Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Xavier MEAL est absent. (Xavier.MEAL@editions-lariviere.fr)
2. 03:37 AM - Re: The "50" (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
3. 05:46 AM - Re: The 50 (Russ)
4. 06:34 AM - Re: The "50" (Forrest Johnson)
5. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: The "50" (Mark Davis)
6. 08:53 AM - Re: Re: The "50" (Roger Kemp MD)
7. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: The "50" (Mark Davis)
8. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: The 50 (Mark Schrick)
9. 01:21 PM - Bad storms and gust locks (Craig Payne)
10. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: The "50" (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
11. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: The 50 (Yak Pilot)
12. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: The "50" (Roger Kemp MD)
13. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: The 50 (Jim Griffin)
14. 10:49 PM - Re: Re: The 50 (David McGirt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Xavier MEAL est absent. |
Je serai absent(e) du 25/07/2008 au 25/08/2008.
Message 2
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Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a delay that
the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and reassembled. The call
to the Air Boss would have informed him of such and that the flight would return
in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call to the Air Boss would have been that
there was a safety of flight issue for the entire formation that would be caused
by the delay and to assist in clearing the air space for the formation entry.
It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship, four-ship or six
ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are maneuverable. The 50
should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those flying it as a non-maneuverable
formation.
My two-cents.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
Message 3
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I am sure that Talon will have something to say about what happened that
fateful day. From the perspective of the guy who watched the guys at ETB
practice and practice and I saw the '50' before the 360 call, it was Sierra
Hotel, dead on and a thing of beauty. Alpha and Bravo flights did the best
they could given the Airboss' command for a 360.
We can coulda, shoulda, woulda this for time immortal, however no one was
hurt, everyone recovered, and everyone has bragging rights to being part of
a great organization.
It is my desire to add the basis positions for these kind of show
formations: line abeam, show trail, and the 45 degree bearing line. Those a
pile of grease pencils and something to measure 6" with and we will be good
to go.
We have 5 years before we need to put up the '55' start practicing these
show formations now. OH YAK-5x guys, that is the same year we will need to
put up the '40'........................ (we are going to need more FAST
drivers!)
Russ 'Airboss' Dycus
Message 4
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You have a son to really be proud of.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Land" <jland@popeandland.com>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: The "50"
>
> It was a great week at OSH and West Bend and Alex and I were very proud to
> be a part of it. Alex really appreciated the opportunity to represent the
> Red Stars in the CJ.
>
> Most of you know Alex was headed to the World Advanced Aerobatic
> Championships this past week. It has just concluded today and the US Team
> won the Gold! Alex also ended up in 6th place overall individually and
> won
> the Silver medal in the First Unknown flight.
>
> He did it flying a Red Star aircraft- a Sukhoi 29.
>
> Fly Safe,
>
> Jay
>
>
>
Message 5
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Hindsight nearly always being 20/20, a request of "Boss, we'll need a
two minute outbound leg on the turn to get this gaggle turned around and
stabilized back inbound" likely would have been enough to have everyone back
where they should have been nearing the field boundary. The Air Boss won't
approve what you don't ask for. It's no different than a multi plane
arrival in echelon for an overhead break. If you're still turning at the
numbers, you're probably not going to have everyone in position, stable and
looking good. Unless traffic is a factor, I always try to hit no less than
3/4 to one mile for an initial with a four ship. Too many Navy years where
someone was always watching the break and you got hammered for not looking
good.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>
> Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a
> delay that the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and
> reassembled. The call to the Air Boss would have informed him of such and
> that the flight would return in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call to the
> Air Boss would have been that there was a safety of flight issue for the
> entire formation that would be caused by the delay and to assist in
> clearing the air space for the formation entry.
>
> It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship, four-ship
> or six ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are
> maneuverable. The 50 should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those
> flying it as a non-maneuverable formation.
>
> My two-cents.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 9:02 AM
>
>
Message 6
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Looking good on Final equals Es Sprit De Corp! It portrays Unit image. That
comes with experience and practice. A simple FAST card does not equal
anything without practice and the most important thing of all SA. SA comes
with experience. Many years of it. Leads aren't developed in a couple of 3
day seminars but over years flying as a wing. FLUG (Flight lead upgrade) is
no small thing either in the military that is. Those that have been through
the process know exactly what I'm talking about.
Come down final and be out of position around my ANG base one can expect to
be the object of discussion at Beer Call on Friday evening. You will be the
object of humor that evening for sure. Somebody will see it and somebody
will remind you of how bad you F*&^%$ it up. If you screwed up in the area
whether during ACM, on the Range, during a rejoin, BDA, departure, or
arrival, someone is going to let you know you what went wrong. If it was
dangerous, it will be discussed in the quarterly wing safety meeting or
worse at the FEB (flying evaluation board) where your wings are on the line
as is your career.
One learns in a fighter squadron that a thin skin and no sense of humor is
an open invitation to ridicule. You will learn to grow a thick skin and
always strive to be the best you can be. Because if you don't someone is
going to tell you about it or become a victim of aviations self cleaning
oven...a statistic.
It's like life as a tail dragger driver...your best landing was your last
one. Screw it up, you get to hear about it until the next one. Navy pukes
understand that concept well and we AF pukes kind of get it especially when
we screw up infront of the SQ CC or Wing King.
So saying all that, Yes, I saw the videos from OSH. The fifty looked like a
freeking flag flapping in a 20 knot crosswind. One person was out of
position in the trailing arrow too. No I was not there and personally I
don't fly in mass gaggles unless tasked to by people higher up the chain of
command than I. No desire to subject my rosey pink to the risk unless it
involves saving life, limb or going to break something in anger.
There are however lessons to be learned from this and they need to be
discussed for the benefit of all involved least they be repeated again with
possible worst outcomes than looking bad in front of a national audience.
Rumor has it there was a near mid air during landing.
That is what flight safety is all about! It is not personal unless you were
the one that was trying to kill me.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
Hindsight nearly always being 20/20, a request of "Boss, we'll need a
two minute outbound leg on the turn to get this gaggle turned around and
stabilized back inbound" likely would have been enough to have everyone back
where they should have been nearing the field boundary. The Air Boss won't
approve what you don't ask for. It's no different than a multi plane
arrival in echelon for an overhead break. If you're still turning at the
numbers, you're probably not going to have everyone in position, stable and
looking good. Unless traffic is a factor, I always try to hit no less than
3/4 to one mile for an initial with a four ship. Too many Navy years where
someone was always watching the break and you got hammered for not looking
good.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>
> Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a
> delay that the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and
> reassembled. The call to the Air Boss would have informed him of such and
> that the flight would return in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call to the
> Air Boss would have been that there was a safety of flight issue for the
> entire formation that would be caused by the delay and to assist in
> clearing the air space for the formation entry.
>
> It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship, four-ship
> or six ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are
> maneuverable. The 50 should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those
> flying it as a non-maneuverable formation.
>
> My two-cents.
>
> Craig
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 9:02 AM
>
>
Message 7
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Doc,
The Navy is probably the worst (or best) at critiqueing. Every
squadron ready room on the ship had a "greenie board" posted in a prominent
place where every landing grade was noted by color. Not enough "green"
grades and the peer pressure cooker heated up. When you walked into any
other squadron's ready room the first thing most pilots and NFO's looked at
was the "greenie board". It was damn sure the first place a new NFO looked
when assigned a new pilot. The LSOs not only graded the passes, but
comments on the break and formation were always made if notable either
better or worse than average. Even non LSO waved passes at the beach were
flown like a carrier pass and self critiqued by the pilot. Every formation
flight was also debriefed. Too slow of a rendezvous, too low, sucked or
acute on the bearing line got noted. When training students in the Training
Command, if the lead couldn't look down the bearing line and see three
aircraft lined up on the horizon, someone was out of place. Under runs were
very bad juju and virtually didn't happen in the fleet, even at night.
Mark Davis
N44YK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp MD" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
>
> Looking good on Final equals Es Sprit De Corp! It portrays Unit image.
> That
> comes with experience and practice. A simple FAST card does not equal
> anything without practice and the most important thing of all SA. SA comes
> with experience. Many years of it. Leads aren't developed in a couple of 3
> day seminars but over years flying as a wing. FLUG (Flight lead upgrade)
> is
> no small thing either in the military that is. Those that have been
> through
> the process know exactly what I'm talking about.
> Come down final and be out of position around my ANG base one can expect
> to
> be the object of discussion at Beer Call on Friday evening. You will be
> the
> object of humor that evening for sure. Somebody will see it and somebody
> will remind you of how bad you F*&^%$ it up. If you screwed up in the area
> whether during ACM, on the Range, during a rejoin, BDA, departure, or
> arrival, someone is going to let you know you what went wrong. If it was
> dangerous, it will be discussed in the quarterly wing safety meeting or
> worse at the FEB (flying evaluation board) where your wings are on the
> line
> as is your career.
> One learns in a fighter squadron that a thin skin and no sense of humor is
> an open invitation to ridicule. You will learn to grow a thick skin and
> always strive to be the best you can be. Because if you don't someone is
> going to tell you about it or become a victim of aviations self cleaning
> oven...a statistic.
> It's like life as a tail dragger driver...your best landing was your last
> one. Screw it up, you get to hear about it until the next one. Navy pukes
> understand that concept well and we AF pukes kind of get it especially
> when
> we screw up infront of the SQ CC or Wing King.
> So saying all that, Yes, I saw the videos from OSH. The fifty looked like
> a
> freeking flag flapping in a 20 knot crosswind. One person was out of
> position in the trailing arrow too. No I was not there and personally I
> don't fly in mass gaggles unless tasked to by people higher up the chain
> of
> command than I. No desire to subject my rosey pink to the risk unless it
> involves saving life, limb or going to break something in anger.
> There are however lessons to be learned from this and they need to be
> discussed for the benefit of all involved least they be repeated again
> with
> possible worst outcomes than looking bad in front of a national audience.
> Rumor has it there was a near mid air during landing.
> That is what flight safety is all about! It is not personal unless you
> were
> the one that was trying to kill me.
> Doc
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 9:57 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
>
>
> Hindsight nearly always being 20/20, a request of "Boss, we'll need a
> two minute outbound leg on the turn to get this gaggle turned around and
> stabilized back inbound" likely would have been enough to have everyone
> back
>
> where they should have been nearing the field boundary. The Air Boss
> won't
> approve what you don't ask for. It's no different than a multi plane
> arrival in echelon for an overhead break. If you're still turning at the
> numbers, you're probably not going to have everyone in position, stable
> and
> looking good. Unless traffic is a factor, I always try to hit no less
> than
> 3/4 to one mile for an initial with a four ship. Too many Navy years
> where
> someone was always watching the break and you got hammered for not looking
> good.
>
> Mark Davis
> N44YK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 4:36 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
>
>
>> <capav8r@gmail.com>
>>
>> Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a
>> delay that the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and
>> reassembled. The call to the Air Boss would have informed him of such
>> and
>
>> that the flight would return in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call to
>> the
>
>> Air Boss would have been that there was a safety of flight issue for the
>> entire formation that would be caused by the delay and to assist in
>> clearing the air space for the formation entry.
>>
>> It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship,
>> four-ship
>
>> or six ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are
>> maneuverable. The 50 should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those
>> flying it as a non-maneuverable formation.
>>
>> My two-cents.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked by AVG.
>> 9:02 AM
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 9:02 AM
>
>
Message 8
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Did anyone get a picture of the "50" and can they post it?
Some of us could not make it but wish we could have.
Someone please post OSH pictures please......
Mark "SHREK" Schrick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russ
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:44 AM
Subject: Yak-List: re: The 50
I am sure that Talon will have something to say about what happened that
fateful day. From the perspective of the guy who watched the guys at ETB
practice and practice and I saw the '50' before the 360 call, it was Sierra
Hotel, dead on and a thing of beauty. Alpha and Bravo flights did the best
they could given the Airboss' command for a 360.
We can coulda, shoulda, woulda this for time immortal, however no one was
hurt, everyone recovered, and everyone has bragging rights to being part of
a great organization.
It is my desire to add the basis positions for these kind of show
formations: line abeam, show trail, and the 45 degree bearing line. Those a
pile of grease pencils and something to measure 6" with and we will be good
to go.
We have 5 years before we need to put up the '55' start practicing these
show formations now. OH YAK-5x guys, that is the same year we will need to
put up the '40'........................ (we are going to need more FAST
drivers!)
Russ 'Airboss' Dycus
Message 9
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| Subject: | Bad storms and gust locks |
On Monday after Oshkosh, my CJ was tied down on a farm strip west of Chicago when
a pretty nasty storm system came through at speeds up to 90MPH with "positive"
lightning. I happen to be driving on the road when it came through and my
Buick was a handful on dark country roads.
My airplane was tied down next to the crop dusters but seemed OK after the storm.
Later I found that the swivel on one of my tiedown stakes had straightened
out, unwrapping the steel. My gust locks were still on. There were some small
indentations on the tail fairing, which is soft metal but no other appartent damage.
The Left wing seems a bit heavy so I'll have to correct with trim tabs.
My belief in good gust locks is reinforced. While I do sell them, many folks make
their own. Just be certain that the load from the control surfaces is evenly
spread to the aircraft structure, not concentrated to a spot, or bolt type lock.
Allow for a bit of flexibility in your design and use weather-resistent materials.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 10
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You put it much more succinctly than I did. This was what I was trying
to say and ask at the same time. So what is the proper response to the
Boss when he tries to make you do it anyway?
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Craig Winkelmann,
CFI
Sent: Sat 8/9/2008 6:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
<capav8r@gmail.com>
Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a
delay that the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and
reassembled. The call to the Air Boss would have informed him of such
and that the flight would return in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call
to the Air Boss would have been that there was a safety of flight issue
for the entire formation that would be caused by the delay and to assist
in clearing the air space for the formation entry.
It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship,
four-ship or six ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are
maneuverable. The 50 should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those
flying it as a non-maneuverable formation.
My two-cents.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
Message 11
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|
A debrief is all about "coulda, woulda, shoulda" and indeed that was exactl
y what I was asking for.---In my opinion it is also a sign of a great
organization, or an individual for that matter.----=0AMark Bitterl
ich =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Russ <duncan1574@sbcglobal
.net>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 5:43:41
uss" <duncan1574@sbcglobal.net>=0A=0AI am sure that Talon will have somethi
ng to say about what happened that=0Afateful day.- From the perspective o
f the guy who watched the guys at ETB=0Apractice and practice and I saw the
'50' before the 360 call, it was Sierra=0AHotel, dead on and a thing of be
auty.- Alpha and Bravo flights did the best=0Athey could given the Airbos
s' command for a 360.=0A=0AWe can coulda, shoulda, woulda this for time imm
ortal, however no one was=0Ahurt, everyone recovered, and everyone has brag
ging rights to being part of=0Aa great organization.=0A=0AIt is my desire t
o add the basis positions for these kind of show=0Aformations: line abeam,
show trail, and the 45 degree bearing line.- Those a=0Apile of grease pen
cils and something to measure 6" with and we will be good=0Ato go.=0A=0AWe
have 5 years before we need to put up the '55' start practicing these=0Asho
w formations now.- OH YAK-5x guys, that is the same year we will need to
=0Aput up the '40'........................- (we are going to need more FA
===============
Message 12
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Honestly, I do not know. If we were 5 min early for a TOT, we S turned the 4
flights or did 90 left then 90 right. I have been a gaggle attach sortie
with 6 squadrons broken into 4 ship elements. We pulled the power back and S
turned to make our TOT's but we were playing with seconds not 5 minutes.
That was during the time that the Honduras Sandanist Communist regime fell
and Cuba threatened to send support to prevent the downfall of that regime.
We had 48 Vipers loaded 2X2 gun with 4 500 lb M-82's, 36 ship Eagle escort
loaded 4x4, 6 KC- 135, and 1 AWACS. Fidel rattled his saber but then sat
down and colored. We hit our TOT on the Homestead range on the money for
live drops! That was freeking impressive!
I personally would have said "Unable" unless there was a safety of flight
issue. If that had been the case, then it would have been drive out to the 5
mile initial and re-enter. We would have over 10 min late for the arrival
though.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:01 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
You put it much more succinctly than I did. This was what I was trying to
say and ask at the same time. So what is the proper response to the Boss
when he tries to make you do it anyway?
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Craig Winkelmann, CFI
Sent: Sat 8/9/2008 6:36 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: The "50"
Regarding the '50'....I assumed when I heard the Air Boss called for a delay
that the 50 was broken down in to maneuverable 4-ships and reassembled. The
call to the Air Boss would have informed him of such and that the flight
would return in 20-30 minutes. Otherwise, the call to the Air Boss would
have been that there was a safety of flight issue for the entire formation
that would be caused by the delay and to assist in clearing the air space
for the formation entry.
It is one thing for an Air Boss to put a singles ship, two-ship, four-ship
or six ship into a delay is one thing as these formations are maneuverable.
The 50 should have been viewed by the Air Boss and those flying it as a
non-maneuverable formation.
My two-cents.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197491#197491
Message 13
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First of all, it may have been a little too ambitious. The T-6s made
their 70 with just 18 planes. We had it reasonable in 2 practice runs
with high cover giving instructions.
It would of been IMPOSSIBLE to turn in a formation of only 18 planes
while in th 70. None of these planes have enough power to stay on the
outside of a 6 or more plane echelon.
The reason the show was delayed for 5 minutes was that the fake air
racers decided to throw in another lap which was not briefed. Since they
crashed last year in their landing sequence, I guess the airshow central
controller did not want to stress them.
Wayne Boggs should of had the cahones to tell them to stay below 1000
feet and land or go out over the lake and hold but their are a lots of
big bucks in that heavy iron.
When Wayne told redstar lead to give him a 360 and be back in 5 minutes,
he should of said "unable". Then let Wade reconsider his position. It is
now his problem again as to what to do. Get 4 planes on the ground or
bust up 40 in the air. Then again, it's easy to be the quarterback after
the game. I have lead the T-28 formation in OSHKOSH in the past and it's
not the same as most other airshows you do.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: re: The 50
A debrief is all about "coulda, woulda, shoulda" and indeed that was
exactly what I was asking for. In my opinion it is also a sign of a
great organization, or an individual for that matter.
Mark Bitterlich
----- Original Message ----
From: Russ <duncan1574@sbcglobal.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 5:43:41 AM
Subject: Yak-List: re: The 50
I am sure that Talon will have something to say about what happened
that
fateful day. From the perspective of the guy who watched the guys at
ETB
practice and practice and I saw the '50' before the 360 call, it was
Sierra
Hotel, dead on and a thing of beauty. Alpha and Bravo flights did the
best
they could given the Airboss' command for a 360.
We can coulda, shoulda, woulda this for time immortal, however no one
was
hurt, everyone recovered, and everyone has bragging rights to being
part of
a
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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3D
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3D
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Message 14
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Good morning all,
Sorry for the delay in response, but I am out paying for my fuel at
Oshkosh working overseas.. Anyway..
Two things for now -
1) Mark, and all make some good points, but all in all =AD it is about the
lessons learned =AD there is a working document being worked on now, and will
go out to all that were a part of the mission. It might go out to everyone
, but that was the original intent. As with anything, this was not a simpl
e
story =AD thus all the simple answers are not always the right ones. A good
time was had by all, but what could we have done to make it a great time by
all.
2) Pictures/Video =AD The easiest would be to watch the clip on AeroTV
Network =AD This is a long link, so make sure you copy and paste all of it..
http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm?do=app.bestView&videoid=dda53d15-fcdc-4ebd
-
8ca2-7b77b354c923
Or goto - http://www.aero-tv.net/ look a the bottom for the story on the
nifty 50
David
On 8/10/08 12:59 AM, "Yak Pilot" <yakplt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A debrief is all about "coulda, woulda, shoulda" and indeed that was exac
tly
> what I was asking for. In my opinion it is also a sign of a great
> organization, or an individual for that matter.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Russ <duncan1574@sbcglobal.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 9, 2008 5:43:41 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: re: The 50
>
>
> I am sure that Talon will have something to say about what happened that
> fateful day. From the perspective of the guy who watched the guys at ETB
> practice and practice and I saw the '50' before the 360 call, it was Sier
ra
> Hotel, dead on and a thing of beauty. Alpha and Bravo flights did the be
st
> they could given the Airboss' command for a 360.
>
> We can coulda, shoulda, woulda this for time immortal, however no one was
> hurt, everyone recovered, and everyone has bragging rights to being part
of
> a
>
>
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> <3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D
> 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
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