Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (Stu)
2. 07:18 AM - Re: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (Roger Kemp MD)
3. 08:02 AM - Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (Stu)
4. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (Jorgen Nielsen)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock (Don Milbourn)
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
Thanks guys. To answer some of the questions...
Have intake drains, open after every flight. When starting cold, pull through about
20 blades with drains open. The pull through usually produces oil from the
stbd exhaust stack also, sometimes a lot. I suppose the hydraulic lock occurs
randomly when the No. 6 cylinder just happens to be in the compression stroke...oil
has nowhere to go.
On shutdown I run it up to 70% for about 20 seconds then close the throttle and
mags off. Haven't opened the throttle during the wind down (after mags off) in
the past, will give that a try. P.S. For the most part I've found that if the
Russians did it, there was a good reason.
Great to see the different opinions on a fix...they all sound practical. I'm inclined
to do research on cost, timing, hassle etc. Will post what I come up with.
--------
Stewart Nicholson
Yak 52 N122GC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210086#210086
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
Stu,
One other thing you can do is take out the oil check valve and clean it. A
lot of times that will stop this (or slow) this problem down to a mire
dribble.
Installing the Kimball oil cutoff personally scares me and I do not have one
for that reason. Have not met a failsafe system yet that could or would not
eventually fail especially if it involves electrons (queertrons) running
around protecting my rosie pink.
Installing the intake drains and opening them after every flight helps too.
And I highly recommend that mod. Not fail safe either. Sometimes you still
have to bite the bullet and drop the chin cowl to pull the lower three spark
plugs when it becomes difficult to pull a blade.anyway As my grandfather
used to pound into my head when I helped on his farm during the summers and
breaks, never force it or else you get an unwanted reward.
Drilling a hole in the chin cowl, putting a plastic hose through it and
plugging it into the sump drain then letting it drain into a clean bucket is
an option. Also adds to the I forgot to close it factor if for some reason
the thing falls off and the usual neophyte passer by asks the inevitable
stupid question to distract you from your pre-flight. Now you have an open
avenue to dump the rest of your oil over the side too. Besides, me
personally, I like to minimize the number of new holes in my airplane.
Installing a Darton clean kit is another way of pumping most of the oil out
of your lower 8 rocker arm boxes and the sump. Much more expensive and again
adds a gotcha factor with all those weird little hoses running all over the
place just waiting for a gremlin to loosen a clamp or pull one off usually
at the most in opportune time.
The fact that with sitting you are seeing half of your oil in the tank drain
down into your engine ultimately your sump means the check valve is not
fully sealing. It is a metal to metal seal. Simply the thing gets groodued
up overtime or develops a rough surface and does not completely close
completely allowing the oil to leak past. Yes there could be other problems
affecting the oil pump but doubtful. Deal with the obvious before chasing
the Zebras. If you have good oil pressure and the only problem is that when
she sits she fills up the sump and empties about half the oil out of the
reservoir then it is the check valve until proven otherwise. Clean the
danged thing and see what happens. It is a pain in the ass to pull the
entire oil pump to ship it off to be overhauled when all you really have to
do is pull the check valve out of the back of the oil pump and clean it.
If you do not know where it is order an M-14 engine parts book from West
London Aeroclub Russian Engineering at
http://www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk/main.asp?ID=7 They also have posters of the
M-14 P engine cut outs so you can see the blow up of the section you want to
tear apart and hopefully reassemble correctly. Not real expensive for the
book and the posters but the shipping to the US is a bitch.
My overall point is the Russians put that valve there for a reason and made
it fairly simple to pull and clean verses putting all the other fail safe
stuff (a nice 4 letter word) into the system so the operator (pilot) really
could embarrass himself and hurt a valuable piece of equipment.
Hope this farther clears your otherwise muddy water or errr ...full sump.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock
Thanks guys. To answer some of the questions...
Have intake drains, open after every flight. When starting cold, pull
through about 20 blades with drains open. The pull through usually produces
oil from the stbd exhaust stack also, sometimes a lot. I suppose the
hydraulic lock occurs randomly when the No. 6 cylinder just happens to be in
the compression stroke...oil has nowhere to go.
On shutdown I run it up to 70% for about 20 seconds then close the throttle
and mags off. Haven't opened the throttle during the wind down (after mags
off) in the past, will give that a try. P.S. For the most part I've found
that if the Russians did it, there was a good reason.
Great to see the different opinions on a fix...they all sound practical. I'm
inclined to do research on cost, timing, hassle etc. Will post what I come
up with.
--------
Stewart Nicholson
Yak 52 N122GC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210086#210086
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
Thanks Doc. Your idea of removing and cleaning the check valve is appealing.
Anybody done this lately?
--------
Stewart Nicholson
Yak 52 N122GC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210112#210112
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
The oil check valve is a common culprit, becoming grooved around the seat.
It is quick to remove, and you can get a machine shop to polish / cut it
straight and re-install. I have a spare one for this purpose that we share
between a couple Yaks - if one starts leaking down too much oil we swap the
valve, take the "faulty" one in and get it fixed then return to spare
status.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp MD
Sent: 24 October 2008 04:18 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock
Stu,
One other thing you can do is take out the oil check valve and clean it. A
lot of times that will stop this (or slow) this problem down to a mire
dribble.
Installing the Kimball oil cutoff personally scares me and I do not have one
for that reason. Have not met a failsafe system yet that could or would not
eventually fail especially if it involves electrons (queertrons) running
around protecting my rosie pink.
Installing the intake drains and opening them after every flight helps too.
And I highly recommend that mod. Not fail safe either. Sometimes you still
have to bite the bullet and drop the chin cowl to pull the lower three spark
plugs when it becomes difficult to pull a blade.anyway As my grandfather
used to pound into my head when I helped on his farm during the summers and
breaks, never force it or else you get an unwanted reward.
Drilling a hole in the chin cowl, putting a plastic hose through it and
plugging it into the sump drain then letting it drain into a clean bucket is
an option. Also adds to the I forgot to close it factor if for some reason
the thing falls off and the usual neophyte passer by asks the inevitable
stupid question to distract you from your pre-flight. Now you have an open
avenue to dump the rest of your oil over the side too. Besides, me
personally, I like to minimize the number of new holes in my airplane.
Installing a Darton clean kit is another way of pumping most of the oil out
of your lower 8 rocker arm boxes and the sump. Much more expensive and again
adds a gotcha factor with all those weird little hoses running all over the
place just waiting for a gremlin to loosen a clamp or pull one off usually
at the most in opportune time.
The fact that with sitting you are seeing half of your oil in the tank drain
down into your engine ultimately your sump means the check valve is not
fully sealing. It is a metal to metal seal. Simply the thing gets groodued
up overtime or develops a rough surface and does not completely close
completely allowing the oil to leak past. Yes there could be other problems
affecting the oil pump but doubtful. Deal with the obvious before chasing
the Zebras. If you have good oil pressure and the only problem is that when
she sits she fills up the sump and empties about half the oil out of the
reservoir then it is the check valve until proven otherwise. Clean the
danged thing and see what happens. It is a pain in the ass to pull the
entire oil pump to ship it off to be overhauled when all you really have to
do is pull the check valve out of the back of the oil pump and clean it.
If you do not know where it is order an M-14 engine parts book from West
London Aeroclub Russian Engineering at
http://www.wlacrussianeng.co.uk/main.asp?ID=7 They also have posters of the
M-14 P engine cut outs so you can see the blow up of the section you want to
tear apart and hopefully reassemble correctly. Not real expensive for the
book and the posters but the shipping to the US is a bitch.
My overall point is the Russians put that valve there for a reason and made
it fairly simple to pull and clean verses putting all the other fail safe
stuff (a nice 4 letter word) into the system so the operator (pilot) really
could embarrass himself and hurt a valuable piece of equipment.
Hope this farther clears your otherwise muddy water or errr ...full sump.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock
Thanks guys. To answer some of the questions...
Have intake drains, open after every flight. When starting cold, pull
through about 20 blades with drains open. The pull through usually produces
oil from the stbd exhaust stack also, sometimes a lot. I suppose the
hydraulic lock occurs randomly when the No. 6 cylinder just happens to be in
the compression stroke...oil has nowhere to go.
On shutdown I run it up to 70% for about 20 seconds then close the throttle
and mags off. Haven't opened the throttle during the wind down (after mags
off) in the past, will give that a try. P.S. For the most part I've found
that if the Russians did it, there was a good reason.
Great to see the different opinions on a fix...they all sound practical. I'm
inclined to do research on cost, timing, hassle etc. Will post what I come
up with.
--------
Stewart Nicholson
Yak 52 N122GC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210086#210086
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
The problem is not necessarily the check valve Doc is talking about. I
have personally tried this and it really doesn't cure the problem unless
of course the spring which pushes against the valve is broken or
incorrectly seated. A bad spring will cause the valve not to shut off.
The problem is internal within the oil pump. I don't think you can
repair this in the field. Carl and Jill discovered this while repairing
oil pumps. There is another shut off valve within the oil pump. If you
want to truly correct the problem, talk to Carl/Jill first, then remove
the oil pump and have them overhaul it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Stu
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock
Thanks Doc. Your idea of removing and cleaning the check valve is
appealing. Anybody done this lately?
--------
Stewart Nicholson
Yak 52 N122GC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210112#210112
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock |
I had the same thing with my Yak so I removed the oil pump sent it to Jill.
I think It is better, But when It sets over 2 weeks or longer it leaks. Just
need to fly it more.
Don----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu" <shnicholson@COMCAST.NET>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 9:01 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P Missing Oil & Hydraulic Lock
>
> Thanks Doc. Your idea of removing and cleaning the check valve is
appealing. Anybody done this lately?
>
> --------
> Stewart Nicholson
> Yak 52 N122GC
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210112#210112
>
>
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