Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:55 AM - Re: Certification (Richard Goode)
2. 02:03 AM - Re: Certification (Hans Oortman)
3. 04:48 AM - Re: Certification (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 05:43 AM - Re: Paintball tank? (Terry Lewis)
5. 06:33 AM - Re: Paintball tank? (Roger Kemp MD)
6. 07:22 AM - Re: Certification (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 10:32 AM - Re: Certification (Robert Langford)
8. 05:33 PM - Re: Paintball tank? (N642K)
9. 05:54 PM - No Brakes! (Bill Geipel)
10. 06:33 PM - 18T carb air box (Joe Howse)
11. 06:35 PM - Re: No Brakes! (Jetj01@aol.com)
12. 06:58 PM - Re: No Brakes! (mike holoman)
13. 07:33 PM - Re: No Brakes! (Roger Baker)
14. 07:33 PM - Re: No Brakes! (Roger Kemp MD)
15. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: Paintball tank? (Roger Kemp MD)
16. 09:32 PM - Re: No Brakes! (Mark Davis)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Certification |
Hans-the problem with Annexe 2 is that EASA has no involvment with it,so
the individual NAA's can make whatever rules they like in each
country,and it is much easier to say "no" than it is to take the
responsibility of allowing strange aircraft to fly!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
It is the Annexe 2 list which I meant.
I have been told by our CAA that eventually, what ever that means, we
will have a category ( the legal term I believe is because of
grandfathers rights.) in Holland where those aircraft will fit..the
problem is.nobody told us when..
Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 2008 17:19
Aan: YAK USA LIST
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Certification
Certification
This is not a simple issue, and to respond to recent postings:
Type Certificates are not something that can be "provided". You need
to start with an aeroplane that has been designed according to a design
code to obtain Type Certification, and, effectively, it is impossible to
do this retrospectively.
In terms of the popular Russian light aircraft, the 50/52/55 were
designed to a very high standard, but a military design code.
The 18T was designed to a Russian civil design code - but with which
there are no comparable codes in the West.
The US has FAR 23, and Europe has had JAR 23, which are almost
identical. Following these, some ten years ago, Russia established AR
23, which is paragraph for paragraph the same, although in some areas,
the Russian standard in more demanding.
HOWEVER, given the lack of bilateral agreements between Russia and the
West, the Russian Type Certification is not automatically accepted in
the West.
Also, the cost within Russia of obtaining Type Certification is so big
that it effectively deters anyone from undertaking it.
However the Su-29 and 31; Yak-54 have obtained AR 23 Full
Certification.
In Western countries, Lithuania has gone through a process of Type
Certification for Yak-54, and Hungary has Type Certificated the Sukhois
and the Yak-18T. The view of EASA has been that Hungarian
certifications were not sufficiently thorough for EASA to automatically
accept them, but EASA felt that the Sukhois / Yak-54 / 18T were all
aeroplanes that should be Type Certificated, and therefore proposed a
"short cut" certification process to go from the historical Russian code
(for 18T) and AR 23, (for Sukhois and Yak-54). EASA emphasised that
this would be a genuine short cut; would be genuinely cheap; most of the
work would be done by themselves. However none of the Russians would
agree to cooperate and provide the data/flight test reports etc that
would be needed.
Very fortunately EASA took a very sensible view and did not, as they
could have, relegate all these aeroplanes into "Annexe 2" (see below),
and on an initial basis have given them EASA "Permits to Fly".
The practicality is that these planes can fly without effective
restrictions throughout Europe; be maintained anywhere within Europe
etc.
It is now the intension of EASA to change from Permits to Fly (which
had always been intended as a temporary category) into long term
Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness. Hopefully this process will
begin in the next few months.
Hans Oortman is wrong to say that Yak-52 and 50 are "on the EASA
list". Sure they are on an EASA list - which is their Annexe 2.
Annexe 2 is for aircraft that are NOT in the jurisdiction of EASA, and
this includes a huge spectrum of aircraft such as Home-built; Warbirds;
aircraft produced before Type Certified standards AND Yak-50 and 52.
The whole point of Annexe 2 is that these aeroplanes are not the
responsibility of EASA, but are handled by the local National Aviation
Authority in each country. Fortunately as we know only to well, there
is no uniformity amongst European countries as to how this should be
handled.
So, if it is a type that currently gets an EASA "Permit to Fly" like a
Sukhoi/18T etc, no problem to bring one into Europe.
If not, today you have the possibility of Russian registration, or you
have a Restricted Certificate from another country, coupled with a
"Over-Fly" Permission from your own, or you try to get it accepted by
your own NAA!
Hope that this helps.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Richard,
I understand your point. As fars as my intel is concerned the idea is (for
Holland that is.) to allow ex warbirds including Yaks, Sukhois etc to
register in the experimental class where by they will impose a maximum
number of flight hours of 100 per year and maintenance should be done by
authorized technicians for those specific planes. But this is 8 months ago,
I don't know what the latest status is. Quite frankly I have given up on
this matter, at the moment there are about 6 Yaks flying here. If they want
to ground those w'll see what happens. By that time I will have left
Netherlands already.I am fed up with it.
I hear what you say.civil employees don't like to take responsibilities and
certainly not here.
Fly safe!
Hans Oortman, MBA, Ph.D.
CEO
STN BV
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: woensdag 20 augustus 2008 9:54
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Certification
Hans-the problem with Annexe 2 is that EASA has no involvment with it,so the
individual NAA's can make whatever rules they like in each country,and it is
much easier to say "no" than it is to take the responsibility of allowing
strange aircraft to fly!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1 <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
It is the Annexe 2 list which I meant.
I have been told by our CAA that eventually, what ever that means, we will
have a category ( the legal term I believe is because of grandfathers
rights.) in Holland where those aircraft will fit..the problem is.nobody
told us when..
Hans
_____
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 2008 17:19
Aan: YAK USA LIST
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Certification
Certification
This is not a simple issue, and to respond to recent postings:
Type Certificates are not something that can be "provided". You need to
start with an aeroplane that has been designed according to a design code to
obtain Type Certification, and, effectively, it is impossible to do this
retrospectively.
In terms of the popular Russian light aircraft, the 50/52/55 were designed
to a very high standard, but a military design code.
The 18T was designed to a Russian civil design code - but with which there
are no comparable codes in the West.
The US has FAR 23, and Europe has had JAR 23, which are almost identical.
Following these, some ten years ago, Russia established AR 23, which is
paragraph for paragraph the same, although in some areas, the Russian
standard in more demanding.
HOWEVER, given the lack of bilateral agreements between Russia and the West,
the Russian Type Certification is not automatically accepted in the West.
Also, the cost within Russia of obtaining Type Certification is so big that
it effectively deters anyone from undertaking it.
However the Su-29 and 31; Yak-54 have obtained AR 23 Full Certification.
In Western countries, Lithuania has gone through a process of Type
Certification for Yak-54, and Hungary has Type Certificated the Sukhois and
the Yak-18T. The view of EASA has been that Hungarian certifications were
not sufficiently thorough for EASA to automatically accept them, but EASA
felt that the Sukhois / Yak-54 / 18T were all aeroplanes that should be Type
Certificated, and therefore proposed a "short cut" certification process to
go from the historical Russian code (for 18T) and AR 23, (for Sukhois and
Yak-54). EASA emphasised that this would be a genuine short cut; would be
genuinely cheap; most of the work would be done by themselves. However
none of the Russians would agree to cooperate and provide the data/flight
test reports etc that would be needed.
Very fortunately EASA took a very sensible view and did not, as they could
have, relegate all these aeroplanes into "Annexe 2" (see below), and on an
initial basis have given them EASA "Permits to Fly".
The practicality is that these planes can fly without effective restrictions
throughout Europe; be maintained anywhere within Europe etc.
It is now the intension of EASA to change from Permits to Fly (which had
always been intended as a temporary category) into long term Restricted
Certificates of Airworthiness. Hopefully this process will begin in the
next few months.
Hans Oortman is wrong to say that Yak-52 and 50 are "on the EASA list".
Sure they are on an EASA list - which is their Annexe 2. Annexe 2 is for
aircraft that are NOT in the jurisdiction of EASA, and this includes a huge
spectrum of aircraft such as Home-built; Warbirds; aircraft produced before
Type Certified standards AND Yak-50 and 52.
The whole point of Annexe 2 is that these aeroplanes are not the
responsibility of EASA, but are handled by the local National Aviation
Authority in each country. Fortunately as we know only to well, there is
no uniformity amongst European countries as to how this should be handled.
So, if it is a type that currently gets an EASA "Permit to Fly" like a
Sukhoi/18T etc, no problem to bring one into Europe.
If not, today you have the possibility of Russian registration, or you have
a Restricted Certificate from another country, coupled with a "Over-Fly"
Permission from your own, or you try to get it accepted by your own NAA!
Hope that this helps.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Certification |
Hans,
If you're planning on leaving Holland, you're always welcome here in the
US. Bring your Yak. There is always room for one more (as my mom
always said).
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:01 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
Richard,
I understand your point. As fars as my intel is concerned the idea is
(for Holland that is=85) to allow ex warbirds including Yaks, Sukhois
etc to register in the experimental class where by they will impose a
maximum number of flight hours of 100 per year and maintenance should be
done by authorized technicians for those specific planes. But this is 8
months ago, I don=92t know what the latest status is. Quite frankly I
have given up on this matter, at the moment there are about 6 Yaks
flying here. If they want to ground those w=92ll see what happens. By
that time I will have left Netherlands already=85I am fed up with it.
I hear what you say=85civil employees don=92t like to take
responsibilities and certainly not here.
Fly safe!
Hans Oortman, MBA, Ph.D.
CEO
STN BV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: woensdag 20 augustus 2008 9:54
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Certification
Hans-the problem with Annexe 2 is that EASA has no involvment with
it,so the individual NAA's can make whatever rules they like in each
country,and it is much easier to say "no" than it is to take the
responsibility of allowing strange aircraft to fly!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
It is the Annexe 2 list which I meant=85
I have been told by our CAA that eventually, what ever that means,
we will have a category ( the legal term I believe is because of
grandfathers rights=85) in Holland where those aircraft will fit=85.the
problem is=85nobody told us when=85.
Hans
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 2008 17:19
Aan: YAK USA LIST
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Certification
Certification
This is not a simple issue, and to respond to recent postings:
Type Certificates are not something that can be "provided". You
need to start with an aeroplane that has been designed according to a
design code to obtain Type Certification, and, effectively, it is
impossible to do this retrospectively.
In terms of the popular Russian light aircraft, the 50/52/55 were
designed to a very high standard, but a military design code.
The 18T was designed to a Russian civil design code - but with which
there are no comparable codes in the West.
The US has FAR 23, and Europe has had JAR 23, which are almost
identical. Following these, some ten years ago, Russia established AR
23, which is paragraph for paragraph the same, although in some areas,
the Russian standard in more demanding.
HOWEVER, given the lack of bilateral agreements between Russia and
the West, the Russian Type Certification is not automatically accepted
in the West.
Also, the cost within Russia of obtaining Type Certification is so
big that it effectively deters anyone from undertaking it.
However the Su-29 and 31; Yak-54 have obtained AR 23 Full
Certification.
In Western countries, Lithuania has gone through a process of Type
Certification for Yak-54, and Hungary has Type Certificated the Sukhois
and the Yak-18T. The view of EASA has been that Hungarian
certifications were not sufficiently thorough for EASA to automatically
accept them, but EASA felt that the Sukhois / Yak-54 / 18T were all
aeroplanes that should be Type Certificated, and therefore proposed a
"short cut" certification process to go from the historical Russian code
(for 18T) and AR 23, (for Sukhois and Yak-54). EASA emphasised that
this would be a genuine short cut; would be genuinely cheap; most of the
work would be done by themselves. However none of the Russians would
agree to cooperate and provide the data/flight test reports etc that
would be needed.
Very fortunately EASA took a very sensible view and did not, as they
could have, relegate all these aeroplanes into "Annexe 2" (see below),
and on an initial basis have given them EASA "Permits to Fly".
The practicality is that these planes can fly without effective
restrictions throughout Europe; be maintained anywhere within Europe
etc.
It is now the intension of EASA to change from Permits to Fly (which
had always been intended as a temporary category) into long term
Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness. Hopefully this process will
begin in the next few months.
Hans Oortman is wrong to say that Yak-52 and 50 are "on the EASA
list". Sure they are on an EASA list - which is their Annexe 2.
Annexe 2 is for aircraft that are NOT in the jurisdiction of EASA, and
this includes a huge spectrum of aircraft such as Home-built; Warbirds;
aircraft produced before Type Certified standards AND Yak-50 and 52.
The whole point of Annexe 2 is that these aeroplanes are not the
responsibility of EASA, but are handled by the local National Aviation
Authority in each country. Fortunately as we know only to well, there
is no uniformity amongst European countries as to how this should be
handled.
So, if it is a type that currently gets an EASA "Permit to Fly" like
a Sukhoi/18T etc, no problem to bring one into Europe.
If not, today you have the possibility of Russian registration, or
you have a Restricted Certificate from another country, coupled with a
"Over-Fly" Permission from your own, or you try to get it accepted by
your own NAA!
Hope that this helps.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m
atronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Paintball tank? |
Hi.
That is very high pressure. Where do you have it filled?
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 12:11 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Paintball tank?
>
> Started researching my spare air travel tank. The paintball folks have
> some amazing 4800psi tanks available. Has anybody tried this route?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199588#199588
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Yes for other reasons than spar start air. The problem is getting them
filled. There are Scuba dealers in just about every large city and the fire
dept. will in some cases fill the SCBA tanks. The fittings were different
for the paintball tank (thread type) requiring the paintball dealer do the
refills.
I'm using my system for fresh air in the cockpit as well as spar start air.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N642K
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 11:12 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Paintball tank?
Started researching my spare air travel tank. The paintball folks have some
amazing 4800psi tanks available. Has anybody tried this route?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199588#199588
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Certification |
I live on an airpark NW of Daytona Beach. Half of our residents are foreig
n
nationals. English with the exception of one German. On the field is a DH
Moth on floats, Chipmunk (very original) and a Jungmiester. We see most of
them (the foreigners) during the cold months, but they are more welcome tha
n
most.
Two mile to the SW is a another private field. 4 mile to the NW is another
airpark with a hard surface runway. 5NE is another private strip. 8 miles
E
is another private strip. All these are active fields.
I am willing to bet you will not find that anyplace in the world.
In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:49:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
Hans,
If you're planning on leaving Holland, you're always welcome here in the US
.
Bring your Yak. There is always room for one more (as my mom always said)
.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: _Hans Oortman_ (mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl)
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:01 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
Richard,
I understand your point. As fars as my intel is concerned the idea is (for
Holland that is) to allow ex warbirds including Yaks, Sukhois etc
to register
in the experimental class where by they will impose a maximum number of
flight hours of 100 per year and maintenance should be done by authorized
technicians for those specific planes. But this is 8 months ago, I don
=99t know what
the latest status is. Quite frankly I have given up on this matter, at the
moment there are about 6 Yaks flying here. If they want to ground those w
=99ll
see what happens. By that time I will have left Netherlands already
I am fed up
with it.
I hear what you saycivil employees don=99t like to take resp
onsibilities and
certainly not here.
Fly safe!
Hans Oortman, MBA, Ph.D.
CEO
STN BV
____________________________________
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: woensdag 20 augustus 2008 9:54
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Certification
Hans-the problem with Annexe 2 is that EASA has no involvment with it,so th
e
individual NAA's can make whatever rules they like in each country,and it i
s
much easier to say "no" than it is to take the responsibility of allowing
strange aircraft to fly!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
_www.russianaeros.com_ (http://www.russianaeros.com/)
----- Original Message -----
From: _Hans Oortman 1_ (mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl)
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
It is the Annexe 2 list which I meant
I have been told by our CAA that eventually, what ever that means, we will
have a category ( the legal term I believe is because of grandfathers right
s)
in Holland where those aircraft will fit.the problem isn
obody told us
when.
Hans
____________________________________
Van: _owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server
@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 2008 17:19
Aan: YAK USA LIST
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Certification
Certification
This is not a simple issue, and to respond to recent postings:
Type Certificates are not something that can be "provided". You need to
start with an aeroplane that has been designed according to a design code t
o
obtain Type Certification, and, effectively, it is impossible to do this
retrospectively.
In terms of the popular Russian light aircraft, the 50/52/55 were designed
to a very high standard, but a military design code.
The 18T was designed to a Russian civil design code - but with which there
are no comparable codes in the West.
The US has FAR 23, and Europe has had JAR 23, which are almost identical.
Following these, some ten years ago, Russia established AR 23, which is
paragraph for paragraph the same, although in some areas, the Russian stand
ard in
more demanding.
HOWEVER, given the lack of bilateral agreements between Russia and the West
,
the Russian Type Certification is not automatically accepted in the West.
Also, the cost within Russia of obtaining Type Certification is so big tha
t
it effectively deters anyone from undertaking it.
However the Su-29 and 31; Yak-54 have obtained AR 23 Full Certification.
In Western countries, Lithuania has gone through a process of Type
Certification for Yak-54, and Hungary has Type Certificated the Sukhois and
the
Yak-18T. The view of EASA has been that Hungarian certifications were not
sufficiently thorough for EASA to automatically accept them, but EASA felt
that the
Sukhois / Yak-54 / 18T were all aeroplanes that should be Type Certificated
,
and therefore proposed a "short cut" certification process to go from the
historical Russian code (for 18T) and AR 23, (for Sukhois and Yak-54). E
ASA
emphasised that this would be a genuine short cut; would be genuinely cheap
;
most of the work would be done by themselves. However none of the Russian
s
would agree to cooperate and provide the data/flight test reports etc that
would be needed.
Very fortunately EASA took a very sensible view and did not, as they could
have, relegate all these aeroplanes into "Annexe 2" (see below), and on an
initial basis have given them EASA "Permits to Fly".
The practicality is that these planes can fly without effective restriction
s
throughout Europe; be maintained anywhere within Europe etc.
It is now the intension of EASA to change from Permits to Fly (which had
always been intended as a temporary category) into long term Restricted
Certificates of Airworthiness. Hopefully this process will begin in the ne
xt few
months.
Hans Oortman is wrong to say that Yak-52 and 50 are "on the EASA list".
Sure they are on an EASA list - which is their Annexe 2. Annexe 2 is for
aircraft that are NOT in the jurisdiction of EASA, and this includes a huge
spectrum of aircraft such as Home-built; Warbirds; aircraft produced before
Type
Certified standards AND Yak-50 and 52.
The whole point of Annexe 2 is that these aeroplanes are not the
responsibility of EASA, but are handled by the local National Aviation Auth
ority in each
country. Fortunately as we know only to well, there is no uniformity
amongst European countries as to how this should be handled.
So, if it is a type that currently gets an EASA "Permit to Fly" like a
Sukhoi/18T etc, no problem to bring one into Europe.
If not, today you have the possibility of Russian registration, or you have
a Restricted Certificate from another country, coupled with a "Over-Fly"
Permission from your own, or you try to get it accepted by your own NAA!
Hope that this helps.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
_www.russianaeros.com_ (http://www.russianaeros.com/)
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Na
vigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your trave
l
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Certification |
Sounds like you should move Pappy, too damn much traffic!
Lefty
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Certification
I live on an airpark NW of Daytona Beach. Half of our residents are
foreign nationals. English with the exception of one German. On the
field is a DH Moth on floats, Chipmunk (very original) and a
Jungmiester. We see most of them (the foreigners) during the cold
months, but they are more welcome than most.
Two mile to the SW is a another private field. 4 mile to the NW is
another airpark with a hard surface runway. 5NE is another private
strip. 8 miles E is another private strip. All these are active
fields.
I am willing to bet you will not find that anyplace in the world.
In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:49:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
Hans,
If you're planning on leaving Holland, you're always welcome here in
the US. Bring your Yak. There is always room for one more (as my mom
always said).
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 4:01 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
Richard,
I understand your point. As fars as my intel is concerned the idea
is (for Holland that is) to allow ex warbirds including Yaks,
Sukhois etc to register in the experimental class where by they will
impose a maximum number of flight hours of 100 per year and maintenance
should be done by authorized technicians for those specific planes. But
this is 8 months ago, I don=99t know what the latest status is.
Quite frankly I have given up on this matter, at the moment there are
about 6 Yaks flying here. If they want to ground those w=99ll see
what happens. By that time I will have left Netherlands
alreadyI am fed up with it.
I hear what you saycivil employees don=99t like to
take responsibilities and certainly not here.
Fly safe!
Hans Oortman, MBA, Ph.D.
CEO
STN BV
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: woensdag 20 augustus 2008 9:54
Aan: yak-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Certification
Hans-the problem with Annexe 2 is that EASA has no involvment with
it,so the individual NAA's can make whatever rules they like in each
country,and it is much easier to say "no" than it is to take the
responsibility of allowing strange aircraft to fly!
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Hans Oortman 1
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Certification
It is the Annexe 2 list which I meant
I have been told by our CAA that eventually, what ever that
means, we will have a category ( the legal term I believe is because of
grandfathers rights) in Holland where those aircraft will
fit.the problem isnobody told us when.
Hans
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Richard Goode
Verzonden: dinsdag 19 augustus 2008 17:19
Aan: YAK USA LIST
Onderwerp: Yak-List: Certification
Certification
This is not a simple issue, and to respond to recent postings:
Type Certificates are not something that can be "provided". You
need to start with an aeroplane that has been designed according to a
design code to obtain Type Certification, and, effectively, it is
impossible to do this retrospectively.
In terms of the popular Russian light aircraft, the 50/52/55
were designed to a very high standard, but a military design code.
The 18T was designed to a Russian civil design code - but with
which there are no comparable codes in the West.
The US has FAR 23, and Europe has had JAR 23, which are almost
identical. Following these, some ten years ago, Russia established AR
23, which is paragraph for paragraph the same, although in some areas,
the Russian standard in more demanding.
HOWEVER, given the lack of bilateral agreements between Russia
and the West, the Russian Type Certification is not automatically
accepted in the West.
Also, the cost within Russia of obtaining Type Certification is
so big that it effectively deters anyone from undertaking it.
However the Su-29 and 31; Yak-54 have obtained AR 23 Full
Certification.
In Western countries, Lithuania has gone through a process of
Type Certification for Yak-54, and Hungary has Type Certificated the
Sukhois and the Yak-18T. The view of EASA has been that Hungarian
certifications were not sufficiently thorough for EASA to automatically
accept them, but EASA felt that the Sukhois / Yak-54 / 18T were all
aeroplanes that should be Type Certificated, and therefore proposed a
"short cut" certification process to go from the historical Russian code
(for 18T) and AR 23, (for Sukhois and Yak-54). EASA emphasised that
this would be a genuine short cut; would be genuinely cheap; most of the
work would be done by themselves. However none of the Russians would
agree to cooperate and provide the data/flight test reports etc that
would be needed.
Very fortunately EASA took a very sensible view and did not, as
they could have, relegate all these aeroplanes into "Annexe 2" (see
below), and on an initial basis have given them EASA "Permits to Fly".
The practicality is that these planes can fly without effective
restrictions throughout Europe; be maintained anywhere within Europe
etc.
It is now the intension of EASA to change from Permits to Fly
(which had always been intended as a temporary category) into long term
Restricted Certificates of Airworthiness. Hopefully this process will
begin in the next few months.
Hans Oortman is wrong to say that Yak-52 and 50 are "on the EASA
list". Sure they are on an EASA list - which is their Annexe 2.
Annexe 2 is for aircraft that are NOT in the jurisdiction of EASA, and
this includes a huge spectrum of aircraft such as Home-built; Warbirds;
aircraft produced before Type Certified standards AND Yak-50 and 52.
The whole point of Annexe 2 is that these aeroplanes are not the
responsibility of EASA, but are handled by the local National Aviation
Authority in each country. Fortunately as we know only to well, there
is no uniformity amongst European countries as to how this should be
handled.
So, if it is a type that currently gets an EASA "Permit to Fly"
like a Sukhoi/18T etc, no problem to bring one into Europe.
If not, today you have the possibility of Russian registration,
or you have a Restricted Certificate from another country, coupled with
a "Over-Fly" Permission from your own, or you try to get it accepted by
your own NAA!
Hope that this helps.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m
atronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com
and is believed to be clean.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?Yak-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
8/20/2008 8:12 AM
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Paintball tank? |
What size paintball tanks are you using? My local paintball field will fill 3000
and 4500 tanks for $5.00. The 4500 tanks are pricey but thats a lot more air.
Is a 48ci 3000 psi tank sufficient?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199728#199728
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minutes during landing, then
the right one (only) disappears almost completely. Pads are good. Left one
is perfect.
Do they fade that fast, or could it be something more expensive then fading?
Thanks.
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 18T carb air box |
Can anyone tell me if the carb air boxes on a Yak18T and a Y52 are the
same?
Thanks
Joe
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
They fade fast....but usually only when you really need them!
Jj
YAK 50
In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:55:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
czech6@mesanetworks.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill Geipel" <czech6@mesanetworks.net>
I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minutes during landing, then
the right one (only) disappears almost completely. Pads are good. Left one
is perfect.
Do they fade that fast, or could it be something more expensive then fading?
Thanks.
**************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
deal here.
(http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Check your brake differential valve pressure to your right wheel=2C it shou
ld be at most 120 psi at full squeeze.> From: czech6@mesanetworks.net> To:
yak-list@matronics.com> Subject: Yak-List: No Brakes!> Date: Wed=2C 20 Aug
6@mesanetworks.net>> > I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minu
tes during landing=2C then> the right one (only) disappears almost complete
ly. Pads are good. Left one> is perfect.> Do they fade that fast=2C or coul
========================> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Be the filmmaker you always wanted to be=97learn how to burn a DVD with Win
dows=AE.
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have flown Yak 52's (about 20 different airplanes) over a thousand
hours...and have not had any meaningful brake fade incidents...even
in long taxiis with crosswind. Brakes are good if one manages them
properly.
Any drum brake will eventually fade if ridden heavily without
opportunity to cool between applications.
Roger___________________________________________________________________
______
On Aug 20, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Jetj01@aol.com wrote:
> They fade fast....but usually only when you really need them!
>
> Jj
> YAK 50
>
> In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:55:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> czech6@mesanetworks.net writes:
> <czech6@mesanetworks.net>
>
> I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minutes during
> landing, then
> the right one (only) disappears almost completely. Pads are good.
> Left one
> is perfect.
> Do they fade that fast, or could it be something more expensive
> then =======================
> es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; -
> List Contribution Web Site ;
> ========================
>
>
> It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
> deal here.
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Do not know what your technique is but I just squeeze and release
intermitently. I also let the aircraft roll out on the runway to the end not
trying to stop it for the short turn off (fox trot). If you have a
downhill taxi, take it real slow with the idle back at the stops or they
will fade on you real quick there too. Heating up the brakes and having them
fade is common with the YAK. They do not get ventilation to cool the pads.
Some people have drilled the rivets out of the dust and mud covers to get
better ventilation to the brake shoes. If that is done, the center section
of the dust cover needs to be trimmed to make a center disc to keep the felt
for the wheel bearing covered. I have not done that so I do not know how
that works for keeping the shoes cooler.
The times I have heated up my brakes with them fading out, after that I
pulled the wheels and scrubbed the pads with emery cloth to remove the
glaze. I also roughed up the inside of the brake drum too for the same
reason. It seemed to improve my braking after doing that.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jetj01@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: No Brakes!
They fade fast....but usually only when you really need them!
Jj
YAK 50
In a message dated 8/20/2008 7:55:23 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
czech6@mesanetworks.net writes:
I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minutes during landing, then
the right one (only) disappears almost completely. Pads are good. Left one
is perfect.
Do they fade that fast, or could it be something more expensive then
=======================
es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List
Contribution Web Site ; ========================
_____
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
<http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047> here.
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Paintball tank? |
Mike,
I'm not using a paintball tank. I'm using a 3200 psi Scuba pony tank. I had
a high pressure line installed on the Stage I from Scuba Pro then I attached
a pressure gauge in series with the pressure line that connects to the
Schrader valve with a strut pump coupler from Aircraft Tool Supply.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N642K
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Paintball tank?
What size paintball tanks are you using? My local paintball field will fill
3000 and 4500 tanks for $5.00. The 4500 tanks are pricey but thats a lot
more air. Is a 48ci 3000 psi tank sufficient?
Thanks in advance.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=199728#199728
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hey Dawg, you wanna buy a good used tailhook? Only used a hundred times by
a little Scooter.
Fly Navy! : )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Geipel" <czech6@mesanetworks.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 6:55 PM
Subject: Yak-List: No Brakes!
>
> I have a Yak 52. My brakes work great for a few minutes during landing,
> then
> the right one (only) disappears almost completely. Pads are good. Left one
> is perfect.
> Do they fade that fast, or could it be something more expensive then
> fading?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 8:12 AM
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|