---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/03/08: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:19 AM - Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:09 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese) 2. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese) 3. 04:39 AM - Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Etiene Verhellen) 4. 04:57 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Richard Goode) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Etienne Verhellen) 6. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese) 7. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (bill wade) 8. 05:34 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Etienne Verhellen) 9. 05:37 AM - Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Etienne Verhellen) 10. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Jan Mevis) 11. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Jan Mevis) 12. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese) 13. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Roger Kemp MD) 14. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (A. Dennis Savarese) 15. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Roger Kemp MD) 16. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Jan Mevis) 17. 08:00 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Mark Davis) 18. 08:20 AM - Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (Mark Davis) 19. 08:28 AM - Re: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions (Roger Kemp MD) 20. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (William Yamokoski) 21. 09:39 AM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (Walter Lannon) 22. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (Roger Baker) 23. 10:21 AM - Service Bulletins - open letter to Ron Davis (Richard Goode) 24. 10:21 AM - Off-Topic Posts [Please Read] (Matt Dralle) 25. 10:24 AM - This List Is Worth Being A Part Of! (Rico Jaeger) 26. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS (Mark Davis) 27. 02:19 PM - Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? (skidmk) 28. 02:46 PM - Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? (keithmckinley) 29. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E) 30. 07:12 PM - Yak Fuel Gauge (TXYak) 31. 07:55 PM - CJ Rudder (Paul Dumoret) 32. 08:02 PM - Re: Yak Fuel Gauge (netmaster15@juno.com) 33. 08:53 PM - Re: Yak Fuel Gauge (TXYak) 34. 10:44 PM - Re: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else (Tom Elliott) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:25 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Yak-List: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists... Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:10 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"? A CJ owner? Common guys....don't scare the guy off. The airplane was a trainer! Read again....trainer. Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics. It was not designed to kill people. People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives. To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated. ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics. Proper training is the key. Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: AKMac To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:40 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:51 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions From: "Etiene Verhellen" I agree with Jan. The Yak 52 cannot be that bad for Aerobatics because the FAI is organising the 2nd Yak 52 World Aerobatic Championship in 2009 : http://events.fai.org/aerobatics/details.asp?id=4928 The 1st FAI Yak 52 World Aerobatic Championship (Yak WAC 2008) took place in Novosibirsk, Russia last August : http://www.wayakc2008.ru/ Regarding "biting during Aerobatics" ... ANY (aerobatic) aircraft can do that ! Get training from the Russians if you can (!!) ... or from an Flight Instructor who has good experience on the 52. Cheers, Etienne. http://www.pilotmarket.com/exams/Freelance_Flight_Instructors/listing-2904-11202.html PS : Glad you recovered your "conscience" Jan ... ;-)) _____________________________________________________________________________ Sujet : RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 --- Dj plus de 2000 de nos clients ne paient plus leur abonnement! Conseillez Scarlet et surfez gratuitement! >> http://www.scarlet.be/fr/mgm ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:00 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions With great respect to Dennis,a 52 can "bite" and indeed bite hard if mis-handled,particulrly in terms of recovery from a well-developed spin. Of course,with the correct training,this should not ever be a problem. However there are not vast numbers of instructors with the correct experience to instruct this spin-recovery,and,more relevant,relatively small numbers of owners/pilots of these planes bother to have this typpe of instruction. If I had doubts about the 52,I would not sell them as enthusiasticly as I do,but I an very conscious of the need for PROPER training with qualified instructors before aerobatics in the 52.Also,it is sensitive to rearward C of G,and DOSAAF 52's were not allowed more thn 90 kgs,including parachute in either cockpit[that's about 198 lbs.] Richard Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"? A CJ owner? Common guys....don't scare the guy off. The airplane was a trainer! Read again....trainer. Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics. It was not designed to kill people. People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives. To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated. ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics. Proper training is the key. Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: AKMac To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics ========================< ; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:12 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions From: "Etienne Verhellen" I meant : I agree with Dennis, Jan. If you loose consciousness, Jan, YOU have pulled to hard. NOT the aircraft's fault ! An like Dennis says : (conversion) training is indeed the key. Cheers. http://www.buysellaviation.com/index.php?page=out&id=477 -------- http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/photos/profile.php?uid=84 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212020#212020 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:36 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions With the same respect to you as well Richard, proper training is the key as you and I have both clearly stated. However, for someone to simply say the aircraft can bite you during aerobatics, without any sort of clarification, is unjustified and can be interpreted incorrectly. You have clarified the issue for the unknowing and uninformed and I thank you for that. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Goode To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:56 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions With great respect to Dennis,a 52 can "bite" and indeed bite hard if mis-handled,particulrly in terms of recovery from a well-developed spin. Of course,with the correct training,this should not ever be a problem. However there are not vast numbers of instructors with the correct experience to instruct this spin-recovery,and,more relevant,relatively small numbers of owners/pilots of these planes bother to have this typpe of instruction. If I had doubts about the 52,I would not sell them as enthusiasticly as I do,but I an very conscious of the need for PROPER training with qualified instructors before aerobatics in the 52.Also,it is sensitive to rearward C of G,and DOSAAF 52's were not allowed more thn 90 kgs,including parachute in either cockpit[that's about 198 lbs.] Richard Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Hereford HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129 www.russianaeros.com ----- Original Message ----- From: A. Dennis Savarese To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"? A CJ owner? Common guys....don't scare the guy off. The airplane was a trainer! Read again....trainer. Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics. It was not designed to kill people. People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives. To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated. ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics. Proper training is the key. Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: AKMac To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics ========================< ; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by http://www.invictawiz.com and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:55 AM PST US From: bill wade Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Hi AKMac flying acro in the Yak 52, the one thing that I found would have d efinitely killed the airplane (without proper training) "the flat spin". Ha d-I entered one prior to training the airplane would be in pieces, always practice acro HI HI HI and look at the NTSB reports regularly. Regular spi ns upright and inverted are non events but let it go flat and not knowing t he proper procedure and control inputs the airplane will not come out. Got my training with Nikolay Timofeev. The Yak 52 has taught me a lot about fly ing.=0ABill Wade=0AN4450Y=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFro m: AKMac =0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday , November 2, 2008 11:12:50 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-5 l.com>=0A=0AThanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you hel ping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aeroba tic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has?=0A=0AI see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just loo king for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross coun try people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget.=0A=0AAny buyers guides, or things to look for would be qui te helpful if you have any advice. Thanks.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic on line here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 ========0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:01 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions From: "Etienne Verhellen" NOW, I agree with Dennis AND Richard. It boils down to TRAINING. I teach Unusual attitudes & Spin Recovery (after teaching Spin entry sometimes !) - "normal" plain vanilla spins, competition spins, accelerated, FLAT - upright & inverted. http://www.forseilles.net/gallery/sanicole/B2V0752 http://www.yak52.fr/topic11/Yak52FLATSPIN.jpg And for that I have to sit in the back seat sometimes ! With a good parachute and never below 3000ft AGL. And indeed the 52 is a FANTASTIC (training) aircraft ! _____________________________________________________________ http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=5514 http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=5512 -------- http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/photos/profile.php?uid=84 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212025#212025 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:40 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions From: "Etienne Verhellen" Go ahead Mac ! FLY one ! Get one ! The Yak 52 will give you a lot of FUN and you will find a lot of help on this list. -------- http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/photos/profile.php?uid=84 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212029#212029 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:57 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions It's the pilot of course, always. I thought that that was clear. Jan From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 13:16 Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:43 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, it is always the pilot. I only know something about the Yak 50, that is what I commented. The first time I flew aerobatics with the 50, I flew it just the way I used flying the Pitts. At 82%. And its scared me. That is the truth. Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Etienne Verhellen Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 14:06 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions I meant : I agree with Dennis, Jan. If you loose consciousness, Jan, YOU have pulled to hard. NOT the aircraft's fault ! An like Dennis says : (conversion) training is indeed the key. Cheers. http://www.buysellaviation.com/index.php?page=out&id=477 -------- http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/photos/profile.php?uid=84 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212020#212020 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:24 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Yep. You're right on the money Jan. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions It=92s the pilot of course, always. I thought that that was clear. Jan From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 13:16 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics ========================< ; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:33 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp MD" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Agree with Dennis. Yesterday was at the top of a loop at 90 kilometers/hour and zero G. She hung there "unloaded" quite nicely without the least interest in stalling. I do not recommend doing that for those that are not comfortable with spin entry and recovery. The gotcahas' with this aircraft is poor FOD control and not knowing how to do spin recovery. Recognizing the impending entry makes it a lot easier to prevent having to recover. Flying with a competent IP in the YAK is a start then going out and flying with someone like Sergei if you still are not comfortable with Acro in this aircraft. She is not an airplane to be afraid of. She is a plane to respect and knowing your entry speeds along with knowing the recovery techniques will make you very comfortable flying this aircraft. FOD prevention is a must or you could end up in a unrecoverable state with the screw driver, knife, ect lodged in the elevator counter weight . The is another thread. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:08 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"? A CJ owner? Common guys....don't scare the guy off. The airplane was a trainer! Read again....trainer. Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics. It was not designed to kill people. People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives. To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated. ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics. Proper training is the key. Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: AKMac Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:01 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Doc's point about FOD control is paramount. Not only in the 52, but in any aircraft you intend to do aerobatics in. As for the 52, it is well documented in the accident reports that the elevator bell crank is most susceptible to FOD jamming. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 8:03 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Agree with Dennis. Yesterday was at the top of a loop at 90 kilometers/hour and zero G. She hung there =93unloaded=94 quite nicely without the least interest in stalling. I do not recommend doing that for those that are not comfortable with spin entry and recovery. The gotcahas=92 with this aircraft is poor FOD control and not knowing how to do spin recovery. Recognizing the impending entry makes it a lot easier to prevent having to recover. Flying with a competent IP in the YAK is a start then going out and flying with someone like Sergei if you still are not comfortable with Acro in this aircraft. She is not an airplane to be afraid of. She is a plane to respect and knowing your entry speeds along with knowing the recovery techniques will make you very comfortable flying this aircraft. FOD prevention is a must or you could end up in a unrecoverable state with the screw driver, knife, ect lodged in the elevator counter weight . The is another thread. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:08 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Who said. "the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers"? A CJ owner? Common guys....don't scare the guy off. The airplane was a trainer! Read again....trainer. Primary and aerobatic up through intermediate levels of aerobatics. It was not designed to kill people. People were trained in this airplane that never touched or felt and airplane before in their lives. To say the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers is clearly over stated. ANY airplane can bite you if not flown correctly, particularly during aerobatics. Proper training is the key. Contact me off-list if you want to discuss the benefits of either of these two fine airplanes. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: AKMac To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:12 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics ========================< ; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:04 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp MD" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Jan, Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less. Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too. Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G's as they build up. Glad you survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not. If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland? Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:02 AM PST US From: "Jan Mevis" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the good advise, Doc! From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp MD Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 15:35 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Jan, Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less. Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too. Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G's as they build up. Glad you survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not. If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland? Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:20 AM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Being properly hydrated particularly in warm weather seems to make a significant difference in my g tolerance. I think I recall it being discussed in my Navy training also. Dehydration also effects judgement. I always drink a bottle of water before any flight that will involve any high g maneuvering and carry a bottle with me on longer flights on hot days. Rapid but controlled pull versus just snatching the g allows you to pull until onset of grey and then I unload and roll wings level if any doubt before turning back into a fight. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Jan, Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less. Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too. Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G's as they build up. Glad you survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not. If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland? Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics ========================< ; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 11/2/2008 9:51 AM ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:55 AM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Yak-List: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS The following clip isn't political, it's factual. The entire world believed the existence of Saddam's WMDs long before Bush was in office. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7CsH_5UTkw&feature=related History will prove whether it was the right decision. But the rewritten history claiming Bush fabricated everything isn't true. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly from Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their reactors. So much for the WMDs. Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival of the Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it's storage site from the end of the "war" until it transported to an atoll in the south Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval vessels to Canadian transports. Just imagine what would have happened if our good friends in Iran got access to that weapons store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitions were found too. As you remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the Kurds. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/ As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not totally agree with Bush either but. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Davis Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely you will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory? I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11 sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away in a year. I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don't know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality of their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dollar from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgage crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the past year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I'm inclined to think that he didn't learn a great deal about economics while getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last month. You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of WMD. The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lock 'em up and forget 'em is better? Unless of course you need to torture the prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not learn much while getting his "Gentleman's C" at Harvard Law? I won't refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit. He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the worst president since Hoover. For the record, I like Laura; she's smarter and nicer than monkey boy. And the twins are hot. I've downgraded George to quarterwit. You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole. On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote: How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from Princeton? He's richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally agree with all he has done but I 'm sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his intern cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name of detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but the Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did not have until the Draft Dodger took office. Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the Demoncrats.be prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist seeking "economic justice" for his race. Can you tell me what race that would be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right! Doc rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listttp://forums.mat ronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- When your life is on the go-take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows Mobile=AE today http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 11/2/2008 9:51 AM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:32 AM PST US From: "Roger Kemp MD" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Sage advice that I left out. Not intentionally, just was not snap thinking of it. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Being properly hydrated particularly in warm weather seems to make a significant difference in my g tolerance. I think I recall it being discussed in my Navy training also. Dehydration also effects judgement. I always drink a bottle of water before any flight that will involve any high g maneuvering and carry a bottle with me on longer flights on hot days. Rapid but controlled pull versus just snatching the g allows you to pull until onset of grey and then I unload and roll wings level if any doubt before turning back into a fight. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:34 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Jan, Have you had training in the Anti-G maneuvers? Aerobic and weight training also help with increasing your G tolerance. Flying under high G frequently also improves your tolerance. Laying off for a few days will cause your tolerance to be less. Your G tolerance will vary from day to day so doing a G warm up before going into a full up routine will help you to determine where you are on that day too. Starting the Anti-G strain before you start your pull will help keep you ahead of the G's as they build up. Glad you survived your 42 seconds of GLOCK. Many do not. If you can get in touch with the flight physiology or flight medicine department at one of your local fighter bases should be helpful in getting you trained. If memory serves correctly, you are in Belgium or was it Holland? Any other questions about Anti-G maneuvers, contact me off list. Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions So why is it a problem with the airplanes flight characteristics when you pull more G's than your body can handle and lose consciousness? Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Jan Mevis Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Of course, I ment "consciousness" instead of "conscience". Loosing the second one, would be nasty ... My native tongue isn't English ... Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 8:12 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions The Yak can indeed bite hard during aerobatics. The first times I flew my Yak 50, it was scaring, to be honest. I once lost conscience completely pulling a LOT of G's at a high speed, but was lucky to be high up in the sky. Now I've learned to control it better. And I definitely pay attention not pulling too much G-s. Not only for my own sake, but also for the aircraft. So I never do more than +6 and -4. I'd go only for gentile, sportsman aerobatics in a Yak 50, not even at 82% settings. For flying aerobatics at a higher level, I prefer the Pitts or the Extra. Although a friend of mine flies the Yak 52 in Intermediate competition, and occasionaly even wins it. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AKMac Sent: maandag 3 november 2008 5:13 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Want to buy a Yak-52, have some questions Thanks for the reply's guys. I've got a few emails from you helping me out. One of which mentioned that the Yak can bite you during aerobatic maneuvers. Can someone explain the bad handling qualities that the Yak has? I see that the CJ is also a popular airplane. I'm really just looking for a weekend warrior intermediate aerobatic machine, not a cross country people hauler. Plus the Yak is about 25k cheaper which puts it into my airplane budget. Any buyers guides, or things to look for would be quite helpful if you have any advice. Thanks. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211913#211913 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics==== ===================<; via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _____ 11/2/2008 9:51 AM ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:23 AM PST US From: "William Yamokoski" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS I just can't take it any more. This list offers good information for future YAK owners like me, but it's just not worth the aggravation. there are other ways of getting information. See you in the funny papers. Bill Yamokoski On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis wrote: > The following clip isn't political, it's factual. The entire world > believed the existence of Saddam's WMDs long before Bush was in office. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7CsH_5UTkw&feature=related History will > prove whether it was the right decision. But the rewritten history claim ing > Bush fabricated everything isn't true. > > Mark Davis > N44YK > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Roger Kemp MD > *To:* yak-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:42 PM > *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN > ECONOMICS > > Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly from > Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their reactors. So > much for the WMDs. > > Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival of th e > Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it's storage site > from the end of the "war" until it transported to an atoll in the south > Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval vessels to Canadian > transports. Just imagine what would have happened if our good friends in > Iran got access to that weapons store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitio ns > were found too. As you remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the > Kurds. > > http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/ > > As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not totally > agree with Bush either but=85 > > Doc > > > *From:* owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Ron Davis > *Sent:* Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM > *To:* yak-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN > ECONOMICS > > > ------------------------------ > > > I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely > you will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory? > > > I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11 > sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your > garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it aw ay > in a year. > > > I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don 't > know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality of > their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dolla r > from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgag e > crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the > past year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I'm > inclined to think that he didn't learn a great deal about economics while > getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last > month. > > > You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also > promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely > unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of > WMD. > > > The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach a ll > its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of l ock > 'em up and forget 'em is better? Unless of course you need to torture th e > prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not > learn much while getting his "Gentleman's C" at Harvard Law? > > > I won't refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts > leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far > less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit. > > > He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the > Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US > imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the > worst president since Hoover. > > > For the record, I like Laura; she's smarter and nicer than monkey boy. A nd > the twins are hot. > > > I've downgraded George to quarterwit. > > > You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole. > > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote: > > > How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from > Princeton? He's richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally > agree with all he has done but I 'm sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore > the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his > intern cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the na me > of detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but > the Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they di d > not have until the Draft Dodger took office. > > Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the > Demoncrats=85be prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist > seeking "economic justice" for his race. Can you tell me what race that > would be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right! > > Doc > > > * * > > * * > > *rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List* > > *ttp://forums.matronics.com* > > *=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > * * > > > ------------------------------ > > When your life is on the go=97take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows Mobi le(R) > today > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Yak-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com* > > ------------------------------ > 11/2/2008 9:51 AM > > * > =========== =========== =========== ============* > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:40 AM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Thanks Tom. But what's with this Mr. Lannon -- am I that old?? Cheers; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Elliott To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else I too wish it would stop! and I always agree with Mr.. Lannon, and sometimes with Bunndini. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vectorwarbirds@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:24 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Thanks for the show of support Walt, I wish everyone that feels the same way as we do would log on let their feeling be known as well. Maybe the few would get the message once and for all. Hope all is well in the North Country!! Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:43 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Gary; I could not agree more. Your comments are right on the money. I had to seriously restrain myself from replying to the latest idiotic post. If it continues I likely will reply and then leave the list for good. Best; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Don't you people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List, don't you know that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass about what you think unless it has something to do with aircraft? In case you don't know it this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on the world. Don't you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA because of just this sort of thing? Please do 99% of us a favor and take your opinions, your views on the world and your attacks on members someplace else, I for one am sick of it. Thank you for your attention. Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn Nanchang Driver AOL News. AOL News. matronics.com/contribution //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List cs.com >Checked 1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 9:51 AM ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:05 AM PST US From: Roger Baker Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS I think Bill is right. The Yak List is no longer worth the aggravation. On rare occasion, there is good technical and operational information to be found here. But the rest of the time, we have a dog and pony show by about a half dozen people who give endless opinion....much of the time on subjects about which they know little or nothing. None of them reflect my views on anything...so, I'm giving it up. I am cancelling my registration on the list. I may come back some day...but if it's still the same cast of characters...I won't stay. Roger Baker___________________________________________________________________ _____________ On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:32 AM, William Yamokoski wrote: > I just can't take it any more. This list offers good information > for future YAK owners like me, but it's just not worth the > aggravation. there are other ways of getting information. See > you in the funny papers. > Bill Yamokoski > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis wrote: > The following clip isn't political, it's factual. The entire world > believed the existence of Saddam's WMDs long before Bush was in > office. http://www.youtube.com/watch? > v=C7CsH_5UTkw&feature=related History will prove whether it was > the right decision. But the rewritten history claiming Bush > fabricated everything isn't true. > > Mark Davis > N44YK > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Kemp MD > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:42 PM > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN > ECONOMICS > > Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly > from Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their > reactors. So much for the WMDs. > > Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival > of the Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it's > storage site from the end of the "war" until it transported to an > atoll in the south Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval > vessels to Canadian transports. Just imagine what would have > happened if our good friends in Iran got access to that weapons > store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitions were found too. As you > remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the Kurds. > > http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 > > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/ > > As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not > totally agree with Bush either but=85 > > Doc > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Davis > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN > ECONOMICS > > > I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. > Surely you will agree that his speechifying is none too very > impressatory? > > > I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the > post-9/11 sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire > free world. Your garden-variety genius would have leveraged that > rather than pissing it away in a year. > > > I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. > I don't know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion > on the quality of their institution. Since Bush has presided over > the decline of the dollar from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 > Euro cents, the banking/mortgage crisis, the increase of energy > costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the past year, and what is > widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I'm inclined to > think that he didn't learn a great deal about economics while > getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market > crash last month. > > > You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran > also promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most > likely unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely > fraudulent allegations of WMD. > > > The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard > teach all its law students that due process is evil and that the > Soviet system of lock 'em up and forget 'em is better? Unless of > course you need to torture the prisoners in the interests of > national security. Or, did Bush just not learn much while getting > his "Gentleman's C" at Harvard Law? > > > I won't refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the > facts leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter > deserves a far less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit. > > > He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he > gets the Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of > everything the US imports from China by a factor of seven, he can > still become known as the worst president since Hoover. > > > For the record, I like Laura; she's smarter and nicer than monkey > boy. And the twins are hot. > > > I've downgraded George to quarterwit. > > > You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole. > > > On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote: > > > How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in > Economics from Princeton? He's richer than any of our miserable > asses. I do not totally agree with all he has done but I 'm sure > the Earth is getting to hot Gore the bore would have really screwed > it up. It is because of him and his intern cigar poking boss that > gave away a number of our secrets in the name of detante (and > campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but the > Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they > did not have until the Draft Dodger took office. > > Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office > from the Demoncrats=85be prepared to give all your earned income to > this socialist seeking "economic justice" for his race. Can you > tell me what race that would be? 143 days and he is qualified to > lead the world, Right! > > Doc > > > rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > When your life is on the go=97take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows > Mobile=AE today > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > http://forums.matronics.com > > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak- > List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > 11/2/2008 9:51 AM > > > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List > a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http:// > forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:00 AM PST US From: "Richard Goode" Subject: Yak-List: Service Bulletins - open letter to Ron Davis To be blunt, I cannot understand the point that you are making, unless you are saying that AD's / SB's are not compulsory on "Experimental" aircraft - which of course I know. My points are simple: a.. I have been involved with Russian aeroplanes and Yaks for twenty-three years - I expect more than most. b.. I sell these aircraft, and have a real incentive that they are safe, and that people do not have problems with them. c.. I have a real concern therefore when people say, in a very simplistic fashion, that their 50 or 52 has the "heavy spar". With the 52 there are three separate wing Service Bulletins, and the 50 is far more complex, with six separate significant structural modifications on the wing alone. d.. The Yak-50 is an extremely tough aeroplane, but it is NOT +9 and -7G without these modifications. e.. Indeed I think that anyone who flies ANY Yak-50 at much over +6G today (and that is all you need) to be imprudent. f.. You ask for "one example of an AD to an Experimental aircraft" - I honestly do not know what you are looking for. However the simple fact is that there have been four fatal accidents following total structural failure on Yak-50s. Of course these were aircraft without all the modifications and being flown very hard by very competitive Soviet pilots. g.. However there are sixty-seven Yak-50s still around, and I know that some of these are still being flown hard, including planes that are not fully modified. This is what I cannot understand! h.. For those who would like more of the history of Yak-50 structural issues please see the following link: http://www.russianaeros.com/Yak-50%20Service%20Bulletins%20after%20crashe s.htm Richard Goode Aerobatics Rhodds Farm Lyonshall Herefordshire HR5 3LW United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120 Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129 www.russianaeros.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:42 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Yak-List: Off-Topic Posts [Please Read] Dear Yak Listers, I have received a number of complaints about the off-topic and controversial nature of a few recent posts to the Yak-List. The Yak-List is for discussions regarding *aircraft* and specifically the Yak and CJ aircraft. Here is a clear statement on this from the List's Usage Guidelines found here at http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm : "Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc." The political discussion and the follow up banter absolutely do not belong on the Yak-List. I do not moderate the Lists at Matronics because I expect users to police themselves and act like adults. Keeping the List content on topic is everyone's responsibility. Please read over the List Usage Guidelines below and follow them. Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Yak-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Yak-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Yak-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Yak-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Yak-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:34 AM PST US From: "Rico Jaeger" Subject: Yak-List: This List Is Worth Being A Part Of! I=27m sorry guys, but I have to respectfully disagree. I=27m not anyone special and I=27m not even a Yak / CJ owner - YET - but I joined because of my fascination w/ the types - hoping to make a few connections and possibly network. Well, I got that - AND what feels like a technical manual=27s worth of interesting and very worthwhile details concerning both types of fabulous aircraft. I have very close friends - even family members - whose political opinions differ from mine. When they attempt to engage me, I don=27t attempt to reform. We share other common interests and we simply agree to =22live and let live.=22 You guys have a GREAT thing going here. It=27s a trying time for our country right now, but I=27m convinced things will begin an upswing soon. Maintain your beliefs w/ your passionate conviction, but don=27t let that blind you as to why we choose to communicate here: for aviation - one of the greatest gifts God ever allowed us=21 Remember, true friendship is accepting those around you as they are. (Sorry if this is out of line - it is meant sincerely and w/ all due respect=21) Keep the faith and KEEP =27EM FLYING=21 >>> Roger Baker 11/3/2008 11:58 AM >>> I think Bill is right. The Yak List is no longer worth the aggravation. On rare occasion, there is good technical and operational information to be found here. But the rest of the time, we have a dog and pony show by about a half dozen people who give endless opinion....much of the time on subjects about which they know little or nothing. None of them reflect my views on anything...so, I=27m giving it up. I am cancelling my registration on the list. I may come back some day...but if it=27s still the same cast of characters...I won=27t stay. Roger Baker______________________________________________________________________ __________ On Nov 3, 2008, at 8:32 AM, William Yamokoski wrote: I just can=27t take it any more. This list offers good information for future YAK owners like me, but it=27s just not worth the aggravation. there are other ways of getting information. See you in the funny papers. Bill Yamokoski On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis wrote: The following clip isn=27t political, it=27s factual. The entire world believed the existence of Saddam=27s WMDs long before Bush was in office. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7CsH_5UTkw&feature=related History will prove whether it was the right decision. But the rewritten history claiming Bush fabricated everything isn=27t true. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD ( mailto:viperdoc=40mindspring.com ) Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly from Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their reactors. So much for the WMDs. Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival of the Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it=27s storage site from the end of the =22war=22 until it transported to an atoll in the south Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval vessels to Canadian transports. Just imagine what would have happened if our good friends in Iran got access to that weapons store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitions were found too. As you remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the Kurds. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/ As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not totally agree with Bush either but Doc From:owner-yak-list-server=40matronics.com =5Bmailto:owner-yak-list-server=40matronics.com=5D On Behalf Of Ron Davis Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on list ening to him. Surely you will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory? I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11 sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away in a year. I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don=27t know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality of their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dollar from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgage crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the past year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I=27m inclined to think that he didn=27t learn a great deal about economics while getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last month. You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of WMD. The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lock =27em up and forget =27em is better? Unless of course you need to torture the prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not learn much while getting his =22Gentleman=27s C=22 at Harvard Law? I won=27t refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit. He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the worst president since Hoover. For the record, I like Laura; she=27s smarter and nicer than monkey boy. And the twins are hot. I=27ve downgraded George to quarterwit. You don=27t want to get me started on the hapa haole. On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote: How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from Princeton? He=27s richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally agree with all he has done but I =27m sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his intern cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name of detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but the Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did not have until the Draft Dodger took office. Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the Demoncratsbe prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist seeking =22economic justice=22 for his race. Can you tell me what race that would be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right=21 Doc rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listttp://forums.matro nics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ )=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution When your life is on the go=94take your life wt==27_new=27>Try Windows Mobile=C2=AE today http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak -Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ ) href==22http://www.matronics.com/contribution=22>http://www.matronics.com /chref==22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=22>http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref==22http://forums.matronics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ )=22>http://forums.matronics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ ) 11/2/2008 9:51 AM _blank=22>http://www.matronics.com/contributionet==22_blank=22>http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Lista href==22http://forums.matronics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ )/=22 target==22_blank=22>http://forums.matronics.com ( http://forums.matronics.com/ ) href==22http://www.matronics.com/contribution=22>http://www.matronics.com /contributionhref==22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List=22>http: //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref==22http://forums.matronics.com =22>http://forums.matronics.com on year=27s your ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:21 AM PST US From: "Mark Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS Bill, I added the "OT" to the address line like was suggested to warn anyone that the post was not YAK related. My intent was to inform, not offend. I personally just don't like anyone re-writing history. The truth is like sunlight, generally a good disinfectant and is neither a Republican or Democrat domain. I was trying to shine a little sunlight on the earlier post on this thread stating Pres. Bush's "deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of WMD". My apologies to anyone offended, but everyone is entitled to their opinions, but not spreading mistruths. Tomorrow or whenever the vote is final, let's all go back to just YAKking. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: William Yamokoski To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: OT Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS I just can't take it any more. This list offers good information for future YAK owners like me, but it's just not worth the aggravation. there are other ways of getting information. See you in the funny papers. Bill Yamokoski On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis wrote: The following clip isn't political, it's factual. The entire world believed the existence of Saddam's WMDs long before Bush was in office. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7CsH_5UTkw&feature=related History will prove whether it was the right decision. But the rewritten history claiming Bush fabricated everything isn't true. Mark Davis N44YK ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Kemp MD To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 7:42 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS Guess you missed the 550 metric tons of yellow cake move secretly from Bagdad 1 year ago too. It was sold to Canada to use in their reactors. So much for the WMDs. Unbelievably, MSNBC was the only news network to report the arrival of the Uranium in Canada. We (the US) guarded and sat on it at it's storage site from the end of the "war" until it transported to an atoll in the south Pacific where it was transferred from US Naval vessels to Canadian transports. Just imagine what would have happened if our good friends in Iran got access to that weapons store. Also Sarin and Mustard gas munitions were found too. As you remember, that was what Chemical Ali used on the Kurds. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/page/2/ As I said, opinions are like assholes, we all have them. I do not totally agree with Bush either but=85 Doc From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Davis Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 11:38 AM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Different Props for Housai MASTERS IN ECONOMICS ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - I referred to Bush as a halfwit based solely on listening to him. Surely you will agree that his speechifying is none too very impressatory? I may have subconsciously factored in his squandering of the post-9/11 sympathy and support for the US of virtually the entire free world. Your garden-variety genius would have leveraged that rather than pissing it away in a year. I was unaware that Bush has a masters in economics from Princeton. I don't know anyone from Princeton and had never formed an opinion on the quality of their institution. Since Bush has presided over the decline of the dollar from 1.06 Euro to its current value of 66 Euro cents, the banking/mortgage crisis, the increase of energy costs by 80%, food increases of 7% in the past year, and what is widely, if not officially, termed a recession. I'm inclined to think that he didn't learn a great deal about economics while getting his masters degree. Oh, and there is that stock market crash last month. You failed to bring up his military prowess. This seasoned veteran also promulgated an extraordinarily expensive, unpopular, and most likely unwinable war under deeply flawed, if not entirely fraudulent allegations of WMD. The lesser Bush also has a law degree from Harvard. Does Harvard teach all its law students that due process is evil and that the Soviet system of lock 'em up and forget 'em is better? Unless of course you need to torture the prisoners in the interests of national security. Or, did Bush just not learn much while getting his "Gentleman's C" at Harvard Law? I won't refer to Bush as a half-wit again. A careful review of the facts leads me to conclude that the worst president since Carter deserves a far less complementary appellation, perhaps quarter wit. He has five months left, of course, to change his legacy. If he gets the Chinese to raise the rmb to parity raising the price of everything the US imports from China by a factor of seven, he can still become known as the worst president since Hoover. For the record, I like Laura; she's smarter and nicer than monkey boy. And the twins are hot. I've downgraded George to quarterwit. You don't want to get me started on the hapa haole. On Aug 12, 2008, at 10:32 PM, Roger Kemp MD wrote: How can you say Bush is a dim wit when he has a Masters in Economics from Princeton? He's richer than any of our miserable asses. I do not totally agree with all he has done but I 'm sure the Earth is getting to hot Gore the bore would have really screwed it up. It is because of him and his intern cigar poking boss that gave away a number of our secrets in the name of detante (and campaign donations) to the Chinese. The past is the past but the Chinese do have the technology to manufacture MIRVS now which they did not have until the Draft Dodger took office. Now moving on to the naturalized citizen running for the office from the Demoncrats=85be prepared to give all your earned income to this socialist seeking "economic justice" for his race. Can you tell me what race that would be? 143 days and he is qualified to lead the world, Right! Doc rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listttp://forums.mat ronics.com=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - When your life is on the go=97take your life wt='_new'>Try Windows Mobile=AE today http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - 11/2/2008 9:51 AM _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 11/3/2008 7:46 AM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:32 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? From: "skidmk" I'm doing some major panel work this winter,, and a digital RPM is the plan.. did you get a response to this question? -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212150#212150 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:03 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? From: "keithmckinley" Hey Mike, The answer: NO I shot you an email Keith Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212154#212154 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: pulses per revolution on the Housai? From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" I have installed this particular one on several YAK and SUKHOI aircraft. (Horizon P-1000) http://www.sarasotaavionics.com.product.aspx?id=125 It has several advantages in that it uses the P-LEAD wire off EACH mag, (no tach gen) and thus will work off either one. Since it connects to BOTH P-Leaks, it also keeps track of the condition of each mag constantly and if one fails. It actually is using two RPM system simultaneously ... One for each mag. If it sees differences between the two, it also alerts you. Very handy. It also keeps track of total engine time, and has an over speed warning indication that can be preset, etc. All in all a very unique instrument well worth $500 or so. In the ones I have installed (only M-14) we have removed the tach gen and installed a blank off plate. EXTREME caution must be taken here to NOT remove the wrong plate, or take too much apart in this area. Do not experiment... Get someone who knows EXACTLY what they are doing, or you will end up disturbing the timing of the air start distributor system which is one of the worst things in the world to try and get right again. You have been warned. Downside of the system is partially due to the same thing that makes it so nice. It taps the P Leaks. If you do not keep these shielded properly, you ARE going to end up getting noise into your radio(s). On the same note ... Of general interest... Is that if you ever get really BAD BAD noise in your headset, you can easily test this in flight by simply turning your mags off one at a time. If the noise goes away, you more than likely have a broken shield on your P leak right at the mag. This happens ALL the time because owners tend to just remove the clip that holds the screw in wire connector in place, and then turn the wire plug with out holding the back piece in place. This ends up twisting the whole mess and quickly shears off the shield from the plug AT the connector. If turning off one, or both mags does NOT solve the issue, you more than likely have a broken ground wire on the TACH generator. The noise from this can be so catastrophic that it can actually damage the RF amp stage in the original Russian radio (Balkan 5) receiver. Warning... If this ever happens to you.. Turn the radio OFF. Hope this helps Skidmk, have a nice day. Mark Bitterlich I'm doing some major panel work this winter,, and a digital RPM is the plan.. did you get a response to this question? -------- Mike "Skidmk" Bourget Ottawa, Ontario ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:10 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Yak Fuel Gauge From: "TXYak" In an effort to figure out why the fuel gauge doesn't work on my Yak 52 project...I removed it and pulled the case apart. There's nothing inside of it. F---ing Russians. Anybody have or know where to find a new/used one? Chris Keating 972-489-4504 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212196#212196 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:16 PM PST US From: "Paul Dumoret" <3bar@telus.net> Subject: Yak-List: CJ Rudder Gang, I have a rudder for a CJ-6A for sale in excellent condition, with clean fabric by Lannon Aviation, primed and ready for your colors. Please contact me off list if interested. Paul Dumoret N75485 250-4535-0395 3bar@telus.net ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:47 PM PST US From: "netmaster15@juno.com" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak Fuel Gauge Chris Keating; Upon discovering a partially inop fuel indicator in my ya k 50 a year or two ago, I contacted Jill Genetzke Hayse in Kingman Arizo na. She said she had a used one on hand but did not know if it worked. W hen I received it I put it into my aircraft and found that it too was pa rtially inop-except that it was slightly less inop than my original uni t ; still, all the lights were not functioning. I swapped bulbs around b ut never was able to achieve a fully functioning unit. At that time, Jil l indicated that these units were hard to find. I don't know what the pr esent availability is; I'm still operating with the top two light level s inop and timing my fuel use. Suggest you contact Jill and make an inqu iry. Cliff Umscheid -- "TXYak" wrote: In an effort to figure out why the fuel gauge doesn't work on my Yak 52 project...I removed it and pulled the case apart. There's nothing insid e of it. F---ing Russians. Anybody have or know where to find a new/us ed one? Chris Keating 972-489-4504 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212196#212196 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:43 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak Fuel Gauge From: "TXYak" Cliff, I did talk to Jill today. She doesn't have any in stock, but may be able to track one down. I was hoping to find someone with a salvage airplane and not have to wait for one from Europe. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212202#212202 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:17 PM PST US From: "Tom Elliott" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Not in age, In wisdom yes! Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Thanks Tom. But what's with this Mr. Lannon -- am I that old?? Cheers; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Elliott Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:29 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else I too wish it would stop! and I always agree with Mr.. Lannon, and sometimes with Bunndini. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of vectorwarbirds@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Thanks for the show of support Walt, I wish everyone that feels the same way as we do would log on let their feeling be known as well. Maybe the few would get the message once and for all. Hope all is well in the North Country!! Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn -----Original Message----- From: Walter Lannon Sent: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 12:43 pm Subject: Re: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Gary; I could not agree more. Your comments are right on the money. I had to seriously restrain myself from replying to the latest idiotic post. If it continues I likely will reply and then leave the list for good. Best; Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 10:37 AM Subject: Yak-List: Once and for all take this crap somewhere else Don't you people know that all this BS does not belong on the Yak List, don't you know that 99% of us getting your emails don't give a rats ass about what you think unless it has something to do with aircraft? In case you don't know it this is a forum for aircraft and pilots, not your views on the world. Don't you know that many pilots have quit the Yak list and RPA because of just this sort of thing? Please do 99% of us a favor and take your opinions, your views on the world and your attacks on members someplace else, I for one am sick of it. Thank you for your attention. Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn Nanchang Driver AOL News. AOL News. matronics.com/contribution //www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List cs.com >Checked 1762 - Release Date: 11/2/2008 9:51 AM Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:46 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.