---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/29/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:52 PM - High Res CJ Formation Pic needed (Craig Winkelmann, CFI) 2. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 3. 05:43 PM - Gliding range specs for Nanchang (skidmk) 4. 06:52 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (doug sapp) 5. 07:20 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Terry Lewis) 6. 07:38 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Larry) 7. 07:42 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (cjpilot710@aol.com) 8. 08:09 PM - Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 9. 08:23 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Jon Boede) 10. 09:06 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang (Roger Kemp M.D.) 11. 09:23 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Roger Kemp M.D.) 12. 09:55 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Jay Land) 13. 10:59 PM - Re: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change (Jan Mevis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:01 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: High Res CJ Formation Pic needed From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" All: We could use one or two high res pics of a CJ formation for EAA Warbird magazine. Nice composition, no clutter, no parts of the photo ship in view, and not a picture from the ground of a formation flying by. Nice air-to-air shot! Good lighting, etc. Please send to me off list at capav8r@gmail.com Thanks to those who submitted CJ and CJ-5/Yak-18 photos already. Thanks, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180010#180010 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:56 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" David, I am far from an expert in this matter, as exhibited by the fact that I can not understand what happened in your particular case. Thanks for sending me the information. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of napeone Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 22:00 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Carb Heat.....yes or no. Yak Mark The exact meteorological conditions were outside airtemp 50F, high humidity. Also included was a prolonged low power descent. Application of carb heat cured the problem. Thank you for your explanation of the workings of a pressure carb. David H. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=179087#179087 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:38 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang From: "skidmk" Hi all,, doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding specs on the chang? anyone? thanks -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:26 PM PST US From: "doug sapp" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk wrote: > > Hi all,, > > doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for > gliding specs on the chang? anyone? > > thanks > > -------- > Mike "Skidmk" Bourget > Ottawa, Ontario > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 > > -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:09 PM PST US From: "Terry Lewis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Doug knows from experience. Believe it! A careful search of the archives seemed to indicate that if you throw your car keys out when the engine quits that is your landing target. Anything else is stretching it . Terry ----- Original Message ----- From: doug sapp To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk wrote: Hi all,, doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding specs on the chang? anyone? thanks -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:27 PM PST US From: Larry Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang When I had an engine out in my cj, it seemed like the glide ratio was 1 to 1. It might be more be more but it sure felt like 1 to 1. Larry -----Original Message----- From: skidmk Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 17:41 Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Hi all,, doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding specs on the chang? anyone? thanks -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:13 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3 the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:16 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon kind of thing. On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way. As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the 180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO MOTOR. In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore! Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee! So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to glide ratios? Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3 the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:17 PM PST US From: Jon Boede Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang I have a friend who's pretty much 100% rotor time... the whole "how do the wings stay on?" thing makes her nervous. Doing any kind of aerobatics bring s loud protests (although a carrier break seems to have become an "approved " maneuver). Power-off gliding seems to be the only "familiar" thing... because with the power off the Chang has the glide ratio of a helicopter in an auto-rotatio n. :-) Jon From: dougsappllc@gmail.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk wrote: Hi all,, doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for g liding specs on the chang? anyone? thanks -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:37 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang And that comes from a man with first hand experience in testing the engine out glide ratio of a rock. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:50 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang Glides like a wet anvil if the prop is not turning. On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:41 PM, skidmk wrote: Hi all,, doing a bit of an aircraft profile for my anywhere map... was looking for gliding specs on the chang? anyone? thanks -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180147#180147 -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:43 PM PST US From: "Roger Kemp M.D." Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change Wanna get your attention on downwind? Pull the throttle a the east Jesus box patten that so many are flying. Then see if you make the runway or not. I'm betting on NOT! If the edge of the runway is not on your wingtip on downwind atleast in the 52 and the 50 to some extent, you are not going to make the runway when you pull your power. To answer your question, I fly an approximate 13 degree Approach in the 50 at 160 Kph. With rolling off the perch at the numbers or just slightly past my aim point on the threshold. That pretty much is how I fly the 52 also but with a steeper nose down approach. Those barn doors hanging out makes it a lot easier. Doc -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:07 PM Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change MALS-14 64E" I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon kind of thing. On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way. As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the 180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO MOTOR. In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore! Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee! So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to glide ratios? Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3 the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change From: Jay Land I had my Examiner during the Commercial check ride say " please no aerobatics on final" as I maneuvered for the dead stick emergency spot landing after a spiral descent from 3500 feet overhead. Basically the CJ comes down like a brick so I acted like a real emergency and kept it high and used all the drag and maneuvering to hit my spot- got a bit aggressive on final I guess but made it work. I've always understood the idea of hitting the far fence at 30 mph rather than the trees in front of the aim point at 80 mph. Bomber patterns don't work in the CJ if the motor quits.... > > As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the > 180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to > the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had > to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER > before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO > MOTOR. > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:07 PM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change I prefer close and high, and always "carrier approach", slipping of what is too much. Unfortunately there are quite some airfields in Europe where you're supposed (urged) to fly a circuit like a big Boeing or Airbus and preferably with a three degree approach on final. So I try to avoid the bigger airfields as much as possible. Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E Sent: woensdag 30 april 2008 5:07 Subject: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang; subject change MALS-14 64E" I have no idea what the glide ratio is for the CJ or YAKS... I'd guess my 50 has one of about 10/1... But that is a pure guess. What I am curious about as well is how most YAK/CJ folk fly their aircraft in the pattern. Now-a-days it seems to me that I see a lot of folks in light civils flying what is commonly known as the "Cross Country Downwind". I mean when you stand there at the airport, it is hard to believe they are still in the Class D airspace at New Bern! Little dots on the horizon kind of thing. On the flip side, I was taught as a youth to always be within gliding range of the runway. My instructor said to me: "Boy, it would be pretty damn embarrassing to crash an airplane at an airport anywhere else than on the runway". Somehow that made sense to me in a weird kind of way. As a Commercial Pilot, my instructor made me practice power off at the 180 approaches. I.E., At the point just opposite to the approach end to the runway on the downwind, the engine was pulled to idle, and you had to land at a point not more than 200 feet past a set point and NEVER before. Slips/Flaps/Gear/Turns to final....all at your choice, but NO MOTOR. In the military of course, we flew a constant turn to touchdown at a very specific AOA, ... AKA "The Carrier Approach". I never really knew how or WHY this came about until I flew a YAK-50. Suddenly the reason for that became perfectly clear. I fly my 50 so close to the runway on downwind that when I go over the tower, they can't see me anymore! Worries the poor SOB's no end, much to my glee! So I am curious to see the consensus. How many people stick in close and high versus wide and at perfect pattern altitude? And what are your thoughts on both...... Which in a way makes sense as being related to glide ratios? Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 22:40 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Gliding range specs for Nanchang I don't remember ever seeing tables on the CJ's gliding distance. You could most likely theoretically work it with known figures like gross weight, airfoil data, and wing area. A bit out of my league. However in playing with my CJ, I found that if I pick a spot on the ground 1/3 the distance in from the wing tip - I can make that spot in a clean glide, with a wind-milling engine. That's for just about any altitude too. NOTE: I have an M-14p with a paddle prop. I suspect the Chinese metal prop would give you a somewhat better glide. Jim "Pappy" Goolsby ________________________________ Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.