Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:20 AM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (napeone)
2. 06:45 AM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (N395V)
3. 08:15 AM - Spiced up CJs (Hal)
4. 09:05 AM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Jim Shanks)
5. 09:33 AM - Carb & rings (GJHagstrom@aol.com)
6. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Brian Lloyd)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: Spiced up CJs (dabear)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Brian Lloyd)
9. 09:57 AM - Re: Carb & rings (Brian Lloyd)
10. 10:00 AM - Re: Spiced up CJs (KingCJ6@aol.com)
11. 10:48 AM - Re: Spiced up CJs (John Cox)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
13. 12:16 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 12:19 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (napeone)
15. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Jay Land)
17. 12:35 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 12:37 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
19. 02:10 PM - M-14P/PF (Jerry Painter)
20. 02:57 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (Budd Davisson)
21. 05:03 PM - FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq... (jon blake)
22. 05:32 PM - Re: FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq... (Jim Griffin)
23. 07:32 PM - Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp (napeone)
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Increasing the horse power in an engine simply by inceasing the boost is not the
best way to go. Especially in an aircraft engine.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177599#177599
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Brian,
I know absolutely nothing about Yaks, their values, performance, saleability but....
I put an M14 PF on my plane. It was the 2nd Radial Rocket flying. The prototype
has an M14P on it. In side by side trials I knocked the snot out of the prototype
in Takeoff and climb. In cruise I can choose to burn more fuel and outrun
them or I can throttle back and cruise along side the prototype at the same fuel
burn.
Maintenance is no different. The cost differential between the 2 was primarily
adding the electric start.
Since I built my plane 7 more Radial Rocket kits have been delivered ALL of them
with M14 PFs. Not a single person considered the 360 hp and happily paid the
price differential.
As far as increasing the boost "not being the best way to go" for additional HP
I think the compression ratio is low enough and the engines robust enough that
that is not an issue.
This is a fairly penalty free HP increase and in my opinion will certainly make
your plane more marketable and noticeably a better performer.
The other thing I did to my engine was remove the pressure carb and put on an Airflow
Performance Throttle body with manual mixture control.
It has a half inch greater diameter barrel than the carb, is much simpler, eliminates
the need for carb heat and allows me to control the mixture.
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177607#177607
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Brian,
I would agree with Dennis.
In my experience a good number of CJ drivers want to buy on the cheap
because they have seen the ads for the $58,000 CJ fresh from China after
complete Chinese overhaul and ready to fly. And then ..... their American
competitiveness and hotrod roots start coming to the surface and the
upgrades start. Smoke, bigger engine, new prop, oil filter, bigger tanks,
baggage compartment, some new glass instruments and radios, an alternator
(saves about 35#), new rubber and nose wheel, some body work and of course
paint. (And then there are the rockets and .50 caliber gun barrels!!
Cool!)
Not only do the bills add up, but the down-time is significant (unless they
can do it themselves and enjoy the time on the ground). I think that the
buyer who looks for a plane that is already set up well will do a lot better
financially and time wise.
Regarding your choices, I would rather have the M14-P with the Performance
Airflow injection carb and the TotalSeal piston, ring and valve setup. The
folks who have the injection carb claim they are seeing a healthy increase
in power with instantaneous power response and the ability to manually lean
the engine. The TotalSeal setup apparently increases horsepower (I've read
that on racing engines the TotalSeal reduces blow by to about 2-3% - and
keeps it there through a bunch of races). The folks who have these down in
AZ also claim that their oil burn is reduced from a liter or more per hour
to a tablespoon - or less - per hour and that the oil stays clean.
The stock CJ, like the stock 1932 Ford Coupe, are both good machines. Until
some dang fool puts in a bigger engine. With a bit of chrome. And maybe a
little Tuck 'n Roll........
Hal
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
I've got the standard 285 in my CJ and I love it. But, its a stock
CJ with "nothing special" other than it runs great all the time. I
think the popular setup is a CJ with the M-14P and 3 bladed prop. It
looks damn good and has to "power back" in formation flight to allow
everyone else to play (just ask Forrest.) I think that's "enough"
power!
The PF is a relatively unknown entity at this time, but since you
are building a "high end" project, it may attract a "high end" buyer
come sell time. I think the middle-of-the-road option (M-14P/MT prop)
is the most bang-for-your-buck right now.
Brian, why are you already thinking of selling "The Project"? Once
you get it tweaked just right, you ain't never gonna sell!
Jim Shanks
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What company puts out the Performance Airflow Carb ? And the Total Seal ring
set ?
Thanks ,
Gary
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
On Apr 18, 2008, at 6:17 AM, napeone wrote:
>
> Increasing the horse power in an engine simply by inceasing the
> boost is not the best way to go. Especially in an aircraft engine.
Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The M14PF has a good
record for reliability. I suspect that the builders have done their
homework.
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
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| Subject: | Re: Spiced up CJs |
This coming from a CJ pilot who is now adding a kitchen and bathroom
sink into his airplane?
BTW, did you get the CAT III cert for your CJ?
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: Hal
To: Yak List
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Spiced up CJs
Brian,
I would agree with Dennis.
In my experience a good number of CJ drivers want to buy on the cheap
because they have seen the ads for the $58,000 CJ fresh from China after
complete Chinese overhaul and ready to fly. And then ..... their
American competitiveness and hotrod roots start coming to the surface
and the upgrades start. Smoke, bigger engine, new prop, oil filter,
bigger tanks, baggage compartment, some new glass instruments and
radios, an alternator (saves about 35#), new rubber and nose wheel, some
body work and of course paint. (And then there are the rockets and .50
caliber gun barrels!! Cool!)
Not only do the bills add up, but the down-time is significant (unless
they can do it themselves and enjoy the time on the ground). I think
that the buyer who looks for a plane that is already set up well will do
a lot better financially and time wise.
Regarding your choices, I would rather have the M14-P with the
Performance Airflow injection carb and the TotalSeal piston, ring and
valve setup. The folks who have the injection carb claim they are
seeing a healthy increase in power with instantaneous power response and
the ability to manually lean the engine. The TotalSeal setup apparently
increases horsepower (I've read that on racing engines the TotalSeal
reduces blow by to about 2-3% - and keeps it there through a bunch of
races). The folks who have these down in AZ also claim that their oil
burn is reduced from a liter or more per hour to a tablespoon - or less
- per hour and that the oil stays clean.
The stock CJ, like the stock 1932 Ford Coupe, are both good machines.
Until some dang fool puts in a bigger engine. With a bit of chrome.
And maybe a little Tuck 'n Roll........
Hal
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
On Apr 18, 2008, at 8:58 AM, Jim Shanks wrote:
> I've got the standard 285 in my CJ and I love it. But, its a
> stock CJ with "nothing special" other than it runs great all the
> time. I think the popular setup is a CJ with the M-14P and 3 bladed
> prop. It looks damn good and has to "power back" in formation
> flight to allow everyone else to play (just ask Forrest.) I think
> that's "enough" power!
There is never such a thing as too much power. ;-)
> The PF is a relatively unknown entity at this time, but since
> you are building a "high end" project, it may attract a "high end"
> buyer come sell time. I think the middle-of-the-road option (M-14P/
> MT prop) is the most bang-for-your-buck right now.
OK.
> Brian, why are you already thinking of selling "The Project"?
> Once you get it tweaked just right, you ain't never gonna sell!
Thanks for the input Jim. I have a fair amount of time in the CJ
(about 800 hours) and in the Yak-52 (about 100 hours). I am pretty
familiar with the aircraft. While I think that the CJ6A is a fantastic
airplane, it no longer really meets my needs for the type of flying I
am now doing.
So, I want to build "The Airplane" for someone out there who wants one
done "just right".
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Carb & rings |
On Apr 18, 2008, at 9:27 AM, GJHagstrom@aol.com wrote:
> What company puts out the Performance Airflow Carb ?
Airflow Performance. (http://airflowperformance.com/) It is a single-
point fuel injection system.
(On the other hand, a pressure carb is a single-point fuel injection
system too. It is not a carburetor as we think of it.)
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Spiced up CJs |
The last plans we saw now show a only kitchen "nook", thus allowing more
space for the 52" plasma-equipped recreation room.
In a message dated 4/18/2008 9:40:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Dabear@damned.org writes:
This coming from a CJ pilot who is now adding a kitchen and bathroom sink
into his airplane?
BTW, did you get the CAT III cert for your CJ?
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: _Hal_ (mailto:yakjock@gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Spiced up CJs
Brian,
I would agree with Dennis.
In my experience a good number of CJ drivers want to buy on the cheap
because they have seen the ads for the $58,000 CJ fresh from China after complete
Chinese overhaul and ready to fly. And then ..... their American
competitiveness and hotrod roots start coming to the surface and the upgrades
start.
Smoke, bigger engine, new prop, oil filter, bigger tanks, baggage compartment,
some new glass instruments and radios, an alternator (saves about 35#), new
rubber and nose wheel, some body work and of course paint. (And then there
are the rockets and .50 caliber gun barrels!! Cool!)
Not only do the bills add up, but the down-time is significant (unless they
can do it themselves and enjoy the time on the ground). I think that the
buyer who looks for a plane that is already set up well will do a lot better
financially and time wise.
Regarding your choices, I would rather have the M14-P with the Performance
Airflow injection carb and the TotalSeal piston, ring and valve setup. The
folks who have the injection carb claim they are seeing a healthy increase in
power with instantaneous power response and the ability to manually lean the
engine. The TotalSeal setup apparently increases horsepower (I've read that
on racing engines the TotalSeal reduces blow by to about 2-3% - and keeps it
there through a bunch of races). The folks who have these down in AZ also
claim that their oil burn is reduced from a liter or more per hour to a
tablespoon - or less - per hour and that the oil stays clean.
The stock CJ, like the stock 1932 Ford Coupe, are both good machines. Until
some dang fool puts in a bigger engine. With a bit of chrome. And maybe a
little Tuck 'n Roll........
Hal
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 11
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The flat panel screen in back is not quite that large but your going to
hear no complaints from me since it is Flat Panel and not Steam Gauges
with the "Nook remodel". It's the Oxygen Bar that is the real Cat's
Meow.
John Cox - GIB
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of KingCJ6@aol.com
Sent: Fri 4/18/2008 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Spiced up CJs
The last plans we saw now show a only kitchen "nook", thus allowing more
space for the 52" plasma-equipped recreation room.
In a message dated 4/18/2008 9:40:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Dabear@damned.org writes:
This coming from a CJ pilot who is now adding a kitchen and bathroom
sink into his airplane?
BTW, did you get the CAT III cert for your CJ?
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: Hal <mailto:yakjock@gmail.com>
To: Yak List <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Spiced up CJs
Brian,
I would agree with Dennis.
In my experience a good number of CJ drivers want to buy on the cheap
because they have seen the ads for the $58,000 CJ fresh from China after
complete Chinese overhaul and ready to fly. And then ..... their
American competitiveness and hotrod roots start coming to the surface
and the upgrades start. Smoke, bigger engine, new prop, oil filter,
bigger tanks, baggage compartment, some new glass instruments and
radios, an alternator (saves about 35#), new rubber and nose wheel, some
body work and of course paint. (And then there are the rockets and .50
caliber gun barrels!! Cool!)
Not only do the bills add up, but the down-time is significant (unless
they can do it themselves and enjoy the time on the ground). I think
that the buyer who looks for a plane that is already set up well will do
a lot better financially and time wise.
Regarding your choices, I would rather have the M14-P with the
Performance Airflow injection carb and the TotalSeal piston, ring and
valve setup. The folks who have the injection carb claim they are
seeing a healthy increase in power with instantaneous power response and
the ability to manually lean the engine. The TotalSeal setup apparently
increases horsepower (I've read that on racing engines the TotalSeal
reduces blow by to about 2-3% - and keeps it there through a bunch of
races). The folks who have these down in AZ also claim that their oil
burn is reduced from a liter or more per hour to a tablespoon - or less
- per hour and that the oil stays clean.
The stock CJ, like the stock 1932 Ford Coupe, are both good machines.
Until some dang fool puts in a bigger engine. With a bit of chrome.
And maybe a little Tuck 'n Roll........
Hal
________________________________
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings
at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Please define what you mean by "the best way to go". The word "best"
needs to be qualified. As in: "Best" from what exact perspective? I'm
curious as to your particular perspective simply because when money was
no object at all, every engine designer that I've even known has used
some type of external air compressor to pump more air and fuel into a
given engine. Across the board. I've even seen a lawn mower engine
with a blower on it. That aside, please explain your statement since it
tends to disagree with most every engine designer and builder and their
products...that ever put their name on a sign post. Most especially
aircraft engine designers.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of napeone
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:17
Subject: Yak-List: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
Increasing the horse power in an engine simply by inceasing the boost is
not the best way to go. Especially in an aircraft engine.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177599#177599
Message 13
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| Subject: | opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
A case of beer says that I will not even come close to being able to fit
in it, let alone FLY it.
Mark
P.s. I'd love to lose.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dabear
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 19:34
Subject: Re: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
Mark, There ya go again making generalizations.... :-)
You'll fit in a CJ. Just have to make some small modifications. I'll
try and make the NC event and let you sit in mine. Hopefully I'll have
Barry's rudder ped mod by then.
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> IMHO there is never too much power in an airplane.
>
> More power is going to be a deciding factor between airplanes.
>
> Yes, I would pay more for a PF vs a P equipped ANYTHING.
>
> What it would be worth to me is hard to estimate, but at least 5-10
> thou.
>
> I don't fit in a CJ so I don't look. If it were a YAK-50, you're darn
> straight... I'd run and not walk to buy it.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 14:13
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
>
>
> I am getting ready to buy an engine for The Project. I am interested
in
> opinions about desirability of an M14P vs. M14PF in a CJ6A. Here are
my
> questions:
>
> 1. Would you pay more for a CJ6A with an M14PF instead of an M14P?
>
> 2. If so, how much more would it be worth to you?
>
> 3. If you were looking at several different CJ6As, would 400hp attract
> you more than 360hp?
>
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
1B6C
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
The PF was introduced as a high power engine version not a long life version, if
you use the horsepower.
But given the choice, I will take all the power I can reasonably get. I currently
fly a Yak50 with the MP14 and a 260MT three blade.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177706#177706
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
There is no question that if you increase the horsepower of an engine,
it's lifetime will become less. As you said, if you use that horsepower
on a regular basis. With the PF, the choice is simply in your left hand.
I own a YAK 50 also, with an M-14P and have flown it with more than a
few props, except for the new MT FW-190 blades. I'd take a PF engine
over mine in a heartbeat. Better yet, an M-9.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of napeone
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 15:17
Subject: Yak-List: Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
The PF was introduced as a high power engine version not a long life
version, if you use the horsepower.
But given the choice, I will take all the power I can reasonably get. I
currently fly a Yak50 with the MP14 and a 260MT three blade.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177706#177706
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Anybody have a PF engine, or a core or prop striked engine that they want to
sell?
Thanks!
Jay
Message 17
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| Subject: | opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Option 3.
Why:
1. It will climb faster.
2. With the bigger blower, it will not only develop more power on the
ground, it will also develop more power at altitude, meaning it will
have a higher ceiling. You might want to consider putting a different
fuel system on it that allows leaning manually.
3. It will cruise at a faster speed with less RPM.
4. For those that decry the additional boost, remember that boost is
simply a matter of how far you push the throttle forward. You put a
throttle stop on it and it becomes a P model. More or less. Mostly
more, slightly less. Remove the throttle stop and you have "WAR
RESERVE". :-)
5. More power means more options, especially when operating from higher
altitude airports with short runways.
I have an over 600 horsepower 68 Camaro. It gets better fuel mileage
than my 1998 Dodge Pickup with less than half that power, IF you keep
your foot out of it. Same thing can be said about any engine, including
the P // PF comparison.
6. The PF usually comes with a standard SAE prop flange, which makes it
compatible with more model props, at a slightly cheaper cost.
7. MT props will be cheaper if purchased used. Why? Most serious acro
guys have to be on the leading edge with prop performance. When MT came
out with the thick root design blades, most of the serious guys
immediately went out and purchased them, and the old ones are out there
for sale much cheaper.
8. The selling price of PF model engines is climbing faster than P
models, which of course makes it the more valuable engine to have.
Brian, have you thought of taking the middle road and going with a "B"
model? I've thought about that a lot. Take a "B" model, add Bill
Blackwell's piston and cylinder mods, and you end up with a tough as
nails M-14 with OVER 400 HP. :-)
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 19:45
Subject: Re: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E wrote:
> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> It's a matter of perspective. The difference in speed between a CJ
> with
> 360 HP and one with 400 HP is going to be more or less minimal.
> However, it's impact on climb rate, short field performance, and a
> host
> of other things will always be impacted by more horsepower.
>
> Regardless, adding horsepower is most ALWAYS a matter of digging deep
> into ones pockets. Remember, Brian did not ask what the feasability,
> cost, or common sense was of ADDING the horsepower. He asked if it
> would impact people when they looked at an airplane so equipped versus
> one not so equipped and that said... By how much?
>
> Pilots will always run to the airplane with the biggest motor. Some
> may
> not, but the ones that don't usually are not the owners of YAKS and
> CJ's.
Thanks to everyone who has responded.
Just so everyone understands, I am making the decision to equip The
Project with an engine. There is no difference in cost to install an
M14P and M14PF other than the difference in engine cost. Prop is the
same too. So there are two questions:
1. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
with a Huosai?
2. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
with an M14P?
3. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
with an M14PF?
4. Which of the above configurations will be easier to sell?
BTW, the rest is up for discussion too but the airframe is first-rate.
It is a 1967 airframe that has been totally disassembled and rebuilt
from the ground up. It has Doug's 36gal wing center section aux fuel
giving the aircraft 78 gal of fuel with stock wing tanks, more with
bladders.
So all I am trying to decide now is how to finish it out so that it
will be most salable. If someone is looking for a like-new CJ6A
tailored to their tastes, contact me now and I will be happy to equip
the aircraft the way you want it. BTW, it will NOT have the old
instruments or electrical system. These were removed and discarded.
Electrical system and panels will be brand-new and modern.
Likewise, since this CJ6A will be as light as it is possible to make
it, it will also climb like a bat-out-of-hell. The big engine will
also allow it to cruise effectively at the O2 altitudes when going
cross-country.
So, the next big decision is the engine and that is why I am asking
you guys.
Thanks.
>
Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A 1B6C
Message 18
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| Subject: | opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Russian engines are a question mark in a LOT of peoples eyes. :-)
Sorry.....
I'm posting too much here... I'll stop. I will say that the PF models
used to make me nervous too, until I saw how Hubie Tolson treated his,
and how long a few of them lasted.
I am not nervous about them anymore. They're a kick ass reliable
engine.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Budd Davisson
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 19:53
Subject: Re: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
The PF engine is a question mark in some people's eyes. The P is not.
Factor that into the equation.
On 4/17/08 4:44 PM, "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> It's a matter of perspective. The difference in speed between a CJ
>> with 360 HP and one with 400 HP is going to be more or less minimal.
>> However, it's impact on climb rate, short field performance, and a
>> host of other things will always be impacted by more horsepower.
>>
>> Regardless, adding horsepower is most ALWAYS a matter of digging deep
>> into ones pockets. Remember, Brian did not ask what the feasability,
>> cost, or common sense was of ADDING the horsepower. He asked if it
>> would impact people when they looked at an airplane so equipped
>> versus one not so equipped and that said... By how much?
>>
>> Pilots will always run to the airplane with the biggest motor. Some
>> may not, but the ones that don't usually are not the owners of YAKS
>> and CJ's.
>
> Thanks to everyone who has responded.
>
> Just so everyone understands, I am making the decision to equip The
> Project with an engine. There is no difference in cost to install an
> M14P and M14PF other than the difference in engine cost. Prop is the
> same too. So there are two questions:
>
> 1. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
> with a Huosai?
>
> 2. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
> with an M14P?
>
> 3. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
> with an M14PF?
>
> 4. Which of the above configurations will be easier to sell?
>
> BTW, the rest is up for discussion too but the airframe is first-rate.
> It is a 1967 airframe that has been totally disassembled and rebuilt
> from the ground up. It has Doug's 36gal wing center section aux fuel
> giving the aircraft 78 gal of fuel with stock wing tanks, more with
> bladders.
>
> So all I am trying to decide now is how to finish it out so that it
> will be most salable. If someone is looking for a like-new CJ6A
> tailored to their tastes, contact me now and I will be happy to equip
> the aircraft the way you want it. BTW, it will NOT have the old
> instruments or electrical system. These were removed and discarded.
> Electrical system and panels will be brand-new and modern.
>
> Likewise, since this CJ6A will be as light as it is possible to make
> it, it will also climb like a bat-out-of-hell. The big engine will
> also allow it to cruise effectively at the O2 altitudes when going
> cross-country.
>
> So, the next big decision is the engine and that is why I am asking
> you guys.
>
> Thanks.
>
>>
>
> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
> 1B6C
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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Brian,
Dennis is right on, again. But if you keep it you'll love the additional
power, especially climb. Or you can buy my 200TTSNEW -52TW and get it all
for less than the cost of the upgraded CJ.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
wild.blue@verizon.net
www.flywba.com
425-876-0865
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
Do the new Romanian engines have a better reputation or worse?
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Russian engines are a question mark in a LOT of peoples eyes. :-)
> Sorry.....
>
> I'm posting too much here... I'll stop. I will say that the PF models
> used to make me nervous too, until I saw how Hubie Tolson treated his,
> and how long a few of them lasted.
>
> I am not nervous about them anymore. They're a kick ass reliable
> engine.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Budd Davisson
> Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 19:53
> To: Yak List
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp
>
>
> The PF engine is a question mark in some people's eyes. The P is not.
> Factor that into the equation.
>
>
> On 4/17/08 4:44 PM, "Brian Lloyd" <brian-1927@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 17, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
>> MALS-14 64E wrote:
>>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>> It's a matter of perspective. The difference in speed between a CJ
>>> with 360 HP and one with 400 HP is going to be more or less minimal.
>>> However, it's impact on climb rate, short field performance, and a
>>> host of other things will always be impacted by more horsepower.
>>>
>>> Regardless, adding horsepower is most ALWAYS a matter of digging deep
>
>>> into ones pockets. Remember, Brian did not ask what the feasability,
>>> cost, or common sense was of ADDING the horsepower. He asked if it
>>> would impact people when they looked at an airplane so equipped
>>> versus one not so equipped and that said... By how much?
>>>
>>> Pilots will always run to the airplane with the biggest motor. Some
>>> may not, but the ones that don't usually are not the owners of YAKS
>>> and CJ's.
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who has responded.
>>
>> Just so everyone understands, I am making the decision to equip The
>> Project with an engine. There is no difference in cost to install an
>> M14P and M14PF other than the difference in engine cost. Prop is the
>> same too. So there are two questions:
>>
>> 1. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
>> with a Huosai?
>>
>> 2. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
>> with an M14P?
>>
>> 3. Will I be able to get my money out of the airplane if I equip it
>> with an M14PF?
>>
>> 4. Which of the above configurations will be easier to sell?
>>
>> BTW, the rest is up for discussion too but the airframe is first-rate.
>> It is a 1967 airframe that has been totally disassembled and rebuilt
>> from the ground up. It has Doug's 36gal wing center section aux fuel
>> giving the aircraft 78 gal of fuel with stock wing tanks, more with
>> bladders.
>>
>> So all I am trying to decide now is how to finish it out so that it
>> will be most salable. If someone is looking for a like-new CJ6A
>> tailored to their tastes, contact me now and I will be happy to equip
>> the aircraft the way you want it. BTW, it will NOT have the old
>> instruments or electrical system. These were removed and discarded.
>> Electrical system and panels will be brand-new and modern.
>>
>> Likewise, since this CJ6A will be as light as it is possible to make
>> it, it will also climb like a bat-out-of-hell. The big engine will
>> also allow it to cruise effectively at the O2 altitudes when going
>> cross-country.
>>
>> So, the next big decision is the engine and that is why I am asking
>> you guys.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>>
>>
>> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>> brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
>> 1B6C
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq... |
>From an Australian whose son is in Iraq ~~~~~ Gentlemen
I am an Australian and my son is an Australian - as far as we are
concerned there is not place on God's earth better than Australia, and
there are no people better than Australians.
That was until the past week or so.
My son is in the Australian Army and he is currently on deployment in
Iraq. I can not go into his duties in great depth, but shall we say that
he and his fellow army buddies are on a glorified guard duty looking
after the Australian Embassy. They don't go out looking for "action",
though it is a different story in Afghanistan, there the Aussie troops
chase the baddies over the hills and into the valleys..
My son and I just ended a long 'phone conversation and here are some of
his comments, believe me this is what he said. We have all seen the
bullshit emails written by some clown in his lounge room pretending to
be at the coal face, but this is what was said.:
"Before I came over here I thought we (the Australian Army) were pretty
shit hot..... was I ever wrong!....The Yanks (I hope you don't mind me
using that word) are so professional from the top to the bottom that it
is almost embarrassing to be in their company, and to call yourself a
soldier....don't get me wrong, we are good at what we do but the Yanks
are so much better.....they are complete at what they do, how they do it
and their attitude is awesome....they don't complain they just get on
with the job and they do it right.....I carry a Minimi (SAW) so I am not
real worried about a confrontation but I tell you I feel safer just
knowing that the US Army is close by....If we got into trouble I know
that our boys would come running and we could deal with it but they
would probably be passed by a load of Hummers. No questions asked, no
glory sought, the Americans would just fight with us and for us because
that is their nature, to protect those in need of protection.....We use
the American Mess so you could say that we are fed by the
Americans.....they have every right to be pissed at that but they don't
bitch about that they just make us feel as welcome as possible....what
gets to me is that the Yanks don't walk around with a "we are better
than you attitude" and they could because they are, they treat us as
equals and as brothers in arms. If nothing else, coming here has taught
me that the Americans are a truly great Nation and a truly great bunch
of people.....Let's face it they don't HAVE to be here, they could stay
in America and beat the shit out of anyone who threatened them, BUT THEY
ARE HERE because they believe they should be here, and the Iraqis would
be screwed if they weren't here.....When I come home, you and I we are
going to the US, we will buy some bikes and we are going riding...."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
The reason why I am sharing this with you is because I realize that you
(as a nation) must get pretty pissed with all the criticism you receive
by the so-called "know it alls" who are sitting at home - safe. The
reality is that they are safe, just as I am, because of America . If the
world went arse up tomorrow there is little we ( Australia ) could do
about it, but I know that the Americans would be there putting
themselves on the line for others. That to me is the sign of greatness.
The most precious thing in my life is my son, I look at him and I thank
God that I am fortunate enough to be able to spend time in his company.
We laugh, we discuss, we argue, we dummy spit, we have the same blood. I
am not happy that he is where he is but that is his duty. He joined the
Army to protect and to defend, not to play games. I mightn't like it but
I accept it. My reasons for not liking it are selfish and self centered.
I felt assured that he would be safe because he is in a well trained
army with an excellent record, BUT NOW, I feel a whole lot better
knowing that he is with your sons, daughters, brothers and sisters.
Whilst he was growing up. I was always there to look after him, I would
not let harm befall him and I would always put myself before him to
protect him. I can't do that now. When it comes to looking after him now
he and his mates will do the job, but also THANK GOD FOR AMERICA.
Gentlemen, I have rambled on for too long. but as I finish I say to you,
as a foreigner and outsider, a nation is only a collection of its people
and its attitude is the attitude of its people, collectively and as
individuals. I am really glad you are here on this Earth and I respect
you as a nation and as people.
Stand up and feel proud because you deserve it, there is no one else who
will do what America does without question. The next time someone howls
you down, take some comfort in the fact that America is defending their
right to act like an idiot.
Finally, thank you for looking after my son.
Peter Turner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq... |
FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq...Thanks for sharing your
thoughts with us. Your right, there is no better people better than
Australians. The Aussies honor their ANZAC warriors, and hold them in
higher esteem than our American service men and women receive here.
It was nice to hear another perspective from the one we get here. It
makes us proud of our Service people.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: jon blake
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:59 PM
Subject: Yak-List: FW: From an Australian whose son is in Iraq...
From an Australian whose son is in Iraq ~~~~~ Gentlemen
I am an Australian and my son is an Australian - as far as we are
concerned there is not place on God's earth better than Australia, and
there are no people better than Australians.
That was until the past week or so.
My son is in the Australian Army and he is currently on deployment in
Iraq. I can not go into his duties in great depth, but shall we say that
he and his fellow army buddies are on a glorified guard duty looking
after the Australian Embassy. They don't go out looking for "action",
though it is a different story in Afghanistan, there the Aussie troops
chase the baddies over the hills and into the valleys..
My son and I just ended a long 'phone conversation and here are some
of his comments, believe me this is what he said. We have all seen the
bullshit emails written by some clown in his lounge room pretending to
be at the coal face, but this is what was said.:
"Before I came over here I thought we (the Australian Army) were
pretty shit hot..... was I ever wrong!....The Yanks (I hope you don't
mind me using that word) are so professional from the top to the bottom
that it is almost embarrassing to be in their company, and to call
yourself a soldier....don't get me wrong, we are good at what we do but
the Yanks are so much better.....they are complete at what they do, how
they do it and their attitude is awesome....they don't complain they
just get on with the job and they do it right.....I carry a Minimi (SAW)
so I am not real worried about a confrontation but I tell you I feel
safer just knowing that the US Army is close by....If we got into
trouble I know that our boys would come running and we could deal with
it but they would probably be passed by a load of Hummers. No questions
asked, no glory sought, the Americans would just fight with us and for
us because that is their nature, to protect those in need of
protection.....We use the American Mess so you could say that we are fed
by the Americans.....they have every right to be pissed at that but they
don't bitch about that they just make us feel as welcome as
possible....what gets to me is that the Yanks don't walk around with a
"we are better than you attitude" and they could because they are, they
treat us as equals and as brothers in arms. If nothing else, coming here
has taught me that the Americans are a truly great Nation and a truly
great bunch of people.....Let's face it they don't HAVE to be here, they
could stay in America and beat the shit out of anyone who threatened
them, BUT THEY ARE HERE because they believe they should be here, and
the Iraqis would be screwed if they weren't here.....When I come home,
you and I we are going to the US, we will buy some bikes and we are
going riding...."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
The reason why I am sharing this with you is because I realize that
you (as a nation) must get pretty pissed with all the criticism you
receive by the so-called "know it alls" who are sitting at home - safe.
The reality is that they are safe, just as I am, because of America . If
the world went arse up tomorrow there is little we ( Australia ) could
do about it, but I know that the Americans would be there putting
themselves on the line for others. That to me is the sign of greatness.
The most precious thing in my life is my son, I look at him and I
thank God that I am fortunate enough to be able to spend time in his
company.
We laugh, we discuss, we argue, we dummy spit, we have the same blood.
I am not happy that he is where he is but that is his duty. He joined
the Army to protect and to defend, not to play games. I mightn't like it
but I accept it. My reasons for not liking it are selfish and self
centered.
I felt assured that he would be safe because he is in a well trained
army with an excellent record, BUT NOW, I feel a whole lot better
knowing that he is with your sons, daughters, brothers and sisters.
Whilst he was growing up. I was always there to look after him, I
would not let harm befall him and I would always put myself before him
to protect him. I can't do that now. When it comes to looking after him
now he and his mates will do the job, but also THANK GOD FOR AMERICA.
Gentlemen, I have rambled on for too long. but as I finish I say to
you, as a foreigner and outsider, a nation is only a collection of its
people and its attitude is the attitude of its people, collectively and
as individuals. I am really glad you are here on this Earth and I
respect you as a nation and as people.
Stand up and feel proud because you deserve it, there is no one else
who will do what America does without question. The next time someone
howls you down, take some comfort in the fact that America is defending
their right to act like an idiot.
Finally, thank you for looking after my son.
Peter Turner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: opinions: 360 hp vs. 400 hp |
By " Best way to go", I mean that I would prefer to port, polish, and fine tune
the carburetion and ignition as a better way to go than increasing boost as the
most reliable alternative. Using the additional boost only at altitude also
makes a lot of sense. Those living at high MSL would also benefit
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177792#177792
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