Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:22 AM - List Fund Raiser (Matt Dralle)
1. 12:05 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (Nigel Willson)
2. 03:37 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 03:38 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 04:29 AM - Re: Dennis Saverese issue on Yak 18T delivery (bad list reply) (Aleksej)
5. 04:41 AM - 52 (Richard Goode)
6. 04:55 AM - Re: 52 (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 05:17 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (Jan Mevis)
8. 05:23 AM - CJ-6 PRV (Jim Shanks)
9. 05:46 AM - Re: CJ-6 PRV (doug sapp)
10. 05:47 AM - Re: Re: Yak Fuel Gauge (netmaster15@juno.com)
11. 05:48 AM - Re: CJ-6 PRV (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 06:31 AM - Re: 52 (bill wade)
13. 06:37 AM - Re: Yak Fuel Gauge (Craig Winkelmann)
14. 07:32 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (Etienne Verhellen)
15. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (Herb Coussons)
16. 11:59 AM - Re: Dennis Saverese issue on Yak 18T delivery (bad list reply) (Aleksej)
17. 12:11 PM - Re: CJ-6 PRV (keithmckinley)
18. 12:25 PM - Re: CJ-6 PRV (keithmckinley)
19. 12:31 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (A. Dennis Savarese)
20. 01:34 PM - Calling Brian Lloyd ... (scott.huff@aivia.aero)
21. 01:36 PM - Re: CJ-6 PRV (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
22. 04:27 PM - Re: Cockpit bulbs (N642K)
23. 04:39 PM - Re: Landing Gear Indicator LED's (N642K)
24. 11:20 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 (Jan Mevis)
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser |
A couple of years ago I implemented an automatic "squelch button" of sorts for
the Fund Raiser messages. Here's how it works... As soon as a List member makes
a
Contribution through the Matronics Fund Raiser web site, he or she will instantly
cease to receive these Fund Raiser messages for the rest of the month! Its
just that simple. Don't you wish PBS worked that way! :-)
I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support
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control and monitor every aspect of the system for the utmost in reliably and performance.
Your personal Contribution matters because, when combined with other Listers such
as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept
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If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email
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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[Note that there are certain circumstances where you might still see a Contribution
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when using the List Browse feature, or when accessing List message via the Forum.
The system keys on the given email address and since most of these are
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Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
I SERIOUSLY think you're under-estimating the killing capabilities to the
unwary of a Yak52 here..
Nigel Willson
Uk aerobatic display pilot
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SD737@aol.com
Sent: 05 November 2008 00:09
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
The Yak-52 could be called a Cessna 152 as far as stall characteristics.
The thing is simple and gentle, but has the capability of performing
aggressive/advanced aerobatics.
You say Flat Inverted Spin???? Oh no... "Mr. Bill" HELP ME!!! Any
aircraft will enter a flat inverted spin if given the wrong inputs at the
right time, but... the plane will pretty much come out of this uncomfortable
maneuver on it's own if left alone.
Come on Ladies, The thing is a BASIC trainer period.
Simple/honest/forgiving flight characteristics.
Guys get themselves into "situations" with any aircraft from basic trainers
like Cessna 152's to high performance Lancair's to turbine aircraft.
CJ or Yak, they're both BASIC very SIMPLE aircraft to operate and if you
think otherwise then fly the thing within YOUR limitations and give it the
respect that YOU need to give it to operate the thing.
_____
Plan your next getaway with
AOL771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav0
0000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
For those that wish to see the entire article including the figures and
tables referred to, see attached.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
This is very interesting. Is it possible to get the full text somehow,
somewhere ? Willing to pay for it!
And if I read it well, there=92s a strong argument against closing the
aileron gaps in order to improve the roll rate ?
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: woensdag 5 november 2008 4:26
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
Here's an article that some may not have read concerning spins in the
Yak 52. The last two sentences of the Introduction are of the utmost
importance.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Budd Davisson
To: Yak List
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
I have probably as much inside/outside flat spin experience as most
and the
first time in the 52 52 surprised me with the higher than amount of
force it
took to get the stick out of the corner. Nothing dangerous, once you
know
it's there, but certainly "different." I was told it's centrifugal
force
working on the counterweights. Is there any truth to that?
bd
On 11/4/08 7:17 PM, "barryhancock" <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
wrote:
> <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
>
> I don't know how this ended up in this thread, but I have to
respond.
>
> The Yak-52 IS a straightforward aircraft, but it does have some
unusual
> characteristics. Upright flat the stick is "pinned" in the corner
and takes
> considerable force to get it out. A couple of very high time
pilots have
> been killed in the -52 because they didn't understand the spin
characteristics
> and/or recovery techniques.
>
> I'm not trying to scare people, quite the contrary. It is a great
aircraft
> for it's purpose and is very predictable once you are familiar
with it's
> characteristics. BUT to say you go out and fly a -52 within your
limits as
> the end of the discussion neglects getting into situations your
unaccustomed
> to at an inopportune moment. At those times it's training, type
specific
> training, that could save your life.
>
> Go out and get full spin training in the aircraft. It will make
you a more
> confident and capable pilot, and it's fun!
>
> Barry (I sell CJ's, but have many hours in Yaks and think they're
great too)
> Hancock
>
> --------
> Barry Hancock
> Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
> www.worldwidewarbirds.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212360#212360
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the
Annual link Free
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List
nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
========================<
; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
Unwary and untrained.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Nigel Willson
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
I SERIOUSLY think you=92re under-estimating the killing capabilities
to the unwary of a Yak52 here=85.
Nigel Willson
Uk aerobatic display pilot
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SD737@aol.com
Sent: 05 November 2008 00:09
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
The Yak-52 could be called a Cessna 152 as far as stall
characteristics. The thing is simple and gentle, but has the
capability of performing aggressive/advanced aerobatics.
You say Flat Inverted Spin???? Oh no... "Mr. Bill" HELP ME!!! Any
aircraft will enter a flat inverted spin if given the wrong inputs at
the right time, but... the plane will pretty much come out of this
uncomfortable maneuver on it's own if left alone.
Come on Ladies, The thing is a BASIC trainer period.
Simple/honest/forgiving flight characteristics.
Guys get themselves into "situations" with any aircraft from basic
trainers like Cessna 152's to high performance Lancair's to turbine
aircraft.
CJ or Yak, they're both BASIC very SIMPLE aircraft to operate and if
you think otherwise then fly the thing within YOUR limitations and give
it the respect that YOU need to give it to operate the thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Plan your next getaway with
AOL771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcnt
ustrav00000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Y
ak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dennis Saverese issue on Yak 18T delivery (bad list reply) |
frenchsukhoi wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I am Rmi DUBOIS director of Frenchsukhoi company. I'm dealing with eastern country
and I have also problems with Liutauras. I know the position of Dennis because
I'm in the same...between my customers and Liutauras.
> Just to make it simple: I started 5 court case against Liutauras this month.
> We invested over 100 000 in Anabaras company for deposits and we didn't see nothing.
Dennis, if you see my post, you can contact me on my email: remi(at)frenchsukhoi.fr
> Rmi.
I hope when you return your money from Liutauras you will be able to
return your dept 1130 euro to Konstantin Shluinskij for Yak-50 to you.
(Contract, 2004. 10. 30 signiture of Nicolas DUMON)
Aleksej Dzygalo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212467#212467
Message 5
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Dennis-like you I sell 52s.But it really is misleading to say that a 52
is simple and forgiving,since in some spins it certainly is not!
A 52 WILL allways recover from a spin,BUT it really does need good
instruction for a pilot to be sure of recovery from a developed flat
spin,and it is not that unusual for this to occur from a mis-handled
stall-turn.
The 52 is a great plane and an excellent aerobatic one at that.But it is
only safe in aerobatics IF the pilot has had correct instruction from
someone who really knows the type.
I have seen the consequences when this training has not been done.
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 6
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Richard,
I don't believe at anytime I said that it was simple and forgiving
because I too do NOT believe it is "simple and forgiving" in certain
spin situations. We are clearly on the same page and I echo your
insight. Once again, proper training is paramount.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Goode
To: YAK USA LIST
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Yak-List: 52
Dennis-like you I sell 52s.But it really is misleading to say that a
52 is simple and forgiving,since in some spins it certainly is not!
A 52 WILL allways recover from a spin,BUT it really does need good
instruction for a pilot to be sure of recovery from a developed flat
spin,and it is not that unusual for this to occur from a mis-handled
stall-turn.
The 52 is a great plane and an excellent aerobatic one at that.But it
is only safe in aerobatics IF the pilot has had correct instruction from
someone who really knows the type.
I have seen the consequences when this training has not been done.
Richard
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
Great! Thanks, Dennis !
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: woensdag 5 november 2008 12:36
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
For those that wish to see the entire article including the figures and
tables referred to, see attached.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
This is very interesting. Is it possible to get the full text somehow,
somewhere ? Willing to pay for it!
And if I read it well, there's a strong argument against closing the aileron
gaps in order to improve the roll rate ?
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: woensdag 5 november 2008 4:26
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
Here's an article that some may not have read concerning spins in the Yak
52. The last two sentences of the Introduction are of the utmost
importance.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Budd Davisson <mailto:buddairbum@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
I have probably as much inside/outside flat spin experience as most and the
first time in the 52 52 surprised me with the higher than amount of force it
took to get the stick out of the corner. Nothing dangerous, once you know
it's there, but certainly "different." I was told it's centrifugal force
working on the counterweights. Is there any truth to that?
bd
On 11/4/08 7:17 PM, "barryhancock" <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com> wrote:
> <bhancock@worldwidewarbirds.com>
>
> I don't know how this ended up in this thread, but I have to respond.
>
> The Yak-52 IS a straightforward aircraft, but it does have some unusual
> characteristics. Upright flat the stick is "pinned" in the corner and
takes
> considerable force to get it out. A couple of very high time pilots have
> been killed in the -52 because they didn't understand the spin
characteristics
> and/or recovery techniques.
>
> I'm not trying to scare people, quite the contrary. It is a great
aircraft
> for it's purpose and is very predictable once you are familiar with it's
> characteristics. BUT to say you go out and fly a -52 within your limits
as
> the end of the discussion neglects getting into situations your
unaccustomed
> to at an inopportune moment. At those times it's training, type specific
> training, that could save your life.
>
> Go out and get full spin training in the aircraft. It will make you a
more
> confident and capable pilot, and it's fun!
>
> Barry (I sell CJ's, but have many hours in Yaks and think they're great
too)
> Hancock
>
> --------
> Barry Hancock
> Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
> www.worldwidewarbirds.com
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212360#212360
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> nbsp; -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link
Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics====
===================<; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_=============
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navig
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Message 8
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The Press Regulating Valve on my CJ is only "hissing" when pressure
gets to 45 ATM and doesn't "pop" smartly. it allows overpressure on a
long flight or when serviced with a Scuba bottle. I've had the
spring/piston combo removed and cleaned, reinstalled and then adjusted
the PRV with the same results. Sound like it needs a new spring/piston?
Next question: Are the Yak and CJ PRV innards identical? Last time
I checked Doug did not have the parts but Jill does.....neither is sure
they are interchangeable.
Also, can just the rubber tip on the piston be replaced without
having to get the whole brass/rubber combo?
Thanks.
Jim Shanks
shankeroid@verizon.net
Message 9
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Jim,
I have been told that they should be changed in pairs if you are goinf from
a 52 into a CJ or visa versa. In my stock I do have the brass valve but no
springs at this time, I also have the complete pop off valve factory new for
$85.00.
Doug
On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:23 AM, Jim Shanks <shankeroid@verizon.net> wrote:
> The Press Regulating Valve on my CJ is only "hissing" when pressure
> gets to 45 ATM and doesn't "pop" smartly. it allows overpressure on a long
> flight or when serviced with a Scuba bottle. I've had the spring/piston
> combo removed and cleaned, reinstalled and then adjusted the PRV with the
> same results. Sound like it needs a new spring/piston?
> Next question: Are the Yak and CJ PRV innards identical? Last time I
> checked Doug did not have the parts but Jill does.....neither is sure they
> are interchangeable.
> Also, can just the rubber tip on the piston be replaced without having
> to get the whole brass/rubber combo?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim Shanks
> shankeroid@verizon.net
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Yak Fuel Gauge |
Chris, If you find a second unit, please let me know as I have the s
ame problem. Thanks Cliff netmaster15@juno.com
<CKeating@peoplepc.com> wrote
:
Thanks for the responses. It looks like I've located one that one of ou
r members has. If not I'll try WLAC.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212363#212363
========================
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========================
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========================
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========================
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Message 11
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The reason it is "hissing" is because the break over pressure has been
reached. It's not really necessary for it to pop. As long as it
regulates the pressure properly by opening at the preset pressure, it
should be just fine. The real issue is at what point does it stop
"hissing" or at what pressure does it stop once the PRV opens? You can
adjust the pressure relief point by turning the "top hat" in or out and
then locking it back down with the jam nut.
If I am not mistaken someone on the list said the pistons were not
interchangeable. However, Jill does have replacement piston seals.
They will not last as long as an original piston seal will. It's the
durometer of the rubber in the new piston seal.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Shanks
To: Yak List
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 PRV
The Press Regulating Valve on my CJ is only "hissing" when
pressure gets to 45 ATM and doesn't "pop" smartly. it allows
overpressure on a long flight or when serviced with a Scuba bottle.
I've had the spring/piston combo removed and cleaned, reinstalled and
then adjusted the PRV with the same results. Sound like it needs a new
spring/piston?
Next question: Are the Yak and CJ PRV innards identical? Last
time I checked Doug did not have the parts but Jill does.....neither is
sure they are interchangeable.
Also, can just the rubber tip on the piston be replaced without
having to get the whole brass/rubber combo?
Thanks.
Jim Shanks
shankeroid@verizon.net
Message 12
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Guys I earlier wrote that the flat spin is the one maneuver that will ruin
your whole day without proper instruction and altitude and that still stand
s! In all fairness to the guys selling these aircraft-what I should have
added is that I've been flying the Yak 52 for 10 years now.-My prior flyi
ng experience was 1,300hrs flying straight and level in a 172. After a year
of getting familiar with the Yak I started flying-acro and of all the ma
neuvers I've screwed up (and I screw up a lot) especially the hammer head
-NEVER has the airplane shown any bad flight characteristics or gone more
than 1/4 turn before normal recovery. Possibly what I should have said is
that until you have proper training in flat spin recovery in the 52 you hav
e no idea how little to no control you have over the aircraft and as the in
structor is doing all the right things to save the bacon your saying to you
rself would I have done that for soooo long? =0A=0AThis has been my experie
nce =0ABill Wade =0AN4450Y=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: yak-list@ma
tronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 5, 2008 7:54:37 AM=0ASubject: Re: Y
ak-List: 52=0A=0A=0ARichard,=0AI don't believe at anytime I said-that it
was simple and forgiving because I too do-NOT-believe it is "simple and
forgiving" in certain spin situations.-- We are clearly on the same pa
ge and I echo your insight.- Once again, proper training is paramount.-
=0A-=0ADennis=0A-=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Richard Good
e =0ATo: YAK USA LIST =0ASent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:41 AM=0ASubje
ct: Yak-List: 52=0A=0ADennis-like you I sell 52s.But it really is misleadin
g to say that a 52 is simple and forgiving,since in some spins it certainly
is not!=0AA 52 WILL allways recover from a spin,BUT it really does need go
od instruction for a pilot to be sure of recovery from a developed flat spi
n,and it is not that unusual for this to occur from a mis-handled stall-tur
n.=0AThe 52 is a great plane and an excellent aerobatic one at that.But it
is only safe in aerobatics IF the pilot has had correct instruction from so
meone who really knows the type.=0AI have seen the consequences when this t
raining has not been done.=0ARichard=0A=0ARichard Goode Aerobatics=0ARhodds
Farm=0ALyonshall=0AHereford=0AHR5 3LW=0AUnited Kingdom=0A=0ATel:-- +44
(0) 1544 340120=0AFax:- +44 (0) 1544 340129=0Awww.russianaeros.com=0A=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com
/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
== =0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Yak Fuel Gauge |
If the Yak 52 has resistive sending units, why not just replace the Russian version
with an EI gauge? EI makes some nice stuff. There is also one made by CruzPro
that is interesting.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/cruzDigitalFuel.php
Craig
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212492#212492
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
Spinning in the Yak 52 ...
A few observations ... (but please do get proper type specific training in YOUR
Yak 52) :
1. It doesn't hurt to use 2 hands on the stick to recover from a "good" flat
spin. The Russians do it. (And indeed centrifugal force on the
counterweight is probably part of the force required ... IMHO).
2. A great way to enter a good flat spin is a modified stall turn
(hammerhead). I mean, this is the easiest way to consistently enter
into an intentional flat spin during training. So I guess if you are going
to fly stall turns it is probably a good idea to ask an instructor to show
you what a flat spin entry looks like ... even if you do not intend to fly
them in the future.
3. Nobody mentioned "unloading" the stick : once the spin has been
flattened it can be further (!!) accelerated by unloading the elevator a
small amount. Are we having FUN yet ?
4. Recovery from this intentional flat spin would work something like that :
opposite rudder, stick back (if you have unloaded), stick to the other
side and then forward. Recovery will be more consistent than going
straight to the "final" position.
5. Recovery will be faster (and easier) WITH power ON ... if you know
what you are doing. To recover from intentional (flat) spinning the
correct control will always work. In the Yak-52, they will work better
with power on. The wrong inputs will not recover from a spin.
The wrong inputs with power on will make the lack of recovery even
more certain.
6. As for the Inverted accelerated and Inverted flat spins, I find them
quite hard to maintain because of the centrifugal force under negative
g's. And remember out-spin aileron in an inverted spin means moving
the aileron control to the same side to that which the rudder is applied.
7 . What about the cross-over spin : entering an inverted spin from a stall
in level upright flight ?
Competition spins ? One turn, 1 and 1/4, 1 and 1/2 ... (Exits must be
vertical).
Or going straight from a one turn and a half upright spin into an
inverted spin, a potentially disconcerting and dangerous situation ...
This "change-over" spin is maybe the cause of a few fatal accident in
the Pitts Special.
Etc ... etc ...
So to state the obvious one last time :
Emergency and planned spin recovery techniques must be taught in a TYPE specific
manner with an Instructor experienced on TYPE.
Now, I must get my parachute checked ...
Cheers,
Etienne.
--------
http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/photos/profile.php?uid=84
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
I agree with the 152 assessment - it is designed to be stable and will
almost always recover if the pilot lets go and quits the control input
for stall/spin.
The 52 will not recover like this in developed spins. The 52 is
aerodynamically more unstable than the 152. It has to be flown out of
the spin. And, once the spin develops in certain situations the mass
of the fuel and the centrifugal force will not be overcome by the
control inputs. This is worse in the 52W and 52TW which carry more
fuel. This is why the 55 and the 52 have acro fuel limitations. This
is also part of the reason why the Sukhoi has the fuel mass centrally
located in the fuselage - to avoid the inertial problems inherent to
the 52.
I have not had a chance to read Dennis's article but will tonight - I
look forward to learning more about our planes.
The key as others have mentioned is to learn the characteristics that
lead to problems, get training and practice stalls / spins, upright,
inverted, flat, normal, accelerated and crossover. Then as pilot, the
developed spin problems will be recognized and avoided. The kind of
spins a few very good pilots have ridden to the ground.
Herb
On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:09 PM, SD737@aol.com wrote:
> The Yak-52 could be called a Cessna 152 as far as stall
> characteristics. The thing is simple and gentle, but has the
> capability of performing aggressive/advanced aerobatics.
>
> You say Flat Inverted Spin???? Oh no... "Mr. Bill" HELP ME!!!
> Any aircraft will enter a flat inverted spin if given the wrong
> inputs at the right time, but... the plane will pretty much come out
> of this uncomfortable maneuver on it's own if left alone.
>
> Come on Ladies, The thing is a BASIC trainer period. Simple/honest/
> forgiving flight characteristics.
>
> Guys get themselves into "situations" with any aircraft from basic
> trainers like Cessna 152's to high performance Lancair's to turbine
> aircraft.
>
> CJ or Yak, they're both BASIC very SIMPLE aircraft to operate and if
> you think otherwise then fly the thing within YOUR limitations and
> give it the respect that YOU need to give it to operate the thing.
>
>
> Plan your next getaway with AOL771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav00000001
> ">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dennis Saverese issue on Yak 18T delivery (bad list reply) |
It is email to me from blackmailer:
"Hello Aleksej,
If you keep this word on matronics I will post this for you:
-I will put a claim on the criminal court against you and constantin for maintenance
sabotage on this yak50. We found, on the yak 50 you sold, a cigar in the
fuel system that could occur a engine stop in flight.
Of course we have the report from an official lawyer with pictures.
So, think about it Aleksej and remove your post from matronics."
Who is bigger swindler?
[Wink]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212539#212539
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Jim,
Suggest you check the previous/recent posts on this very subject. It was covered
in detail and should answer your questions
Keith
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Jim,
The link below is a thread on this list that was on this very subject. It may help
you out.
Keith
700HS
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=49923
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
The article "Spins Unspun" that I posted was not mine, but belonged to
the Yak Pilots Association and was published in the Warbird Flyer, 3rd
Quarter of 2002. The original Warbird Flyer the article appeared in is
attached for anyone who wishes to read it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb Coussons
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
I agree with the 152 assessment - it is designed to be stable and will
almost always recover if the pilot lets go and quits the control input
for stall/spin.
The 52 will not recover like this in developed spins. The 52 is
aerodynamically more unstable than the 152. It has to be flown out of
the spin. And, once the spin develops in certain situations the mass of
the fuel and the centrifugal force will not be overcome by the control
inputs. This is worse in the 52W and 52TW which carry more fuel. This
is why the 55 and the 52 have acro fuel limitations. This is also part
of the reason why the Sukhoi has the fuel mass centrally located in the
fuselage - to avoid the inertial problems inherent to the 52.
I have not had a chance to read Dennis's article but will tonight - I
look forward to learning more about our planes.
The key as others have mentioned is to learn the characteristics that
lead to problems, get training and practice stalls / spins, upright,
inverted, flat, normal, accelerated and crossover. Then as pilot, the
developed spin problems will be recognized and avoided. The kind of
spins a few very good pilots have ridden to the ground.
Herb
On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:09 PM, SD737@aol.com wrote:
The Yak-52 could be called a Cessna 152 as far as stall
characteristics. The thing is simple and gentle, but has the
capability of performing aggressive/advanced aerobatics.
You say Flat Inverted Spin???? Oh no... "Mr. Bill" HELP ME!!!
Any aircraft will enter a flat inverted spin if given the wrong inputs
at the right time, but... the plane will pretty much come out of this
uncomfortable maneuver on it's own if left alone.
Come on Ladies, The thing is a BASIC trainer period.
Simple/honest/forgiving flight characteristics.
Guys get themselves into "situations" with any aircraft from basic
trainers like Cessna 152's to high performance Lancair's to turbine
aircraft.
CJ or Yak, they're both BASIC very SIMPLE aircraft to operate and if
you think otherwise then fly the thing within YOUR limitations and give
it the respect that YOU need to give it to operate the thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| Subject: | Calling Brian Lloyd ... |
Did you recently list a '65 Aztec (N15KY) for sale on TAP? If this is
the same Brian Lloyd and N15KY is still for sale, can you please
contact me off list? I'd like to know more about your airplane, if it
hasn't sold already. Thanks!
Thanks,
Scott Huff
scott.huff@aivia.aero
540-809-9334
Message 21
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Ok, I explained this poorly last time... Let me try again please. My
bad.
The piston diameter and length is identical between CJ and YAK, with the
exception of the YAK-52TW and MAYBE the 52W. Not sure about the 52W.
This means that the piston, the piece with the rubber on top.... Is
completely interchangable between CJ's and YAKS.
The spring used with the CJ has less turns with a larger diameter coil
wire. The YAK uses more turns with a slightly smaller diameter coil
wire in the spring itself. The overall LENGTHS of the two springs are
different and that is important.
It is possible to interchange springs and pistons, but I had some
unusual results when I did that and was unable to adjust the air
properly. I then discovered that the CAP... The part that you turn in
to adjust the pressure, (Top Hat, CAP, whatever it is called) is
different between the CJ and the YAK. That is why the springs are
different between the two as well.
I really did not explain this properly in my last posting and I
appologize for being too vague. Fact is, it took me going back to look
at the whole mess again to remember exactly what was going on.
So here we go... Hope this not too confusing.
1. The pistons are identical in both models.
2. The springs are not, as described above.
3. The part that screws down and adjusts the pressure is different
between the CJ and the YAK ... HOWEVER, the CJ part will screw right on
the YAK valve body AND vice versa.
The top hat, or screw on part...the part that adjusts the pressure has a
different overall LENGTH between the CJ and the YAK. If I remember
correctly the CJ Top Hat is SHORTER. Thus the SPRING is shorter too.
So, you can put in a new piston from either CJ or YAK and interchange
freely as long as you use the original spring.
If the original spring is worn out, or you suspect that, and you use the
new CJ spring , then you need to use a new CJ top hat and vice versa.
Springs rarely go bad.
Yes, you can replace just the rubber tip, but I have NEVER had it work
as well when I have tried that.
Mark Bitterlich
P.s. My valve only "hisses" as well. When it was brand spanking new it
would "pop", now it hisses. Still works though, but is very very
sensitive to adjustment.
P.p.s. Sorry for screwing this explanation up last time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ-6 PRV
The reason it is "hissing" is because the break over pressure has been
reached. It's not really necessary for it to pop. As long as it
regulates the pressure properly by opening at the preset pressure, it
should be just fine. The real issue is at what point does it stop
"hissing" or at what pressure does it stop once the PRV opens? You can
adjust the pressure relief point by turning the "top hat" in or out and
then locking it back down with the jam nut.
If I am not mistaken someone on the list said the pistons were not
interchangeable. However, Jill does have replacement piston seals.
They will not last as long as an original piston seal will. It's the
durometer of the rubber in the new piston seal.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Shanks <mailto:shankeroid@verizon.net>
To: Yak List <mailto:yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:23 AM
Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 PRV
The Press Regulating Valve on my CJ is only "hissing" when
pressure gets to 45 ATM and doesn't "pop" smartly. it allows
overpressure on a long flight or when serviced with a Scuba bottle.
I've had the spring/piston combo removed and cleaned, reinstalled and
then adjusted the PRV with the same results. Sound like it needs a new
spring/piston?
Next question: Are the Yak and CJ PRV innards identical?
Last time I checked Doug did not have the parts but Jill
does.....neither is sure they are interchangeable.
Also, can just the rubber tip on the piston be replaced
without having to get the whole brass/rubber combo?
Thanks.
Jim Shanks
shankeroid@verizon.net
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Re: Cockpit bulbs |
Are those for a CJ or Yak? Do you sell those led's or can you pass on the part
number.
(I'm looking to replace the gear bulbs in a -6a. FJ30v)
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Gear Indicator LED's |
Did anybody do this? Most of the links are dead. I don't quite get how this conversion
works. Ideas? Thanks in advance. Mike
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08 |
Once again, thanks a lot !
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: woensdag 5 november 2008 21:30
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
The article "Spins Unspun" that I posted was not mine, but belonged to the
Yak Pilots Association and was published in the Warbird Flyer, 3rd Quarter
of 2002. The original Warbird Flyer the article appeared in is attached for
anyone who wishes to read it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Herb Coussons <mailto:drc@wscare.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 11/03/08
I agree with the 152 assessment - it is designed to be stable and will
almost always recover if the pilot lets go and quits the control input for
stall/spin.
The 52 will not recover like this in developed spins. The 52 is
aerodynamically more unstable than the 152. It has to be flown out of the
spin. And, once the spin develops in certain situations the mass of the
fuel and the centrifugal force will not be overcome by the control inputs.
This is worse in the 52W and 52TW which carry more fuel. This is why the 55
and the 52 have acro fuel limitations. This is also part of the reason why
the Sukhoi has the fuel mass centrally located in the fuselage - to avoid
the inertial problems inherent to the 52.
I have not had a chance to read Dennis's article but will tonight - I look
forward to learning more about our planes.
The key as others have mentioned is to learn the characteristics that lead
to problems, get training and practice stalls / spins, upright, inverted,
flat, normal, accelerated and crossover. Then as pilot, the developed spin
problems will be recognized and avoided. The kind of spins a few very good
pilots have ridden to the ground.
Herb
On Nov 4, 2008, at 6:09 PM, SD737@aol.com wrote:
The Yak-52 could be called a Cessna 152 as far as stall characteristics.
The thing is simple and gentle, but has the capability of performing
aggressive/advanced aerobatics.
You say Flat Inverted Spin???? Oh no... "Mr. Bill" HELP ME!!! Any
aircraft will enter a flat inverted spin if given the wrong inputs at the
right time, but... the plane will pretty much come out of this uncomfortable
maneuver on it's own if left alone.
Come on Ladies, The thing is a BASIC trainer period.
Simple/honest/forgiving flight characteristics.
Guys get themselves into "situations" with any aircraft from basic trainers
like Cessna 152's to high performance Lancair's to turbine aircraft.
CJ or Yak, they're both BASIC very SIMPLE aircraft to operate and if you
think otherwise then fly the thing within YOUR limitations and give it the
respect that YOU need to give it to operate the thing.
_____
Plan your next getaway with
AOL771803/aol?redir=http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?ncid=emlcntustrav0
0000001">Check out Today's Hot 5 Travel Deals!
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
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