---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/05/08: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Re: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert (A. Dennis Savarese) 2. 05:17 AM - CJ Water Filter Bracket (Jim Shanks) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert (Keith McKinley) 4. 01:11 PM - Re: Metric screws etc (Peter K. Van Staagen) 5. 01:57 PM - Re: Yak-52 heavy spar (Pete M) 6. 02:17 PM - Re: Metric screws etc (doug sapp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:06 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert Keith, If the aircraft were registered in the Standard Category like a Cessna, Piper or Beechcraft, yes the airworthiness certificate would stay with the aircraft. With our aircraft, FAA Order 8130.2F Chg 3 governs the process. Whenever the aircraft is moved from one homebase airport to another, it requires the reissuance of the Operating Limitations AND the Special Airworthiness Certificate. The two documents are effectively "married" together. And that includes a relocation to another home base airport, even if it is only 5 miles away. Although you can't stop the inspector or FSDO from ever inspecting the airplane anytime, it should not be necessary if the airplane has a current annual condition inspection signed off in the aircraft's log books, and it already has the Special Airworthiness Certificate (which obviously it has). Usually, the only time a FSDO inspector typically gets involved with inspecting one of our aircraft is for the very first issuance of the airworthiness certificate and operating limitations. Once the airplane has been issued its first set of OL's and Special Airworthiness Certificate, usually the FSDO only asks for copies of your log books showing the current condition inspection along with the OL's and Airworthiness Certificate and most importantly, the actual hard copy current registration which must show your present address, and he/she will issue the new OL's and Special Airworthiness Certificate. You could ask a legitimate question like, "Since the airplane presently has an annual condition inspection as documented in the airplane's log books and it was already issued OL's and a Special Airworthiness Certificate from it's previous location, why is it necessary to reinspect the airplane? Not that it matters, but I'm just curious why?" Many of these airplanes are relocated each year and the people who own them have had the OL's and Special Airworthiness Certificate reissued as required by FAA Order 8130.2F Chg 3. But there was no mandatory requirement to reinspect an airplane that already has a current annual condition inspection signed off by an A&P, who is an FAA authorized inspector. Many FSDO inspectors do not understand what is required for Experimental Exhibition category airplanes. Sometimes they are all over the map and make your experience with them very frustrating. Try to work with them by being knowledgeable (like you are trying to do now) and suggest that you can point them to other FSDO inspectors who have done many of these types of aircraft, thus shortening the paperwork processing cycle. But as I said, if they want to inspect, let them. They have the right to do it. As I previously mentioned, be sure the aircraft's registration is current. If not, they can not issue the OL's and Special Airworthiness Certificate. Also make sure the new OL's that will be issued do not have the 300 NM proficiency area anywhere in them. That was rescinded on September 11, 2007 by Memorandum, see attached. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:19 PM Subject: Yak-List: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert > > > Hello, > > I'm a new CJ owner. This aircraft came from an airport under the > Sacramento FSDO which signed off on the current ops limits and > Airworthiness cert. I am now in the Windsor Locks area. Sent the FSDO my > program letter and asked them to re-issue the ops limits. Almost a month > later and no operating limitations and they want to inspect the A/C and > re-issue my airworthiness cert. > > Is re-issuing the Airworthiness Cert a normal procedure? I thought these > went with the aircraft? > > Do I need to just play nice? > > Keith > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2658#202658 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:08 AM PST US From: "Jim Shanks" Subject: Yak-List: CJ Water Filter Bracket Hey Y'all, Upgrading from the short water filter to the long one and need another bracket for the firewall. Doug ain't got one - I would rather use an original bracket than make it work with a couple of Adel clamps on one side. Any one got a spare bracket they're willing to part with? Thanks, Jim Shanks shankeroid@verizon.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:34 AM PST US From: Keith McKinley Subject: Re: Yak-List: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert Great post Dennis! Thanks! Keith On Sep 5, 2008, at 7:47 AM, A. Dennis Savarese wrote: > Keith, > If the aircraft were registered in the Standard Category like a > Cessna, Piper or Beechcraft, yes the airworthiness certificate > would stay with the aircraft. With our aircraft, FAA Order 8130.2F > Chg 3 governs the process. Whenever the aircraft is moved from one > homebase airport to another, it requires the reissuance of the > Operating Limitations AND the Special Airworthiness Certificate. > The two documents are effectively "married" together. And that > includes a relocation to another home base airport, even if it is > only 5 miles away. > > Although you can't stop the inspector or FSDO from ever inspecting > the airplane anytime, it should not be necessary if the airplane > has a current annual condition inspection signed off in the > aircraft's log books, and it already has the Special Airworthiness > Certificate (which obviously it has). Usually, the only time a FSDO > inspector typically gets involved with inspecting one of our > aircraft is for the very first issuance of the airworthiness > certificate and operating limitations. > > Once the airplane has been issued its first set of OL's and Special > Airworthiness Certificate, usually the FSDO only asks for copies of > your log books showing the current condition inspection along with > the OL's and Airworthiness Certificate and most importantly, the > actual hard copy current registration which must show your present > address, and he/she will issue the new OL's and Special > Airworthiness Certificate. > > You could ask a legitimate question like, "Since the airplane > presently has an annual condition inspection as documented in the > airplane's log books and it was already issued OL's and a Special > Airworthiness Certificate from it's previous location, why is it > necessary to reinspect the airplane? Not that it matters, but I'm > just curious why?" Many of these airplanes are relocated each > year and the people who own them have had the OL's and Special > Airworthiness Certificate reissued as required by FAA Order 8130.2F > Chg 3. But there was no mandatory requirement to reinspect an > airplane that already has a current annual condition inspection > signed off by an A&P, who is an FAA authorized inspector. > > Many FSDO inspectors do not understand what is required for > Experimental Exhibition category airplanes. Sometimes they are all > over the map and make your experience with them very frustrating. > Try to work with them by being knowledgeable (like you are trying > to do now) and suggest that you can point them to other FSDO > inspectors who have done many of these types of aircraft, thus > shortening the paperwork processing cycle. But as I said, if they > want to inspect, let them. They have the right to do it. > > As I previously mentioned, be sure the aircraft's registration is > current. If not, they can not issue the OL's and Special > Airworthiness Certificate. Also make sure the new OL's that will be > issued do not have the 300 NM proficiency area anywhere in them. > That was rescinded on September 11, 2007 by Memorandum, see attached. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "keithmckinley" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:19 PM > Subject: Yak-List: New FSDO and special airworthiness cert > > >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I'm a new CJ owner. This aircraft came from an airport under the >> Sacramento FSDO which signed off on the current ops limits and >> Airworthiness cert. I am now in the Windsor Locks area. Sent the >> FSDO my program letter and asked them to re-issue the ops limits. >> Almost a month later and no operating limitations and they want to >> inspect the A/C and re-issue my airworthiness cert. >> >> Is re-issuing the Airworthiness Cert a normal procedure? I thought >> these went with the aircraft? >> >> Do I need to just play nice? >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2658#202658 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:27 PM PST US From: "Peter K. Van Staagen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Metric screws etc I bought 500 4mm and 200 5mm and have a few left on my yak. I put a nylon washer underneath each screw to prevent any corrosion between the ss screw and the aluminum. Even though the screws varied in length from 8 to 12 mm, I bought all 12mm and had no problems. I bought the screws wholesale for about $19 per hundred, and the washers from McMaster Carr. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skidmk Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:27 PM Subject: Yak-List: Metric screws etc Looking to replace all my painted screws on the airframe with Stainless ones... has anyone done this? I prefer phillip heads to slotted, would anyone know how many 4mm or 5mm I would require. M -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2608#202608 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:29 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-52 heavy spar From: "Pete M" Richard, What do you know about main spar corrosion? We recently trashed a 1983 build 52 because of it. Is there an issue with the quality of metal used? -------- Pete M G-CBRL 83-3708 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2809#202809 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:50 PM PST US From: "doug sapp" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Metric screws etc Guys, There are many styles of Phillips head screws, some pan head, some truss head, some low profile truss head just to name a few. They come in many different profiles, pitches and head styles. If you want the correct screw you've got to know what to ask for. If you call MMC and ask for 4mm philips head screws you just might end up with something that would be correct to use on your tractor rather than the correct sized screw, with the correct thread pitch and the correct head profile. I have sold thousands of these screws in the past years. The possibility of dissimilar metal corrosion on the painted surface under the screw head is zip to nil, but the nylon washer does help a bunch to protect the paint. On newer/softer paints the base of the screw head will become "bonded" to the painted surface, when the screw is removed at a later date it breaks the paint loose around the screw head, the nylon washer prevents this, this is the main reason the nylon washers are used. Best from Omak, Doug On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 1:06 PM, Peter K. Van Staagen wrote: > petervs@knology.net> > > I bought 500 4mm and 200 5mm and have a few left on my yak. I put a nylon > washer underneath each screw to prevent any corrosion between the ss screw > and the aluminum. Even though the screws varied in length from 8 to 12 mm, > I > bought all 12mm and had no problems. I bought the screws wholesale for > about > $19 per hundred, and the washers from McMaster Carr. > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skidmk > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 3:27 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Metric screws etc > > > Looking to replace all my painted screws on the airframe with Stainless > ones... has anyone done this? I prefer phillip heads to slotted, would > anyone know how many 4mm or 5mm I would require. > > M > > -------- > Mike "Skidmk" Bourget > Ottawa, Ontario > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2608#202608 > > -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.