Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:04 AM - CO in the cockpit (Hal)
2. 11:53 AM - Re: Shirts (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 05:34 PM - Re: The "50" (Jay Land)
4. 08:38 PM - Re: CO in the cockpit (Roger Kemp MD)
5. 09:37 PM - Re: The "50" (Yak Pilot)
6. 09:57 PM - Re: The "50" (Yak Pilot)
7. 11:51 PM - Re: The "50" (Jay Land)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CO in the cockpit |
Doc,
Thanks for the information. I am aware of the dangers associated with CO
and have spent too little time dealing with them.
I do use the cannulas and in the past thought them to be of some help but
clearly they cannot offset the CO in the cockpit. Putting the exhaust
extensions on kept the largest part of the bad stuff out of the cockpit
during all stages of the flight. That combined with the O2 helped me to
make the 9 hour flight to Kalispell from OSH and arrive much more clear
headed and fresh (butt was still sore, and am working on that too).
The guys in Deer Valley that have gone to the side exhaust report clear
cockpits even during smoke use and maneuvers. I would think that a side
exhaust could work for the 50 quite well. TJ should be able to evaluate
that as he is on site there.
In your system are you breathing pure O2 in the mask? If not, where do you
get your regular air from to mix with the O2?
BTW, living in Oregon with lots of high ground around I wear the O2 for
altitude as well. Trash air and altitude don't mix well! This last trip
was a pleasure compared to the earlier ones.
Hal
Message 2
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In a message dated 8/8/2008 2:37:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rwebbpilot@earthlink.net writes:
They will be available at the RPA store. At this point I don't know the
cost.
Jim
Jim,
Are there any more of the 50th anniversary shirts left from OSH and
ETB? If so I would like to buy another one. Size small, red. Do you have
them? Are they, if available, going to be put on the RPA store site?
Thanks, Randy
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 3
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It was a great week at OSH and West Bend and Alex and I were very proud to
be a part of it. Alex really appreciated the opportunity to represent the
Red Stars in the CJ.
Most of you know Alex was headed to the World Advanced Aerobatic
Championships this past week. It has just concluded today and the US Team
won the Gold! Alex also ended up in 6th place overall individually and won
the Silver medal in the First Unknown flight.
He did it flying a Red Star aircraft- a Sukhoi 29.
Fly Safe,
Jay
Message 4
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| Subject: | CO in the cockpit |
Batman,
I am using a Scuba Pro Stage One and Stage 2 regulator with a 3200 psi pony
tank. The mouth piece is removed from the stage II and an military fabric
wound O2 hose is zip tied to it for a secure fit. Then I use the standard
Military Aviator's O2 mask. With this system, I can use up to a 70:30 Nitrox
mixture for altitude up to 12 K. I am looking into getting a 5000 PSI
kevalar wrapped tank that holds 80 Cubic Feet of air.
My current field elevation is 190 ft. So I'm not plagued by the tall rocks
like you guys up in Oregon. The above system ensures that I am breathing
fresh air during the high CO times of the sortie. Otherwise, I drop the mask
or loosen it up to breathe around it during flight at altitude.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hal
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 12:04 PM
Subject: Yak-List: CO in the cockpit
Doc,
Thanks for the information. I am aware of the dangers associated with CO
and have spent too little time dealing with them.
I do use the cannulas and in the past thought them to be of some help but
clearly they cannot offset the CO in the cockpit. Putting the exhaust
extensions on kept the largest part of the bad stuff out of the cockpit
during all stages of the flight. That combined with the O2 helped me to
make the 9 hour flight to Kalispell from OSH and arrive much more clear
headed and fresh (butt was still sore, and am working on that too).
The guys in Deer Valley that have gone to the side exhaust report clear
cockpits even during smoke use and maneuvers. I would think that a side
exhaust could work for the 50 quite well. TJ should be able to evaluate
that as he is on site there.
In your system are you breathing pure O2 in the mask? If not, where do you
get your regular air from to mix with the O2?
BTW, living in Oregon with lots of high ground around I wear the O2 for
altitude as well. Trash air and altitude don't mix well! This last trip
was a pleasure compared to the earlier ones.
Hal
Message 5
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Barry, I have a question or three that I think is worth answering if you do
not mind.- =0A-=0AWhat lesson would you say was learned by this event?
- What would you do differently next time?- If given the exact same cir
cumstances, how would you plan on not repeating a great effort but with the
less than-desired- outcome?- =0A-=0AAdmittedly a-31 airplane for
mation flight is not an everyday thing!- It is a highly unusual and almos
t one of a kind effort.- However, an Air Boss telling one group to slow d
own and another group to speed up in not unusual at all.- The fact that h
e did it when you were on speed, in close, and caught you off guard is true
as well.-- So, he threw a Monkey Wrench into finely laid plans.- It
could easily happen again if you participate in Air Shows, which is obvious
ly a big part of the RPA.- =0A-=0AQuestions that come into my mind are:
=0A-=0AThe Air Boss is in charge of the show.- However, that does not
relieve the guys in the air of being in charge and responsible for their ow
n safety of flight.- At what point do you say: Knock it off?- And bette
r yet, who is allowed to actually make that call?- Just the lead, or can
it be anyone? I.E.- "Boss we can not turn a-31 aircraft formation and g
et it right again in 5 minutes.- We need to either call this off right no
w and have nothing, or go out to a decent outbound point and go for it agai
n.-- If the formation lead was asked to make a-31 aircraft 360 turn,
what would-the response be if he said "Unable".--Does anyone have the
gonads to even consider making that call?- If not, why not?- - My in
put to lessons learned would be to have this type of situation pre-briefed
by all hands.- Knowing ones own limitations is a well known phrase.- In
this case, one would think that maybe someone should be aware of the limit
ations of a 31
aircraft non-trad formation for the same exact reasons.- =0A-=0AYour f
ormation flight did not preflight or practice doing a 360 degree turn.- T
hus you were in dark territory, where people did not really have any prior
experience carrying out a highly unusual and first time maneuver.- Yes, t
hey all had FAST cards, but how many of them had ever been in a formation s
o large let alone a 360 turn made while doing it.- =0A-=0AYes, it was O
shkosh... the biggest General Aviation event of the year and this one was e
specially significant.- This means a lot of pressure put on all participa
nts to "get it right".- How much did that pressure influence spot decisio
ns?- Some?- Not at all?- A lot?- =0A-=0AHow well did the formatio
n flight follow the original plan?- It seems clear that it started off th
at way, but did not finish up that way.- At what point when the plan fail
s do you say STOP.- What parameters do you have making a decision to "win
g it" and just do the best you can and hope for the best, in front of the w
hole aviation world by the way?- =0A-=0AThose that know me are well awa
re that I always ask these kinds of questions.- Not only of others, but o
f myself as well.- I have a HUGE sign in my ARESTI clip holder that says:
- DON'T BE STUPID-- I personally need that kind of reminder all the t
ime.- You see, I love low level, on the dirt aerobatics.- My hero is Se
rgei Boriak.- At 56, I no longer have the "stuff" that I had at 23, so I
have to keep reminding myself.- DON'T BE STUPID.- So whether it is a fo
rmation flight with a break into an uncontrolled field that ends up disrupt
ing the usual ho-hum spam can traffic pattern, with a near miss as a side o
rder, or.... a 31 aircraft formation at Oshkosh, it is my firm belief that
lessons are always learned and such lessons are of value to others that are
just getting started in whatever new flying endeavor I can think of.- At
the end of that flight, I would have sat- each and every person in that
formation down, and would have debriefed what
happened and why, and then gotten input from every one of them on how to b
etter prepare for such a screw job NEXT time.- Those lessons and suggesti
ons would be published.---- =0A-=0AThe whole thing works in rever
se as well.- Well you nail it right on the button, and you feel it was be
cause of something you really did right that was not usual.... it would be
nice to tell everyone else what that was... so they can learn from your fai
lures and your successes. =0A-=0AMy 2 cents... and I thought about it qui
te awhile before writing it. =0A-=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-=0Ap.s. Yep, I k
now I will get SOMEONE angry with this post.-- My answer.- If you don
't want comments, suggestions and level headed input, then simply do not po
st it here.- I am not an RPA member.- I am a YAK owner that is interest
ed in all things to do with YAKS.- RPA is part of that, which is why I li
sten and think on what they say and what they post.- There are some super
nice people in the YAK community and a lot of them are RPA members. =0A-
=0Ap.p.s.- One day it might be fun to have each and every reader of this
list write down some of their very worst screw ups and mistakes.- You kno
w, the ones that really scared the B'Jesus out of yourself and anyone else
watching.- I have a LONG list ....- longer than most I am sorry to say.
- But if you agree, I will be glad to take the top ten and list them.-
The point of saying this is to show that I far from being-better than any
one else.- Most likely I am much worse.- But I am interested in getting
better-at everything I do.......... especially with my airplane.- Any
pilot that does not feel the same way is-at a minimum stupid and at worst
, freaking dangerous.-- =0A-=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFr
om: Barry Hancock <BHANCOCK@WORLDWIDEWARBIRDS.COM>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics
.com=0ASent: Wednesday, August 6, 2008 7:37:08 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: The
WARBIRDS.COM>=0A=0AWell, it's in the books.- For better or worse we attem
pted what is- =0Alikely the most difficult formation ever to be flown at
Airventure in- =0Acommemoration of the 50th Anniversary of the CJ.- For
those of you- =0Awho have seen the video or pictures, the result was les
s than- =0Astellar.- There is, however, a story to be told.- I'm plan
ning to- =0Awrite a more detailed account for the upcoming Red Alert maga
zine,- =0Abut the short story is this....=0A=0A3 days of practicing prior
to the event allowed us to get familiar- =0Awith flying unusual sight li
nes, etc.- We were only able to practice- =0Athe 50 partially due to la
ck of airplanes and an under equipped FBO- =0A(as Pappy previously mentio
ned).- The brief and plan drawn up by- =0ADavid McGirt was as good as i
t could have been.- Everyone knew what- =0Awould happen, how it would h
appen, and how we would fill holes if- =0Aaircraft dropped out.- We wal
ked it through in it's entirety the day- =0Abefore and game day preparati
ons were all in hand on the day of the- =0Aflight.=0A=0AJust the starting
rumble of 46 aircraft on that fateful afternoon was- =0Asomething I'll n
ever forget.- To look around the grass warbird ramp- =0Aand have nothin
g but spinning props as far as the eye could see in- =0Amost any directio
n was an incredible sight. Taxi, takeoff (5 minutes- =0Astraight out for
lead before starting his turn to the north to allow- =0Amost of the aircr
aft to get off), and join up all went as planned.- =0AAirboss said the sh
ow was on time, and after about 20 minutes it was- =0Atime to start our r
un in and put the "50" together.- 31 aircraft took- =0Aup position in t
he 5 and the 0 and we were headed for history.- At 3- =0Aminutes out we
were all assembled and looking good.- Approaching the- =0Anorth side o
f the field at 1500', anyone that knew where we were- =0Acoming from coul
d see that we were inbound and together....90 seconds- =0Aout and everybo
dy's refining their position.- I'm sure I wasn't the- =0Aonly one in th
e flight that thought "this is gonna be cool!"....and- =0Athen disaster s
truck.- "OK guys," says Mission Commander McGirt- =0A(flying high cover
and dressing the formation as necessary...all we- =0Aheard 'til this poi
nt was "you're lookin' great, gentlemen"),- =0A"Airboss says he needs 5 m
inutes, so we're gonna turn this- =0Athing.....- We're 3 miles from sho
w center and airboss delivers the- =0Abiggest screw job I've ever seen at
an air show....=0A=0AWe did the best we could and after seeing the video f
or myself all I- =0Awill say is I am DARNED PROUD of our guys for keeping
it as together- =0Aas they did...we had to change airspeeds...the lead o
f the 5 (Pappy)- =0Apassed the lead the lead of the zero (Pumper) in the
middle of our- =0Aturn to keep things together....we maneuvered a total o
f nearly 360- =0Adegrees with 31 airplanes in a formation that was 8 airp
lanes deep- =0Aand 10 airplanes wide within 5 miles of show center with a
3 mile run- =0Ain and still had a recognizable formation.- Yes, it was
ugly and far- =0Aworse than anyone had hoped for.- We are all disappoi
nted with the- =0Aresult.- But the simple fact is that we did the best
we could with- =0Awhat we had and factors beyond our control sealed our f
ate.=0A=0AI am proud to have been a part of that formation and proud of the
- =0Aguys in the back that did all they could with the most nasty curve
- =0Aball they'd ever seen.- Overall it was a great week....and there w
as- =0Afar more positive than the one negative highlight.- It's the bes
t- =0AOshkosh I've ever been a part of....and I've been there from year o
ne- =0Aof Red Star airplane mass formation at OSH.- Pappy, David McGirt
,- =0ACraig Payne, Russ Dycus, John Cox and a cast of dozens did a great
- =0Ajob of making it a fantastic week.- One we can all be proud of....
.=0A=0A=0ABdog
Message 6
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STUPENDOUS!- =0A-=0AFor those that are not big fans of competitive aero
batics, you have to understand that there is a certain amount of "paying yo
ur dues" involved in working your way up the ranks.- Alex is a relative n
ewcomer.- For Alex to be rated as high as this, ESPECIALLY in the UNKNOWN
S is enough to make anyone blink twice, stand up and pay attention.- Real
ize that in the UNKNOWNS, you are pretty much handed a piece of paper that
says 'GO FLY THIS AEROBATIC SEQUENCE.- More often than not, this sequence
is made up of really weird and hard crap that the OTHER competitors throw
in there hoping to screw up the competition.- =0AJay, Alex is raising the
bar.- =0A-=0AMark Bitterlich =0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message
----=0AFrom: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Friday, August 8, 2008 5:32:47 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: The "50
=0AIt was a great week at OSH and West Bend and Alex and I were very proud
to=0Abe a part of it.- Alex really appreciated the opportunity to represe
nt the=0ARed Stars in the CJ.=0A=0AMost of you know Alex was headed to the
World Advanced Aerobatic=0AChampionships this past week.- It has just con
cluded today and the US Team=0Awon the Gold!- Alex also ended up in 6th p
lace overall individually and won=0Athe Silver medal in the First Unknown f
light.=0A=0AHe did it flying a Red Star aircraft- a Sukhoi 29.=0A=0AFly Saf
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L
=======
Message 7
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Mark
Thanks!
You are indeed right. The unknowns were made up of ten maneuvers, each one
proposed by the other teams and all designed to be difficult to fly. They
were truly brutal !!
Alex was 2nd and 7th in the two unknowns which added to 3rd in the combined
unknowns behind this years Champion (Rob Holland of the US) and the Europea
n
Champion Tamas Illenas (Hungarian)
Unknowns separate the Men form the Boys so to speak and we were all proud
that Alex stepped up for the USA.
You can see the sequences at www.civa-results.com
See pictures and links at www.LandAerosports.com
Jay
PS- the density altitude here when he flew was 4300=B9 and he had less than 3
hours in the Sukhoi 29 he flew. All of the Red Star pilots/uncles who have
helped me raise him and train him this past few years should be equally
proud!
From: Yak Pilot <yakplt@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: The "50"
STUPENDOUS!
For those that are not big fans of competitive aerobatics, you have to
understand that there is a certain amount of "paying your dues" involved in
working your way up the ranks. Alex is a relative newcomer. For Alex to b
e
rated as high as this, ESPECIALLY in the UNKNOWNS is enough to make anyone
blink twice, stand up and pay attention. Realize that in the UNKNOWNS, you
are pretty much handed a piece of paper that says 'GO FLY THIS AEROBATIC
SEQUENCE. More often than not, this sequence is made up of really weird an
d
hard crap that the OTHER competitors throw in there hoping to screw up the
competition.
Jay, Alex is raising the bar.
Mark Bitterlich
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