Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:13 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (cjpilot710@aol.com)
2. 05:36 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Dale)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 07:52 AM - Re: Listen to this! (keithmckinley)
5. 09:04 AM - Re: Shell smoke oils (Ron Davis)
6. 09:21 AM - Re: Service Bulletins (Ron Davis)
7. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (Ron Davis)
8. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 10:38 AM - Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
10. 11:01 AM - Re: Service Bulletins (Walter Lannon)
11. 11:02 AM - You're all invited to fly to lunch (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
12. 11:43 AM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (Walter Lannon)
13. 12:11 PM - MiG-21 in my own backyard (John Graham)
14. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Listen to this! (Budd Davisson)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (keithmckinley)
16. 06:24 PM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
17. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (Roger Kemp MD)
18. 07:10 PM - BS on the list (Joe Howse)
19. 08:13 PM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (AKMac)
20. 09:32 PM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (Tom Elliott)
21. 11:12 PM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Jan Mevis)
22. 11:39 PM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
In a message dated 11/2/2008 12:02:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
macjohnson@gmail.com writes:
The M-14p in the Yak burns about 15 gal per hour and uses about 1 quart of
oil every 2 hours.
The HS-6A in the CJ burns about 13 gal per hour and uses about 1 quart of
oil every 2 hours.
Put a M-14P in a CJ and cruise with the Yaks and you'll burn 12 gals per
hour. (A little dig there guys) :-)
I suggest you find a Yak and a CJ to fly for an hour or two. Spend a
couple hundred dollars paying for the gas or whatever, to get a good idea what
these airplanes are like. Look seriously at the type flying you'll do. This
is a big investment for anyone. I know guys who've brought either Yak or CJ
and than switched.
Good luck with your choice.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
--> Yak-List message posted by: "AKMac" <macjohnson@gmail.com>
Hi guys. I'm looking into buying a Yak-52 sometime in the next year. From my
research these aircraft seem like capable aerobatic machines, and are
relatively easy and inexpensive to maintain. I think they will fit my desires
perfectly.
This will be my first aircraft purchase and I'm trying to get an idea of
exactly how much these birds cost to fly. My estimates are about $110 an hour
wet (at 4.90 a gallon) Does this seem correct or am I way off here?
Secondly I'm a long legged guy at 6'3" and 250lbs. Now I've flown C152's and
Super Cubs, and I can tolerate them. But I would really like an airplane
that is at least somewhat comfortable for me. I understand that at my size this
is a tall order (pun intended!) but how comfortable are these airplanes for
you guys?
Anyways I think I have everything else figured out. If there is anything odd
that is specific to the Yak please bring it to my attention. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211719#211719
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
I'm 6'4" and 250lbs and fly a 52 with the rudder mod and I sit on a 1" cushion
on top of a Strong chute. I have no problems and I have sat in a CJ also but
found the gear handle was in my way of my knee. I am ready to get out after a
hour or so anyway. I have a 52TW also that gives even more room 2" up and 2"
back in the seat. It so depends on how your built and where your height come
from. After sitting in the 52 and the CJ I went with the Yak because I liked the
extra power and lower cost when I was first getting into it with the 52. The
TW later wiped out the cost factor but I like it much better.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211742#211742
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
You should chat with Sasquatch, petervs@knology.net, who is taller than
6'3" and probably close to your weight and flies a Yak 52 and does acro
in it as well. Peter (call sign Sasquatch) is the biggest guy I know
that flies a 52.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Howerton
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions
At 6'3" and 280 - I'm not all that comfortable in a 52 (sat in, never
flown one). Very comfortable in the CJ-6.
--
Kurt Howerton
N923YK
http://cj6.scitechsys.com
AKMac wrote:
>
> Hi guys. I'm looking into buying a Yak-52 sometime in the next year.
>From my research these aircraft seem like capable aerobatic machines,
and are relatively easy and inexpensive to maintain. I think they will
fit my desires perfectly.
>
> This will be my first aircraft purchase and I'm trying to get an
idea of exactly how much these birds cost to fly. My estimates are about
$110 an hour wet (at 4.90 a gallon) Does this seem correct or am I way
off here?
>
> Secondly I'm a long legged guy at 6'3" and 250lbs. Now I've flown
C152's and Super Cubs, and I can tolerate them. But I would really like
an airplane that is at least somewhat comfortable for me. I understand
that at my size this is a tall order (pun intended!) but how comfortable
are these airplanes for you guys?
>
> Anyways I think I have everything else figured out. If there is
anything odd that is specific to the Yak please bring it to my
attention. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211719#211719
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Listen to this! |
No offense Steve but neither does a 9 line signature. kidding! OK
IMO, as a new guy to this community, but not aviation, is that many folks on this
list don't have the social luxury of hanging around fellow pilots as many of
us do. Whether it's at a lively airport, an airline layover or drill weekend,
pilots generally (sadly?) really enjoy each others company. Put two pilots together
and what will they talk about 100% of the time.....planes, flying and
maybe women.
Now I didn't read the last post that "has nothing to do with yaks or cjs" which
is the easiest thing to do If something on this board doesn't appeal to you.
I did read the posts on the missing wing hoax and curiously enough when I showed
up for my last airline trip there were half a dozen pilots hovered around a
computer watching it and judging it's merits.
Soooo, this list may be a GREAT source of technical info but it's also somewhat
of a social venue for many of our own.
That said, I agree with Czech6, settle down for crying out loud and let's enjoy
each others company just as we do in the air. The last thing anyone should want
to do is alienate a Yak/CJ guy from coming to this BB.
I'm goin' flying.
Keith
700HS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211761#211761
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| Subject: | Shell smoke oils |
What the hell is double malt? Good scotch is single malt=2C the others are
blends. I know the air force is full of chardonnay drinkers=2C but I'd ex
pect better of the navy.> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shell smoke oils> Date: Mo
n=2C 20 Oct 2008 20:41:09 -0400> From: mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> To: yak-li
IV Det Cherry Point=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> > So you're
telling me you get good smoke burning Double Malt Scotch even> if it does
make you have a headache after puking your guts out? > > You da man. > > >
Mark> > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics
.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp>
Sent: Monday=2C October 20=2C 2008 7:11 PM> To: yak-list@matronics.com> Sub
ject: Re: Yak-List: Shell smoke oils> > Hey guys=2C what you burn you breat
h. I tried tranny oil=2C but after> puking up my guts and having a headache
for two days=2C I surmised it just> might not be a good thing to use even
if it was free. I made a decision> that if I was going to kill brain cells
=2C I'd do it the old fashioned> way....with a good well aged dbl malt scot
ch. > > Doug> > On Mon=2C Oct 20=2C 2008 at 3:36 PM=2C Bitterlich=2C Mark G
CIV Det Cherry> Point=2C MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:> >
nt=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>> > I can get this stuff by th
e case Pappy... Usually because of a> "use by"> date that has expired. Does
it really work that well for smoke?> I> always thought it was synthetic an
d would not burn all that> well.> > Mark> > > > -----Original Message----->
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@m
atronics.com] On Behalf Of> > cjpilot710@aol.com> Sent: Monday=2C October 2
0=2C 2008 12:41 PM> To: yak-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sh
ell smoke oils> > In a message dated 10/20/2008 12:10:48 P.M. Eastern Dayli
ght> Time=2C> drc@wscare.com writes:> > I've used 10 weight turbine oil. I
was able to get it for free.> How?> At jet engine overhaul shops with test
cells=2C after a test run=2C> the oil> that was used in the engine is drain
ed and never used again. It> is> "filtered" in the normal course of things
but the feds require> it not to> be used again. Companies normally pay some
one to come and get> rid of> it.> > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby> > Agree - Corvus>
> I have used a whole barrel of Vitrea 13 without problems> in a> smokongpl
anes system.> I just picked up a barrel for cheap after a local air> show g
ot> rained out.> > Herb> > > On Oct 19=2C 2008=2C at 10:15 PM=2C Mark Davis
wrote:> > > > > Does anyone have any experience with any of these> smoke>
oils mentioned on smokingairplanes.com> <http://smokingairplanes.com/> ? Ma
y be time to stock up again> with the price of oil down again.> > Shell Car
nea #10> Shell Carnea E-? (10 weight)> Shell VITREA 13> > > > > > > > > ___
_____________________________> > New MapQuest Local shows what's happening
at your destination.> Dining=2C> Movies=2C Events=2C News &> > mo/aol?redir
=http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002">Try it> out!> > > >
> > > -- > Always Yakin=2C> Doug Sapp> Phone 509-826-4610> Fax 509-826-364
-========================
=========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Service Bulletins |
You stumbled across the truth here=2C but apparently didn't recognize it.
If Piper or Cessna issues an airworthiness directive=2C owners in the US ar
e required to comply with it and almost invariably do. However=2C when Pip
er or Cessna issues a service bulletin=2C owners in the US often do not com
ply with it=2C and are under no legal obligation to do so to keep flying.
A great many SBs are issued by US airplane manufacturers at the behest of t
heir legal department in an effort to limit liability and sell lots of expe
nsive parts. The FAA reviews these and can make them into an AD=2C with ma
ndayory compliance=2C if the FAA feels it has merit.
Non-certified aircraft in the US can not have an AD and so it is difficult
for owners to know if they should comply.
Others will probably challenge the statement about ADs for experimental air
craft. Instead of telling us what you think- post ONE example of an AD to
an experimental aircraft to receive an apology from me for being wrong.
From: richard.goode@russianaeros.comTo: yak-list@matronics.comSubject: Yak-
List: Service Bulletins Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2008 17:25:43 +0100
I have been asked to give more detail about the specific problems that led
to Yak-52 Service Bulletins. However it is not so simple.
As I have said before there are thirty-one of these covering what=2C I beli
eve=2C Yakovlev would term "potentially serious airframe defects". Of cou
rse I have a list of these thirty-one=3B I have seen examples of each physi
cally on an aeroplane=2C but have no detailed background as to why each of
the 31 was introduced. However I have sat through several sessions at Yak
ovlev in Moscow discussing Yak airframe issues=2C particularly for 50 and 5
2 and I HAVE seen a wide range of technical reports and associated photogra
phs showing REAL airframe failures. For the 50=2C these were serious and
led to four fatal accidents and there would have been a number more had it
not been for very vigilant technicians=2C and an extremely vigorous inspect
ion regime.
For 52s=2C I have seen evidence (at the meetings above) of failure in a num
ber of areas=2C including wing mounting brackets=3B aileron mounting bracke
ts=3B detachment of elevator balance weights etc. Although I cannot provi
de a detailed explanation and background for each of the thirty-one SBs (an
d I cannot believe that anyone would expect me to) I can assure any 52 Owne
r that each was a real issue=3B was taken very seriously=2C and ended with
an appropriate Service Bulletin.
It surprises me that there seems to be a significant body of 52 Owners who
seem to regard these SBs as being discretionary. I assume that if Piper or
Pitts issue an Airworthiness Directive=2C then the Owner will ensure that
their aeroplane complies to that AD. What I find puzzling is that the sam
e approach seems not to apply with Russian aircraft.
Clearly there is a difference in that the Russian aeroplanes are not Normal
Category and Certificated aircraft in the USA. Nevertheless=2C surely one
assumes that the Service Bulletins are just as vital for aircraft safety.
There also seems to me to be a suggestion that Yakovlev promulgated SBs for
reasons other then those purely related to safety. I know Russia better
than most=2C and few things surprise me about Russia but=2C from a combinat
ion of my own experience and simple logic=2C I can see no foundation for su
ch thinking. The key points are surely:
Yakovlev is a Design Bureau=2C and has no role in the manufacture or subseq
uent modification of its aircraft.
So Yak design aircraft=2C and other=2C and completely separate=2C organisat
ions manufacture them=2C and then build any modification kits etc that migh
t be required.
So Yak-18T was (and is) built in Smolensk=3B 52 at Aerostar in Romania=3B 5
0 and 55 at the State Factory at Arsenyev in the extreme Russian Far East.
In addition the vast majority of these Service Bulletins were issued in Sov
iet days=2C when Yakovlev=2C and indeed the whole Soviet aircraft industry
was well-funded. All 18T Bulletins were finished by 1984=3B all Yak-50 Bul
letins by 1985=2C and the last significant 52 Bulletin (SB number 107) in 1
990.
When these SBs were promulgated by Yakovlev=2C they only did the design and
practical work for one prototype. At that stage the manufacturing unit wa
s then required to make whatever modification kits were required=2C and the
n installed by appropriate technicians.
None of this benefited Yakovlev=2C and I suspect=2C not good news for them
=2C since it clearly would not reflect well on their capabilities as aircra
ft designers if their designs needed constant modifications. So I think
we can be sure that Yakovlev only issued SBs when they regarded them absolu
tely necessary! For further information please see the attached links belo
w.
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-55%20Service%20Bulletins.htm
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-50%20Service%20Bulletins%20after%20crashes.
htm
Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm LyonshallHerefordshireHR5 3LW United K
ingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129 www.russianaeros.com
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS |
I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely y
ou will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory?
I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11 symp
athy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your garde
n-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away in a
year.
I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don
=92t know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the qual
ity of their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the
dollar from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents=2C the banking/
mortgage crisis=2C the increase of energy costs by 80%=2C food increases of
7% in the past year=2C and what is widely=2C if not officially=2C termed a
recession. I=92m inclined to think that he didn=92t learn a great deal abo
ut economics while getting his masters degree. Oh=2C and there is that stoc
k market crash last month.
You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also pr
omulgated an extraordinarily expensive=2C unpopular=2C and most likely unwi
nable war under deeply flawed=2C if not entirely fraudulent allegations of
WMD.
The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all
its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lo
ck =91em up and forget =91em is better? Unless of course you need to tortu
re the prisoners in the interests of national security. Or=2C did Bush jus
t not learn much while getting his =93Gentleman=92s C=94 at Harvard Law?
I won=92t refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts
leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far
less complementary appellation=2C perhaps quarter wit.
He has five months left=2C of course=2C to change his legacy. If he gets t
he Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the U
S imports from China by a factor of seven=2C he can still become known as t
he worst president since Hoover.
For the record=2C I like Laura=3B she=92s smarter and nicer than monkey boy
. And the twins are hot.
I've downgraded George to quarterwit.
You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole.
On Aug 12=2C 2008=2C at 10:32 PM=2C Roger Kemp MD wrote:
How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from P
rinceton? He=92s richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally a
gree with all he has done but I =91m sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore
the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his inte
rn cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name of
detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but t
he Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did n
ot have until the Draft Dodger took office.
Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the D
emoncrats=85be prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist se
eking =93economic justice=94 for his race. Can you tell me what race that w
ould be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world=2C Right!
Doc
_________________________________________________________________
When your life is on the go=97take your life with you.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS |
In a message dated 11/2/2008 12:38:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
l39parts@hotmail.com writes:
You do know that GW is NOT ON THE BALLOT? Right? You've been drinking
BO's cool-aid again.
____________________________________
I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely yo
u
will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory?
I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11
sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your
garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away
in a
year.
I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don
=99t
know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality o
f
their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dollar
from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgage
crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the pa
st
year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I
=99m inclined to
think that he didn=99t learn a great deal about economics while getti
ng his
masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last month.
You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also
promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely unwina
ble
war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of WMD.
The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all
its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lock
=98em up and forget =98em is better? Unless of course you need
to torture the
prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not
learn much while getting his =9CGentleman=99s C=9D at Harv
ard Law?
I won=99t refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the
facts
leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far l
ess
complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit.
He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the
Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US
imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the w
orst
president since Hoover.
For the record, I like Laura; she=99s smarter and nicer than monkey b
oy. And
the twins are hot.
I've downgraded George to quarterwit.
You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole.
On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote:
How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from
Princeton? He=99s richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not tot
ally agree
with all he has done but I =98m sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore
the bore
would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his intern cigar
poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name of detante (
and
campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but the Chinese do
have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did not have until
the Draft Dodger took office.
Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the
Demoncratsbe prepared to give all your earned income to this social
ist
seeking =9Ceconomic justice=9D for his race. Can you tell me wha
t race that would be?
143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right!
Doc
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
____________________________________
When your life is on the go=94take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows M
obile=C2=AE
today
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Once and for all take this crap somewhere else |
Don't you people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List, don't you
know that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass about what you
think unless it has something to do with aircraft?? In case you don't know it
this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on the world.? Don't
you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA because of just this
sort of thing??
Please do 99% of us a favor and take your opinions, your views on the world and
your attacks on members someplace else, I for one am sick of it.? Thank you for
your attention.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Nanchang Driver
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Service Bulletins |
Hi Ron;
Aircraft manufacturers do not (in fact can not) issue an Airworthiness Directive.
That is the prerogative of the state and carries the force of law.
What the manufacturer often does is issue what they call a "mandatory" Service
Bulletin. Of course it is not mandatory but serves their main interest of liability
protection.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Davis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Service Bulletins
You stumbled across the truth here, but apparently didn't recognize it. If Piper
or Cessna issues an airworthiness directive, owners in the US are required
to comply with it and almost invariably do. However, when Piper or Cessna issues
a service bulletin, owners in the US often do not comply with it, and are
under no legal obligation to do so to keep flying.
A great many SBs are issued by US airplane manufacturers at the behest of their
legal department in an effort to limit liability and sell lots of expensive
parts. The FAA reviews these and can make them into an AD, with mandayory compliance,
if the FAA feels it has merit.
Non-certified aircraft in the US can not have an AD and so it is difficult for
owners to know if they should comply.
Others will probably challenge the statement about ADs for experimental aircraft.
Instead of telling us what you think- post ONE example of an AD to an experimental
aircraft to receive an apology from me for being wrong.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: richard.goode@russianaeros.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Service Bulletins
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2008 17:25:43 +0100
I have been asked to give more detail about the specific problems that led to
Yak-52 Service Bulletins. However it is not so simple.
As I have said before there are thirty-one of these covering what, I believe,
Yakovlev would term "potentially serious airframe defects". Of course I have
a list of these thirty-one; I have seen examples of each physically on an aeroplane,
but have no detailed background as to why each of the 31 was introduced.
However I have sat through several sessions at Yakovlev in Moscow discussing
Yak airframe issues, particularly for 50 and 52 and I HAVE seen a wide range
of technical reports and associated photographs showing REAL airframe failures.
For the 50, these were serious and led to four fatal accidents and there
would have been a number more had it not been for very vigilant technicians,
and an extremely vigorous inspection regime.
For 52s, I have seen evidence (at the meetings above) of failure in a number
of areas, including wing mounting brackets; aileron mounting brackets; detachment
of elevator balance weights etc. Although I cannot provide a detailed explanation
and background for each of the thirty-one SBs (and I cannot believe
that anyone would expect me to) I can assure any 52 Owner that each was a real
issue; was taken very seriously, and ended with an appropriate Service Bulletin.
It surprises me that there seems to be a significant body of 52 Owners who seem
to regard these SBs as being discretionary. I assume that if Piper or Pitts
issue an Airworthiness Directive, then the Owner will ensure that their aeroplane
complies to that AD. What I find puzzling is that the same approach seems
not to apply with Russian aircraft.
Clearly there is a difference in that the Russian aeroplanes are not Normal Category
and Certificated aircraft in the USA. Nevertheless, surely one assumes
that the Service Bulletins are just as vital for aircraft safety.
There also seems to me to be a suggestion that Yakovlev promulgated SBs for reasons
other then those purely related to safety. I know Russia better than
most, and few things surprise me about Russia but, from a combination of my own
experience and simple logic, I can see no foundation for such thinking. The
key points are surely:
a.. Yakovlev is a Design Bureau, and has no role in the manufacture or subsequent
modification of its aircraft.
b.. So Yak design aircraft, and other, and completely separate, organisations
manufacture them, and then build any modification kits etc that might be required.
c.. So Yak-18T was (and is) built in Smolensk; 52 at Aerostar in Romania; 50
and 55 at the State Factory at Arsenyev in the extreme Russian Far East.
d.. In addition the vast majority of these Service Bulletins were issued in
Soviet days, when Yakovlev, and indeed the whole Soviet aircraft industry was
well-funded. All 18T Bulletins were finished by 1984; all Yak-50 Bulletins by
1985, and the last significant 52 Bulletin (SB number 107) in 1990.
e.. When these SBs were promulgated by Yakovlev, they only did the design and
practical work for one prototype. At that stage the manufacturing unit was
then required to make whatever modification kits were required, and then installed
by appropriate technicians.
f.. None of this benefited Yakovlev, and I suspect, not good news for them,
since it clearly would not reflect well on their capabilities as aircraft designers
if their designs needed constant modifications. So I think we can be
sure that Yakovlev only issued SBs when they regarded them absolutely necessary!
For further information please see the attached links below.
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak52service.htm
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-55%20Service%20Bulletins.htm
http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-50%20Service%20Bulletins%20after%20crashes.htm
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail. Try it
Message 11
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| Subject: | You're all invited to fly to lunch |
Now hear this!
We would like to invite anyone and everyone to join us for our new monthly fly
to lunch gathering.? If you're in the area (PRC) or just passing through please
take a look at the calender located here:?
http://www.vectorwarbirds.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=77
Its simple, just show up at the designated airport at 1100 hrs Arizona Time and
join other aviators for lunch at the local cafe.? Nothing to join, no emails
but this one, and nobody will bother you.? We hope to see you there!!
THAT IS ALL!
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
http://www.vectorwarbirds.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else |
Gary;
I could not agree more. Your comments are right on the money.
I had to seriously restrain myself from replying to the latest idiotic post. If
it continues I likely will reply and then leave the list for good.
Best;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else
Don't you people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List, don't
you know that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass about what
you think unless it has something to do with aircraft? In case you don't know
it this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on the world. Don't
you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA because of just this
sort of thing?
Please do 99% of us a favor and take your opinions, your views on the world and
your attacks on members someplace else, I for one am sick of it. Thank you
for your attention.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Nanchang Driver
AOL News.
Message 13
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| Subject: | MiG-21 in my own backyard |
I was sitting in church today and had on my flight jacket with a Yak-52 pat
ch when a gentleman introduced himself to me.- He lives in my town and ow
ns a MiG-21 which is for sale.- Just passing along the info in case anyon
e of you know someone with a lot of money and time on their hands and an av
iation itch that needs scratching.
Listed below is some info on the jet, as well as other sources and contact
info.
THE PLANE -
1 ea. 1973 Polish MiG-21UM Factory new pyro installed May '07 by Bernds guy
s
1340 TT Eng. 840+ TT- 160 SFOH
Feb. '08 Annual- Aug. '08 Pitot/Stat. Check
KLX-135 GPS/Comm
KX-155 VOR Nav/Comm w/GS
KT-76A Trans. w/Mode C
Terra TMA-350D Audio Control panel w/Intercomm
Aviation Classics Reno Certification Day/VFR - Experimental/Exhibition
Jeff Turney Test Flown April 2003
5 Military Contracts flown and missed only 3 hops total. Bad power cart dur
ing start fried the voltage regulator, com circuit breaker and diode in Tra
nsponder. Cost me two days. Otherwise, 100% dispatch reliability
THE SPARES/TOOLS/GSE -
1 ea. R-11F2SK-300 with logs. TT 692- SOH 95- Last O/H 04/95 (Currently
in a hangar in YIP)
9 pairs Main tires w/tubes
10 ea. nose tires w/tubes
Compression jig for tire changing. (S.A.E., but hey; it works!)
4 ea. drag chute with spare sleeve and drogue
Chute repacking cylinder w/ram and 20 ton hydr. press
1 ea. starter/gen. w/new brushes
1 ea. engine driven hydr. pump
1 ea. spare emerg. hydr. pump w/new brushes
Additional spare set brushes for Emerg. hydr. pump
2 ea. KAF-13D A/B control box
1 ea. PYR-82 voltage reg. Tested on bench in Poland before delivery
Numerous misc. seat spares like O-2 regulator and some seat componants
Of course complete set of manuals and FAA Approved MTX Program. Mostly 'On
Condition'
Tow bar, engine plugs and covers, chocks
Lots of metric wrenches, etc. You/Dave probably have all of these req'd.
Axle wrench for changing main wheels
2 sets Main wheel brakes
1 ea. nose wheel brake
2 ea. Main wheels w/bearings (incase ya' blow another one on the runway ;-)
) I keep these built up as ready spares.
1 set ext. hydr. mule hoses to press. main or boost system w/o turning engi
ne over
1 set aux. inlet vented covers for ground runs (FOD screens)
1 ea. 490 l. BDT w/dolley
1 spare helmet and G suit for back seater
1 set hoses for servicing nitrogen and O-2 w/adapters
1 set APY-7 missle rails, but no pylons to mount 'em on! Damn...
Probably missed a few small items, but as you can see; comprehensive to say
the least.
Web site for the plane is---- www.mach2mig.com
Plane is listed on both barnstormers.com and trade-a-plane.com
Worked hard the past 10 years to make it as safe as I can, and I'd really l
ike to see it go to a good home. Please feel free to shop it around to anyo
ne you think might be genuinely interested and have 'em contact me at home.
Best regards and hope to see you soon,
Paul
847/854-8237 - home
McCain or Obama? Stay up to date on the latest from the campaign trail with
AOL News. =0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Listen to this! |
Guys,
Here are some e-group observations gathered from eight years on the Bearhawk
list (which has grown to just under 1,500 members) and how they handled the
social, off-topic and on-topic stuff.
First, the original focus of the group was/is the Bearhawk homebuilt
airplane (4-place, utility/bush bird). As time went by, however, it became
obvious that the membership included everyone from Alaska bush types to
aeronautical engineers, to Edwards AFB flight test types, to doctors,
lawyers and some Indian chiefs (not actually chiefs, but Indians). The
amount of knowledge and experience on the group is staggering.
It didn't take long before they started asking non-Bearhawk questions and
similar comments to the point that the overall feeling is one of of a bunch
of guys sitting in front of a hangar talking about what ever is on their
mind. So, at any given time we have two or three threads going at one time.
I remember at one time we had a discussion on how to reduce the oxidation at
the edge of a TIG weld on aluminum, what was the best to carry in your
aircraft to protect against Grizzlies, shot gun with slugs or a big bore
lever gun (.45-70, etc.), and the last was a erudite discussion of how it
was felt that the electoral college was no longer relevant in this day and
time. No subject is left untouched and the only hard and fast rule everyone
adheres to is that civility rules and no one can flame another guy. The
result has been that the members count each other as being best friends,
even though many of us haven't met face to face.
With that many members, the traffic is high and it was decided the best way
to keep from POing members who only wanted Bearhawk info was, as I've said
here before, to put OT, for Off Topic in the subject line. That way you can
simply delete, or set your e-mail filter to kill all OTs, which some do.
The only reason I bring this up is that I see in this group the same diverse
backgrounds and skills and I see the same possibility for animosity toward
those who post off topic subjects. Truth is, I personally count on the
Bearhawk e-group for better, more immediate information than I do Google. If
I want to know the yield strengh of 1018 steel, someone will spit it right
back. If I want to know Obama/McCain's take on anything, it'll come back
condensed and coherent with no politispeak involved. A specific question of
ANY kind on ANY subject will get a specific answer.
I'd suggest that this group decide amongst ourselves whether we want to keep
on one side of the YAK/CJ fence, or avail ourselves of the knowledge that's
on the other side, as represented by the membership, by allowing off topic
conversation (Civil conversation only) and marking it as such. It has to be
agreed upon so, either way, at least posters know the rules of the road.
Just tossing in my two-cents.
bd
On 11/2/08 8:52 AM, "keithmckinley" <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> wrote:
>
> No offense Steve but neither does a 9 line signature. kidding! OK
>
> IMO, as a new guy to this community, but not aviation, is that many folks on
> this list don't have the social luxury of hanging around fellow pilots as many
> of us do. Whether it's at a lively airport, an airline layover or drill
> weekend, pilots generally (sadly?) really enjoy each others company. Put two
> pilots together and what will they talk about 100% of the time.....planes,
> flying and maybe women.
>
> Now I didn't read the last post that "has nothing to do with yaks or cjs"
> which is the easiest thing to do If something on this board doesn't appeal to
> you. I did read the posts on the missing wing hoax and curiously enough when
I
> showed up for my last airline trip there were half a dozen pilots hovered
> around a computer watching it and judging it's merits.
>
> Soooo, this list may be a GREAT source of technical info but it's also
> somewhat of a social venue for many of our own.
>
> That said, I agree with Czech6, settle down for crying out loud and let's
> enjoy each others company just as we do in the air. The last thing anyone
> should want to do is alienate a Yak/CJ guy from coming to this BB.
>
> I'm goin' flying.
>
> Keith
> 700HS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211761#211761
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else |
wow
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211850#211850
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else |
Thanks for the show of support Walt, I wish everyone that feels the same way as
we do would log on let their feeling be known as well.? Maybe the few would
get the message once and for all.
Hope all is well in the North Country!!
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else
Gary;
?
I could not agree more. Your comments are right on
the money.
I had to seriously restrain myself from replying to
the latest idiotic post. If it continues I?likely will reply?and then
leave the list for good.
?
Best;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From:
vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:37
AM
Subject: Yak-List: Once and for all take
this crap somewhere else
Don't you
people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List, don't you know
that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass about what you think
unless it has something to do with aircraft?? In case you don't know it
this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on the world.?
Don't you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA because of just
this sort of thing??
Please do 99% of us a favor and take your
opinions, your views on the world and your attacks on members
someplace else, I for one am sick of
it.? Thank you for your attention.
Gary 'Bunndini'
Bunn
Nanchang Driver
AOL News.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS |
Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly from
Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their reactors. So
much for the WMDs.
Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival of the
Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it's storage site
from the end of the "war" until it transported to an atoll in the south
Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval vessels to Canadian
transports. Just imagine what would have happened if our good friends in
Iran got access to that weapons store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitions
were found too. As you remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the
Kurds.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/
As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not totally
agree with Bush either but.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Davis
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS
_____
I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely
you will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory?
I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11
sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your
garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away
in a year.
I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don't
know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality of
their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dollar
from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgage
crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the
past year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I'm
inclined to think that he didn't learn a great deal about economics while
getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last
month.
You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also
promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely
unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of
WMD.
The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all
its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lock
'em up and forget 'em is better? Unless of course you need to torture the
prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not
learn much while getting his "Gentleman's C" at Harvard Law?
I won't refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts
leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far
less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit.
He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the
Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US
imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the
worst president since Hoover.
For the record, I like Laura; she's smarter and nicer than monkey boy. And
the twins are hot.
I've downgraded George to quarterwit.
You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole.
On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote:
How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from
Princeton? He's richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally
agree with all he has done but I 'm sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore
the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his
intern cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name
of detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but
the Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did
not have until the Draft Dodger took office.
Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the
Demoncrats.be prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist
seeking "economic justice" for his race. Can you tell me what race that
would be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right!
Doc
rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
When your life is on the go-take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows MobileR
today
Message 18
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Put me down as in favor NO NON aircraft nonsense
Joe
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One
of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can
someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has?
I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend
warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler.
Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget.
Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any
advice. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913
Message 20
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| Subject: | Once and for all take this crap somewhere else |
I too wish it would stop! and I always agree with Mr.. Lannon, and sometimes
with Bunndini.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else
Thanks for the show of support Walt, I wish everyone that feels the same way
as we do would log on let their feeling be known as well. Maybe the few
would get the message once and for all.
Hope all is well in the North Country!!
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:43 pm
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else
Gary;
I could not agree more. Your comments are right on the money.
I had to seriously restrain myself from replying to the latest idiotic post.
If it continues I likely will reply and then leave the list for good.
Best;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else
Don't you people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List,
don't you know that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass
about what you think unless it has something to do with aircraft? In case
you don't know it this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on
the world. Don't you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA
because of just this sort of thing?
Please do 99% of us a favor and take your opinions, your views on the world
and your attacks on members someplace else, I for one am sick of it. Thank
you for your attention.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Nanchang Driver
AOL News.
AOL News.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
9:51 AM
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my
Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely
pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the
sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention
not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the
aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4.
I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82%
settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the
Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate
competition, and occasionaly even wins it.
Jan
YK50 RA2005K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac
Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions
Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out.
One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers.
Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has?
I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a
weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people
hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane
budget.
Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have
any advice. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions |
Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the
second one, would be nasty ...
My native tongue isn't English ...
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions
The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my
Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely
pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the
sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention
not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the
aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4.
I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82%
settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the
Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate
competition, and occasionaly even wins it.
Jan
YK50 RA2005K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac
Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions
Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out.
One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers.
Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has?
I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a
weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people
hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane
budget.
Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have
any advice. Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913
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