500 HP stock.
I forget what your friends 427 actually did, but it was over 450 HP !!! The real
sleeper of the crowd? Mopar's 426 Hemi. I about choked on dinner. That
stock motor with the optional factory cam turned out EIGHT HUNDRED AND THIRTY
HORSEPOWER ON THE DYNO !!! My God.
And here I thought I was something with 605 HP. NOT.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of david stroud
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 21:03
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Jeeze..right you are Mark and that brings back excellent memories of the early
'70's up here. A good buddy had a 450 hp 427 in a late '60's Chevelle and when
he got married, the bitch made him take out the rat and put in a "mouse". He
did and has never been the same since.........
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
> RAT motors are considered to be any of the Big Block Chevy engines starting...
As I remember it... With the 409, then the 396,
427, 454, 502, etc. The small block engines are called "Mouse Motors", and include
the 283, 302, 307, 327, 350, 400.
>
> The term RAT MOTOR came from the drag racer who first became famous for running
them, which I THINK might have been Grumpy
Jenkins, but I am not positive about just who it was. In any case, his car had
a name that had "Rat" in it... I want to say "The
Rat". There was a big picture on the side of the race car showing this huge rat
reaching up and grabbing the shifter. This started
the whole thing about big blocks being called "Rat Motors".
>
> I run a 605HP 502 CU Rat in my 68 Camaro.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 22:14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
>
> > > Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
> >
> > F'in big rat!
> >
> > Did you know rats can't vomit?
>
> Considering what they eat, that is probably to ensure they keep their lunch down.
>
> And I am still interested in a "rat motor".
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
You left out one of the mouse motors Mark.....the predecessor to the 283 and
its successors, the 265. The 1st Chevy OHV V8 engine was a 265 Cu. In.
engine, introduced in 1955 Chevy. Physically looks identical to the 283.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> RAT motors are considered to be any of the Big Block Chevy engines
> starting... As I remember it... With the 409, then the 396, 427, 454, 502,
> etc. The small block engines are called "Mouse Motors", and include the
> 283, 302, 307, 327, 350, 400.
>
> The term RAT MOTOR came from the drag racer who first became famous for
> running them, which I THINK might have been Grumpy Jenkins, but I am not
> positive about just who it was. In any case, his car had a name that had
> "Rat" in it... I want to say "The Rat". There was a big picture on the
> side of the race car showing this huge rat reaching up and grabbing the
> shifter. This started the whole thing about big blocks being called "Rat
> Motors".
>
> I run a 605HP 502 CU Rat in my 68 Camaro.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 22:14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
>
>> > Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
>>
>> F'in big rat!
>>
>> Did you know rats can't vomit?
>
> Considering what they eat, that is probably to ensure they keep their
> lunch down.
>
> And I am still interested in a "rat motor".
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
On Mar 19, 2008, at 4:44 PM, Mark Schrick wrote:
> By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed
> and made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would
> trust thier Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money
> NASCAR has compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
>
Mark: a dyno is a dyno. It measures torque at various RPMs. It doesn't
matter who makes it and it doesn't matter if it is used to measure
output of an M14P or a big-block chevy.
> The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the
> money to design a higher HP engine.
But that doesn't have anything to do with measuring the HP output.
Also, I didn't know you were working for the Russians and could speak
to their various companies and development teams.
> Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
No, that is your cold, hard opinion.
> You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By
> the RAT Engine..
And I am *still* waiting for someone to tell me what the RAT engine
is. Could someone who KNOWS please reply to me with FACTS! I am
*serious* about buying another engine and I want to know if there are
other options besides the obvious.
(Gawd, this is like pulling teeth!)
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Given the aforementioned off topic references to the auto style
Chev Rat motor , is it possible that the Chinese "Rat" motor might
just be a "hotrodded" and misnomered souped up version of the
Chinese engine? I think i've heard of rat bikes and rat rods, sometimes
just meaning some type of low cost build up of the type that looks pretty
ugly but goes like stink ?
David Stroud Ottawa, Canada
C-FDWS Christavia
Fairchild 51 under construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian
NEW engine
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2008, at 4:44 PM, Mark Schrick wrote:
>
> > By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed
> > and made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would
> > trust thier Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money
> > NASCAR has compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
> >
> Mark: a dyno is a dyno. It measures torque at various RPMs. It doesn't
> matter who makes it and it doesn't matter if it is used to measure
> output of an M14P or a big-block chevy.
>
> > The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the
> > money to design a higher HP engine.
>
> But that doesn't have anything to do with measuring the HP output.
>
> Also, I didn't know you were working for the Russians and could speak
> to their various companies and development teams.
>
> > Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
>
> No, that is your cold, hard opinion.
>
> > You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By
> > the RAT Engine..
>
> And I am *still* waiting for someone to tell me what the RAT engine
> is. Could someone who KNOWS please reply to me with FACTS! I am
> *serious* about buying another engine and I want to know if there are
> other options besides the obvious.
>
> (Gawd, this is like pulling teeth!)
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Timing the 285 HP Housai |
You can use the following two instruments. One is a magneto synchronizer
which you will need to time and synchronize each mag. The other which is a
timing disk that mounts to the prop dome or spinner and is used to read the
timing degrees after you establish #4 cylinder at TDC. As a reminder, the
number stamped in the boss of the magneto under the cover is to be
correlated to the proper number of degrees in the Huosai engine timing chart
(see attached).
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID5&ReturnPage=/shop/search_result.aspx?PageNo=1
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=LED52&ReturnPage=/shop/search_result.aspx?PageNo=2
Hope this helps.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Murphy" <waltmurphy@charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:26 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Timing the 285 HP Housai
>
> I'm looking for input on what tool is best to use to time the Mag to
> engine.
> I have the directions, what I don't have is the tool.
> I understand that the Chinese tool is just a TDC indicator ( I don't have
> one this is just hearsay) .
> I can find TDC with a screwdriver..
> Does anyone have info on a tool that I could buy or make or adapt or ???
>
> Thanks,
> Walt Murphy
> CJ-6A
> Reno, NV
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Call him and ask him about his motors
Bill Blackwell
623-703-1001
>
> And I am *still* waiting for someone to tell me what the RAT engine
> is. Could someone who KNOWS please reply to me with FACTS! I am
> *serious* about buying another engine and I want to know if there are
> other options besides the obvious.
>
> (Gawd, this is like pulling teeth!)
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
Message 23
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The Chinese engine manual shows the timing tool; it is a strip of thin
metal marked in degrees (looks like a metal ruler) ,
you slide it in between the upper cowl and the vane ring,
Then fasten a pointer to the propeller and with # 4 at TDC, position the
metal strip so that the "0" mark matches the pointer, then move the prop
to the required advance using the mag markings described by Dennis.
Joe
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
On Mar 19, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Jay Land wrote:
>
> Call him and ask him about his motors
>
> Bill Blackwell
> 623-703-1001
Ah, so Bill is the guy doing this. Thank you.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 25
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
The Russians do have new engines: the M14R and the M9F give 450 HP or more.
And it seems that they can also beef up these engines much higher when
necessary. The Russian team in Spain last year at the World Aerobatics
championships had a Sukhoi 26 M3 (Svetlana Kapanina flew it) with an engine
that was close to 500 HP (this is an uncontrolled statement, but it was a
standard M9F that had been modified).
Saying that they do not have the money to design a higher HP engine is also
untrue. Due to their oil wealth, it seems that they can do what they want,
IF they want to do it. For instance, the brand new Yak 18T's with modern
avionics and NEW engines (for very high prices unfortunately).
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: donderdag 20 maart 2008 0:44
Subject: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs
Russian NEW engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed and made
by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would trust thier Dyno over
anything the Russians have. Think of the money NASCAR has compared to the
dying Russian motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the money to
design a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By the RAT
Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say 7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding 450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
<http://www.matronicss/>
p; he Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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