Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:19 AM - FW: FW: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow to general aviation (Bill Geipel)
2. 06:57 AM - FAA and Compensation (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
3. 07:04 AM - Re: FW: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow to general aviation (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 08:48 AM - Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (N642K)
5. 09:13 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (keithmckinley)
6. 09:15 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (N642K)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (doug sapp)
8. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 09:45 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Walter Lannon)
10. 09:56 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (doug sapp)
11. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Walter Lannon)
12. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Keith McKinley)
13. 10:25 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (keithmckinley)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (N642K)
15. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
16. 12:54 PM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (keithmckinley)
17. 02:34 PM - Re: FW: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow to general aviation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 02:58 PM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
19. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
20. 03:59 PM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (dabear)
21. 05:03 PM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Robert Langford)
22. 05:19 PM - Re: FW: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow to general aviation (Bill Geipel)
23. 07:29 PM - Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - an (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
24. 07:41 PM - Re: Lamar Clinic (Craig Winkelmann, CFI)
25. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Walter Lannon)
26. 08:33 PM - Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (keithmckinley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- another blow to general aviation
_____
From: dgilliss@earthlink.net [mailto:dgilliss@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at
airshows - another blow to general aviation
91.147 is a continuation of 91.146-Charitable flights, except it addresses
fee-based flights, a reg aimed at flights in light aircraft.The Feds have
made charitable flights (money raising by giving rides) a nightmare,
essentially eliminating it as a possibility due to the onerous requirements
(drug testing, advanced notice, approval, etc.) For airshows, it is
generally not applicable. Giving a VIP a flight is not a charitable flight
and should not be a fee-based flight. Experimental Exhibition aircraft may
receive compensation or fuel or both when flying or static at an airshow.
The pilot must have a commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it.
What becomes a problem is VIP rides. Sponsors often expect flights in
military aircraft because their company gave money to the event. If the
total fuel/compensation is contracted for in advance and there are no
extra-fuel-for-more-rides agreements at the show there should be no problem.
It is the flights for hire/fee that cause a problem. The FSDO inspector
citing 91.147 is unknowledgeable. If he knew what he was doing he would cite
91.319, which has a blanket exclusion for flights for compensation in
Experimental Exhibition aircraft, except for the exclusions in section (h)
of that reg. The only way to fly VIPs legally, though marginally so, is to
have a fixed amount of fuel/compensation for the appearance, whether flying
or static, and then elect to take a passenger on a flight the pilot flies,
effectively without compensation. If there is waivered airspace during the
flight, virtually all FSDOs will prohibit passengers (the only exception in
their handbooks is for required crew or safety of flight--a pilot rated in
the plane on a formation flight, for example).
On page 9 of the March 2006 issue of the FAA Aviation News (attached) is the
Flying For Dollars article that discusses these issues. FAA inspectors have
generally followed it, since it appeared in their magazine.
DG
Douglas Gilliss
249 South Pacific Coast Highway
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(619) 888-6510
FAX (619) 330-1870
dgilliss@earthlink.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | FAA and Compensation |
Folks:
I am not a bit surprised by what is reported at WS Airshow. Civil Air Patrol provides
cadet orientation flights for cadet members of the program. A year or
two ago, the FAA determined that if the pilots who were flying the cadets logged
the flight time they were being compensated for flying. The extrapolation
was that pilots were not paying for the fuel on those flights so they were logging
free time that many pilots use toward experience requirements for higher
ratings. They also dictated that pilots must be commercial rated.
The FAA and CAP finally resolved the issue after much legal wrangling.
So, now you see how the FAA can extrapolate anything they want. As always, they
put the burden on CAP and CAP pilots to resolve the matter.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3799#203799
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- another blow to general aviation
Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow
to general aviationThe article link:
http://www.faa.gov/news/aviation_news/2006/media/marapr2006.pdf
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Geipel
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: FW: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: dgilliss@earthlink.net [mailto:dgilliss@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:36 PM
To: Bill Geipel
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
91.147 is a continuation of 91.146-Charitable flights, except it
addresses fee-based flights, a reg aimed at flights in light
aircraft.The Feds have made charitable flights (money raising by giving
rides) a nightmare, essentially eliminating it as a possibility due to
the onerous requirements (drug testing, advanced notice, approval, etc.)
For airshows, it is generally not applicable. Giving a VIP a flight is
not a charitable flight and should not be a fee-based flight.
Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an airshow. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it.
What becomes a problem is VIP rides. Sponsors often expect flights in
military aircraft because their company gave money to the event. If the
total fuel/compensation is contracted for in advance and there are no
extra-fuel-for-more-rides agreements at the show there should be no
problem. It is the flights for hire/fee that cause a problem. The FSDO
inspector citing 91.147 is unknowledgeable. If he knew what he was doing
he would cite 91.319, which has a blanket exclusion for flights for
compensation in Experimental Exhibition aircraft, except for the
exclusions in section (h) of that reg. The only way to fly VIPs legally,
though marginally so, is to have a fixed amount of fuel/compensation for
the appearance, whether flying or static, and then elect to take a
passenger on a flight the pilot flies, effectively without compensation.
If there is waivered airspace during the flight, virtually all FSDOs
will prohibit passengers (the only exception in their handbooks is for
required crew or safety of flight--a pilot rated in the plane on a
formation flight, for example).
On page 9 of the March 2006 issue of the FAA Aviation News (attached)
is the Flying For Dollars article that discusses these issues. FAA
inspectors have generally followed it, since it appeared in their
magazine.
DG
Douglas Gilliss
249 South Pacific Coast Highway
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(619) 888-6510
FAX (619) 330-1870
dgilliss@earthlink.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Ok, I have a new water separator and the correct main air dialed in (it had been
way too high). The emerg pressure has remained exactly where it was. Is there
another adjustment?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3817#203817
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
I just did the exact same thing and adjusted my air to 43 ATM. Before I did that,
however, I bleed down the emergency bottle. It's running a tad higher than
the main pressure but I believe that is fairly normal. I don't believe, as a previous
post suggests, that it is due to the bottle sizes. If the emergency bottle
was bleed to zero it makes sense that it should never go higher than the
pop off valve setting.
Of course there is the issue of gauge accuracy as well.
Keith
N700hs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3820#203820
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Thanks Keith, but how do you bleed it down?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3823#203823
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
On a CJ6 the only pressure adjustment is the H2-5502-00 "pop of valve".
Both the main and emergency air tanks fill at the same time and BOTH are
limited as to their pressure by the setting of this valve. So if your system
is plumbed "normally" (no aftermarket changes in the system) all the gauges
(all are P/N BYQ80-1A) should read the same 45 to 50 ATMS. *The key here is
to first make sure your main air gauge is correct and reads 45 to 50 ATMS
when your pop off valve starts relieving the pressure.* Then and only
then can be secure in the knowledge that if your emergency gauges read
higher, the problem is simply a bad gauge and not a potentially dangerous
situation.
Hope this helps.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 8:47 AM, N642K <mdecanio@mac.com> wrote:
>
> Ok, I have a new water separator and the correct main air dialed in (it had
> been way too high). The emerg pressure has remained exactly where it was.
> Is there another adjustment?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3817#203817
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
In a message dated 9/11/2008 12:17:06 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mdecanio@mac.com writes:
Simply by loosening the "B" nut on the down stream of the check valve which
is on the firewall. You'll hear the air escaping. After the pressure goes
to zero, simply re tighten the "B" nut - safety wire it - and you're good to
go.
Pappy
--> Yak-List message posted by: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
Thanks Keith, but how do you bleed it down?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3823#203823
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
The charging air into the emergency tank goes through a non-return check
valve on the RH side of the CJ firewall. If it has previously been charged
to a higher value than the current relief valve setting there can be no
change to the emerg. pressure since the check valve will not open.
If that is the case you must bleed some pressure from the emerg. tank by
loosening a fitting at the check valve, the tank or at either valve. If at
the valve find the pipeline going to the tank.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
> Ok, I have a new water separator and the correct main air dialed in (it
> had been way too high). The emerg pressure has remained exactly where it
> was. Is there another adjustment?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3817#203817
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Sorry guys, I should have specified that you need to start with empty tanks
to do the process correctly. Thanks Walt!
Doug
On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca> wrote:
>
> The charging air into the emergency tank goes through a non-return check
> valve on the RH side of the CJ firewall. If it has previously been charged
> to a higher value than the current relief valve setting there can be no
> change to the emerg. pressure since the check valve will not open.
>
> If that is the case you must bleed some pressure from the emerg. tank by
> loosening a fitting at the check valve, the tank or at either valve. If at
> the valve find the pipeline going to the tank.
>
> Walt
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:47 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
>
>>
>> Ok, I have a new water separator and the correct main air dialed in (it
>> had been way too high). The emerg pressure has remained exactly where it
>> was. Is there another adjustment?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3817#203817
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Typically I find that the emerg. air pressure will gradually creep up to
about 5 ATM more than the main air.
As mentioned in a previous post I suggested this was due to difference in
the size of the two systems (not the tanks.). The main system includes
landing gear, flaps, brakes and air start with all the various pipelines,
fittings, actuators, shuttle valves, check-valves, flare joints, etc, etc.
By comparison, with the ermerg. valves closed, the emerg. "system" consists
of one tank, two pipelines and one check valve.
Is it any wonder the Emergency side is far less susceptible to leakage than
the Main?
Not really necessary to reduce the emerg. pressure to zero. Anything lower
than the relief valve setting will do.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:13 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> I just did the exact same thing and adjusted my air to 43 ATM. Before I
> did that, however, I bleed down the emergency bottle. It's running a tad
> higher than the main pressure but I believe that is fairly normal. I don't
> believe, as a previous post suggests, that it is due to the bottle sizes.
> If the emergency bottle was bleed to zero it makes sense that it should
> never go higher than the pop off valve setting.
>
> Of course there is the issue of gauge accuracy as well.
>
> Keith
> N700hs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3820#203820
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
bleed the main air bottle and close the valve then open the emergency
valve and cycle the flaps. It takes a bit to do it but it only needs
to be less than the pressure you intend to set on the pop off valve.
Keith
On Sep 11, 2008, at 12:15 PM, N642K wrote:
>
> Thanks Keith, but how do you bleed it down?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3823#203823
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
All the posts regarding loosening fittings to relieve pressure are fine but I guess
I just hate to loosen and re-tighten if it isn't leaking and I can do it
by other means.
That's just me
Keith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3842#203842
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3845#203845
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Don't forget, the shuttle valves for the landing gear actuators will move to
the opposite side if you open the emergency valve. To insure the landing
gear will operate properly after you close the emergency air valve, you must
bleed off the pressure on the emergency side of the shuttle valves. If you
don't do this, there is a very good chance the landing gear will not
function properly.
Walt's suggestion for bleeding the emergency system down is the way you
should do it. That way you won't have to deal with the shuttle valves.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:37 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
> Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3845#203845
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a problem unless
there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in move back and forth. But
in any case a good reason to make sure the gear is cycled on the emergency
bottle while on jacks for the annual.
K
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
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| Subject: | Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- another blow to general aviation
Not to be argumentative, but you said:
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
Excuse me... You say this based on what? Personal experience? Personal
opinion? Conversation with an FAA Official?
Point being, I would really like to see what you commented on in writing
with an FAA sig. at the bottom of it. My problem is the amount of
"differences in opinion" that seem to be legally allowable between FAA
FISDO's.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:20
Subject: FW: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
________________________________
From: dgilliss@earthlink.net [mailto:dgilliss@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
91.147 is a continuation of 91.146-Charitable flights, except it
addresses fee-based flights, a reg aimed at flights in light
aircraft.The Feds have made charitable flights (money raising by giving
rides) a nightmare, essentially eliminating it as a possibility due to
the onerous requirements (drug testing, advanced notice, approval, etc.)
For airshows, it is generally not applicable. Giving a VIP a flight is
not a charitable flight and should not be a fee-based flight.
Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an airshow. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it.
What becomes a problem is VIP rides. Sponsors often expect flights in
military aircraft because their company gave money to the event. If the
total fuel/compensation is contracted for in advance and there are no
extra-fuel-for-more-rides agreements at the show there should be no
problem. It is the flights for hire/fee that cause a problem. The FSDO
inspector citing 91.147 is unknowledgeable. If he knew what he was doing
he would cite 91.319, which has a blanket exclusion for flights for
compensation in Experimental Exhibition aircraft, except for the
exclusions in section (h) of that reg. The only way to fly VIPs legally,
though marginally so, is to have a fixed amount of fuel/compensation for
the appearance, whether flying or static, and then elect to take a
passenger on a flight the pilot flies, effectively without compensation.
If there is waivered airspace during the flight, virtually all FSDOs
will prohibit passengers (the only exception in their handbooks is for
required crew or safety of flight--a pilot rated in the plane on a
formation flight, for example).
On page 9 of the March 2006 issue of the FAA Aviation News (attached) is
the Flying For Dollars article that discusses these issues. FAA
inspectors have generally followed it, since it appeared in their
magazine.
DG
Douglas Gilliss
249 South Pacific Coast Highway
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(619) 888-6510
FAX (619) 330-1870
dgilliss@earthlink.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
With pressure on the shuttle valve from the emergency side, the ball in the
shuttle valve moves to the other side blocking off the main side.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:53 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a problem
> unless there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in move back and
> forth. But in any case a good reason to make sure the gear is cycled on
> the emergency bottle while on jacks for the annual.
>
> K
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
ie: we have counter acting pressure on the shuttle valve. The emergency
system pressure has already moved the ball in the shuttle valve. The main
system pressure would be trying to move the ball the other way, but can't.
Try it sometime. Put the airplane on jacks and raise the landing gear. Now
use the procedure for extending the gear with the emergency air. Once the
gear is down using the emergency air, try raising the gear normally. If the
gear won't go up it's because the ball shuttle valves to the actuators are
moved to the opposite side by the pressure from the emergency system.
Unless you relieve that pressure, the ball will stay there blocking the main
side from functioning properly.
Walt Lannon - would you like to comment on this?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> With pressure on the shuttle valve from the emergency side, the ball in
> the shuttle valve moves to the other side blocking off the main side.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:53 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
>
>> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>
>> Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a problem
>> unless there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in move back
>> and forth. But in any case a good reason to make sure the gear is cycled
>> on the emergency bottle while on jacks for the annual.
>>
>> K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
However, you can remove the air from the emergency side by closing the
emergency valve (engine/compressor not running), and actuating the
flaps/gear/brakes. Once the air is out of the emerg side of the system the
gear can be raised again. One of the biggest issues I have seen over the
years is coming out of annual, once the emerg gear extension is done. It
causes problems with the air system because the shuttle valves have moved
for the first time in a year. Any issues/weaknesses with the shuttle valves
will be seen just after annual.
I'm wondering if I want to test the emergency system every month or so to
limit the issues. Thoughts?
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> ie: we have counter acting pressure on the shuttle valve. The emergency
> system pressure has already moved the ball in the shuttle valve. The main
> system pressure would be trying to move the ball the other way, but can't.
>
> Try it sometime. Put the airplane on jacks and raise the landing gear.
> Now use the procedure for extending the gear with the emergency air. Once
> the gear is down using the emergency air, try raising the gear normally.
> If the gear won't go up it's because the ball shuttle valves to the
> actuators are moved to the opposite side by the pressure from the
> emergency system. Unless you relieve that pressure, the ball will stay
> there blocking the main side from functioning properly.
>
> Walt Lannon - would you like to comment on this?
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> With pressure on the shuttle valve from the emergency side, the ball in
>> the shuttle valve moves to the other side blocking off the main side.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:53 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>>
>>
>>> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>>
>>> Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a
>>> problem unless there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in
>>> move back and forth. But in any case a good reason to make sure the gear
>>> is cycled on the emergency bottle while on jacks for the annual.
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
No!
----- Original Message -----
From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
> Ok, I have a new water separator and the correct main air dialed in (it
> had been way too high). The emerg pressure has remained exactly where it
> was. Is there another adjustment?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3817#203817
>
>
> --
> Checked by AVG.
> 7:03 AM
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- another blow to general aviation
Mark,
I tried to send the entire file but Matronics said it was to big. I will try
again. It is a lengthy article but I'll work on it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at
airshows - another blow to general aviation
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Not to be argumentative, but you said:
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
Excuse me... You say this based on what? Personal experience? Personal
opinion? Conversation with an FAA Official?
Point being, I would really like to see what you commented on in writing
with an FAA sig. at the bottom of it. My problem is the amount of
"differences in opinion" that seem to be legally allowable between FAA
FISDO's.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:20
Subject: FW: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
________________________________
From: dgilliss@earthlink.net [mailto:dgilliss@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
91.147 is a continuation of 91.146-Charitable flights, except it
addresses fee-based flights, a reg aimed at flights in light
aircraft.The Feds have made charitable flights (money raising by giving
rides) a nightmare, essentially eliminating it as a possibility due to
the onerous requirements (drug testing, advanced notice, approval, etc.)
For airshows, it is generally not applicable. Giving a VIP a flight is
not a charitable flight and should not be a fee-based flight.
Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an airshow. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it.
What becomes a problem is VIP rides. Sponsors often expect flights in
military aircraft because their company gave money to the event. If the
total fuel/compensation is contracted for in advance and there are no
extra-fuel-for-more-rides agreements at the show there should be no
problem. It is the flights for hire/fee that cause a problem. The FSDO
inspector citing 91.147 is unknowledgeable. If he knew what he was doing
he would cite 91.319, which has a blanket exclusion for flights for
compensation in Experimental Exhibition aircraft, except for the
exclusions in section (h) of that reg. The only way to fly VIPs legally,
though marginally so, is to have a fixed amount of fuel/compensation for
the appearance, whether flying or static, and then elect to take a
passenger on a flight the pilot flies, effectively without compensation.
If there is waivered airspace during the flight, virtually all FSDOs
will prohibit passengers (the only exception in their handbooks is for
required crew or safety of flight--a pilot rated in the plane on a
formation flight, for example).
On page 9 of the March 2006 issue of the FAA Aviation News (attached) is
the Flying For Dollars article that discusses these issues. FAA
inspectors have generally followed it, since it appeared in their
magazine.
DG
Douglas Gilliss
249 South Pacific Coast Highway
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(619) 888-6510
FAX (619) 330-1870
dgilliss@earthlink.net
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- an
Mark:
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
The intent of the above is correct, the semantic are not - it is the pilot receiving
compensation, not the aircraft (owner). Part 61.133 allows a Commercial
Pilot to receive compensation for flying "persons or property" as long as the
pilot meets the other requirements of Part 61. This is where the Class 2 Medical
is required. As a commercial rated pilot, if you do not renew your Second
Class Medical , it becomes a Third Class Medical and you are now a Private Pilot.
So, in essence, if you are a properly rated commercial pilot, you can accept fuel,
oil, money and/or anything else the FAA considers compensation for flying
a plane (experimental or not) to/from/in an airshow.
Part 91.319 prohibits carrying persons or property for compensation or hire in
an aircraft with an experimental certificate. This applies no matter what pilot
rating the pilot flying the experimental aircraft holds.
So, just don't do any VIP/media rides and you are OK. Or you can do them at your
own expense. However, the FAA will place the burden of truth on you to prove
that the fuel and oil you got for flying to/from the airshow is different from
the fuel you burned, on your own dime, to fly a VIP.
Cheers!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3914#203914
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lamar Clinic |
At the present time, there are four (two sets of two) Strong Squadron Seat parachutes
for use in a CJ or YAK available for sale on Barnstormers.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3916#203916
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Hi Dennis;
Sorry, just got home.
In my opinion you are correct. At every annual after the emergency gear down
test I bleed the air from each actuator to ensure the next gear retraction
will be normal. It takes about 5 minutes.
It can be done by operating the brakes and flaps but may take up to 30
minutes to ensure the emergency down pressure system is reduced to zero.
Even then you would be wise to do a normal gear cycle while still on the
jacks.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>
> ie: we have counter acting pressure on the shuttle valve. The emergency
> system pressure has already moved the ball in the shuttle valve. The main
> system pressure would be trying to move the ball the other way, but can't.
>
> Try it sometime. Put the airplane on jacks and raise the landing gear.
> Now use the procedure for extending the gear with the emergency air. Once
> the gear is down using the emergency air, try raising the gear normally.
> If the gear won't go up it's because the ball shuttle valves to the
> actuators are moved to the opposite side by the pressure from the
> emergency system. Unless you relieve that pressure, the ball will stay
> there blocking the main side from functioning properly.
>
> Walt Lannon - would you like to comment on this?
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:57 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> With pressure on the shuttle valve from the emergency side, the ball in
>> the shuttle valve moves to the other side blocking off the main side.
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:53 PM
>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>>
>>
>>> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>>
>>> Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a
>>> problem unless there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in
>>> move back and forth. But in any case a good reason to make sure the gear
>>> is cycled on the emergency bottle while on jacks for the annual.
>>>
>>> K
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Gents,
This exchange was great! It has really helped educate me on the air system. When
can we start on the electrical system! [Shocked]
Keith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3921#203921
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