Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:46 AM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 08:36 AM - M-14P for sale (Budd Davisson)
4. 09:16 AM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (Walter Lannon)
5. 10:36 AM - Aloha, Aloha (ByronMFox@aol.com)
6. 12:59 PM - Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? (ByronMFox@aol.com)
7. 01:56 PM - Re: Vinyl Markings (GreasySideUp)
8. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Vinyl Markings (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 02:30 PM - Some guys will go directly to heaven! (ByronMFox@aol.com)
10. 04:09 PM - Re: Looking for Yak owners in Chicago area (PeteAbbott@aol.com)
11. 04:13 PM - Gear Collapse Note (Cpayne)
12. 04:21 PM - SNF Field Conditions (Cpayne)
13. 07:48 PM - Fuel transfer (Herb Coussons)
14. 11:04 PM - Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:05 PM - Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
Is it possible the fracture was contributed to or accelerated by the
operation of the landing gear from the neutral position due to the fact
there is no back pressure in the actuator when placing the gear in the
down position from the neutral position?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
----- Original Message -----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
In a message dated 3/31/08 7:23:21 PM, wlannon@persona.ca writes:
Moving the gear lever to neutral with the gear UP would certainly
remove all the load from the adaptor fitting ( item that failed on
Blitz's aircraft). Otherwise that fitting will be under continuous
pressure since the actuator, in the extended position, is, by design,
3mm short of it's fully extended position.
Interesting observation, Walt. Because my CJ has uplocks, I
routinely placed the gear handle in the neutral after raising the gear
for the first four years I owned the plane. For the last two years,
however, I've just left it in the up position based on the
recommendation of older and wiser CJ heads. Hmmm..... ...Blitz Fox
Hmmm is right. Two years operation is not much. I know of two CJ's
with no up-locks in service for the past 12 years or so with no problem
to date. I'm sure there are many others.
Would be interesting to view the fracture surfaces, locate the
origin and maybe get some idea of progression.
Walt
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
In a message dated 4/1/2008 12:24:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wlannon@persona.ca writes:
I've owned my 1969 CJ for some 14+ year now. It never had up locks. It had
1088 hours on it and thousands of landings. I don't if the all the parts
were original. Some 5 or 6 years ago I changed out bushings but for the
exception seals that I've changed 5 or 6 times, the rest of the parts are original
since I got it. I've put over 1,500 hours on my ship with out problems.
There is no such thing as the perfect gear system, but the CJ's is damn close
to
it, as far as I'm concern. Like Walt, it'd be interesting to look at the
fracture area.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Hmmm is right. Two years operation is not much. I know of two CJ's with no
up-locks in service for the past 12 years or so with no problem to date. I'm
sure there are many others.
Would be interesting to view the fracture surfaces, locate the origin and
maybe get some idea of progression.
Walt
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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I have a new production, 1999 Romanian M-14P for sale. It is still wrapped
as it came from the factory and has spent its entire life in the crate, in a
hangar in AZ with very low humidity. The wrapping has never even been cut.
It was equipped at the factory with US wiring harness and has a B & C mount
pad but still has the old crank flange and no dress kit. Price is $25K USD.
602-738-2045, buddairbum@cox.net.
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
Hey Pappy;
I absolutely concur with all your comments except for the last " There is no such
thing as the perfect gear system, but the CJ is damn close to it ---"
Just to stir the pot I have to say --- Yes there is and no it is not.
Getting the gear down and locked depends on having some air to blow on some goofy
little air valves that may decide not to let go anyway. If they do decide to
let go you still need air to be sure they get to "down and locked" If you run
out of puff and still have some luck left the mains may get to overcenter AND
engage the ball lock, not a hope for the nose gear.
On the other hand the perfect gear system does not need air, hydraulics (though
it has that for gear UP), electrons running around in circles, motors, brushes
etc. and all the other diabolical devices man has invented to have 3 in the
green.
The perfect gear system is from North American Aviation 60 + years ago, it's on
the Harvard/T6.
It is perfect for two reasons;
1. Moving the handle to down MECHANICALLY releases the gear.
2. GRAVITY puts it down AND locked. Hydraulic pressure catches up later.
Well maybe not exactly perfect. The early models had a tendency for the uplocks
to release on their own which was not good. Later corrected with a spring bungee
installation.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear collapse, no uplocks?
In a message dated 4/1/2008 12:24:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wlannon@persona.ca
writes:
I've owned my 1969 CJ for some 14+ year now. It never had up locks. It had
1088 hours on it and thousands of landings. I don't if the all the parts were
original. Some 5 or 6 years ago I changed out bushings but for the exception
seals that I've changed 5 or 6 times, the rest of the parts are original since
I got it. I've put over 1,500 hours on my ship with out problems. There is
no such thing as the perfect gear system, but the CJ's is damn close to it, as
far as I'm concern. Like Walt, it'd be interesting to look at the fracture area.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Hmmm is right. Two years operation is not much. I know of two CJ's with no
up-locks in service for the past 12 years or so with no problem to date. I'm
sure there are many others.
Would be interesting to view the fracture surfaces, locate the origin and maybe
get some idea of progression.
Walt
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Just got this from Hawaii RPA member Ace Ellinwood. The personal side of the
story. ...Blitz Fox
"Well, I just got back from an historic event - the arrival of the last
Aloha passenger flight. I've never seen so many employees together in
one place. The flight was greeted by a copilot's hawaiian music group
and flight attendant hula dancers, followed by an hour and a half of
hugging and kissing, renewing old friendships and acquaintances and
saying good-bye and good luck. 38 hours earlier we all had jobs and no
warning that on April Fool's day we'd be out of work.
First of all, our family's OK. I planned to retire March first, and
hung around until April first instead, so we're just back to the
original plan, except that we lost our free dental plan (we already
lost our medical) and, worst of all when you live in the middle of the
ocean, will have no free or cheap travel.
Between the interisland fare war with Mesa and high fuel costs, Aloha
has been losing money every quarter since coming out of bankruptcy.
Management and the investors let it be known they were working on a big
deal or two to merge or sell the airline, but gave no hint what they
would do if a deal didn't go through. We found out 11 days ago when
they suddenly declared bankruptcy. We thought it would be like last
time; operate under Chapter 11 in order to keep the company going while
being protected from creditors. Not so. Unfortunately, one of the two
biggest creditors is the owner (Yucaipa Investments). They haven't been
investing in their own airline, they've been loaning money to
themselves, and now they're calling in their own loans. They plan to
sell the Cargo operation, the only part of the company that has an
interested buyer, and liquidate the rest. The employees are just so
much trash to be discarded. Sad to say, but it's true. The Governor
appealed to the bankruptcy court to make Aloha fly passengers for one
more month, to help intrastate transportation (no roads, of course, and
the Super Ferry is in dry dock), help stranded passengers and help
employees start looking for work. State law requires a 60-day notice to
employees before a company shuts down. The other creditors were willing
to wait, but Yucaipa directed the shutdown and employee terminations.
The judge said he couldn't stop them, and federal bankruptcy law will
probably trump state law, so no notice or severance pay for the
employees. The head of Yucaipa, Ron Burkel, has a personal wealth of
$1.3 billion. It's unfathomable to me how he can throw his employees
out with no notice and not provide some sort of transition support for
them. Not even a loan program. Absolutely zero conscience or compassion
for fellow human beings.
Aloha has sued Mesa for unfair business practices. Hawaiian won an $80
million judgment in a similar suit, so, if Yucaipa gets the same, they
could end up making a profit on their investment. All it would cost is
a 61-year-old airline and 3500 jobs, so, to them, it costs nothing.
Although they're still operating the cargo and contract services
departments, they're shutting down the Aloha Airlines name (the name is
for sale) and terminating employees rather than retiring them. That
way, they can stop paying the medical premiums for the old retirees who
still got that, and they won't have to pay an employee or two to staff
a pass bureau to provide reduced fare travel to retirees.
Personally, I feel really fortunate to be able to clean out my locker,
walk away and go back to my original plan of collecting military
retirement, a little airline retirement and doing some part-time
flying. What choked me up tonight was looking around at all of the
married couples who both worked for Aloha. Never work where your spouse
works is a good rule, but hard to follow when you both have established
careers in a company, fall in love and get married. I saw several
couples tonight who were once DINKs (double income, no kids), and are
now zero income, two kids in private school and a big mortgage. Next
week the kids start public school, the house goes on the market and the
airline captains/check airmen head for the mainland to find work at
half pay as a copilot, or to Asia to work as a highly-paid captain 5000
miles from home and family. (Not for me, I've already had a full-time
flying job in Asia, thanks anyway.)
The one heartening thing I've seen is an abundance of positive spirit.
Unlike bigger organizations, Aloha employees have always been friendly
to each other, help each other out when needed, look at the big picture
and keep their sense of humor. An example I overheard today, "How are
you?" "I don't have cancer." (I also heard, "How are you?"
"Unemployed!" and, "What have you been up too?" "Still 5' 11", haven't
grown a bit." But those are just corny.)"
Aloha - Ace
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
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ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: gear collapse, no uplocks? |
In a message dated 3/31/08 9:24:18 PM, wlannon@persona.ca writes:
> Would be interesting to view the fracture surfaces,-locate the origin an
d
> maybe get some idea of- progression.
> Walt
>
>
My intention is to have the part analyzed by a metallurgical lab to establis
h
if posiible what happened. Obviously, I'll share the results. ...Blitz
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
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ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Re: Vinyl Markings |
Along the same lines, who are you using for putting your name on the cockpit and
what size are those letters.
Thanks,
-j
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174211#174211
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Vinyl Markings |
I think I used 2 1/2" but do not remember for sure. Will measure it this
evening when I go up to the hanger. I use/used Aviation Graphics in
Lakeland, Fl.
1-863-644-2451 is the last # I have on them.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GreasySideUp
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:53 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Vinyl Markings
Along the same lines, who are you using for putting your name on the cockpit
and what size are those letters.
Thanks,
-j
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=174211#174211
Message 9
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| Subject: | Some guys will go directly to heaven! |
This just in. Tell me the RPA doesn't have the finest folks on earth!
...Blitz
Hey Blitz,
It's Fiddler from Kansas.- Sorry to hear about your gear problem!--I
don't
know if your going to get repaired prior to OSH or not.- I'm trying to dec
ide
myself about going to OSH.- The full-time committment is going to be tou
gh for
me.- I might be able to do part of the week....if you want to do the balan
ce.-
I thought I would offer my plane if you need something to fly.- Call me at
3163718562 or email me- back if your looking for a ride.- I sure enjoyed
our
time together.- Thanks again.
Jeff Pritchard
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&
ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for Yak owners in Chicago area |
Would like to know who own and fly Yak 52 in the Chicago area.
Thanks
Pete Abbott
N852GC
**************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15&ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
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| Subject: | Gear Collapse Note |
Normally I ignore the witty and learned banter exchanges on the yak-list as they
are not all that illuminating. However, a gear collapse is serious stuff to
me. I visually checked my retraction links today and saw nothing new from the
last time I went through my gear a few years back.
This design of this component seems more than adequate for normal design loads.
That being said, manufacturing problems can occur anywhere, on any product. There
are heat treatment procedures, especially following chrome plating that may
be at fault. Maintenance problems could result from too much (or too little)
clearance when installed. Regular grease changes are advisable too.
There are operational practices. Regular Ops results in many gear cycles, taxi
stresses, and everything else that was taken in consideration by engineers. Then
there are questionable field maintenance procedures, such as removing the air
flow restrictors for "snappy" gear response. This will result in shock and
vibration for every cycle that would not normally occur. BAD JU JU! If you don't
use flow restrictors, get them. They are cheap insurance for all sorts of maladies
and can be adjusted to deliver that satifying "snick" as all three lights
come on together, both on the up and down while minimizing shock loads.
IMHO, leaving the gear handle up while flying does not impose a shock load and
actually reduces fatigue cycles.
Just my devalued 2 cents USD worth.
Craig Payne
Message 12
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| Subject: | SNF Field Conditions |
As I sit here banging on this keyboard on the Lanai, the sound of a tropical downpour
overwhelms me to the point of needing more ice for my glass of cheap port
(hey, I fly a CJ).
This is the DRY season, Sun 'n Fun starts in a week and now our weather soothsayers
see a week of June-like tropical downpours during Happy Hour.
What this means to the inbound attendee is to expect soft tiedowns, gusty winds,
high grass, possible continued afternoon rains, and plenty of bugs that bite.
Craig Payne
Message 13
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I know the discussion has gone around about mogas in our round
engines, but I do not recall anyone writing about hauling the fuel to
the field. I have looked at the transfer tanks (50-100 gal) for a
pickup bed and they all say "not for gasoline" They all imply they
are for diesel only. I know the volatility and explosiveness of gas
compared to diesel, but are there tanks approved for hauling gas? Is
it really that dangerous to haul and roll, I mean fill your own? Any
suggestions for pumps? I would think this is the biggest opportunity
for an accident, with gas running through an electric pump. Any
recommendations for grounding? I was planning on grounding the plane
and the truck/tank. Using an electric fence grounding rod after the
ground thaws and I can drive it.
Leaving a tank is not an option at KGRB and avgas here is 5.45 whereas
I can buy premium ethanol free with no road tax for about 3.02 now.
Herb
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Yak-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Yak-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/yak-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Yak-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Yak-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Yak-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Yak-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Yak-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Yak-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Yak-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Yak-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Yak
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Official Yak-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Yak-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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