Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:52 PM - High Res CJ Formation Pic needed (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
2. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
3. 05:43 PM - Gliding range specs for Nanchang (skidmk)
4. 06:52 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (doug sapp)
5. 07:20 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Terry Lewis)
6. 07:38 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Larry)
7. 07:42 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 08:09 PM - Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 08:23 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Jon Boede)
10. 09:06 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 09:23 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Roger Kemp M.D.)
12. 09:55 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Jay Land)
13. 10:59 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | High Res CJ Formation Pic needed |
All:
We could use one or two high res pics of a CJ formation for EAA Warbird magazine.
Nice composition, no clutter, no parts of the photo ship in view, and not a picture
from the ground of a formation flying by. Nice air-to-air shot! Good lighting,
etc.
Please send to me off list at capav8r@gmail.com
Thanks to those who submitted CJ and CJ-5/Yak-18 photos already.
Thanks,
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180010#180010
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| Subject: | Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak |
David, I am far from an expert in this matter, as exhibited by the fact
that I can not understand what happened in your particular case. Thanks
for sending me the information.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of napeone
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 22:00
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak
Mark
The exact meteorological conditions were outside airtemp 50F, high
humidity. Also included was a prolonged low power descent. Application
of carb heat cured the problem.
Thank you for your explanation of the workings of a pressure carb.
David H.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179087#179087
Message 3
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
Hi all,,
doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding
specs on the chang? anyone?
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk <bourgem@cia.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,,
>
> doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for
> gliding specs on the chang? anyone?
>
> thanks
>
> --------
> Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
> Ottawa, Ontario
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
Doug knows from experience.
Believe it!
A careful search of the archives seemed to indicate that if you throw
your car keys out when the engine quits that is your landing target.
Anything else is stretching it .
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: doug sapp
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk <bourgem@cia.com> wrote:
Hi all,,
doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was
looking for gliding specs on the chang? anyone?
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 6
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
When I had an engine out in my cj, it seemed like the glide ratio was 1 to 1.
It might be more be more but it sure felt like 1 to 1.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: skidmk <bourgem@cia.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 17:41
Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
Hi all,,
doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding
specs on the chang? anyone?
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You could
most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross weight,
airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However in playing with
my
CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3 the distance in from the
wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean glide, with a wind-milling
engine. That's for just about any altitude too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with
a
paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese metal prop would give you a somewhat better
glide.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change |
I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess
my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am
curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the
pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light
civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I
mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are
still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon
kind of thing.
On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding
range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty
damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than
on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way.
As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the
180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to
the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had
to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER
before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO
MOTOR.
In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a
very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew
how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason
for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on
downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore!
Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee!
So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close
and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your
thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to
glide ratios?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You
could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross
weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However
in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3
the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean
glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude
too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese
metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings
at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
I have a friend who's pretty much 100% rotor time... the whole "how do the
wings stay on?" thing makes her nervous. Doing any kind of aerobatics bring
s loud protests (although a carrier break seems to have become an "approved
" maneuver).
Power-off gliding seems to be the only "familiar" thing... because with the
power off the Chang has the glide ratio of a helicopter in an auto-rotatio
n. :-)
Jon
From: dougsappllc@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk <bourgem@cia.com> wrote:
Hi all,,
doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for g
liding specs on the chang? anyone?
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 10
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang |
And that comes from a man with first hand experience in testing the engine
out glide ratio of a rock.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk <bourgem@cia.com> wrote:
Hi all,,
doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for
gliding specs on the chang? anyone?
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 11
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change |
Wanna get your attention on downwind? Pull the throttle a the east Jesus box
patten that so many are flying. Then see if you make the runway or not. I'm
betting on NOT!
If the edge of the runway is not on your wingtip on downwind atleast in the
52 and the 50 to some extent, you are not going to make the runway when you
pull your power.
To answer your question, I fly an approximate 13 degree Approach in the 50
at 160 Kph. With rolling off the perch at the numbers or just slightly past
my aim point on the threshold. That pretty much is how I fly the 52 also but
with a steeper nose down approach. Those barn doors hanging out makes it a
lot easier.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:07 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess
my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am
curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the
pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light
civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I
mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are
still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon
kind of thing.
On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding
range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty
damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than
on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way.
As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the
180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to
the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had
to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER
before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO
MOTOR.
In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a
very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew
how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason
for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on
downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore!
Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee!
So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close
and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your
thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to
glide ratios?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You
could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross
weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However
in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3
the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean
glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude
too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese
metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings
at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change |
I had my Examiner during the Commercial check ride say " please no
aerobatics on final" as I maneuvered for the dead stick emergency spot
landing after a spiral descent from 3500 feet overhead.
Basically the CJ comes down like a brick so I acted like a real emergency
and kept it high and used all the drag and maneuvering to hit my spot- got a
bit aggressive on final I guess but made it work. I've always understood
the idea of hitting the far fence at 30 mph rather than the trees in front
of the aim point at 80 mph.
Bomber patterns don't work in the CJ if the motor quits....
>
> As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the
> 180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to
> the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had
> to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER
> before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO
> MOTOR.
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change |
I prefer close and high, and always "carrier approach", slipping of what is
too much. Unfortunately there are quite some airfields in Europe where
you're supposed (urged) to fly a circuit like a big Boeing or Airbus and
preferably with a three degree approach on final. So I try to avoid the
bigger airfields as much as possible.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: woensdag 30 april 2008 5:07
Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess
my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am
curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the
pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light
civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I
mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are
still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon
kind of thing.
On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding
range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty
damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than
on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way.
As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the
180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to
the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had
to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER
before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO
MOTOR.
In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a
very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew
how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason
for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on
downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore!
Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee!
So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close
and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your
thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to
glide ratios?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang
I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You
could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross
weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However
in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3
the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean
glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude
too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese
metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
________________________________
Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings
at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851> .
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