Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - NOW: Dead Horse WAS: Required crewmember (Russ)
2. 07:09 AM - MSP Aquatenial Fly over (kingcj6@aol.com)
3. 01:33 PM - SBM, OSH, etc. (Jill Gernetzke)
4. 04:01 PM - Re: Required crewmember (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 07:52 PM - !st Day (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 08:09 PM - Re: !st Day (Jim Selby)
Message 1
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| Subject: | NOW: Dead Horse WAS: Required crewmember |
The smell of the caress is reaching KETB & KOSH as are some of the planes
participating in our BIG SHOW!
To quote a US President
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the
government and I'm here to help. - Ronald Reagan
Message 2
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| Subject: | MSP Aquatenial Fly over |
I'm in Minneapolis on business and was watching the downtown parade at
8:30 last night when a 4-ship of 52's passed over in a perfect diamond.
Who provided the entertainment??
Message 3
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Group,
I wanted to wish all of you safe travels, tons of flying fun and a very
memorable Oshkosh! I will be back at the shop and helping anyone in
need throughout the week. (928-681-4400)
Jill
M-14P, Incorporated
4905 Flightline Drive
Kingman, AZ 86401 -7417
(928)-681-4400
Fax(928)681-4404
www.m-14p.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Required crewmember |
No comment.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp MD
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Required crewmember
--> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
What Air Force/ Army was it that I saw in a a 2 piece flight suit
lately? It was probably the Army. To nomex or not...at least on top that
is!
Now how do you address half a nomex suit?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve and
donna hanshew
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:08 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Required crewmember
<dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
awesome.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Lewis" <talew@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Required crewmember
>
> Hi,
> Does anyone want to discuss the need for flight suits at this time
:>). Or
> should we save it for a less busy time ?
> Terry Lewis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:01 PM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Required crewmember
>
>
>>
>> Mark, I have always respected your posts but your understanding of
the
>> conditions that change when a waiver of established FARS is
"approved"
>> needs some enlightenment.
>>
>> You were right that the Airboss can request anything they want.
>> However, ICAS and the FAA have both formulated conditions (mutually
>> agreed) that prudently are not ever requested by any trained Airboss.
>> Attempting to sneak individuals into a Warbird flying during an
approved
>> waiver period is one of them. If the operating limitations of the
>> aircraft requires a crewman, then it is approved. GIBs are usually
not
>> listed in those written stipulations.
>>
>> There are several opportunities to fly into and over OSH during
periods
>> not under waiver. Once the Waiver period is triggered for airspeed,
>> altitude and other conditions - then good luck with any reasoning of
>> sneaking passengers. The FED monitors are "On the Hook". ICAS
requires
>> Air Ops training, the FAA requires specific guidelines under their
>> Operations Inspector Manual. This is really a moot point. Ramstein
AFB
>> resolved this issue in the summer of 1987.
>>
>> Good luck with your application for a new waiver condition.
>>
>> John Cox
>> ICAS trained and former producer of airshows (with a dozen waivers
with
>> my signature on them)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
>> Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:45 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Required crewmember
>>
>> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>> David,
>>
>> This quote: "For civilian aircraft, only required flight crewmembers
>> (specified in aircraft operating limitations)" commonly appears in a
lot
>> of actual Experimental Exhibition category aircraft. It then goes on
to
>> say: "can fly in this aircraft". So forget Airshows for a moment.
>> Explain how we can put ANY "guy in back"? If we do put a person in
>> back, with the actual aircraft operating limitations that have just
been
>> quoted, then we are telling the world that the GIB is indeed required
>> flight crew.
>>
>> When the same exact wording is then used again in a specific waiver
for
>> something else, how can you then turn around and say that the GIB is
now
>> NOT "a required crew member"?
>>
>> I guess the answer is that when flying around at the local airport,
we
>> manage to bullshit everyone, or ignore the rule. However at the
>> Airshow... We can't... Too many people watching.
>>
>> Next.
>>
>> Yes, your para."e" was obviously taken off of a specific waiver for a
>> specific activity. However my request for a reference dealt with the
>> issue that the FAA required FAST cards. Your quote has nothing to do
>> with that, and without the whole waiver, it is out of context. If
you
>> could....... please send me the whole waiver off line.
>>
>> And according to what is now being said on this subject, I have
another
>> question. Does the B-24 require two pilots to fly it? If so, then
>> Pappy can not be the only FAST rated person aboard. His co-pilot
would
>> have to be too. See? Look how much we're learning here! Look out
>> Pappy!
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
McGirt
>> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:44 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Required crewmember
>>
>>
>> " e. For civilian aircraft, only required flight crewmembers
(specified
>> in aircraft operating limitations) or those persons actively
>> participating in the demonstration (wingwalkers and stunt persons,
etc.)
>> will be carried on any aircraft engaged in demonstrations authorized
by
>> this waiver. "
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/21/08 9:19 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
>> 64E"
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>>
>>> --> Point,
>>> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You said: "The FAA's guide line on "crew" in Yaks, CJ-6, T-34,
T-6,
>>> BT-13 etc. etc. etc. have been that all formation aircraft will have
>>> only - repeat only - FAST rated pilots on board in wavered airspace"
>>>
>>> May I have a copy of, or a reference to that FAA document please?
>>>
>>> Next, you point out that your crew members in the B-24 are not FAST
>>> certified.
>>>
>>> Have you read the published FAA requirements of who is allowed to
fly
>>> in an Experimental Exhibition Aircraft? Not just Pilot... But "FLY
>>> INSIDE OF". Usually contained in the Operating Limitations Section.
>>>
>>> Just curious.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> cjpilot710@aol.com
>>> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 8:04 PM
>>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Required crewmember
>>>
>>> The FAA's guide line on "crew" in Yaks, CJ-6, T-34, T-6, BT-13 etc.
>> etc.
>>> etc. have been that all formation aircraft will have only - repeat
>>> only
>>> - FAST rated pilots on board in wavered airspace.
>>>
>>> This could be a new FAST pilot with either a Lead or Check pilot as
>>> GIB for airshow orientation.
>>>
>>> A new lead with a Lead or Check pilot as airshow lead orientation.
>>>
>>> A mass lead with a lead or check pilot as airshow lead orientation
>>>
>>> Or a mass lead with FAST rated pilot (Lead or Check pilot) as GIB as
>>> formation safety pilot.
>>>
>>> Each and every such flight - at each and every performance, is
cleared
>>
>>> individually by the FAA. Its done in person, and orally at the
>>> briefing.
>>>
>>> You can not blow smoke up their ass, claiming a private pilot or
>>> passenger as a required crew member for "safety".
>>>
>>> After OSH, I will be making a special trip to Thunder Over Michigan
to
>>
>>> fly the B-24 in the show (wavered airspace) simply because I
happened
>>> to be the only B-24 pilot with the Collings Foundation with a FAST
>>> card. I will have only crew on board - me, co-pilot (not FAST
rated),
>>
>>> and the flight mechanic - all REQUIRED crew. No VIPs, not the
boss's
>>> daughter-in-law, not my kids or grand kids, no reporters nor news
>>> camera men, ETC ETC.
>>>
>>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse
>>> Fantasy Football today
>>> <http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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Seven aircraft on the ramp.
EAA chapter facilities are nothing short of fantastic!
Two flight checks most likely tomorrow. Both Leads. Plus one Lead
refresher.
30% chance of showers tomorrow.
We all had dinner at Applebee's which is right next door.
Hotel is not elegant but above average.
I flew up to OSH this morning for a quick look around. Our tent is in
place. Table and chairs will go in on Saturday or Sunday. A supply of oil is
on
hand as well as some other stuff that we had shipped in.
Pappy
**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
Message 6
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Have a Awsome Trip Guys/Gals and be Safe...
Best Regards
The Selby's
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:47 PM
Subject: Yak-List: !st Day
Seven aircraft on the ramp.
EAA chapter facilities are nothing short of fantastic!
Two flight checks most likely tomorrow. Both Leads. Plus one Lead
refresher.
30% chance of showers tomorrow.
We all had dinner at Applebee's which is right next door.
Hotel is not elegant but above average.
I flew up to OSH this morning for a quick look around. Our tent is in
place. Table and chairs will go in on Saturday or Sunday. A supply of
oil is on hand as well as some other stuff that we had shipped in.
Pappy
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