Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:41 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (kp)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (cjpilot710@AOL.COM)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (kp)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (ronald wasson)
5. 07:26 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (kp)
6. 08:38 AM - 285 for sale (ONTHEGOSA@aol.com)
7. 08:55 AM - High Powered Engines (Richard Goode)
8. 09:19 AM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian N (Dale)
9. 10:31 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 03/19/08 (Robert Starnes)
10. 11:20 AM - fuel injection (was:Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ...) (Brian Lloyd)
11. 11:45 AM - Re: fuel injection (was:Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ...) (Wesley Warner)
12. 12:21 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Brian Lloyd)
13. 01:23 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 01:30 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
15. 02:07 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 02:14 PM - More fuel (Doug Zeissner)
17. 02:20 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 02:23 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
19. 02:56 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
20. 03:04 PM - Radial Friendly airports between Phoenix and Jersey (GreasySideUp)
21. 03:27 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
22. 04:40 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Walter Lannon)
23. 04:58 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW... (KJKimball@aol.com)
24. 05:19 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW ... (Brian Lloyd)
25. 05:38 PM - Re: Radial Friendly airports between Phoenix and Jersey (Sarah Tobin)
26. 06:31 PM - While Youre at Leeward During S&F (Ernest Martinez)
27. 06:50 PM - Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? (Tim Gagnon)
28. 07:13 PM - Re: Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? (Ernest Martinez)
29. 08:33 PM - Re: Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? (ByronMFox@aol.com)
30. 09:27 PM - Good Strong 285 for Sale (ONTHEGOSA@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more horsepower ......
check out the photos taken a few years ago in Russia............. the
actual output is unspecified but with full fuel injection and no
accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger output...... I
bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the downside of
heavily modified competition motors.
*************************************************************************
*******
Incidentally the 'Rat Motor' label is only correctly used to describe
the Big Block Chevy series as identified on the list by others. Also, as
good as the 426 Hemi from Mopar was it was incapable of producing better
than one horsepower per cubic inch in stock form...... even when
blueprinted. In Hot Rod circles the big displacement Chryslers were
"Elephant" motors
The references to Grumpy Jenkins is pretty accurate and I think the
legendry T shirt cartoonist Ed Roth was involved with the plagiarism of
his "Rat Fink" logo.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW engine
The Russians do have new engines: the M14R and the M9F give 450 HP or
more. And it seems that they can also beef up these engines much higher
when necessary. The Russian team in Spain last year at the World
Aerobatics championships had a Sukhoi 26 M3 (Svetlana Kapanina flew it)
with an engine that was close to 500 HP (this is an uncontrolled
statement, but it was a standard M9F that had been modified).
Saying that they do not have the money to design a higher HP engine is
also untrue. Due to their oil wealth, it seems that they can do what
they want, IF they want to do it. For instance, the brand new Yak 18T's
with modern avionics and NEW engines (for very high prices
unfortunately).
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: donderdag 20 maart 2008 0:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs
Russian NEW engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed and
made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would trust thier
Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money NASCAR has
compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the
money to design a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By the
RAT Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure power and
to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say 7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question is:
"By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding 450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
s
p; he Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===============
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more horsepower ......
check out the photos taken a few years ago in Russia............. the actual
output is unspecified but with full fuel injection and no accessories coupled
to
the vastly improved supercharger output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of
as little as 50 hours are the downside of heavily modified competition motors.
******************************************************************************
**
I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate me. Looking
at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the super charger.
However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see any advantage. The
fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up stream of the intake
valve.
As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly into the
cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly with the 'gami'
(sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in shape or
rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design, I can understand
but I just don't see the advantage here.
Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most horsepower? The
domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless rings?
No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the intake pipe
produces more power and is any different than injecting it at the carb and my
limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Because injection of highly volatile Avgas direct into a hot combustion
chamber would create uncontrollable detonation. Petrol Fuel Injectors
are always in the inlet tract and not the cylinder. There are a tiny
number of GDI (gasoline direct injection) exceptions to that rule but
these are not high performance designs, they are only targeting low
emissions.
They have yet to appear as volume main stream items.
However Fuel Oil or Avtur IS injected direct into Compression Ignition
Engine combustion chambers (or in some cases 'pre-chambers').........
yer regular Diesel Engines.
Petrol or Gasoline Fuel Injection has huge performance advantages over
Carburetors, any carburetor, even the sophisticated Pressure Carb' on
the M14. A Carb' can only ever be a compromise component and fuel
metering is far from precise. Actual power/economy/emissions will
fluctuate wildly according to prevailing conditions. By contrast fuel
metering and delivery from an Injection System is almost infinitely
variable, modern automotive engines have individual metering to
individual cylinders that is variable right down to individual ignition
strokes. In M14s in particular what the 'hot' cylinder wants as compared
with the 'cold' cylinder cannot be differentiated by a carburetor. In
the rear view the Injectors have dark pink tops. I cannot be certain but
they appear to be an electronic type strangely familiar to anybody with
Bosch Automotive experience, as such they are likely to be capable to
differential injection periods, cylinder by cylinder.
I cant wait for the "noise" this post will create !
If you want proof look at the black exhaust emissions as you pull-push
the power of on any carburetor equipped aero engine and then try finding
similar on an injected engine.
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more horsepower
...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in Russia.............
the actual output is unspecified but with full fuel injection and no
accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger output...... I
bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the downside of
heavily modified competition motors.
*************************************************************************
*******
I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate me.
Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see
any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up
stream of the intake valve.
As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly into
the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly with
the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in shape
or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design, I can
understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most horsepower?
The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless rings?
No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the intake
pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it at the
carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Fuel injection gives about 8% more power. Direct injection at the the
cylinder is best but even singe point computer controlled gives more
power. Carb is a very sloppy way to use fuel. It is only passing thru
14 to 1 on the way too lean or rich. Cars with carbs tend to use more
fuel, worst emissions, harder to start, flat spots. Computer or even
mech. injection keeps the fuel closer 14 to 1. There is also better
atomization at 45 psi then sucking it out of a carb at negative or low
psi in the case of a pressure carb. The far away cylinder will be
lean and rich on the close short runner one. Carbs are painting with
a BIG brush in a hurry. Injection is a paint sprayer close to its work.
Anything that makes the engine flow more air and the fuel that comes
with it will add power.
On Mar 20, 2008, at 7:51 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pilko2@btinternet.com
> writes:
> The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more
> horsepower ...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in
> Russia............. the actual output is unspecified but with full
> fuel injection and no accessories coupled to the vastly improved
> supercharger output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as
> 50 hours are the downside of heavily modified competition motors.
>
> ********************************************************************************
>
> I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate me.
> Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
> super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not
> see any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake
> pipes up stream of the intake valve.
>
> As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly into
> the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly
> with the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
>
> Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in
> shape or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve
> design, I can understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
>
> Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most horsepower?
> The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless rings?
>
> No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the intake
> pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it at
> the carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Well said in fewer words than me !
What I was expecting was the question "Why are the exhaust ports dubbed
out in the photo ?"
I don't know the answer but the ruskies airbrushed them out of the
photos for a reason.
----- Original Message -----
From: ronald wasson
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
Fuel injection gives about 8% more power. Direct injection at the the
cylinder is best but even singe point computer controlled gives more
power. Carb is a very sloppy way to use fuel. It is only passing thru 14
to 1 on the way too lean or rich. Cars with carbs tend to use more fuel,
worst emissions, harder to start, flat spots. Computer or even mech.
injection keeps the fuel closer 14 to 1. There is also better
atomization at 45 psi then sucking it out of a carb at negative or low
psi in the case of a pressure carb. The far away cylinder will be lean
and rich on the close short runner one. Carbs are painting with a BIG
brush in a hurry. Injection is a paint sprayer close to its work.
Anything that makes the engine flow more air and the fuel that comes
with it will add power.
Message 6
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I have a good 285 for sale, 500 SMOH, intake drains, Auto Ignition, spare
exhaust plumbed for smoke system, been on oil filter since in States, Oil
analysis done every 50 hrs shows a good engine, runs strong! The only reason for
sale the engine is that I swapped over to a M14P "Rat" engine from Bill
Blackwell. The 285 has been maintained by Blackwell since in the States as well.
$6,500 plus shipping.
Scott Andrews
602-705-4413
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 7
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| Subject: | High Powered Engines |
Higher Powered Engines
As I have said before, there is only one way to measure comparative
power, and that is on properly calibrated and compensated dynamometer.
I suspect that I know more than most about the Russian High Powered
engines - indeed I have spent quite a lot of time watching 14R and M9F
engines on the test bed.
The blue engine in the picture is the fuel injected version of the M9F.
I have seen it give 465hp, and clearly it could give more. However
the system is not available for sale as yet.
The real problem is that the Russians will only use domestic equipment -
although I have supplied an Airflow fuel injection system for them to
assess - it was not as good as their full electronic fuel injection,
which one might anticipate.
Conversely, the restricted size of the carburettor, is, in itself, a
limitation as to what power can be obtained by a carburettored engine.
In terms of availability, as I have been saying for some years, now that
the stock of engines that had been lying around at Russian airfields and
factories has almost been used up, it is inevitable that the supply
becomes more restricted, and by implication prices higher.
Additionally, for those buying in the US Dollar, the simple fact is that
the US Dollar has gone from 95 cents to the Euro to $1.55 and you can be
absolutely sure that the Russians price everything today in Euro, and
not Dollars. Indeed the Dollar has depreciated rapidly against the
Russian Rouble, and so the price of anything, in Dollar terms, of this
sort must go up dramatically.
Also the price should be compared to a geared and supercharged Lycoming,
rather than to a straight IO-540.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
N
The black exhaust areas that you say are airbrushed out in the photo are actually
exhaust caps that screw on the cylinder to keep fod out.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171253#171253
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 03/19/08 |
--- Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matronics.com>
wrote:
> *
>
> =================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> =================================================
>
> Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found
> in either of the
> two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes
> the Digest formatted
> in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features
> Hyperlinked Indexes
> and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the
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> generic text editor
> such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
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>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 08-03-19&Archive=Yak
>
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http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 08-03-19&Archive=Yak
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> ===============================================
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>
----------------------------------------------------------
> Yak-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed
> 03/19/08: 25
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 07:24 AM - Sun =?ISO-8859-1?B?jG4=?= Fun
> Guide for 2008 (David McGirt)
> 2. 10:39 AM - CJ Headroom - (Hal)
> 3. 10:40 AM - Uk Bound Container (kp)
> 4. 11:05 AM - Re: Uk Bound Container (doug
> sapp)
> 5. 11:26 AM - Tools for the Yak (GreasySideUp)
> 6. 11:27 AM - Re: Rudder Pedal Mod Update 3/17
> (Barry Hancock)
> 7. 11:28 AM - Fw: OSH (cjpilot710@aol.com)
> 8. 02:29 PM - Timing the 285 HP Housai (Walt
> Murphy)
> 9. 03:22 PM - Re: CJ Headroom - (Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 10. 04:27 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 11. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 12. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 13. 04:41 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 14. 04:46 PM - Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Mark
> Schrick)
> 15. 05:03 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine
> (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
> 64E)
> 16. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (david stroud)
> 17. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det
> Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
> 18. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp
> engines please... (A. Dennis Savarese)
> 19. 05:42 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Brian
> Lloyd)
> 20. 06:18 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (david
> stroud)
> 21. 06:23 PM - Re: Timing the 285 HP Housai (A.
> Dennis Savarese)
> 22. 06:36 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Jay
> Land)
> 23. 08:47 PM - 285 timing (Joe Howse)
> 24. 09:38 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Brian
> Lloyd)
> 25. 11:44 PM - Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines
> please...RAT Engine vs Russian NEW engine (Jan
> Mevis)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 07:24:02 AM PST US
> Subject: Yak-List: Sun =?ISO-8859-1?B?jG4=?= Fun
> Guide for 2008
> From: David McGirt <david@mcgirt.net>
>
>
> Sun n Fun Guide for 2008
> by Craig Payne (cpayne@joimail.com)
>
> Sun n Fun is NOT an EAA event but works like Oshkosh
> for warbirds.
> Use the WB South arrival per notam on 119.25
> (usually) 10 miles @ 2500
> Really scary *stuff* happens in Lakeland skies.
> Check 6 often.
> Parachute packing in back of tent near WB
> registration - See Deborah.
> Bring sun screen, tiedowns, canopy cover and sturdy
> gust locks.
> Hotel 1 is new Holiday Inn, Winter Haven. $122.08
> use WB mail-in form.
> New Holiday Inn is the old Days Inn on 200 Cypress
> Gardens Blvd.
> Hotel 2 Hampton Inn, Winter Haven. $110.88 through
> WB mail-in form.
> Hotel 3 is old Holiday Inn at 1150 Third St, NW,
> Winter Haven. $86.24
> WB shuttle van runs between WB hut and hotels
> sporadically
> Use Polk Co. Pkwy (570) toll to/from airport for
> quickest way to hotels.
> The Hojo is next to Hotel 3 $80 + tx (863) 294-7321
> or favorite website
> Friday night airshow is best viewed from my hanger;
> bring beverage.
> WB Awards Banquet is at Fantasy of Flight museum on
> Saturday night
>
>
> Thank you for the info Craig
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
> _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:39:19 AM PST US
> From: Hal <yakjock@gmail.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ Headroom -
>
> In response to Mark, both head room and leg room can
> be a problem depending
> on how one's body is configured. The Malcom Hood
> canopy does great things
> for the pilot's headroom; it looks like Barry's
> pedal mod will help out with
> the leg room considerably.
>
> Just being able to lift the seat a bit or extend
> one's legs a few inches
> makes a huge difference on those 3.5 hour XC runs.
>
> For the long trips I have also installed a biker
> style foot bar on the
> forward bulkhead. That makes it much more
> comfortable than resting my feet
> on the center of the pedal beam.
>
> With an auto pilot, built in O2 and 74 gallons
> feeding the M14 with 3 bladed
> MT I can go high, long and comfortable coming over
> to visit with y'all. Of
> course John Cox in the back at 6'4" and growing has
> a different perspective
> on "long and comfortable". We're working on that.
>
> What I would like to see is a canopy mod that would
> change out the entire CJ
> canopy by making it higher and a bit wider. Not
> quite the room of a T6 but
> along those lines. The current canopy looks small
> for the plane; the Malcom
> looks fine but is generally limited to the front
> seat. If a group of guys
> wanted to pool resources to redesign the whole
> canopy and solve this height
> issue I'd participate.
>
> Batman
>
=== message truncated ==
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Message 10
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| Subject: | fuel injection (was:Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT |
Engine vs Russian NEW ...)
On Mar 20, 2008, at 5:51 AM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly into
> the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly
> with the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
One does not inject gasoline directly into the cylinder. As KP said,
that would produce detonation. One either uses multipoint fuel
injection, where there is an injector for each cylinder, usually
injecting the fuel right at the intake valve; or single-point fuel
injection, where the fuel is injected well upstream and the engine
depends on something else to ensure proper mixing of fuel and air.
(BTW, the GAMIjectors just vary the fuel flow from cylinder to
cylinder in order to match the airflow differences between cylinders
and ensure a uniform mixture in all the cylinders.)
> Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in
> shape or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve
> design, I can understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
Fuel injection does not produce more horsepower per se. But fuel
injection does give greater control over mixture thus making it
possible to ensure that all cylinders receive the same mixture and
therefore that all cylinders are producing their maximum power.
> Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most horsepower?
> The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless rings?
It depends.
>
> No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the intake
> pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it at
> the carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
The advantage of fuel injection over carburation comes from two things:
1. more uniform mixture distribution to all cylinders;
2. fewer restrictions in the induction system which leads to a higher
MAP at high flow rates (full throttle).
This is one of those topics where the forest gets lost in the trees.
We get so worked up about the details we forget the big picture. More
*power* comes from burning more fuel. Period, end-of-report. If you
can figure out how to get the engine to burn more fuel you will get
more power. The only caveat to that is you must maintain the proper
mass ratio of fuel to oxygen. You want just enough oxygen to ensure
that all the molecules of fuel get burned.
Most people think that carburetors somehow "mix" the fuel and air.
They do not. They roughly measure the flow of air based on a pressure
drop in a venturi and then spray some amount of fuel into the air
stream. Since liquid fuel and air have different densities, they do
not necessarily go to the same places within the induction system with
the same facility. This gives rise to mixture differences between the
cylinders.
As an example, imagine a bunch of skinny, fit guys and a bunch of fat
guys running a race in a twisting course. They are not going to arrive
at the same place at the same time. This is what happens with the and
(skinny guys) and the fuel (fat guys) in your induction system.
By injecting just the right amount of fuel at the inlet of each
cylinder we avoid this problem as we force the fat guys to arrive at
the same time as the skinny guys. The mixture in the cylinder is even.
But there is another way. That way is to run the skinny guys and fat
guys through a blender right at the start of the race. That is what we
do with our radial engines with superchargers. The blower serves to
mix the fuel and air uniformly as well as help turn the fuel from
liquid to vapor. (Liquid fuel will not burn. It must be turned to
vapor first.) This ensures that the fuel:air mix that reaches the
cylinders is a uniform mixture. This eliminates the need for
individual injection of fuel at each cylinder.
So multipoint fuel injection is just a way to deal with the differing
density of liquid fuel and air. If you can mix the proper ratio of
fuel and air and then ensure that the liquid fuel vaporizes, you don't
need the advantages of multipoint fuel injection. Single-point fuel
injection upstream of the supercharger is just fine in that case.
Oh, and a pressure carburetor is nothing more than a single-point fuel
injection system. It measures mass airflow and then admits the proper
amount of liquid fuel. If one cares to look, one will find that there
is almost no difference between a Bendix (Lycoming) or Airflow
Performance fuel servo and a pressure carburetor. The only major
difference is that the pressure carb has it output in a spray bar
immediately following the servo (downstream of the throttle valve)
while the other system send the fuel to a flow divider and then on
down to an injector at each cylinder.
Now as for the other stuff, here is the skinny.
High compression:
Increasing the compression ratio improves efficiency up to a point.
The problem is how to prevent detonation in engines using gasoline as
a fuel. We accomplish that by using fuels that have a greater
detonation margin (measured in octane). In any gasoline-powered engine
you want the compression to be as high as possible without detonation.
Less than that and you are losing efficiency.
(It might be interesting to note that diesel engines use really high
compressions as they are intended to operate in this detonation
region. This is one of the reasons that they are so much more
efficient than gasoline engines.)
Rings:
We want to seal the cylinder to keep our compressed burning mixture in
the cylinder. The closer we can get the rings to the top of the
piston, the less volume in the combustion chamber and the higher we
can maintain the compression ratio. We also keep the hot burning gases
above the piston where their pressure can produce power. Rings will a
smaller area will have less friction with the cylinder wall. Rings
will a smaller gap will leak less gas.
Supercharging:
Supercharging, either through the use of a compressor stage
mechanically powered by the engine, or by a compressor stage powered
by an exhaust-gas turbine (turbo-charging), greatly improves
efficiency and power.
First, the supercharger crams more fuel/air mix into the cylinder.
More fuel/air means more power. Period. Second, it is easier to get a
gas to flow in a pipe by blowing on one end than by sucking on the
other. The supercharger does a much better job of getting fuel/air
mixture into the cylinder than the piston does during its intake
cycle. In addition to aiding the fuel/air mixture get to the cylinder,
the mechanics of doing the compression aid in converting the fuel from
liquid to vapor and also aid in mixing the resulting fuel vapor with
the air.
Supercharging covers a multitude of ills.
Valve size, valve timing, and head design:
Our fuel/air mix has mass. That means it requires force to start it
moving and force to stop it again. (Good ol' Newton's second law.)
Since we want lots of fuel and air in our cylinder we want to get the
combustion mixture moving as fast as possible and then have a lot of
it moving. We want the valve to be big enough to not restrict the
flow, hence we like bigger valves where possible. In addition, we want
no restriction to the flow so we want the pathway to have as little
aerodynamic drag as possible. This is what "flowing the heads" does --
reduces aerodynamic drag so the fuel/air mix can move as quickly as
possible into the cylinder.
There is an extra benefit from getting the flow as fast as possible;
the momentum of the fuel/air mix helps cram more fuel/air into the
cylinder. It takes more force to stop the flow of something that is
moving faster. (If you don't believe me, run out in front of your car
and try to stop it when it is going 2mph and then again when it is
going 20mph.)
Remember, it takes a fixed amount of time to fill up the volume of the
cylinder with fuel/air mix. Also remember that, as RPM increases,
there is less time to fill up the cylinder. This is why engines tend
to lose efficiency at higher RPMs. OTOH, the faster you turn the
engine, the more total fuel/air mix you can burn in the engine. (More
bangs per second.) The trick here is to somehow keep the flow of fuel/
air up and keep the cylinder filled. To help with this we mess with
valve timing. This is where you start to talk about high-lift and long-
duration camshafts. The high-lift cam causes the valve to open wider
and provide less resistance to gas flow. Long-duration allows the
intake valve to stay open longer to allow the mass of the gas flow
(fuel/air mixture) to cram more gas into the cylinder even though the
compression stroke has begun.
So we can go on and on here but it all boils down to that one thing I
mentioned at the beginning: cram more fuel/air mix into the combustion
chamber where it can burn and produce power.
And no, I am not going to get into ignition timing. I'll save that for
later.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
>
>
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fuel injection (was:Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT |
Engine vs Russian NEW ...)
> One does not inject gasoline directly into the cylinder. As KP said,
> that would produce detonation. One either uses multipoint fuel
> injection, where there is an injector for each cylinder, usually
> injecting the fuel right at the intake valve; or single-point fuel
> injection, where the fuel is injected well upstream and the engine
> depends on something else to ensure proper mixing of fuel and air.
Not trying to nitpick but if I'm not mistaken, they do inject directly
into the cylinders on some 2-strokes. I believe Mercury and Aprilia
both have systems for this.
Wes
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
On Mar 20, 2008, at 6:56 AM, ronald wasson wrote:
> Fuel injection gives about 8% more power.
I hate to jump on your Ronald but I must as people might get the wrong
impression from your statement.
It is certainly possible that switching from a carburetor to a fuel
injection system will result in the engine producing more power but it
is impossible to give a fixed number for how much the improvement will
be (if any). But I agree that there will likely be some increase.
That being said, the increase does not come from fuel injection
itself. There is nothing magical about fuel injection that makes it
provide more power. More power comes ONLY from getting more fuel/air
mixture into the cylinder. There are two reasons why fuel injection
might make this happen:
1. The throttle valve, fuel servo (mass airflow sensor), and other
devices placed in the induction path provide less resistance to
airflow than the venturi in the carburetor so more air can reach the
cylinder. That allows us to inject more fuel and hence get more air
and fuel into the cylinder.
2. Better matching of fuel to air at each cylinder ensures that all
cylinders are running at the optimum (stoichiometric) mixture to allow
all the cylinders to produce maximum power.
FWIW you can do this with carburation if you are so inclined to go to
the effort but injection is a lot easier.
> Direct injection at the the cylinder is best
Not necessarily. Injection upstream of a blower is better than
injection at the intake to the cylinder as it allows for total fuel
vaporization.
> but even singe point computer controlled gives more power.
No, computer controlled single point injection provides better mixture
control. That *might* result in more power but there is no guarantee.
> Carb is a very sloppy way to use fuel. It is only passing thru 14 to
> 1 on the way too lean or rich. Cars with carbs tend to use more
> fuel, worst emissions, harder to start, flat spots.
You are right for cars as one is always changing the throttle. This is
less of an issue for engines where the throttle spends a lot of time
in one position. In that case the shape of the induction system will
have far more effect on mixture distribution.
> Computer or even mech. injection keeps the fuel closer 14 to 1.
Well, it does depend on the carburetor. You would be amazed at just
how efficient a properly adjusted weber carburetor can be. The only
hassle with them is having to change all the jets and emulsion tubes
every place you go. Still, they work VERY well at providing a proper
mixture to each cylinder.
(When I was racing sports cars many years ago I got really good at
tuning weber carbs.)
> There is also better atomization at 45 psi then sucking it out of a
> carb at negative or low psi in the case of a pressure carb. The far
> away cylinder will be lean and rich on the close short runner one.
> Carbs are painting with a BIG brush in a hurry. Injection is a paint
> sprayer close to its work.
> Anything that makes the engine flow more air and the fuel that
> comes with it will add power.
And THAT is the real bottom line.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please... |
You're right. I was waiting for someone to jump on me about the 302 and no one
suckered in on that one!
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 20:35
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
--> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
You left out one of the mouse motors Mark.....the predecessor to the 283 and its
successors, the 265. The 1st Chevy OHV V8 engine was a 265 Cu. In.
engine, introduced in 1955 Chevy. Physically looks identical to the 283.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> RAT motors are considered to be any of the Big Block Chevy engines
> starting... As I remember it... With the 409, then the 396, 427, 454, 502,
> etc. The small block engines are called "Mouse Motors", and include the
> 283, 302, 307, 327, 350, 400.
>
> The term RAT MOTOR came from the drag racer who first became famous for
> running them, which I THINK might have been Grumpy Jenkins, but I am not
> positive about just who it was. In any case, his car had a name that had
> "Rat" in it... I want to say "The Rat". There was a big picture on the
> side of the race car showing this huge rat reaching up and grabbing the
> shifter. This started the whole thing about big blocks being called "Rat
> Motors".
>
> I run a 605HP 502 CU Rat in my 68 Camaro.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 22:14
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
>
>
>> > Sounds like a cage and a wheel are involved.
>>
>> F'in big rat!
>>
>> Did you know rats can't vomit?
>
> Considering what they eat, that is probably to ensure they keep their
> lunch down.
>
> And I am still interested in a "rat motor".
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Oh... Sorry, misunderstood you Brian.
What I saw for the M-14 was basically a top end kit. It cost about $14,000 and
consisted of 10 of everything (one being a spare). Higher compression forged
aluminum pistons. Gapless rings. New valves and valve guides with "O" ring
seals on the guides, new guides, ported and polished ramps on intake and exhaust
ports.
When put on a fresh M-14PF, if you even BREATHED on the prop, it would start.
In fact, it did... Unexpectedly, but that is another story.
The guys who put this thing together are also experimenting with fuel injection
and who knows what else. If you are serious, I'd suggest contacting Tom Johnson.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 20:37
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian
NEW engine
On Mar 19, 2008, at 4:44 PM, Mark Schrick wrote:
> By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are designed and
> made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would trust
> thier Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money NASCAR
> has compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
>
Mark: a dyno is a dyno. It measures torque at various RPMs. It doesn't matter who
makes it and it doesn't matter if it is used to measure output of an M14P or
a big-block chevy.
> The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have the
> money to design a higher HP engine.
But that doesn't have anything to do with measuring the HP output.
Also, I didn't know you were working for the Russians and could speak to their
various companies and development teams.
> Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
No, that is your cold, hard opinion.
> You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power, By the
> RAT Engine..
And I am *still* waiting for someone to tell me what the RAT engine is. Could someone
who KNOWS please reply to me with FACTS! I am
*serious* about buying another engine and I want to know if there are other options
besides the obvious.
(Gawd, this is like pulling teeth!)
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 15
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Good information KP!
Only one problem. As I said, I sat there and watched a stock restored
426 Hemi turn 830 HP right in front of my eyes on national television.
You can say "bull" all day long, and I would not blame you because it
shocked the nonsense out of me as well, but you can disbelieve it all
you want and call them all liars if you want to. I saw it and I really
do not think they changed all those figures and broadcast them on TV
just to favor the Hemi.
They also ran a 427 Ford, and a horde of other engines. The Chevy 409
ran 408 horsepower, and as you will remember, that was no great shakes
of a race motor. The LS-6 ran well over 500 HP close to 600 as I
remember.
My 502 runs 605 HP on a single 4 barrel on UNLEADED 93 octane pump gas
and a dual plane manifold with just under 10:1 compression ratio. I
have the dyno sheets to prove it and a video of it when it ran on the
dyno. Now consider a 426 Hemi with 12 or 13 to 1 compression, dual 4
barrels on a cross ram manifold, headers, wild lift cam and racing fuel.
Not over 426 horsepower? Uh... Sorry... Of course it can.
Chevy ADVERTISED 375 HP out of a 327 small block albeit fuel injected
with a primitive mechanical unit. The Hemi could be had with pistons up
around 12.5 to 1 easily special order from Mopor and an amazingly high
lift cam solid lifter cam. Remember HP measurements are made at the
crank, with no accessories loading down the engine.
I'll try to find the actual show for you. I suspect it can be had on
the Internet.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kp
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:37
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW engine
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more horsepower ......
check out the photos taken a few years ago in Russia............. the
actual output is unspecified but with full fuel injection and no
accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger output...... I
bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the downside of
heavily modified competition motors.
************************************************************************
********
Incidentally the 'Rat Motor' label is only correctly used to describe
the Big Block Chevy series as identified on the list by others. Also, as
good as the 426 Hemi from Mopar was it was incapable of producing better
than one horsepower per cubic inch in stock form...... even when
blueprinted. In Hot Rod circles the big displacement Chryslers were
"Elephant" motors
The references to Grumpy Jenkins is pretty accurate and I think the
legendry T shirt cartoonist Ed Roth was involved with the plagiarism of
his "Rat Fink" logo.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW engine
The Russians do have new engines: the M14R and the M9F give 450
HP or more. And it seems that they can also beef up these engines much
higher when necessary. The Russian team in Spain last year at the World
Aerobatics championships had a Sukhoi 26 M3 (Svetlana Kapanina flew it)
with an engine that was close to 500 HP (this is an uncontrolled
statement, but it was a standard M9F that had been modified).
Saying that they do not have the money to design a higher HP
engine is also untrue. Due to their oil wealth, it seems that they can
do what they want, IF they want to do it. For instance, the brand new
Yak 18T's with modern avionics and NEW engines (for very high prices
unfortunately).
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: donderdag 20 maart 2008 0:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are
designed and made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would
trust thier Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money
NASCAR has compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have
the money to design a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power,
By the RAT Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not
now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure
power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years
with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll
get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped
heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on
that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does
indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made
by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the
process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say
7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports
on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every
case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question
is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a
properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
<tomjohnson@cox.net>
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding
450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event
however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
<http://www.matronicss/>
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I have been considering extra fuel capacity. What have been the positive
/ negative experiences with fuel tank
modifications such as welding a section to an existing tank- replacing
the tank with a bladder - or adding a separate
Aux tank? I am looking to get +/- 12 gallons more capacity in my CJ.
Doug Zeissner
email: doug.zeissner@rdmd.ocgov.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Pappy, there are a lot of advantages to fuel injection, the most
important gain being the improvement in equal mixture control to all
cylinders. Very few engines inject the fuel directly into the cylinder
chamber itself, but instead inject it right above the intake valve with
holes drilled into the intake manifold, so in truth, what they are doing
with the M-14 in this regard is close to what they are doing in your car
outside. There are also some examples where one "injector" is used and
is placed directly in what normally would be called the carburetor, and
examples of that form are available for the M-14 as well.
Remember that in the carb, the fuel is sucked into the airstream at the
venturi(s). This fuel mixes with the air in what you hope is the right
combination. But as it enters the intake manifold, it will be sucked
down into certain cylinders first with a shorter distance to travel than
others. Air turbulence, temperature changes in the plenum's, porosity,
and a whole horde of other issues end up with the situation that each
cylinder ends up getting a slightly different mixture.
In racing engines using carbs, extreme pains are taken to try to
eliminate this problem. There are many many ways that have been
invented to attack this issue from Dual plane manifolds, to single
plane, to tunnel rams, to cross rams, etc. Each different version has
trade-offs that impact the exact fuel ratios changing when you
transition from idle to wide open throttle. Everything ends up being a
trade-off.
With port fuel injection, if the design is done well, you improve the
exact fuel radio BALANCE to each and every cylinder and allow them ALL
to perform at equally (hopefully high) power levels.
In an airplane engine remember that as you lean, you want to lean to the
MOST LEAN cylinder. If you fail to do that and run one cylinder overly
lean... You know what happens. Same thing in ANY other engine. You
have to find the most lean cylinder to lean to... And that means not all
cylinders are getting the exact same amount of fuel, which means they
are not running equally OR evenly. Add fuel injection. Now you can
inject the exact amount of fuel you need. Add a computer and you can
now adjust it on the fly. Add a oxygen sensor (allow with a few others)
and you can have a system that REACTS to changing conditions
automatically. This is called a closed loop system and it is why we can
now hop in a car and start it on a dead cold day and never have to mess
around with chokes anymore.
So port fuel injection really just allows each cylinder to generate the
maximum power it is capable of, which you are always TRYING to reach
with a carb and any kind of manifold design.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:52
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more
horsepower ...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in
Russia............. the actual output is unspecified but with full fuel
injection and no accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger
output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the
downside of heavily modified competition motors.
************************************************************************
********
I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate me.
Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see
any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up
stream of the intake valve.
As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly into the
cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly with the
'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in shape or
rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design, I can
understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most horsepower? The
domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless rings?
No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the intake pipe
produces more power and is any different than injecting it at the carb
and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Fuel injection on most horizontally opposed aircraft engines are
directly injected into the cylinder.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kp
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:51
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
Because injection of highly volatile Avgas direct into a hot combustion
chamber would create uncontrollable detonation. Petrol Fuel Injectors
are always in the inlet tract and not the cylinder. There are a tiny
number of GDI (gasoline direct injection) exceptions to that rule but
these are not high performance designs, they are only targeting low
emissions.
They have yet to appear as volume main stream items.
However Fuel Oil or Avtur IS injected direct into Compression Ignition
Engine combustion chambers (or in some cases 'pre-chambers').........
yer regular Diesel Engines.
Petrol or Gasoline Fuel Injection has huge performance advantages over
Carburetors, any carburetor, even the sophisticated Pressure Carb' on
the M14. A Carb' can only ever be a compromise component and fuel
metering is far from precise. Actual power/economy/emissions will
fluctuate wildly according to prevailing conditions. By contrast fuel
metering and delivery from an Injection System is almost infinitely
variable, modern automotive engines have individual metering to
individual cylinders that is variable right down to individual ignition
strokes. In M14s in particular what the 'hot' cylinder wants as compared
with the 'cold' cylinder cannot be differentiated by a carburetor. In
the rear view the Injectors have dark pink tops. I cannot be certain but
they appear to be an electronic type strangely familiar to anybody with
Bosch Automotive experience, as such they are likely to be capable to
differential injection periods, cylinder by cylinder.
I cant wait for the "noise" this post will create !
If you want proof look at the black exhaust emissions as you pull-push
the power of on any carburetor equipped aero engine and then try finding
similar on an injected engine.
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW ...
In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more
horsepower ...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in
Russia............. the actual output is unspecified but with full fuel
injection and no accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger
output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the
downside of heavily modified competition motors.
************************************************************************
********
I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate
me. Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see
any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up
stream of the intake valve.
As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly
into the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly
with the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in
shape or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design,
I can understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most
horsepower? The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless
rings?
No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the
intake pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it
at the carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 19
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
BULLSHIT ALERT! I can't believe I said what I just said.
RETRACTION! RETRACTION!
<Mark Bitterlich>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 17:19
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Fuel injection on most horizontally opposed aircraft engines are
directly injected into the cylinder.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kp
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:51
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW ...
Because injection of highly volatile Avgas direct into a hot combustion
chamber would create uncontrollable detonation. Petrol Fuel Injectors
are always in the inlet tract and not the cylinder. There are a tiny
number of GDI (gasoline direct injection) exceptions to that rule but
these are not high performance designs, they are only targeting low
emissions.
They have yet to appear as volume main stream items.
However Fuel Oil or Avtur IS injected direct into Compression Ignition
Engine combustion chambers (or in some cases 'pre-chambers').........
yer regular Diesel Engines.
Petrol or Gasoline Fuel Injection has huge performance advantages over
Carburetors, any carburetor, even the sophisticated Pressure Carb' on
the M14. A Carb' can only ever be a compromise component and fuel
metering is far from precise. Actual power/economy/emissions will
fluctuate wildly according to prevailing conditions. By contrast fuel
metering and delivery from an Injection System is almost infinitely
variable, modern automotive engines have individual metering to
individual cylinders that is variable right down to individual ignition
strokes. In M14s in particular what the 'hot' cylinder wants as compared
with the 'cold' cylinder cannot be differentiated by a carburetor. In
the rear view the Injectors have dark pink tops. I cannot be certain but
they appear to be an electronic type strangely familiar to anybody with
Bosch Automotive experience, as such they are likely to be capable to
differential injection periods, cylinder by cylinder.
I cant wait for the "noise" this post will create !
If you want proof look at the black exhaust emissions as you pull-push
the power of on any carburetor equipped aero engine and then try finding
similar on an injected engine.
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW ...
In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more
horsepower ...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in
Russia............. the actual output is unspecified but with full fuel
injection and no accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger
output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the
downside of heavily modified competition motors.
************************************************************************
********
I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate
me. Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see
any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up
stream of the intake valve.
As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly
into the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly
with the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in
shape or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design,
I can understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most
horsepower? The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless
rings?
No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the
intake pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it
at the carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
hom00030000000001> .
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 20
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| Subject: | Radial Friendly airports between Phoenix and Jersey |
I'm picking up my Yak on Wednesday and am starting to plan the long trip home.
I'm looking for a few airports along the way to pick up oil and that could offer
help just in case....
I'm running Phillips 25/60 oil
Any places that are friendly or hostile towards yaks?
I flew the 52 the other day with the fellas up at the Flying W, what a fantastic
time this bird is going to be!!
Thanks,
Josh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171334#171334
Message 21
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| Subject: | Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW engine
Go here. Look at these engines. Check out the compression ratios they
are using to get the numbers.
Now take these same engines, go with a much wilder mechanical cam, and
bump the compression ratio up to 13 to 1 and add racing fuel, and do
some mental arithmitic on what is possible then.
http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/blocks.html#newhemi
Mgb
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kp
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:37
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
vs Russian NEW engine
The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more horsepower ......
check out the photos taken a few years ago in Russia............. the
actual output is unspecified but with full fuel injection and no
accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger output...... I
bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the downside of
heavily modified competition motors.
************************************************************************
********
Incidentally the 'Rat Motor' label is only correctly used to describe
the Big Block Chevy series as identified on the list by others. Also, as
good as the 426 Hemi from Mopar was it was incapable of producing better
than one horsepower per cubic inch in stock form...... even when
blueprinted. In Hot Rod circles the big displacement Chryslers were
"Elephant" motors
The references to Grumpy Jenkins is pretty accurate and I think the
legendry T shirt cartoonist Ed Roth was involved with the plagiarism of
his "Rat Fink" logo.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW engine
The Russians do have new engines: the M14R and the M9F give 450
HP or more. And it seems that they can also beef up these engines much
higher when necessary. The Russian team in Spain last year at the World
Aerobatics championships had a Sukhoi 26 M3 (Svetlana Kapanina flew it)
with an engine that was close to 500 HP (this is an uncontrolled
statement, but it was a standard M9F that had been modified).
Saying that they do not have the money to design a higher HP
engine is also untrue. Due to their oil wealth, it seems that they can
do what they want, IF they want to do it. For instance, the brand new
Yak 18T's with modern avionics and NEW engines (for very high prices
unfortunately).
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Sent: donderdag 20 maart 2008 0:44
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
Engine vs Russian NEW engine
By the way....The "RAT MOTOR" cyclinders and pistons are
designed and made by the same guys that make the NASCAR engines. I would
trust thier Dyno over anything the Russians have. Think of the money
NASCAR has compared to the dying Russian motor producers.
The Russians make a great and reliable engine. They do not have
the money to design a higher HP engine.
Sorry but that is the cold hard facts...........
You want reliability buy Russian....You want more Horse power,
By the RAT Engine..
SHREK
----- Original Message ----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:24:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I don't normally disagree with you Richard, and in fact I am not
now!
You're absolutely correct, there is only one way to measure
power and to
even begin to state an actual horsepower number. However, being
Americans we have been making that mistake for years and years
with
questions like: "Gee, how much more horsepower do you think I'll
get
with that nice set of headers, or intake manifold, or prepped
heads,
etc., etc". The use of the term "Rat Motor" is an emphasis on
that
basis of measurement which is anything but accurate, but does
indeed
point to Americans desire and ability to "soup up" engines made
by
anyone for anything and to be very very successful in the
process.
That said, when you raise the compression on a motor from say
7:1 to
8:1, use gapless rings that reduce blow-by, clean up the ports
on the
heads, etc., you simply ARE going to end up with an increase in
horsepower. Actual dynamometer tests have shown this in every
case on
most every engine in the world including radials. The question
is: "By
how much".
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Goode
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 13:28
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
There is only one way to measure power and that is with a
properly
calibrated and compensated dynonometer!!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: tjyak50 <mailto:tomjohnson@cox.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 4:15 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...
<tomjohnson@cox.net>
Drew:
The Deer Valley Modified M14 "Rat" motors are exceeding
450hp*
with all the mods.
* This claim is based on empirical dyno data and also
comparative observation by independent third party pilots (with
substantial experience) in "Advanced Close Maneuvering".
I have about 40 hours on my "Rat" motor and the results are
shocking.
It ain't cheap, but it is a much more efficient motor.
Didn't see any metal 3 blades at the last Phoenix event
however.
TJ
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=170397#170397
igator re, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicss
<http://www.matronicss/>
p; he Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
">http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
Mark;
The phenomenon is called a brain fart. Being somewhat familiar with them (
they may have something to do with age) I have resolved to proof read
emails. But then sometimes I forget which may also have something to do with
age. Oh well.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs
Russian NEW ...
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> BULLSHIT ALERT! I can't believe I said what I just said.
>
> RETRACTION! RETRACTION!
>
> <Mark Bitterlich>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
> Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 17:19
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
> vs Russian NEW ...
>
> --> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Fuel injection on most horizontally opposed aircraft engines are
> directly injected into the cylinder.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kp
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:51
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine
> vs Russian NEW ...
>
> Because injection of highly volatile Avgas direct into a hot combustion
> chamber would create uncontrollable detonation. Petrol Fuel Injectors
> are always in the inlet tract and not the cylinder. There are a tiny
> number of GDI (gasoline direct injection) exceptions to that rule but
> these are not high performance designs, they are only targeting low
> emissions.
> They have yet to appear as volume main stream items.
>
> However Fuel Oil or Avtur IS injected direct into Compression Ignition
> Engine combustion chambers (or in some cases 'pre-chambers').........
> yer regular Diesel Engines.
>
> Petrol or Gasoline Fuel Injection has huge performance advantages over
> Carburetors, any carburetor, even the sophisticated Pressure Carb' on
> the M14. A Carb' can only ever be a compromise component and fuel
> metering is far from precise. Actual power/economy/emissions will
> fluctuate wildly according to prevailing conditions. By contrast fuel
> metering and delivery from an Injection System is almost infinitely
> variable, modern automotive engines have individual metering to
> individual cylinders that is variable right down to individual ignition
> strokes. In M14s in particular what the 'hot' cylinder wants as compared
> with the 'cold' cylinder cannot be differentiated by a carburetor. In
> the rear view the Injectors have dark pink tops. I cannot be certain but
> they appear to be an electronic type strangely familiar to anybody with
> Bosch Automotive experience, as such they are likely to be capable to
> differential injection periods, cylinder by cylinder.
>
> I cant wait for the "noise" this post will create !
>
> If you want proof look at the black exhaust emissions as you pull-push
> the power of on any carburetor equipped aero engine and then try finding
> similar on an injected engine.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT
> Engine vs Russian NEW ...
>
>
> In a message dated 3/20/2008 6:43:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> pilko2@btinternet.com writes:
>
>
> The Russians are certainly capable of teasing out more
> horsepower ...... check out the photos taken a few years ago in
> Russia............. the actual output is unspecified but with full fuel
> injection and no accessories coupled to the vastly improved supercharger
> output...... I bet it rocks ! TBO times of as little as 50 hours are the
> downside of heavily modified competition motors.
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> ********
>
>
> I don't claim to be a motor expert so some one please elucidate
> me. Looking at the photos, I can see and understand the up grade of the
> super charger. However in looking at the "fuel injection" I can not see
> any advantage. The fuel is merely "injected" into the intake pipes up
> stream of the intake valve.
>
> As I understand "fuel injection" the fuel is injected directly
> into the cylinder. Here I understand the advantage, and particularly
> with the 'gami' (sp?) injectors that horizontal opposed engines use.
>
> Where does the extra power come from? Super charger changes in
> shape or rotation speed, gapless rings, domed pistons, and valve design,
> I can understand but I just don't see the advantage here.
>
> Of the different "changes" which one delivers the most
> horsepower? The domed piston over the supercharger or just gapless
> rings?
>
> No one has ever explained to me why injecting fuel into the
> intake pipe produces more power and is any different than injecting it
> at the carb and my limited cranial volume can't seem to comprehend it.
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home
> <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aol
> hom00030000000001> .
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW...
This may have been mentioned here already.
Seeing this subject of more power from M14 engines grind along, Barrett
Performance Engines in Tulsa has purchased a huge amount of tooling, parts, etc.
over the past couple of years and has a development program on the M14 which
is to range from dyno tested stock overhauls, to improved engines and on to
pretty hot bigger power engines just as they have done for Lycomings. We have
5
on order from them for airplanes we are building. BPE will have a booth at
SNF in a couple of weeks E-036, I think. Stop by and chat with them about
what is coming very soon.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball,
VP Engineering
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849, 5354 Cemetery Rd.
Zellwood, FL 32798
407-889-3451 phone
407-889-7168 fax
_www.jimkimballenterprises.com_ (http://www.jimkimballenterprises.com/)
_www.pittsmodel12.com_ (http://www.pittsmodel12.com/)
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Re: Doug, anyone, 400hp engines please...RAT Engine vs Russian |
NEW ...
On Mar 20, 2008, at 2:19 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Fuel injection on most horizontally opposed aircraft engines are
> directly injected into the cylinder.
No. They inject at the intake port, right onto the intake valve
itself. They do not inject into the cylinder proper.
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Radial Friendly airports between Phoenix and Jersey |
Stop by krqo in el reno, ok. i have a 50 gal drum
GreasySideUp <greasysideup@hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm picking up my Yak on Wednesday and am starting to plan the long trip home.
I'm looking for a few airports along the way to pick up oil and that could offer
help just in case....
I'm running Phillips 25/60 oil
Any places that are friendly or hostile towards yaks?
I flew the 52 the other day with the fellas up at the Flying W, what a fantastic
time this bird is going to be!!
Thanks,
Josh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171334#171334
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Message 26
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| Subject: | While Youre at Leeward During S&F |
For the pilot who wants the ultimate in FLY IN living. Please make an
appointment to view my home @ Leeward Air Ranch during the Sun and Fun
Warbird fly in.
I've put it up for sale, and will be shown by appointment only. Basics
are 3100 SQ ft, 3 BR, 3.5 baths, killer gourmet kitchen, pool, 60x72
A/C'd hangar with access to 2 taxi ways from each end (only home @
leeward) and 12x24 workshop, with full bath. Will get great deal on CJ
with sale :)
Ernie
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| Subject: | Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? |
Just curious who was out today. They followed us to the field and I heard them
call for an overhead.
We were in the G200 (N718QS)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171389#171389
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| Subject: | Re: Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? |
Well I flew today, and I did a really big loop, but I dont really
think I over flew your field...But sorry if I did :)
Ernie
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:48 PM, Tim Gagnon <NiftyYak50@fuse.net> wrote:
>
> Just curious who was out today. They followed us to the field and I heard them
call for an overhead.
>
> We were in the G200 (N718QS)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=171389#171389
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Who was in the Blue and yellow Yak at Palomar today? |
Must have been Darrell "Condor" Gary, RPA President. He's based there.
...Blitz
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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| Subject: | Good Strong 285 for Sale |
I have a good 285 for sale, 500 SMOH, intake drains, Auto Ignition, spare
exhaust plumbed for smoke system, been on oil filter since in States, Oil
analysis done every 50 hrs shows a good engine, runs strong! The only reason
for
putting the engine up for sale is that I swapped over to a M14P "Rat" engine
from Bill
Blackwell. The 285 has been maintained by Blackwell since in the States as
well.
$6,500 plus shipping.
Scott Andrews
602-705-4413
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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