Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring (Peter K. Van Staagen)
3. 08:04 AM - Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 08:31 AM - Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring (Peter K. Van Staagen)
5. 08:50 AM - Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 09:08 AM - Promising new GA Fuel (Kurt Howerton)
7. 09:15 AM - Wiring harness? (skidmk)
8. 09:27 AM - Re: Wiring harness? (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
9. 09:39 AM - Aging Aircraft (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: Aging Aircraft (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 10:55 AM - Re: Aging Aircraft (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 11:27 AM - Re: Aging Aircraft (Peter K. Van Staagen)
13. 11:55 AM - Pappy call me (Byron M. Fox)
14. 02:47 PM - Re: Tragic Loss (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Fw: L/D redux (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
16. 04:23 PM - Re: Aging Aircraft (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
17. 05:30 PM - Re: Aging Aircraft (Cpayne)
18. 05:36 PM - Re: Promising new GA Fuel (Cpayne)
19. 06:32 PM - Re: Re: Aging Aircraft (Terry Lewis)
20. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: Aging Aircraft (Richard Goode)
21. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: Aging Aircraft (fish@aviation-tech.com)
22. 08:28 PM - Re: Tragic Loss (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring |
LPS-2 is what I use. You're right, grease could be detrimental. The long
screws that go through the louver itself should also be lubricated at the
ring. Evidence of rust and corrosion can usually be seen around the screw
heads (a brownish-orange color) if the screws have not been lubricated
regularly. Spray the bottom end of the louver where the slotted section
rotates. It is usually easier to do this with the cowling off from behind
the cooling louvers with the louvers closed. Regardless of how you do, it
should be one of the periodic maintenance checks during oil changes. Also
don't forget about the push-pull cable and the ball-socket attachment that
attaches to the control arm of the cooling louvers. The ball-socket can be
flushed out periodically with a high pressure sprayer and mineral spirits or
other suitable solvent and then re-lubricated.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Royden Heays" <heaysr@telus.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
>
> What are your recommendations on lubrication of all those moving parts in
> the gill set in front of the M14P on your Yak 50, 52 or 55. They are a
> very
> high maintenance item on my 55M.
>
> Grease collects dust and makes for a very good rubbing compound. Oil ends
> up
> all over the engine. Fretting is the result of no lubrication. Any
> comments
> welcome.
>
> Royden Heays
> Yak 55M
> C-GRED
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring |
I use ACF-50 on everything and it seems to work great. In fact I think I
would dip my plane in ACF-50 if I could figure out how.
Squatch.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
What are your recommendations on lubrication of all those moving parts in
the gill set in front of the M14P on your Yak 50, 52 or 55. They are a very
high maintenance item on my 55M.
Grease collects dust and makes for a very good rubbing compound. Oil ends up
all over the engine. Fretting is the result of no lubrication. Any comments
welcome.
Royden Heays
Yak 55M
C-GRED
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring |
Pete,
All it takes is money. Then you don't have to worry about figuring out how!
:-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter K. Van Staagen" <petervs@knology.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
> <petervs@knology.net>
>
> I use ACF-50 on everything and it seems to work great. In fact I think I
> would dip my plane in ACF-50 if I could figure out how.
>
> Squatch.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
>
>
> What are your recommendations on lubrication of all those moving parts in
> the gill set in front of the M14P on your Yak 50, 52 or 55. They are a
> very
> high maintenance item on my 55M.
>
> Grease collects dust and makes for a very good rubbing compound. Oil ends
> up
> all over the engine. Fretting is the result of no lubrication. Any
> comments
> welcome.
>
> Royden Heays
> Yak 55M
> C-GRED
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring |
Absolutely!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Pete,
All it takes is money. Then you don't have to worry about figuring out how!
:-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter K. Van Staagen" <petervs@knology.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
> <petervs@knology.net>
>
> I use ACF-50 on everything and it seems to work great. In fact I think I
> would dip my plane in ACF-50 if I could figure out how.
>
> Squatch.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
>
>
> What are your recommendations on lubrication of all those moving parts in
> the gill set in front of the M14P on your Yak 50, 52 or 55. They are a
> very
> high maintenance item on my 55M.
>
> Grease collects dust and makes for a very good rubbing compound. Oil ends
> up
> all over the engine. Fretting is the result of no lubrication. Any
> comments
> welcome.
>
> Royden Heays
> Yak 55M
> C-GRED
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring |
In a message dated 5/8/2008 11:05:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese@elmore.rr.com writes:
You mean we have an alternative to MMO ? !
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Pete,
All it takes is money. Then you don't have to worry about figuring out how!
:-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter K. Van Staagen" <petervs@knology.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
> <petervs@knology.net>
>
> I use ACF-50 on everything and it seems to work great. In fact I think I
> would dip my plane in ACF-50 if I could figure out how.
>
> Squatch.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Royden Heays
> Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:23 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Lubrication of Gills and regulating ring
>
>
> What are your recommendations on lubrication of all those moving parts in
> the gill set in front of the M14P on your Yak 50, 52 or 55. They are a
> very
> high maintenance item on my 55M.
>
> Grease collects dust and makes for a very good rubbing compound. Oil ends
> up
> all over the engine. Fretting is the result of no lubrication. Any
> comments
> welcome.
>
> Royden Heays
> Yak 55M
> C-GRED
>
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Promising new GA Fuel |
If this works out - it would be great. Almost sounds too good to be true.
From Avweb today:
"New GA Fuel Promises Better Range, Lower Cost
"Not only can our fuel seamlessly replace the aviation industry's
standard petroleum fuel [100LL], it can outperform it," says John Rusek,
a professor at Purdue University and co-founder of Swift Enterprises.
The company recently unveiled a new general aviation fuel that it says
will be less expensive, more fuel-efficient and environmentally
friendlier than any on the market. Unlike other alternative fuels, Rusek
said, SwiftFuel is made of synthetic hydrocarbons that are derived from
biomass, and it can provide an effective range greater than 100LL, while
costing about half as much to produce. "Our fuel should not be confused
with first-generation biofuels like E-85 [85 percent ethanol], which
don't compete well right now with petroleum," Rusek said. Patented
technology can produce the 1.8 million gallons per day of fuel used by
GA in the U.S. by using just 5 percent of the existing biofuel plant
infrastructure, the company said.
The synthetic fuel is 15 to 20 percent more fuel-efficient, has no
sulfur emissions, requires no stabilizers, has a 30-degree lower
freezing point than 100LL, introduces no new carbon emissions, and is
lead-free, Rusek said. In addition, he said, the components of the fuel
can be formulated into a replacement for jet/turbine fuels. The company
now is working with the FAA to evaluate the fuel. "
--
Kurt Howerton
N923YK
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
Message 7
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Hi all, was I imagining things or does someone out there have a wiring harness
for the chang? Starting to plan panel upgrades etc..
8)
Skidmk
C-FXMI
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181929#181929
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring harness? |
Contact Barry Hancock at Worldwide Warbirds. Barry has worked on a wiring harness
for the CJ. It was one of the items he mentioned in a recent post that he
provides for the CJ.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181935#181935
Message 9
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After the numerous posts on engine power loss and resulting fatalities and non-fatal
outcomes, it makes me wonder about how we are maintaining our aircraft.
AOPA, Aviation Safety, and the FAA all have recently taken a hard look at this
issue. While not all CJs and Yaks are "older" there could be things we can
learn from reviewing these materials.
In the recent issue of Aviation Safety, it was noted that metal fatigue is not
an age issue, but a how it is used issue. Hence, more g-loading, aerobatics,
etc and the possibility of metal fatigue increases. Importantly, the article
brings up that wiring is a totally different issue and that wiring does wear out
over time.
Interesting to note was the comment form the tear down of aircraft that operated
in Part 135 ops, was that "...fatigue it (ed. NIAR) found was almost universally
instigated by improper maintenance practices and errors in aircraft inspection
and repair. Age alone was not a factor in fatigue damage except that more
inspections and repairs over time meant a greater chance of maintenance errors."
So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power accidents/occurrences, is
there something we should be doing differently as a community when we annual our
aircraft? Any ideas?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=181939#181939
Message 10
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So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power accidents/occurrences,
is there something we should be doing differently as a community when we
annual our aircraft? Any ideas?
Craig
Craig,
If I may suggest, take Dennis Savarese's maintenance course. You will be
well prepared to maintain your Red Star Aircraft in a safe airworthy manor.
His 3 page annual check list will keep you on track. The aircraft
maintenance manual will offer great guidance on how to perform the tech
order. That is if the Chinese were as OCD as the Russians were. It will
pretty much verbatim tell you what to do and when. Not all of us find
reading the maintenance manual a favorite bedtime novel but some like
Dennis, Doug and others have. Having done that, they are light years ahead
of us that just wanna go fly but do periodic maintenance because it is our
rosey pink that is sitting in the pit!
Now the other thing we could do is set up a collective IRAN facility here in
the US, for those of us that live in the US (of course our international
friends could ship their aircraft here for the IRAN since our labor is
cheaper now). Since the US dollar is doing so splendidly on the
international market. It would be cheaper doing it here than shipping them
back across the pond for their IRANS.
Doc
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
Thanks for the "plug" Doc. Actually, for the 52 there's an 18 page annual
condition inspection guide available too.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Aging Aircraft
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>
> So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power
> accidents/occurrences,
> is there something we should be doing differently as a community when we
> annual our aircraft? Any ideas?
>
> Craig
>
> Craig,
> If I may suggest, take Dennis Savarese's maintenance course. You will be
> well prepared to maintain your Red Star Aircraft in a safe airworthy
> manor.
> His 3 page annual check list will keep you on track. The aircraft
> maintenance manual will offer great guidance on how to perform the tech
> order. That is if the Chinese were as OCD as the Russians were. It will
> pretty much verbatim tell you what to do and when. Not all of us find
> reading the maintenance manual a favorite bedtime novel but some like
> Dennis, Doug and others have. Having done that, they are light years ahead
> of us that just wanna go fly but do periodic maintenance because it is our
> rosey pink that is sitting in the pit!
> Now the other thing we could do is set up a collective IRAN facility here
> in
> the US, for those of us that live in the US (of course our international
> friends could ship their aircraft here for the IRAN since our labor is
> cheaper now). Since the US dollar is doing so splendidly on the
> international market. It would be cheaper doing it here than shipping them
> back across the pond for their IRANS.
> Doc
>
>
>
Message 12
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We've augmented a condition inspection checklist and it is now 24 pages.
Some are calling it a restoration checklist, but if you actually do it all
there is no stone left unturned.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Aging Aircraft
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Thanks for the "plug" Doc. Actually, for the 52 there's an 18 page annual
condition inspection guide available too.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Aging Aircraft
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
>
> So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power
> accidents/occurrences,
> is there something we should be doing differently as a community when we
> annual our aircraft? Any ideas?
>
> Craig
>
> Craig,
> If I may suggest, take Dennis Savarese's maintenance course. You will be
> well prepared to maintain your Red Star Aircraft in a safe airworthy
> manor.
> His 3 page annual check list will keep you on track. The aircraft
> maintenance manual will offer great guidance on how to perform the tech
> order. That is if the Chinese were as OCD as the Russians were. It will
> pretty much verbatim tell you what to do and when. Not all of us find
> reading the maintenance manual a favorite bedtime novel but some like
> Dennis, Doug and others have. Having done that, they are light years ahead
> of us that just wanna go fly but do periodic maintenance because it is our
> rosey pink that is sitting in the pit!
> Now the other thing we could do is set up a collective IRAN facility here
> in
> the US, for those of us that live in the US (of course our international
> friends could ship their aircraft here for the IRAN since our labor is
> cheaper now). Since the US dollar is doing so splendidly on the
> international market. It would be cheaper doing it here than shipping them
> back across the pond for their IRANS.
> Doc
>
>
>
Message 13
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Thanks Blitz 415 307 2405
Message 14
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Never thought of the obvious. Thanks Pappy.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 23:29
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tragic Loss
In a message dated 5/7/2008 6:45:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
Its actually fairly easy to check. If you take off the mag cap, you'll
see the rotor. Simply try to turn it. If it turns the woodruff key is
out or the shaft is sheared. With the woodruff key out the gear below
the rotor next to the coil is allowed to spin freely, throwing off the
internal timing of the mag. To see the gear itself, you would have to
remove the mag and than remove that side section that gives you access
to the coil. That gear is right there. You can't see the woodruff key
if the gear is properly mounted.
Pappy
Thanks all for your thoughtful inputs. I have benefited from
reading
your thoughts and experiences.
Doug... My mags were "since new". My engine is a "first run"
and I have
the logs. Your thoughts on mag replacement seems to be very
well
founded. Lesson learned on my part.
Mark Bitterlich
P.s. Interesting thought on the woodruff key as well Pappy. I
am
trying to think how I could check that easily.. But without
removing
that bottom adjustment assy., I can't think how! Can you SEE
it? I am
going home tonight and check!
________________________________
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
________________________________
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites
at AOL Food
<http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001> .
Message 15
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Ok, well we've beat this one to death. :-)
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 23:12
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: L/D redux
> Walt...
>
> I would be glad to take this discussion off line if you would like,
> because I do not want to bore people who are not interested.
>
> Speaking to the "cushioning" effect....
>
> There is a term in camshaft design called overlap. In cams designed
> with overlap, both intake and exhaust valves can be open at the same time.
> Engines with higher degrees of overlap normally do not perform well at
> lower RPM settings. Engines designed with such cams usually have a
> sharply rising HP and Torque curve that maximizes at a designed RPM
> setting. Past that setting, power will actually diminish. Such
> engines normally have a very "lopey" idle, very much like aircraft
> engines, which by and large do the same thing.
The M14P has 45 degs.(crankshaft rotation) of valve overlap. Intake opens at 20
Deg. BTDC and exhaust closes at 25 deg. ATDC.
The R1340 has a total overlap of 57 degs.
Both numbers are at the nominal valve clearance setting.
> That said, during the cycle of exhaust followed by intake, there is
> very little if any "cushion" at the top of the piston's stroke. If
> there was, exhaust gases would actually flow back out the intake
> valve! So, one cycle out of the four at least does not exhibit the
> effect you speak of, if I understand what you are saying correctly?
> Does this make sense to you?
No. I have never heard of an aircraft engine without valve overlap. Even the old
C series Continentals had some. The flow is the other direction even
without supercharging. Overlap clears the combustion chamber of exhaust
gases since the exhaust stroke is essentially finished.
> Further, in a car engine, every time you downshift and let off the
> gas, you are getting the exact same effect as what we are discussing
> with aircraft engines.
>
> I understand completely the issue of main bearing lubrication, which
> by the way the M-14 differs quite a bit in design from American made
> radials, yet that said, I do not think I am qualified enough to
> discuss those loading areas with confidence.
There is some difference but it may be more related to the crankshaft joint design.
Hard to be sure without seeing the actual components.
> So staying with the piston speed // compression // loading issues...
> I think I see now what you are saying, but can you explain why a V-8
> would not suffer a quick death from such reverse loading as
> experienced when downshifting, or ... Going down long mountain grades in a low
gear...
> Etc., etc., yet an aircraft engine doing the exact same thing is "bad
> for it".
No idea. Know dick about car engines.
> Understand that I am not saying: YOU ARE WRONG. I am struggling to
> understand in my mind how it can apply to a piston in one engine and
> not apply to a piston in another.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter
> Lannon
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 0:19
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: L/D redux
>
>
> Mark; See comments below
>
>> --> Point,
>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> Walt would you please explain what you mean by "centrifugal piston
>> loading" ?? I am not a radial engine expert, but I would think the
>> term would be the same, and for the same reasons, as regular V-8
>> racing engines, which I do have a lot of expereince with. In the
>> world I come from, we call it "piston speed", and of course it is
>> related to the stroke and the RPM of the engine. If we are on the
>> same page of music here, the worry with the race engine I work with
>> comes from the exact failure areas you speak of, which is why the
>> emphasis on light weight pistons, and is also why you can easily
>> build a 327 Chevy to turn 9000 RPM, but why there is much more load
>> on a 454 doing the same thing... Longer stroke (and thus higher
>> piston speed) and heavier pistons in the 454. That said, whether the
>> engine is loaded or unloaded in my training does not make any
>> difference. When the piston reaches the end of it's travel and has
>> to reverse direction, there is tremendous forces applied al!
>> l over the place, but piston pin, piston, and rod itself are the
>> biggest areas of concern.
>>
>> To repeat and simplify, the "big force" involved is simply when the
>> piston reaches the top and reverses direction. The more it weighs and
>> the faster it is going when this happens means "more force".
>
> To be honest I was desperately scratching for a descriptive word here
> for the forces you have just described. Maybe sudden deceleration
> would have been better.
>
> I learned about this teaching myself aerobatics in a PT26 with a
> Ranger engine and of course a fixed pitch prop. (In the early 1950's
> there were no aerobatic instructers around, in fact aerobatic seemed
> to be a dirty word).
> To get enough speed for an immellman or hammerhead it was necessary to
> keep reducing power in the dive in order to stay just under red line RPM.
> ( this was not the worlds best aerobatic mount).
>
> Started pulling cylinders due to low compression and found all six
> pistons cracked from the pin bore. Turned out to be an early model
> engine that did not incorporate piston pin plugs. The pins were being
> deformed by the force reversal causing the pistons to fail.
>
>
>> What I fail to understand is why this force would be larger or
>> smaller when the engine is producing power, or not producing power?
>
> I think the reason is manifold pressure or maybe more accurately brake
> mean effective pressure (BMEP). The piston is "cushioned" on the
> compression/power cycle by combustion forces and on the exhaust/intake
> cycle by exhaust expulsion and, just before the piston reaches TDC,
> the input of pressurized air/fuel mixture from the manifold.
>
> With the larger radial engines an excess of manifold pressure (over
> square) is necessary to provide this cushion. As an example the P&W
> R1340 numbers are - T.O. (600 HP) 2250RPM & 36"MP, 5 min limit -
> Rated Power
> (550HP) 2200 RPM & 32.5" MP, no limit - Typical cruise setting - (55%-
> 300HP) 1800 RPM & 26"MP.
>
> Jim Goolsby sent a very informative post on this subject with an
> insert from Mr. R Sohn describing the effect of these forces on the
> master rod bearing if the "cushion" is not maintained.
> I believe he is absolutely correct.
>
>
>> Could you please explain what you mean by: "if you run significantly
>> reduced power at the max. RPM for any length of time there is the
>> possibility of damage due to the increased centrifugal loading of the
>> piston and pin."
>>
>> What increased loading are you talking about assuming the engine is
>> still running under maximum RPM limits? Why is there more loading
>> with power off, than power on?
>
> Covered above, I think.
>
>
> The M14P is impressive. Even with the very small piston the load
> reversal at 2900 RPM must be awesome. That it would stand up to
> handling the throttle like an ON- Off switch is mind boggling.
>
> Aside for Pappy from a P&W devotee;
> The reason the R1830 has a smaller master rod bearing is because it
> has TWO of them and much smaller pistons flailing around.
>
> Cheers,
> Walt
>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter
>> Lannon
>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 22:55
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: L/D redux
>>
>>
>> You all are getting me confused! High RPM, low MP, overspeed??,
>> contact points for the master rod bearing??, direct drive, geared
>> drive. Where to
>> begin---------
>>
>> At some point on approach you will reduce the power and, if you
>> follow standard practice, will move the prop control to High RPM. If
>> you have reduced power enough you will not see any RPM increase
>> because the governor has sensed an underspeed condition and has
>> already moved the blades to full fine.
>> The only reason for moving the prop control is to set up for a
>> possible emergency go-around.
>> Therefore the prop is always in the highest drag condition on a
>> normal landing.
>>
>> There can be no "overspeed" since with increasing power the governor
>> will limit RPM to the max. setting. However, if you run
>> significantly reduced power at the max. RPM for any length of time
>> there is the possibility of damage due to the increased centrifugal
>> loading of the piston and pin.
>> That is the primary reason for avoiding that scenario.
>>
>> There is no such thing as a "contact point" on the master rod
>> bearing, unless it is totally worn out and nearing failure. That is
>> the function of oil. It's main purpose is to ensure there is NO contact.
>>
>> The master rod bearing (and the inner bearing end of each link rod)
>> is pressure lubricated from the crank journal cavity on ALL radial engines.
>> Whether geared or direct drive makes zero difference in this area.
>>
>> It is possible that the M14 is more tolerant of centrifugal piston
>> loading than P&W or Curtis Wright engines simply due to the small
>> piston size.
>>
>> Cheers;
>> Walt
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 2:42 PM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: L/D redux
>>
>>
>>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> Brian,
>>> Thanks for enlightening me. I was not thinking about the direct
>>> drive of the P&Ws verses the geared drive of the M-14. Don't quote
>>> me but I believe the
>>> M-14 master crank rod bearing has its own oil journal. I ran across
>>> that as I was researching the oil supply of the prop governor for an
>>> engine vibration occurring right at Vref.
>>> It can be found in the diagrams of the M-14 engine manual.
>>> Doc
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>>> Lloyd
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2008 11:32 AM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Fw: L/D redux
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 3, 2008, at 5:32 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:
>>>
>>>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com
>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Jerry,
>>>> I thought that by pushing the pitch to full forward on the prop at
>>>> cruise manifold setting ( 600-750-800) and then pulling the MAP
>>>> back to use the prop as a speed brake would put you at risk for
>>>> over speeding the engine?
>>>
>>> Not if your prop governor is working properly.
>>>
>>>> Now you have set up a situation where the prop is driving the
>>>> engine not the engine driving the prop. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Yes, that is the case. But remember, when the RPM increases above
>>> the set-point, the governor will drive the prop toward course pitch
>>> (lower RPM). This reduces the angle-of-attack on the prop blades and
>>> they will produce less lift (turning force). It is also why you get
>>> a longer glide with the prop set to low RPM -- the prop is not
>>> taking as much energy from the airframe to turn the engine.
>>>
>>>> The translated 1990 RU manual that I have says for approaches set
>>>> the pitch at 80% and 400 mmHG on the advance (MAP lever)for the 52.
>>>> I generally fly 70% and 400 mmHg or less (MAP) in the 50 as needed.
>>>> I know at times being at say 70-80% and 750-800 mmHG chasing down
>>>> someone (lead or an
>>>> adversary) then
>>>> pulling the MAP lever to idle to avoid overshoot is like having a
>>>> big speed brake out there! The but is in the huge change in pitch
>>>> of the engine. I always wondered if I was overstressing the
>>>> reduction gears or the shaft itself. Honestly I would rather go
>>>> idle boards (deploy the speed
>>>> brakes)
>>>> than use my engine as the speed brake.
>>>
>>> Well, think about it Roger. Do you think that the prop can generate
>>> more torque turning the engine or the engine generate more torque
>>> turning the prop? I think you will find that the torque is at its
>>> peak when the engine is producing maximum power. That means that the
>>> overall stresses on the gearbox will be less when the power is
>>> pulled back.
>>>
>>>> I know a couple of old 17 drivers along with a 47 driver and T-28
>>>> driver/maintenance officer at the airport. I will ask then their
>>>> take today at our fly-in. If the weather permits!
>>>
>>> Now here is something you need to be careful about. You cannot
>>> assume that the M14 or Huosai should be operated the same way that
>>> the big Pratts and Wrights should be operated. As I understand it,
>>> the crank on the Pratts and Wrights have just one oil journal and it
>>> feeds oil to the contact point for the master rod bearing when the
>>> rod is turning the crank. When the prop is turning the crank then
>>> the crank is turning the master rod which changes the contact point.
>>> This can lead to under-lubrication of the master rod bearing. That
>>> is why they admonish you to never let the prop drive the engine in
>>> the Wrights and Pratts.
>>>
>>> So that brings up the question of how the M14 and Huosai engines get
>>> oil to the master rod bearing. If there are oil journals to ensure
>>> proper lubrication of the master rod bearing when the prop is
>>> turning the engine then there is no reason to worry about doing
>>> damage to the engine when you pull the throttle back to idle. Given
>>> that the M14 is intended for aerobatic use, I suspect it *does* have
>>> proper lubrication when the prop is driving the engine, hence the
>>> lack of an warnings about the prop driving the engine in the manuals.
>>>
>>> But this is only supposition on my part. Only someone who really
>>> knows the engine can tell for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
>>> brian HYPHEN 1927 AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>>> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>>
>>> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>>> - Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>>>
>>> PGP key ID: 12095C52A32A1B6C
>>> PGP key fingerprint: 3B1D BA11 4913 3254 B6E0 CC09 1209 5C52 A32A
>>> 1B6C
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
Guys, thanks for the reply.
On further reading in Aviation Safety and FAA docs, the concept of a Super Annual
is recommended. Many of the type clubs have adopted this policy. While Dennis
has provided a document for the 52 (that has been supplemented to 24 pages),
I know of no such document for the CJ.
In addition, the Super Annual concept requires there to be data kept on the replacement
intervals between parts so preventive maintenance can be done. For instance,
when a mag is changed out, a type club is notified of when and how much
in service time the mag has. This way a repository of data on major components
of the aircraft can be kept.
This data would be useful for PM as it may be able to predict failure of some components.
In my opinion, the RPA as out type club would be the perfect organization
to do this.
With hard facts, the timing between Super Annuals and "regular annuals" can be
determined.
Any additional thought from the community on this?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182028#182028
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
The General Condition inspection may be the rule, but another practice is to follow
the mfgr's guidelines for specific intervals on parts/systems. I believe
the Best practice is to use a combination of those as well as the way the A/C
is used. As in frequent hard acro? Long periods of sitting idle in the hanger?
Hot and humid ops? etc.
I have updated and corrected the old Yak Club annual checklist and it is available
under Manuals in the RPA store. The checklist is merely a way to track progress,
the real how-to is in the manuals. Also see the specific procedures outlined
in in tech articles also in the store.
Having an aging brain in a still-healthy body is challenging so my best practice
is to write down everything i do to the airplane. What is in the logs is merely
an abstract. I keep detailed notes in folders documenting what I did so that
I can review it all before both my annual and mid-year annual.
Now I did buy some Smart Pills to improve my memory, but I can't seem to remember
where I put them....
Craig Payne
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Promising new GA Fuel |
Half the cost and just as good? I'll take 1000 gallons now, please send the truck,
I'll pay cash on arrival.
Craig Payne
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
Craig.
I believe I gave you such a document that was compiled by Bud Harold for the
CJ . About six pages.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Aging Aircraft
> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>
> Guys, thanks for the reply.
>
> On further reading in Aviation Safety and FAA docs, the concept of a Super
> Annual is recommended. Many of the type clubs have adopted this policy.
> While Dennis has provided a document for the 52 (that has been
> supplemented to 24 pages), I know of no such document for the CJ.
>
> In addition, the Super Annual concept requires there to be data kept on
> the replacement intervals between parts so preventive maintenance can be
> done. For instance, when a mag is changed out, a type club is notified of
> when and how much in service time the mag has. This way a repository of
> data on major components of the aircraft can be kept.
>
> This data would be useful for PM as it may be able to predict failure of
> some components. In my opinion, the RPA as out type club would be the
> perfect organization to do this.
>
> With hard facts, the timing between Super Annuals and "regular annuals"
> can be determined.
>
> Any additional thought from the community on this?
>
> Craig
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182028#182028
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
I think that few Western owners of Yaks would want to follow the official
maintenance instructions for Yak aircraft.
For the 52 this involves a TOTAL disassembly and rebuild as a new aircraft
every 600 hours.
Of course their use was very arduous in a way that very few,if any,are used
in the West.
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cpayne" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 5:56 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Aging Aircraft
>
> The General Condition inspection may be the rule, but another practice is
> to follow the mfgr's guidelines for specific intervals on parts/systems. I
> believe the Best practice is to use a combination of those as well as the
> way the A/C is used. As in frequent hard acro? Long periods of sitting
> idle in the hanger? Hot and humid ops? etc.
>
> I have updated and corrected the old Yak Club annual checklist and it is
> available under Manuals in the RPA store. The checklist is merely a way to
> track progress, the real how-to is in the manuals. Also see the specific
> procedures outlined in in tech articles also in the store.
>
> Having an aging brain in a still-healthy body is challenging so my best
> practice is to write down everything i do to the airplane. What is in the
> logs is merely an abstract. I keep detailed notes in folders documenting
> what I did so that I can review it all before both my annual and mid-year
> annual.
>
> Now I did buy some Smart Pills to improve my memory, but I can't seem to
> remember where I put them....
>
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the http://www.invictawiz.com
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aging Aircraft |
Craig,
I brought up the issue of tracking maintenance and failures,
several years ago at All Red Star to Pappy and Berry. The
idea was rejected as being to time consuming with no one to
collalate the info. My reply was if we do not do it, we will
eventually be in the same boat as the T-34 owners trying to
prove our aircraft are safe to fly.
If we start collating data now, when the FAA attemps to
ground us like the T-34's, we would have the data to refute
them. We could also come up with more realistic times for
parts replacement (we all know the Russian/Chineese times
are conservative), based on hard data.
There is currently a good article in April 2008, Sport
Aviation on calulating component failure rates.
Fly Safe
John Fischer
Yak-52, N213YA
California City, CA
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Aging Aircraft
> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>
> Guys, thanks for the reply.
>
> On further reading in Aviation Safety and FAA docs, the
> concept of a Super Annual is recommended. Many of the
> type clubs have adopted this policy. While Dennis has
> provided a document for the 52 (that has been supplemented
> to 24 pages), I know of no such document for the CJ.
>
> In addition, the Super Annual concept requires there to be
> data kept on the replacement intervals between parts so
> preventive maintenance can be done. For instance, when a
> mag is changed out, a type club is notified of when and
> how much in service time the mag has. This way a
> repository of data on major components of the aircraft can
> be kept.
>
> This data would be useful for PM as it may be able to
> predict failure of some components. In my opinion, the
> RPA as out type club would be the perfect organization to
> do this.
>
> With hard facts, the timing between Super Annuals and
> "regular annuals" can be determined.
>
> Any additional thought from the community on this?
>
> Craig
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182028#182028
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
Message 22
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A caution note here folks.
If you are able to rotate the rotor through an angle of about 10 to 12 degs. and
it returns to original position on release don't go yanking the mag.
You have an auto advance magneto type M9, M9-25M, M9-35M (which will turn a little
further) or a Chinese CD-5.
These are not standard for the M14P (should be M9F) but there may be some out there
replacing the original fixed spark M9F. I know of at least one such M14P.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Tragic Loss
In a message dated 5/7/2008 6:45:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.bitterlich@navy.mil
writes:
Its actually fairly easy to check. If you take off the mag cap, you'll see the
rotor. Simply try to turn it. If it turns the woodruff key is out or the
shaft is sheared. With the woodruff key out the gear below the rotor next to
the coil is allowed to spin freely, throwing off the internal timing of the mag.
To see the gear itself, you would have to remove the mag and than remove that
side section that gives you access to the coil. That gear is right there.
You can't see the woodruff key if the gear is properly mounted.
Pappy
Thanks all for your thoughtful inputs. I have benefited from reading
your thoughts and experiences.
Doug... My mags were "since new". My engine is a "first run" and I have
the logs. Your thoughts on mag replacement seems to be very well
founded. Lesson learned on my part.
Mark Bitterlich
P.s. Interesting thought on the woodruff key as well Pappy. I am
trying to think how I could check that easily.. But without removing
that bottom adjustment assy., I can't think how! Can you SEE it? I am
going home tonight and check!
________________________________
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
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