Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:24 AM - Re: Radios for sale? (Andrew Love)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Looking to buy Yak-52 (Ira Saligman)
3. 06:23 AM - NOS M-14Ps (Jill Gernetzke)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: New M-14P wanted (Roger Kemp)
5. 07:58 AM - Yak -52's for sale (Jerry Painter)
6. 07:59 AM - -52's again (Jerry Painter)
7. 08:04 AM - Re: Is it me or do they ever so slightly resemble YAKs? (skidmk)
8. 08:44 AM - M14P Pricing and availability (Richard Goode)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: M14P Pricing and availability (fish@aviation-tech.com)
10. 02:05 PM - Re: New M-14P wanted (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 04:48 PM - Re: New M-14P wanted (Roger Kemp MD)
12. 06:24 PM - Yak 55M aileron (Frederick van Rooyen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Radios for sale? |
Hi Doc,
Thanks for your advice on this one. Got a couple of possibles already. And
thanks to the other replies I had too.
cheers
Andrew Love PilotJAG Air LtdQueenstown
New Zealand www.jagair.co.nz
P +64 3 442 3177 I F +64 3 4423176 I M +64 21 8
18 816
From: viperdoc@mindspring.comTo: yak-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Yak-Lis
t: Radios for sale?Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:08:16 -0500
Hi Scott,
I=92m confused=85thought I sent the wlacrussianeng.co link to Andrew Love i
n AU. That url is a source of YAK parts that I use when I can=92t get them
here in the US.
Before saying the following, here is the disclaimer: =93 I am not a broker,
importer, or maintainer of Red Star Aircraft. I maintain my own aircraft i
n my own hanger. I do get assistance when needed or mandated by FAA regulat
ion. This being said, the following are two known YAK refurbishers/ re-sale
rs across the pond that I know people have had favorable dealings with, my
self included. Those were for parts I needed. I=92ve had a protracted time
dealing with Liutaraus @ Anabaras in Li. That was over some issues with my
52 concerning the engine. He eventually made that right. He replaced the en
gine and I paid him what he requested as compensation for that.
I am not disparaging Aeroconcept or anyone else for that matter that sells
or refurbishs YAK aircraft in the world.
So much for the TMFI with the disclaimer.
So:
Try the Termikus website (www.termikus.com) or Rob Rowe or Mark Jefferies i
n the UK (www.yakuk.com )( I think) for YAKS for sale across the pond. I=92
m not aware of any available in the US currently. Jerry Painter (?) I belie
ve had or has a TW for sale up in Oregan or is it Washington State? If you
are interested in a YAK-50, talk to Dave Hilker in KS. Contact me off list
for that contact info if interested.
Thanks,
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of SD737@aol.comSent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 10:24 PMT
o: yak-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Yak-List: Radios for sale?
Hi Doc,
Pete Taylor is the friend who is interested in a Yak-52.
I went to the website http://www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk/ that you forwarded t
o me, but no Yak-52's listed for sale.
Thanks for your help,
Scott
Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Get inspired - dream, research, plan and book your next holiday online with
MSN NZ Travel
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Looking to buy Yak-52 |
I am planning to sell my 52TW, I will place add in the usual websites but
the basics are a 2003 52TW, 250 hrs, 74 gal fuel, MT 3 blade, Garmin 430,
327 xponder, 340 com, 106A GLideslope, Cleveland brakes. Battery has been
moved fwd, and several other mods.
Ira
o 610 940 0420
c 610 324 5500
f 215 243 7699
<mailto:isaligman@Saligman.com> isaligman@Saligman.com
Message 3
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Gang,
The engine on eBay is tis not priced out of line. The last five
engines I've sold have gone overseas. The last new, old stock engine
in Russia was not even offered to me because the seller wanted $44k
over there. That does not include, shipping, customs or any markup.
If I told you that engines would be available in Russia - NEW - in
January 2009, the price would be $44K plus shipping and customs, I
would ask for a 5% fee, and the product would need to be paid in
advance, how many of you would place an order? (I typically tie up
cash for 10 - 20 engines and then ship them over.) As things go, you
might likely have to wait 6 months - year beyond January 2009. Still
interested? I have historically not taken customer money until I have
the product in hand. That is assuming a lot of risk. Some days I
think it would be easier to write a cloak and daggers novel about this
whole business and not worry about when parts will arrive or if the
wire transfer has gotten to its destination, etc but I actually love
what I do.
I have not been offered any M-14Ps in 6 months. The supply is down to
a trickle. For those of you who were long-term thinkers and had the
cash, you bought a spare engine. For those of you that didn't, you are
blessed with a finely engineered piece of equipment that will provide
you with many hours of reliable flying if you take care of it.
I have six overhauled engines on the shelf for sale. No replacement
stock for the next 6 months, at least.
Jill
Message 4
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| Subject: | New M-14P wanted |
Mark,
I'm afraid the M-14P good deals went away a couple of years ago.That price is pretty
much in line with the rise in the EU and the fall of the US Dollar.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2008 12:03 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>
>They must think engine prices go up with gas prices as well.
>
>32 grand is in the ballpark for a PF, but not a P, not in my opinion
>anyway.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter K. Van
>Staagen
>Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:37 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> <petervs@knology.net>
>
>There is a new old stock M14-P on Ebay, starting bid of $32,000 with no
>bids. That price makes me want to part out my Yak. Doesn't say if it is
>Russian.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME
>%3AB
>%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=160254017228
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of radiopicture
>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:27 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>
>In search of first-run Russian (not Romanian), zero time (new-pickled in
>crate) M-14P.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189472#189472
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Yak -52's for sale |
Hey Craig--thanks for the plug! Actually I have THREE -52's for sale: an
86 ($65K), a '96 ($85K) and a 2001 -52TW ($125K). Plus lots more! Come and
get 'em!
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 6
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Ah, no, Craig, no gear up.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Is it me or do they ever so slightly resemble YAKs? |
actually,, I was thinking they looked like Bandit, daBear, and Skidmk,,, very handsome
in their tight fitting flight suits [Laughing]
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189563#189563
Message 8
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| Subject: | M14P Pricing and availability |
M14P Pricing and availability
I am sure that people consider me biased because I am in the business of
selling engines.
However I see the issues as being:
a.. A conventional market is balanced by having approximately equal
amounts of supply and demand.
b.. The M14P market is extremely unconventional, in that it began in
the early nineties with large supplies of both unused engines and
factory zero-timed ones available in Russia and other parts of Eastern
Europe.
c.. The last genuine new serial production engine was made in 1994.
Since then small numbers have been made from previously manufactured
forgings/castings/sub-assemblies etc.
d.. The market was for a long time stabilised by the engines from
Shadetree, who had about 120 unused but old stock engines. I think
that I am right in saying that the last was sold about two years ago,
and for about US $28,000. Of course these were genuine engines; known
history; properly conserved and stored.
e.. For the last 12 or so years, the worldwide Yak and Sukhoi
community (600 plus aircraft) have been slowly working their way through
an existing stock of engines that were bought cheaply which represented
fantastic value. Inevitably, as the supply dwindles the price will go
up.
f.. We then have homebuilt aircraft - my estimate is that there are a
good 300 Pitts-12; Moose etc aircraft being built, and all of course
needing engines.
g.. The other factor to consider is that in most parts of the world,
except the US, we have to observe factory TBOs. That is 750 hours for
a new M14P and 500 hours if it is in a single seat aircraft, or after
overhaul. This means that we have to change what appear to be perfectly
good engines when these times are reached.
h.. As I have previously said, the Voronezh Mechanical Plant are
currently making 100 new engines for a Russian Ministry of Transport
contract. These engines are being sold at US $62,000 each. OK, it is a
government contract; no one worries about prices, but that figure is now
in the minds of the Russians, and it is not easy to dissuade the old
Soviet mentality that runs this factory.
i.. What is the price of a factory new geared and supercharged
Lycoming / Continental? US$60,000? Also Russian manufacturing is
desperately inefficient, and while they will benefit from low wage costs
and material costs (although both of these are dramatically increasing)
factory inefficiencies put prices up considerably.
j.. Then we have currency fluctuations - no one needs telling that the
US $ has dropped compared with virtually all currencies, and including,
by a significant amount, the Russian Rouble. This in itself will
increase the price of anything coming from Europe or Eastern Europe into
the US market. It was US 95 cents to a Euro now US $1.55.
k.. The simple fact is that there are virtually no genuine; properly
conserved and stored new but "old stock" engines left. I have always
bought any that I have found (we have sold over ninety of these in the
last fifteen years), and the most recent one that I have bought was
about a year ago - and I still have not been able to get it out of
Russia due to Putin's export controls which have absolutely paralysed
everything that is aviation-related.
l.. If the engine at US $32,000 is good - I do not think that is a bad
price, and I suspect that those who laugh at it today might well be
kicking themselves for not buying it in three years time.
m.. Our zero-timed engines come from Vedeneyev themselves, and, I am
sure we are not considered to be cheap. I am no economist but the
problem with the unpredictability of this market is not the price that I
have paid for an engine, but the price that I will have to pay to
replace it!
n.. Of course, with increasing prices, there becomes more and more
scope for enterprising companies to overhaul engines.
o.. Obviously good companies like Barrett; Carl Hays are working on
this, but the real problem is that the Russians have always closely
guarded all overhaul paperwork, but more importantly the supply of major
components which one really does need to perform proper overhauls. Of
course these can be made, but at huge cost.
In my humble view, the good news is that M14P engine supply and
overhauls will continue. The bad news is that I am sure that prices
will continue to go up, and believe me I would be far happier if they
did not and the market was stable!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Pricing and availability |
Richard,
Reading between the lines, engines should still be relativy
cheap here in the US. My reasoning for this is, if you have
to replace your engines at low times. We can still use them
in as removed condition here!
Where the kink would come from, is engines being returned
overseas to use for overhaul. So the questions is are we
going through enough engines to continue to supply cores to
Europe for rebuild?
I would envision an evolving supply line would go something
like, Europians purchase a New/rebult engine and run for
500-700 Hours. Then sell the engine to someone here (with
500-700 hrs on it), we run it to runout. We then use it for
a core when purchasing an engine from someone in Europe
(when purchasing a 500-700 hr eng), who then trades it in as
a core for a new rebuild.
On the flip side, I have said for years that prices would be
going up and we will eventually start building parts here
for our aircraft. Some parts (Say Carbs, cases, ect) will be
rebuilt. But new cylinders/pistons, Rings, ect; with enough
demand will be manufactured here.
Anouther option is for someone to attempt to change the TBO
required. This would most easily be done in Russia/Romaina
then in each country in Europe (I beleive also Canada and
Australia). This would have the effect of reducing demand,
helping to keep prices down.
Fly Safe
John Fischer
Yak-52, N213YA
California City, CA
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Subject: Yak-List: M14P Pricing and availability
> M14P Pricing and availability
>
> I am sure that people consider me biased because I am in
> the business of selling engines.
>
> However I see the issues as being:
>
> a.. A conventional market is balanced by having
> approximately equal amounts of supply and demand.
> b.. The M14P market is extremely unconventional, in that
> it began in the early nineties with large supplies of both
> unused engines and factory zero-timed ones available in
> Russia and other parts of Eastern Europe.
> c.. The last genuine new serial production engine was
> made in 1994. Since then small numbers have been made
> from previously manufactured
> forgings/castings/sub-assemblies etc.
> d.. The market was for a long time stabilised by the
> engines from Shadetree, who had about 120 unused but old
> stock engines. I think that I am right in saying that
> the last was sold about two years ago, and for about US
> $28,000. Of course these were genuine engines; known
> history; properly conserved and stored.
> e.. For the last 12 or so years, the worldwide Yak and
> Sukhoi community (600 plus aircraft) have been slowly
> working their way through an existing stock of engines
> that were bought cheaply which represented fantastic
> value. Inevitably, as the supply dwindles the price will
> go up.
> f.. We then have homebuilt aircraft - my estimate is
> that there are a good 300 Pitts-12; Moose etc aircraft
> being built, and all of course needing engines.
> g.. The other factor to consider is that in most parts
> of the world, except the US, we have to observe factory
> TBOs. That is 750 hours for a new M14P and 500 hours if
> it is in a single seat aircraft, or after overhaul. This
> means that we have to change what appear to be perfectly
> good engines when these times are reached.
> h.. As I have previously said, the Voronezh Mechanical
> Plant are currently making 100 new engines for a Russian
> Ministry of Transport contract. These engines are being
> sold at US $62,000 each. OK, it is a government contract;
> no one worries about prices, but that figure is now in the
> minds of the Russians, and it is not easy to dissuade the
> old Soviet mentality that runs this factory.
> i.. What is the price of a factory new geared and
> supercharged Lycoming / Continental? US$60,000? Also
> Russian manufacturing is desperately inefficient, and
> while they will benefit from low wage costs and material
> costs (although both of these are dramatically increasing)
> factory inefficiencies put prices up considerably.
> j.. Then we have currency fluctuations - no one needs
> telling that the US $ has dropped compared with virtually
> all currencies, and including, by a significant amount,
> the Russian Rouble. This in itself will increase the
> price of anything coming from Europe or Eastern Europe
> into the US market. It was US 95 cents to a Euro now US
> $1.55.
> k.. The simple fact is that there are virtually no
> genuine; properly conserved and stored new but "old stock"
> engines left. I have always bought any that I have found
> (we have sold over ninety of these in the last fifteen
> years), and the most recent one that I have bought was
> about a year ago - and I still have not been able to get
> it out of Russia due to Putin's export controls which have
> absolutely paralysed everything that is aviation-related.
> l.. If the engine at US $32,000 is good - I do not think
> that is a bad price, and I suspect that those who laugh at
> it today might well be kicking themselves for not buying
> it in three years time.
> m.. Our zero-timed engines come from Vedeneyev
> themselves, and, I am sure we are not considered to be
> cheap. I am no economist but the problem with the
> unpredictability of this market is not the price that I
> have paid for an engine, but the price that I will have to
> pay to replace it!
> n.. Of course, with increasing prices, there becomes
> more and more scope for enterprising companies to overhaul
> engines.
> o.. Obviously good companies like Barrett; Carl Hays are
> working on this, but the real problem is that the Russians
> have always closely guarded all overhaul paperwork, but
> more importantly the supply of major components which one
> really does need to perform proper overhauls. Of course
> these can be made, but at huge cost. In my humble view,
> the good news is that M14P engine supply and overhauls
> will continue. The bad news is that I am sure that
> prices will continue to go up, and believe me I would be
> far happier if they did not and the market was stable!
>
> Richard Goode Aerobatics
> Rhodds Farm
> Lyonshall
> Herefordshire
> HR5 3LW
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
> www.russianaeros.com
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | New M-14P wanted |
OK! I stand corrected. So I guess my spare M-14P with 70 hours on it's
first rebuild, done in Russia with logbooks on hand is now worth about
20K right?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
Mark,
I'm afraid the M-14P good deals went away a couple of years ago.That
price is pretty much in line with the rise in the EU and the fall of the
US Dollar.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2008 12:03 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>They must think engine prices go up with gas prices as well.
>
>32 grand is in the ballpark for a PF, but not a P, not in my opinion
>anyway.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter K. Van
>Staagen
>Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:37 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> <petervs@knology.net>
>
>There is a new old stock M14-P on Ebay, starting bid of $32,000 with no
>bids. That price makes me want to part out my Yak. Doesn't say if it is
>Russian.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADM
>E
>%3AB
>%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=160254017228
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of radiopicture
>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:27 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
>
>In search of first-run Russian (not Romanian), zero time (new-pickled
>in
>crate) M-14P.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189472#189472
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | New M-14P wanted |
Its probably worth what ever you can get for it in this current environment.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
OK! I stand corrected. So I guess my spare M-14P with 70 hours on it's
first rebuild, done in Russia with logbooks on hand is now worth about
20K right?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
Mark,
I'm afraid the M-14P good deals went away a couple of years ago.That
price is pretty much in line with the rise in the EU and the fall of the
US Dollar.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
><mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2008 12:03 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>They must think engine prices go up with gas prices as well.
>
>32 grand is in the ballpark for a PF, but not a P, not in my opinion
>anyway.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter K. Van
>Staagen
>Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:37 AM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> <petervs@knology.net>
>
>There is a new old stock M14-P on Ebay, starting bid of $32,000 with no
>bids. That price makes me want to part out my Yak. Doesn't say if it is
>Russian.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADM
>E
>%3AB
>%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=160254017228
>
>Pete
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of radiopicture
>Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 8:27 PM
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: New M-14P wanted
>
>--> <eric@buffaloskyline.com>
>
>In search of first-run Russian (not Romanian), zero time (new-pickled
>in
>crate) M-14P.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189472#189472
>
>
Message 12
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Urgently need a left aileron for a Yak 55M. Anybody know of one for sale?
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