Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:43 AM - Re: CJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux Fuel (Forrest Johnson)
2. 09:13 AM - Re: CJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux Fuel (Brian Lloyd)
3. 09:23 AM - gear collapse, no uplocks? (Elmar Hegenauer)
4. 03:52 PM - V530 spinner (doug sapp)
5. 04:12 PM - Re: V530 spinner (Dee Conger)
6. 04:13 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (jon blake)
7. 04:21 PM - Re: V530 spinner (doug sapp)
8. 04:44 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 07:22 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (Walter Lannon)
10. 08:21 PM - Re: V530 spinner (Larry)
11. 08:32 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (ByronMFox@aol.com)
12. 09:23 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux Fuel |
Do you have the tanks from Gill and Blackwell? If so the vent inlet has
one way check valve in it to maintain a very small constant pressure
created by ram air thru the vent system. I installed the tanks in my CJ
3 four years ago with no problems.I reviewed the vent system verry
carefully an made some mod to the recomended procedures. I did not like
the manual valve suggestion and the mod I made eliminated the need for
the valves. Call me if you want to discuss. Cell 817 366 3150.
The CJ ( N39YK) these tanks are in is now for sale.
----- Original Message -----
From: V. Walker
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux Fuel
Ooooh, I've missed you guys. LOL
Thanks Brian, Walt, Pappy etc. for the wisdom on uneven fuel flow and
bladder tanks. (Thanks also to Linedawg who emailed. He misses his
Chang). Walt, I did have my mechs take the fuel system apart looking
for plugs and have just started flying it again since I got it back from
the annual. I won't see the fuel levels until the gauges reach 60
litres, but so far no more "sucking" sounds when I open the fuel caps.
We'll see. I think that since I had the extra capacity bladder tanks
installed the fuel imbalance seems greater because by the time the level
reaches the fuel indicators, the imbalance actually IS exacerbated. I
can't tell you how much fun I've been having with this extrordinary
airplane. As to Dennis Savarese, I spent several days freezing in my
hanger here in SLC while he was good enough to help me through his M14P
engine course a year ago. I'd thump my chest and snarl on his behalf
too, but my testosterone levels are a bit low today. All I can say is
that I'm sorry for this Marines misplaced hostility on his friends
behalf, but he needs to recognize, as previously stated, that Dennis is
not the enemy. Worst case scenario, he was a victim and caught in the
middle as well. If anyone would agonize over middle-manning a deal gone
bad for a customer, it would be "Da Godfather of the M14P". To Semper
Fi", read Sun Tsu's Art of War. You should be ashamed of yourself. I'd
bet my Black Belt on it (and you don't want your butt kicked by a girl).
Valkyrie
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux FuelCJ Aux Fuel |
On Mar 31, 2008, at 8:25 AM, Forrest Johnson wrote:
> Do you have the tanks from Gill and Blackwell? If so the vent inlet
> has one way check valve in it to maintain a very small constant
> pressure created by ram air thru the vent system.
Is there a reason for that? Seems to me that the system is under
pressure when the aircraft is flying due to pickup of high pressure on
the belly. Did they mention a reason for wanting to trap higher-
pressure in the fuel system when the aircraft isn't flying? I am
always wary of check valves as they have an annoying habit of
occasionally sticking closed. This strikes me as an undesirable
characteristic in the fuel vent system. ;-)
--
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 3
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| Subject: | gear collapse, no uplocks? |
I have a thought here..................
Some of the CJs (incl. mine) have no uplocks.
The gear is solely kept in the wells by the
air pressure in the actuators, what on the other
hand puts quite some stress on the bolts, studs
and brackets, especially doing aerobatics and
pulling Gs.
When I come out of a loop, I can see the red gear
lights going out and the air pressure gauge needle
climbing up until the pressure relief valve kicks in.
cheers
Elmar
Message 4
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Anyone out there have a Yak 18T type (big) fiberglass spinner for a V530
which is surplus to their needs please give me a call @ 509-826-4610.
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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Hi Doug - I might have one for you - what price are you looking for?
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:45 PM
Subject: Yak-List: V530 spinner
Anyone out there have a Yak 18T type (big) fiberglass spinner for a V530
which is surplus to their needs please give me a call @ 509-826-4610.
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 6
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| Subject: | gear collapse, no uplocks? |
I leave my gear handle in the "UP" position during flight. I've been
told to move to neutral. Does it matter?
Respectfully,
Jon Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar
Hegenauer
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
I have a thought here..................
Some of the CJs (incl. mine) have no uplocks.
The gear is solely kept in the wells by the
air pressure in the actuators, what on the other
hand puts quite some stress on the bolts, studs
and brackets, especially doing aerobatics and
pulling Gs.
When I come out of a loop, I can see the red gear
lights going out and the air pressure gauge needle
climbing up until the pressure relief valve kicks in.
cheers
Elmar
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: V530 spinner |
Dee,
I have been paying $700 each (+ship) for them new out of Russia, that's
complete with backing plate and all hardware. Tell me about yours.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Dee Conger <dee@innoviveinc.com> wrote:
> Hi Doug ' I might have one for you ' what price are you looking for?
>
>
> *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *doug sapp
> *Sent:* Monday, March 31, 2008 3:45 PM
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Yak-List: V530 spinner
>
>
> Anyone out there have a Yak 18T type (big) fiberglass spinner for a V530
> which is surplus to their needs please give me a call @ 509-826-4610.
>
> --
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
> Phone 509-826-4610
> Fax 509-826-3644
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
FWIW Jon, depressurizing the landing gear actuators by putting the gear
handle in neutral can cause the gear to slam when placing the gear
handle into the down position. The reason being; you are depressurizing
the actuators. With no pressure in the actuators, there is no "shock
absorption" from the air escaping in the actuator when the gear handle
is placed in neutral. As the air pressure is applied to one side of the
actuator, the other side is depressurizing. Thus, the shock absorption.
With no uplocks and the gear handle in neutral, the gear will have the
opportunity move freely with g-loads.
The only way to prevent the gear from slamming after the gear handle is
put in the neutral position is to move the gear handle back to the
previous position. Then move the gear handle to the down position and
the gear will not slam down.
Test this the next time you have the airplane on jacks. Raise the
landing gear. Then put the gear handle in neutral. After the air
exhausts, put the gear handle down. The landing gear will slam into
position. Then try it with not putting the handle in neutral. ie:
leave the gear handle in the up position. Move the handle down and see
how smoothly the gear goes into the down and locked position.
One last comment. You will use more air from the main air tank when you
depressurize the actuators by moving the gear handle to neutral.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: jon blake
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
I leave my gear handle in the "UP" position during flight. I've been
told to move to neutral. Does it matter?
Respectfully,
Jon Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar
Hegenauer
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:20 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
I have a thought here..................
Some of the CJs (incl. mine) have no uplocks.
The gear is solely kept in the wells by the
air pressure in the actuators, what on the other
hand puts quite some stress on the bolts, studs
and brackets, especially doing aerobatics and
pulling Gs.
When I come out of a loop, I can see the red gear
lights going out and the air pressure gauge needle
climbing up until the pressure relief valve kicks in.
cheers
Elmar
- The Yak-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List - MATRONICS
WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
Dennis, et al;
I have no knowledge of the Yak gear procedure. The manual procedure for the CJ
specifies the lever to neutral after retraction. The first step in extending the
gear is "Gear Lever UP" for the reasons you have noted and is included on the
cockpit placards I supply.
The 50/52 and the CJ main gear are totally different and cannot be compared in
operation.
Having said all that, I expect that many CJ pilots do not use the neutral position
(including yours truly most of the time!) and there are a number of CJ's with
no uplocks so pressure on these must be maintained. Uplocks were removed for
at time by the PLAAF (though perhaps only individual bases) during the 1970's,
probably in response to uplock release failure. No one seems to know the whole
story.
Moving the gear lever to neutral with the gear UP would certainly remove all the
load from the adaptor fitting ( item that failed on Blitz's aircraft). Otherwise
that fitting will be under continuous pressure since the actuator, in the
extended position, is, by design, 3mm short of it's fully extended position.
In the DOWN position, assuming that the overcenter and the gap between the overcenter
stop faces are correctly adjusted, the adaptor is also unloaded. In this
case the actuator is fully retracted and the ball lock engaged. The proper gap
setting ensures that the ball lock is not restricted from engagement and the
adaptor fitting carries no load.
What all this seems to imply is that there is a reason for the "lever neutral"
procedure. Maybe also explains why the factory hard chrome process on this part
is apparently inadequate for a highly loaded item. The only load it would carry
is the weight of the gear during transit.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
FWIW Jon, depressurizing the landing gear actuators by putting the gear handle
in neutral can cause the gear to slam when placing the gear handle into the
down position. The reason being; you are depressurizing the actuators. With
no pressure in the actuators, there is no "shock absorption" from the air escaping
in the actuator when the gear handle is placed in neutral. As the air pressure
is applied to one side of the actuator, the other side is depressurizing.
Thus, the shock absorption. With no uplocks and the gear handle in neutral,
the gear will have the opportunity move freely with g-loads.
The only way to prevent the gear from slamming after the gear handle is put in
the neutral position is to move the gear handle back to the previous position.
Then move the gear handle to the down position and the gear will not slam
down.
Test this the next time you have the airplane on jacks. Raise the landing gear.
Then put the gear handle in neutral. After the air exhausts, put the gear
handle down. The landing gear will slam into position. Then try it with not
putting the handle in neutral. ie: leave the gear handle in the up position.
Move the handle down and see how smoothly the gear goes into the down and locked
position.
One last comment. You will use more air from the main air tank when you depressurize
the actuators by moving the gear handle to neutral.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: jon blake
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
I leave my gear handle in the "UP" position during flight. I've been told
to move to neutral. Does it matter?
Respectfully,
Jon Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar Hegenauer
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:20 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
I have a thought here..................
Some of the CJs (incl. mine) have no uplocks.
The gear is solely kept in the wells by the
air pressure in the actuators, what on the other
hand puts quite some stress on the bolts, studs
and brackets, especially doing aerobatics and
pulling Gs.
When I come out of a loop, I can see the red gear
lights going out and the air pressure gauge needle
climbing up until the pressure relief valve kicks in.
cheers
Elmar
- The Yak-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronicscom/Navigator?Yak-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronicscom/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 10
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
In a message dated 3/31/08 7:23:21 PM, wlannon@persona.ca writes:
> Moving the gear lever to neutral with the gear UP would certainly remove
> all the load from the adaptor fitting ( item that failed on Blitz's aircraft).
> Otherwise that fitting will be under continuous pressure since the actuator,
> in the extended position, is, by design, 3mm short of it's fully extended
> position.
>
Interesting observation, Walt. Because my CJ has uplocks, I routinely
placed the gear handle in the neutral after raising the gear for the first four
years I owned the plane. For the last two years, however, I've just left it in
the up position based on the recommendation of older and wiser CJ heads.
Hmmm..... ...Blitz Fox
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&
ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
In a message dated 3/31/08 7:23:21 PM, wlannon@persona.ca writes:
Moving the gear lever to neutral with the gear UP would certainly remove all
the load from the adaptor fitting ( item that failed on Blitz's aircraft). Otherwise
that fitting will be under continuous pressure since the actuator, in
the extended position, is, by design, 3mm short of it's fully extended position.
Interesting observation, Walt. Because my CJ has uplocks, I routinely placed
the gear handle in the neutral after raising the gear for the first four years
I owned the plane. For the last two years, however, I've just left it in the
up position based on the recommendation of older and wiser CJ heads. Hmmm.....
...Blitz Fox
Hmmm is right. Two years operation is not much. I know of two CJ's with no up-locks
in service for the past 12 years or so with no problem to date. I'm sure
there are many others.
Would be interesting to view the fracture surfaces, locate the origin and maybe
get some idea of progression.
Walt
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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