Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 08:22 AM - Re: Minneapolis MN Yak-52 open for membership (yak-52@comcast.net)
3. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
4. 11:05 AM - Air System Helpful Tip (Mozam)
5. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - an (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 11:17 AM - Re: FW: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows - another blow to general aviation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 11:56 AM - Re: Air System Helpful Tip (Peter K. Van Staagen)
8. 01:59 PM - Re: Air System Helpful Tip (Keith McKinley)
9. 05:04 PM - Tim Stevens (ByronMFox@aol.com)
10. 06:06 PM - Re: Air System Helpful Tip (Roger Kemp MD)
11. 06:35 PM - Re: Tim Stevens (Rico Jaeger)
12. 11:50 PM - Original Yak accessories (NebraskaYak)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
Yes, that is 100% true. The key point is you must relieve the pressure on
the emergency side or the gear will not operate properly. That why the
original post of opening the emergency knob to reduce the pressure in the
emergency tank is not, in my opinion anyway, the best way to reduce the air
pressure because of exactly the reasons stated. Crack one of the B-nuts and
you won't have the possibility of not being able to retract the landing
gear.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "dabear" <Dabear@damned.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
> However, you can remove the air from the emergency side by closing the
> emergency valve (engine/compressor not running), and actuating the
> flaps/gear/brakes. Once the air is out of the emerg side of the system
> the gear can be raised again. One of the biggest issues I have seen over
> the years is coming out of annual, once the emerg gear extension is done.
> It causes problems with the air system because the shuttle valves have
> moved for the first time in a year. Any issues/weaknesses with the
> shuttle valves will be seen just after annual.
>
> I'm wondering if I want to test the emergency system every month or so to
> limit the issues. Thoughts?
>
> DaBear
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 6:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>
>
>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> ie: we have counter acting pressure on the shuttle valve. The emergency
>> system pressure has already moved the ball in the shuttle valve. The
>> main system pressure would be trying to move the ball the other way, but
>> can't.
>>
>> Try it sometime. Put the airplane on jacks and raise the landing gear.
>> Now use the procedure for extending the gear with the emergency air.
>> Once the gear is down using the emergency air, try raising the gear
>> normally. If the gear won't go up it's because the ball shuttle valves to
>> the actuators are moved to the opposite side by the pressure from the
>> emergency system. Unless you relieve that pressure, the ball will stay
>> there blocking the main side from functioning properly.
>>
>> Walt Lannon - would you like to comment on this?
>> Dennis
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>>
>>
>>> <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>> With pressure on the shuttle valve from the emergency side, the ball in
>>> the shuttle valve moves to the other side blocking off the main side.
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 2:53 PM
>>> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
>>>
>>>
>>>> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>>>>
>>>> Respectfully, I can't really think of a way that there would be a
>>>> problem unless there was a faulty shuttle valve. And you can hear in
>>>> move back and forth. But in any case a good reason to make sure the
>>>> gear is cycled on the emergency bottle while on jacks for the annual.
>>>>
>>>> K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>>
>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3869#203869
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Minneapolis MN Yak-52 open for membership |
Have one new member on board, we invite all future red-star pilots to have a look
at the aircraft and discuss membership.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3963#203963
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/yakcrop_139.jpg
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ? |
What do you want to know about the electrical system, exactly?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of keithmckinley
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 23:33
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Adjusting Emergency Air Pressure in a CJ?
--> <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Gents,
This exchange was great! It has really helped educate me on the air
system. When can we start on the electrical system! [Shocked]
Keith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3921#203921
Message 4
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Subject: | Air System Helpful Tip |
All,
I have learned MUCH on this list, and want to contribute something back.
My air system was leaking down over several days and it appeared (sounded like)
the leak was in the pressure relief valve on the firewall. I had installed a
new piston in the valve just last year and assumed the rubber tip had gone bad
already.
Since the pressure had leaked down to just a hair over 1 on the gauge I assumed
the system was fully depleted. So I carefully removed the top of the valve and
lifted the spring out. I looked inside the valve and saw the piston lying
at the bottom of the valve.
Suddenly, there was quick hiss of air and the piston fired out of the valve, ricocheted
off my head and flew out the hanger. Luckily due to such a small amount
of remaining pressure and a thick skull, no harm was done.
The fact that the piston had been stuck, combined with the piston and valve having
a black carbon-like coating, and the rubber tip being in good shape lead me
to believe the piston was sticking in the cylinder. So, armed with a Q-tip
I searched for something to clear the valve and piston with.
Well, guess what worked great...MARVEL MYSTERY OIL!!!!!
A couple drops of MMO removed all the deposits on the piston and valve and left
them nice and shiny. Now my valve works great and I have absolutely no leak
at all.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3992#203992
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- an
Craig, my question was: What FAA regulations says this? I would like
to read it myself.
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
Fact is that the above quote is not contained in ANY Federal Aviation
Regulation. However, there is an FAA "Interpretation" of the rules that
allows it. In that brief, the FAA specifically says:
"No rides for passengers, no conflict
with the federal aviation regulations.
However, there are some areas
for concern. For example, receiving
fuel for an appearance or demonstration
flight, or cash for that matter, is
fine. However, accepting an offer like:
"We'll add a few hundred gallons of
fuel to your allocation, if you take
Bobby Joe, one of our big sponsors,
for a local flight." Now you are accepting
fuel for a passenger-carrying
flight-receiving compensation for
transporting a passenger, this is essentially
back to the "selling rides"
scenario."
Notice carefully (Dennis, it looks like I was right) the part that says
"We'll add a few hundred gallons of
fuel to your allocation, if you take Bobby Joe, one of our big sponsors,
for a local flight". This is a case where it is clear that additional
compensation has been given for a specific type of operation that meets
the definition of "Commercial Operation". In the case of Greensboro,
the FAA did not have that specific. Meaning, they did not have proof
that ANYTHING ADDITIONAL was added to conduct flights where giving rides
was involved. Thus, as I said before, if you can prove to the FAA that
any fuel you receive or other types of compensation you receive were
ONLY given as gratis... And not as a prerequisite for say AIRCRAFT
RIDES, you pretty much have an airtight case. The smart move would be
to also carry a full copy of that FAA News Letter with you, to show the
local FAA dude, and then ask him: "Are you now telling me this FAA News
Letter is inaccurate? Fine, I will now need to know YOUR full name, who
you work for, your superior, etc." There is no question in my mind that
the Greensboro FAA Representatives were in fact abusing their authority
when they made their comments to the original gentleman. However, the
truth of the matter is that people in authority do that all the time,
which again is why I carry a recorder with me constantly. The trick is
to catch THEM speeding... As in, catch them making a mistake.
That said:
If you have a letter from the provider explaining the reasons why you
were given free "anything" and it does not mention carrying passengers
and in fact specifically mentions that it was NEVER MEANT for that
purpose, and the person giving the item and the person RECEIVING the
item has these letters in hand, plus a copy of that FAA News Letter, I
would say that you are pretty well covered. If the FAA person threatens
you and you are polite and explain it all to him.... And he gets even
more nasty (they usually will) and you have it recorded... You're
covered!
The very same FAA Letter mentions the issue of Private versus Commercial
Pilots accepting free "anything" for showing up at an air show or
exhibition. Their comment was that this matter is unclear, but that as
long as you had a Commercial ticket you should be OK. In this case, if
you could prove that you were going to the Air show anyway, and someone
just came up and "gave you something" and you did not contract for it in
advance, you could probably beat the FAA at that one too.
Interesting comment about the Commercial Pilot License. I looked at
mine the last time I went over one year on my Medical and it did not
change to Private Pilot. Either did the records at the FAA! Somehow I
still retained my Commercial Ticket! Sorry, just messing with you over
your wording. If you have a Commercial Ticket, you retain that License
even with NO medical. EXERCISING the PRIVILEGES of that license is
another matter, and is what you MEANT to say. :-)
You said: "Part 91.319 prohibits carrying persons or property for
compensation or hire in an aircraft with an experimental certificate."
True, unless one has a a letter of deviation under 91.319 (h). This
letter of deviation typically is used only for being allowed to charge a
person for training in an Experimental Exhibition aircraft. All
training. Any kind of training. Which brings up the question: "Does
getting a FAST card require training?" Well... Yes it does. Does the
RPA usually put an experienced FAST qualified pilot in an Experimental
Exhibition Aircraft in order to train a new applicant? Well, yes...
They usually do! Does the RPA charge for this training? Umm...
Well.... Not sure of that! Ok well then, does money change hands in
order to have this training? Well.. Yes it does. So would it be a
reach to say that the RPA is conducting training in an Experimental
Exhibition aircraft and is charging to do so, and these said same
aircraft do NOT have letters of deviation under 91.319 (h) ??? Ummm....
Well some might see it that way yes. I'd say the same kind of person
who said getting some free fuel also meant that carrying passengers was
totally illegal. Something to think about Craig.....
So... Fly all the people you like, and get free fuel too.. Best to be a
Commercial pilot who is current in every way and also with letters and
paperwork covering your ass that specifically addresses any "free stuff"
you received.
Now as for the RPA charging for flight instruction given in Experimental
Exhibition aircraft..... Good question. I guess the answer is: "The
money is a donation to our organization", etc., etc., but it still gets
tricky if someone refuses to pay you and then you refuse to train them.
It also gets tricky if you insist that you put an RPA FAST member in
THEIR aircraft and charge them for the training. Hmmm. Some questions
are best left unasked aren't they?
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann, CFI
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 22:29
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Passenger carrying flights for compensation at
airshows - an
--> <capav8r@gmail.com>
Mark:
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
The intent of the above is correct, the semantic are not - it is the
pilot receiving compensation, not the aircraft (owner). Part 61.133
allows a Commercial Pilot to receive compensation for flying "persons or
property" as long as the pilot meets the other requirements of Part 61.
This is where the Class 2 Medical is required. As a commercial rated
pilot, if you do not renew your Second Class Medical , it becomes a
Third Class Medical and you are now a Private Pilot.
So, in essence, if you are a properly rated commercial pilot, you can
accept fuel, oil, money and/or anything else the FAA considers
compensation for flying a plane (experimental or not) to/from/in an
airshow.
Part 91.319 prohibits carrying persons or property for compensation or
hire in an aircraft with an experimental certificate. This applies no
matter what pilot rating the pilot flying the experimental aircraft
holds.
So, just don't do any VIP/media rides and you are OK. Or you can do
them at your own expense. However, the FAA will place the burden of
truth on you to prove that the fuel and oil you got for flying to/from
the airshow is different from the fuel you burned, on your own dime, to
fly a VIP.
Cheers!
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3914#203914
Message 6
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Subject: | Passenger carrying flights for compensation at airshows |
- another blow to general aviation
Thanks for sending that Bill. It was VERY informative and I learned a
lot. Some good, some not so good.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 20:21
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
Mark,
I tried to send the entire file but Matronics said it was to big. I will
try again. It is a lengthy article but I'll work on it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
--> Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Not to be argumentative, but you said:
"Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an air show. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it."
Excuse me... You say this based on what? Personal experience? Personal
opinion? Conversation with an FAA Official?
Point being, I would really like to see what you commented on in writing
with an FAA sig. at the bottom of it. My problem is the amount of
"differences in opinion" that seem to be legally allowable between FAA
FISDO's.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:20
Subject: FW: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
________________________________
From: dgilliss@earthlink.net [mailto:dgilliss@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: FW: Yak-List: Passenger carrying flights for compensation
at airshows - another blow to general aviation
91.147 is a continuation of 91.146-Charitable flights, except it
addresses fee-based flights, a reg aimed at flights in light
aircraft.The Feds have made charitable flights (money raising by giving
rides) a nightmare, essentially eliminating it as a possibility due to
the onerous requirements (drug testing, advanced notice, approval, etc.)
For airshows, it is generally not applicable. Giving a VIP a flight is
not a charitable flight and should not be a fee-based flight.
Experimental Exhibition aircraft may receive compensation or fuel or
both when flying or static at an airshow. The pilot must have a
commercial license and class 2 medical to receive it.
What becomes a problem is VIP rides. Sponsors often expect flights in
military aircraft because their company gave money to the event. If the
total fuel/compensation is contracted for in advance and there are no
extra-fuel-for-more-rides agreements at the show there should be no
problem. It is the flights for hire/fee that cause a problem. The FSDO
inspector citing 91.147 is unknowledgeable. If he knew what he was doing
he would cite 91.319, which has a blanket exclusion for flights for
compensation in Experimental Exhibition aircraft, except for the
exclusions in section (h) of that reg. The only way to fly VIPs legally,
though marginally so, is to have a fixed amount of fuel/compensation for
the appearance, whether flying or static, and then elect to take a
passenger on a flight the pilot flies, effectively without compensation.
If there is waivered airspace during the flight, virtually all FSDOs
will prohibit passengers (the only exception in their handbooks is for
required crew or safety of flight--a pilot rated in the plane on a
formation flight, for example).
On page 9 of the March 2006 issue of the FAA Aviation News (attached) is
the Flying For Dollars article that discusses these issues. FAA
inspectors have generally followed it, since it appeared in their
magazine.
DG
Douglas Gilliss
249 South Pacific Coast Highway
Solana Beach, CA 92075
(619) 888-6510
FAX (619) 330-1870
dgilliss@earthlink.net
Message 7
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Subject: | Air System Helpful Tip |
You could have poked your eye out!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Air System Helpful Tip
All,
I have learned MUCH on this list, and want to contribute something back.
My air system was leaking down over several days and it appeared (sounded
like) the leak was in the pressure relief valve on the firewall. I had
installed a new piston in the valve just last year and assumed the rubber
tip had gone bad already.
Since the pressure had leaked down to just a hair over 1 on the gauge I
assumed the system was fully depleted. So I carefully removed the top of
the valve and lifted the spring out. I looked inside the valve and saw the
piston lying at the bottom of the valve.
Suddenly, there was quick hiss of air and the piston fired out of the valve,
ricocheted off my head and flew out the hanger. Luckily due to such a small
amount of remaining pressure and a thick skull, no harm was done.
The fact that the piston had been stuck, combined with the piston and valve
having a black carbon-like coating, and the rubber tip being in good shape
lead me to believe the piston was sticking in the cylinder. So, armed with
a Q-tip I searched for something to clear the valve and piston with.
Well, guess what worked great...MARVEL MYSTERY OIL!!!!!
A couple drops of MMO removed all the deposits on the piston and valve and
left them nice and shiny. Now my valve works great and I have absolutely no
leak at all.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3992#203992
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Air System Helpful Tip |
Steve,
Your post could not have been more timely! I just cleaned the
pressure relief valve and changed the piston 1.5 hours ago. After the
second flight I heard air leaking and found it was from that valve.
Seemed to stop after it bleed down about 10 ATM's but I'm sure it was
just that I couldn't hear the leak anymore. When I get back from my
trip to Madrid I'll be looking at it armed with MMO!
Keith
On Sep 12, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Mozam wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I have learned MUCH on this list, and want to contribute something
> back.
>
> My air system was leaking down over several days and it appeared
> (sounded like) the leak was in the pressure relief valve on the
> firewall. I had installed a new piston in the valve just last year
> and assumed the rubber tip had gone bad already.
>
> Since the pressure had leaked down to just a hair over 1 on the
> gauge I assumed the system was fully depleted. So I carefully
> removed the top of the valve and lifted the spring out. I looked
> inside the valve and saw the piston lying at the bottom of the valve.
>
> Suddenly, there was quick hiss of air and the piston fired out of
> the valve, ricocheted off my head and flew out the hanger. Luckily
> due to such a small amount of remaining pressure and a thick skull,
> no harm was done.
>
> The fact that the piston had been stuck, combined with the piston
> and valve having a black carbon-like coating, and the rubber tip
> being in good shape lead me to believe the piston was sticking in
> the cylinder. So, armed with a Q-tip I searched for something to
> clear the valve and piston with.
>
> Well, guess what worked great...MARVEL MYSTERY OIL!!!!!
>
> A couple drops of MMO removed all the deposits on the piston and
> valve and left them nice and shiny. Now my valve works great and I
> have absolutely no leak at all.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve Dalton
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3992#203992
>
>
Message 9
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|
Please contact me off list. Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
**************
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 10
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Subject: | Air System Helpful Tip |
Amazing, dinitrobenzene acting as a solvent.
doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 1:05 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Air System Helpful Tip
All,
I have learned MUCH on this list, and want to contribute something back.
My air system was leaking down over several days and it appeared (sounded
like) the leak was in the pressure relief valve on the firewall. I had
installed a new piston in the valve just last year and assumed the rubber
tip had gone bad already.
Since the pressure had leaked down to just a hair over 1 on the gauge I
assumed the system was fully depleted. So I carefully removed the top of
the valve and lifted the spring out. I looked inside the valve and saw the
piston lying at the bottom of the valve.
Suddenly, there was quick hiss of air and the piston fired out of the valve,
ricocheted off my head and flew out the hanger. Luckily due to such a small
amount of remaining pressure and a thick skull, no harm was done.
The fact that the piston had been stuck, combined with the piston and valve
having a black carbon-like coating, and the rubber tip being in good shape
lead me to believe the piston was sticking in the cylinder. So, armed with
a Q-tip I searched for something to clear the valve and piston with.
Well, guess what worked great...MARVEL MYSTERY OIL!!!!!
A couple drops of MMO removed all the deposits on the piston and valve and
left them nice and shiny. Now my valve works great and I have absolutely no
leak at all.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 3992#203992
Message 11
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|
Are you talking to me?
>>> <ByronMFox@aol.com> 09/12/08 7:03 PM >>>
Please contact me off list. Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
**************
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 12
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Subject: | Original Yak accessories |
Greetings all. Looking for any original Yak accessories like control locks, steel
chocks, tool kits, tow bar, etc. Let me know if you want to get rid of any
these. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4053#204053
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