Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:11 AM - Away Message (Tyson V. Rininger)
2. 01:58 AM - Re: Re: Missing Man Formation (Jan Mevis)
3. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 12:58 PM - brake differential valve (Jon Boede)
5. 01:26 PM - Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (Mozam)
6. 01:33 PM - Dynon EFIS installation questons (Mozam)
7. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 05:08 PM - Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (Mozam)
10. 05:53 PM - Re: Missing Man Formation (Craig Winkelmann)
11. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Missing Man Formation (KingCJ6@AOL.COM)
13. 07:55 PM - 15/600-6 NANCHANG FRONT WHEEL AND TIRE ASSEMBLES AVAILABLE (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
14. 08:46 PM - dsc_1427 (Chris Wise)
Message 1
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Thanks for the note!
I'll be out of the country, returning on the 22nd. Email access will most likely
be sporadic, however I will do my best to get back to you as soon as possible.
Many thanks,
Tyson
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Man Formation |
Please stop. It has been enough.
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Geipel
Sent: vrijdag 21 november 2008 4:42
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
Dale,
I've read his stuff. My time in the military doesn't count unless I here
bullets zipping by my ears.
I still will talk about flying, I still will tell and listen to anything
about flying and Yaks, and I would still fly when and where I choose. Mark
gave me that freedom. I don't lose sleep over any of this.
Bill
Have you flown the TW yet?
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Matuska [mailto:dale@frii.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
HI Bill
Before you meet this guy you might want to read what he has to say to me off
line.
Start at the bottom ( first message ) and read up the list.
Floyd
>
>
> Are you a vet?
>
> Have you fought in any wars? When was the last time you heard a round
> from the bad guy go zipping by your ears?
>
> Do you care how some Vet's feel about this issue or is your loyalty to
> them only lip service and otherwise, please shut up I do not want to
> hear it except on Veterans Day, and even then only in a parade?
>
> Matt Dralle owns this list server. Not you. Your freedom here is not
> promised by being a member of this country, but by the money that is
> raised to support the hardware on this system. It is not yours, nor was
> it given to you. It is a privilege to use and not your RIGHT to use.
> Your freedom of speech is not an issue on this list server. You do not
> have the right to scream FIRE FIRE FIRE in a theatre no more than you
> have the right to say anything you feel like here.
>
> I know what I am saying and have defended YOUR right to say it directly
> for over 38 years now. No, I am not Hitler.
>
> Please don't direct profanity towards me. If you insist on doing so,
> please have the courage to do so to my face. Otherwise, I deem you a
> coward who's courage comes directly in proportion to the distance he is
> away from the person being talked to.
>
> Thank you for your point of view.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dale Matuska [mailto:hdinamic@qwestoffice.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 16:31
> To: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
>
> Raise hate and discontent ?
>
> I fly in the RPA to honor the generations of military pilots that
> protected my freedom and those around the world.
>
> I fly in the RPA to keep the tradition alive for future generation to
> see.
>
> I fly at the Veterans events to honor our veterans and the service to
> this country so they know we care.
>
> I don't fly for Matt Dralle who in charge of "your" freedoms. No one
> owns my freedom of speech.
>
> My god man have you stopped to think about what your saying.
>
> When we toppled Hitler in WW2 " someone was angry "
>
> So What. Life is what you make it. Don't shit in your food pan.
>
> Enjoy the ride.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> To: <hdinamic@qwest.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:52 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
>
>
> It is related to what I referred to in my letter because all are topics
> that raise hate and discontent and can never be solved or answered to
> the satisfaction of everyone. Someone ALWAYS ends up angry.
>
> The Missing Man Formation topic falls into that same category.
>
> Some think it is just fine for civilians to be flying for their buddies.
> Others think it should be reserved for the military. Regardless of who
> is right or who is wrong, bringing it up is a bad idea because feelings
> about it are strongly held.
>
> This is why Matt Dralle suggested it might not be a good topic for the
> YAK list.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:53 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
>
>
> Interesting Mark.
>
> I don't see how this is related to rock and roll , who the hell is
> running for president, my mother or what beer I drink. It looked to me
> like formation flying and I was in a Yak. I take exception to your
> statement as not being a related subject. Have a nice Veterans Day!!
>
>
> Dale
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215018#215018
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
A legitimate question - if this were a check ride for a FAST Wing card
with an IP in the back seat of #2, would the IP pass the wing candidate?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
Mark,
I was intending to stay out of this one but I have to say that you are
absolutely correct. As you noted the photo is a micro-second image
that
generally could not tell the whole story. In this case however I
believe it
does, whether it is a take-off or landing situation.
It is obviously a take-off and is clearly unsafe since #2 is airborne
before
the lead with all the difficulties and potential dangers you have
noted.
Very bad form.
If it were a landing situation it would be far worse than bad form and
I
would remind everyone of the recent P51 disaster at Oshkosh.
Some may say this is different as the Mustangs were not in formation
but the
photo of the CJ's (for that micro second at least) shows two aircraft
in
close proximity but NOT in controlled formation.
In a formation take-off formation flight begins when lead nods his
head and
releases the brakes.
The wingman's job from that moment is; 1. Maintain wing tip
clearance in
the event that lead has to abort. 2. Maintain position during the
take-off
roll with judicious use of power to lift off after the lead. 3. Use
leads
cue for gear (and flap if used) retraction. 4. Maintain position.
The formation landing begins and ends with #4 above. Gear and flap
extension
of course on the leads signal and maintain adequate wingtip clearance.
Other than that the mission is to fly formation and maintain the
correct
position. Touchdown will be before the lead You will have done this
without looking at the runway. That is the leads job.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
Point,
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> Doc, I have flown a good deal of dissimilar aircraft formation with
me
> being in the aircraft with more performance and a much shorter
take-off
> roll than the other guy. That said, I have made the mistake you are
> talking about. In this case, a formation take-off with me in a
YAK-50
> and the other fellow flying lead in a souped up Cessna 180. I am
off
> the deck long before he is, and what you are saying is exactly what
> happened. I am looking down on lead. He is partially obscured by
the
> wing. I have to pull to keep from over-taking him. I slow to near
> stall speed. It was easy to pick up a little drift, since there was
a
> cross-wind situation. I am looking at an airplane on the deck that
is
> not flying, yet I am in the air and have "keeping it flying" issues
> happening. It was bad ju-ju. Lead, a retired USMC C-130 pilot and
> ex-EA-6B ECMO chewed my ass and rightly so. He was right, I was
wrong,
> it was a stupid thing to do. Of course in this case a freeze frame
> picture is hard to judge. The situation for THEM might have been
just
> milliseconds. I have no idea. However, as a point of discussion
for
> formation flying between two aircraft, there is no question that it
is a
> bad idea to have your wingman rotate and start flying before lead.
I
> say this as just a regular ole Pilot who does not have a FAST card
from
> the RPA, and could of course be wrong.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp
MD
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 13:47
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
>
> Mike,
> You are absolutely correct. What I wrote was poorly worded for
brevity.
> No excuse.
> I'm AF (ANG).
> During the brief, Motherhood will have covered when and if the
element
> will abort together. Generally that is if the element is mission
> critical for training and the abort occurs leaving the chocks, in
EOR,
> or as the flight starts TO roll. Everything is talked about on the
radio
> if possible, but maybe not. If lead breaks one third, halfway down
the
> runway, at rotation or at some point past loss of nose wheel
steering, 2
> is going flying to get out of lead's way. In the TO roll if two
still
> had nose wheel steering, it is a judgment call. Nothing is embedded
in
> concrete. We'll talk about it in the debrief. You are correct, the
last
> thing we need is for two a/c to be in the barrier at the same time.
> Well since we don't have hooks and barriers, that one was a moot
point.
> We are talking about round motors and it is a judgment call but me
> personally, if I'm two and lead has a bad day, aborts, then I'm
going
> flying any way. We do this for fun and there is nothing mission
critical
> in what we do.
> The point with the two pictures of the YAKs and the CJ's doing
formation
> T.O.s was that Two is now the flight lead. He rotated and went
flying
> before lead. For two now to stay in position with lead, he/she is
going
> to have to pull back on the power, look down at lead, and possibly
> unintentionally roll into him while trying to maintain station. The
> other risk is since lead is at Vrot not quite flying with two now
flying
> two can pull too much power and stall while trying to stay in
position.
> Those were the safety issue I was trying to point out. Two at that
point
> needs to become lead and fly his jet.
> Lead becomes two and joins on the new accidental flight lead. They
can
> work it out on departure, in the area or in debrief.
> Talon, you are absolutely correct a picture is what is happening at
that
> nanosecond in time. But it is worth a 1000 words when it shows
something
> of interest. The "I fly with this lead all the time and we do it
this
> way"
> because we are comfortable with each other is not a warm fuzzy for
me
> that is. It is an invitation for bent metal and heartache. Sorry, I
may
> be seeing it all wrong and maybe it is me that is missing the point
> here. But, I just had my DO in the office a few minutes ago and
showed
> him the pictures. His reaction was Holly SHIT! Nuff said does not
matter
> how big the @#$%^& runway is. We can go to the bar, drink beer, pat
each
> other on the ass, scratch each other's backs and this was still not
> recognized as poor technique and not entirely safe. Two is trying to
fly
> form on lead who is still on the ground.
> Here are two nanosecond shots of it being done right. Well the #2
> Scooter is just a little bit sucked since we are splitting hairs.
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N642K
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:39 AM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
>
>
> Sorry Doc, I gotta disagree BIG time with this statement;
>
> If lead aborts, 2 aborts. The flight usually will abort as an
element
> unless lead aborts at rotation
>
> If lead aborts, the worse thing -2 can do is abort as well. We
agree
> that near rotation -2 goes flying. My point is -2 ALWAYS goes
flying.
> Near rotation is too subjective. I dont want my wingman guessing
about
> our speed and then making a decision. That takes too long. Make it
> easy for him. If I abort after we apply takeoff power, you go
flying.
>
> Say lead aborts. The first thing that happens is -2 blows past
him/her.
> Thats for a high or slow speed abort! The last thing you expect from
the
> lead is idle power and brakes. You simply cannot react quickly
enough.
> Now lead not only has to deal with whatever issue caused the abort
but
> now he/she has to figure out where -2 is.
>
> Now I'm only aborting for something catastrophic, i.e., the engine
> coming apart or a major gear/directional control issue. The best
thing
> -2 can do is go flying and get off my runway, the same thing I'll do
if
> he calls aborting as my wingman.
>
> I don't know you. But your call sign says Air Force. In the Navy we
had
> a agreement in ALL formation take offs -NO SYMPATHETIC ABORTS! Its
too
> easy to turn a simple indicator problem into an ugly aircraft pile
near
> the end of the runway.
>
> Mike
>
> Looking forward to your response.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215332#215332
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | brake differential valve |
Where is the left/right brake distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e. how
does one get to it)?
Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums (but not
the pucks=2C which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems to have a
left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after landing (although
it has some=2C but not much).
I find this to be very odd. Pressure tests good at both brake line outlets
at the wheels=2C about 150psi. I don't hear any hissing or see any air lo
ss from holding the brake handle.
How does one tell if the distributor valve is acting whacky?
Thanks=2C
Jon
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
Hi Dennis,
As a FAST Check Pilot I'll take a stab at your question.
IMHO, the answer is, "It depends".
Since all we have is a single photo that shows 1/100 of a second of the takeoff,
I think we need to know other info, such as:
-Did Lead lift off at 110 mph? If so, I doubt many wingman would still be on the
ground with him.
-Did Lead lift off and then settle back on the runway (just as the photo was shot)?
-Is #2 really overlapping wings like the photo looks? Or, is it just an illusion
caused by the angle the photo is taken and he really had normal wingtip clearance?
I could think of a hundred more questions, but I think you get my point. One single
photo, that leaves many questions unanswered, cannot determine whether you
pass your check or not.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215587#215587
Message 6
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS installation questons |
Guys/gals,
I am installing a Dynon D10A EFIS in my Yak. I know many of you have already done
this, so may I ask for some help with the following:
-where did you put the remote compass?
-if you put it in the tail, how did you route the wiring from the cockpit area
back thru the fuselage all the way to the tail?
-where did you put the OAT sensor?
-any other advice?
THANKS,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215588#215588
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
With all due respect, base your decision on what you see in the picture
which is the only known fact you have. What is obvious regardless of
what nanosecond it was taken, is 2 is off the ground before lead. That
is all we know for certain.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mozam
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
Hi Dennis,
As a FAST Check Pilot I'll take a stab at your question.
IMHO, the answer is, "It depends".
Since all we have is a single photo that shows 1/100 of a second of
the takeoff, I think we need to know other info, such as:
-Did Lead lift off at 110 mph? If so, I doubt many wingman would
still be on the ground with him.
-Did Lead lift off and then settle back on the runway (just as the
photo was shot)?
-Is #2 really overlapping wings like the photo looks? Or, is it just
an illusion caused by the angle the photo is taken and he really had
normal wingtip clearance?
I could think of a hundred more questions, but I think you get my
point. One single photo, that leaves many questions unanswered, cannot
determine whether you pass your check or not.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215587#215587
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
In a message dated 11/21/2008 6:34:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
I'd have to say the same as Mozam and add one or two thoughts. I happen to
be little familiar with what happened up there in OSH. That particular photo
is of a takeoff not a landing. Both aircraft have their flap up, SOP for
CJ-6s. Also all landings performed during the OSH show were single ship, no
element landings were briefed for any of the sorties flown and none were made
during the show.
This element takeoff was on rwy 9. AAMOF all takeoffs at OSH were done on
Rwy 9 or 27. Rwy 9/27 is 150' wide. Using a standard wingspan for the CJ,
that leave about 44' between wing tips. A very comfortable margin.
This element during all our show performances, was toward the back of the
pack. Anyone who has been there know that turbulence from the proceeding
aircraft is a reality though out your entire takeoff. It is not uncommon to get
a
premature lift off because of it. I believe that is pretty evident even in
this photo because the lead aircraft, has a slight bank while one wheel is
still on the ground. Now just because his wing is up does not mean he is
turning toward 2. You even can just discern he is imputing a little right rudder.
It just that his wing is up. More evidence of turbulence.
To me its just a picture. If any thing it looks like #2 is sucked at that
point. But was he sucked during the earlier part of the TO? We don't know.
Was he sucked later? It does not really matter because once airborne, 2 will
move to the bearing line anyway.
Photographs are notorious for being unable to show depth perception. The
only way a photo could show proper spacing between two aircraft is if the photo
were taken dead abeam (at 90 degrees). Even than you could not determined
wing tip clearance.
To compare us to F-16 jocks is a little unfair. F-16s have extremely high
wing loadings and most likely do not bobble (if at all) around much though the
turbulence. I am pretty sure Mozam will concur that the way our airplanes
reacted to turbulence compared to the F-16 is like a thistle in a brisk wind.
My question is would you have wanted one of your entire flight checks based
on a nanosecond photo by an examiner? Of course not. As an examiner you
make your judgement on the entire skill of the individual. That picture says
nothing of the person total skill level. Nothing at all. Shit happens.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
With all due respect, base your decision on what you see in the picture
which is the only known fact you have. What is obvious regardless of what
nanosecond it was taken, is 2 is off the ground before lead. That is all we know
for certain.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: _Mozam_ (mailto:sdalton@hughes.net)
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
(mailto:sdalton@hughes.net) >
Hi Dennis,
As a FAST Check Pilot I'll take a stab at your question.
IMHO, the answer is, "It depends".
Since all we have is a single photo that shows 1/100 of a second of the
takeoff, I think we need to know other info, such as:
-Did Lead lift off at 110 mph? If so, I doubt many wingman would still be
on the ground with him.
-Did Lead lift off and then settle back on the runway (just as the photo was
shot)?
-Is #2 really overlapping wings like the photo looks? Or, is it just an
illusion caused by the angle the photo is taken and he really had normal wingtip
clearance?
I could think of a hundred more questions, but I think you get my point.
One single photo, that leaves many questions unanswered, cannot determine
whether you pass your check or not.
Cheers,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
_http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215587#215587_
(http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215587#215587)
http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;
-Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics======================
=<; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_=============
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
Dennis,
With all due respect to you as well:
Would you be willing to take your next checkride based solely on one single photo
of your flight? And you don't get to pick the photographer or the photo!
I sense there is some underlying angst with this photo (or the individuals involved?),
but have no clue what it is.
If the worst thing #2 does is lift off 1/10 of a second before Lead, who delayed
his liftoff until almost 100 mph, I would have a hard time faulting the guy.
I'm not saying that was the case in the photo - just that it is one possibility.
I just can't slam a guy based on this one single photo.
Why are some of you guys so spooled up about this photo - I just don't get it.
-Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215611#215611
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Man Formation |
BUT...Do you put MMO in the oil tank before or after you fly the MM formation?
And, oh, do you wear flight suits when flying the MM or not? [Rolling Eyes]
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG |
I do understand yours and Pappy's position. No more from me on the
subject.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mozam
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 7:08 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Emailing: DSC_1427-A[1].JPG
Dennis,
With all due respect to you as well:
Would you be willing to take your next checkride based solely on one
single photo of your flight? And you don't get to pick the photographer
or the photo!
I sense there is some underlying angst with this photo (or the
individuals involved?), but have no clue what it is.
If the worst thing #2 does is lift off 1/10 of a second before Lead,
who delayed his liftoff until almost 100 mph, I would have a hard time
faulting the guy. I'm not saying that was the case in the photo - just
that it is one possibility. I just can't slam a guy based on this one
single photo.
Why are some of you guys so spooled up about this photo - I just don't
get it.
-Steve
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Man Formation |
OK, suppose I just filled up with MoGas, and even though I wiped my
MMO-soaked hand on my flight suit during TO roll as lead, the throttle momentarily
slipped out of my hand, causing -2 to lift off slightly before me during a
Missing Man flight for a deceased non-military pilot. Should I have been wearing
a helmet?
Dave
In a message dated 11/21/2008 5:54:00 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
capav8r@gmail.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
BUT...Do you put MMO in the oil tank before or after you fly the MM
formation? And, oh, do you wear flight suits when flying the MM or not? [Rolling
Eyes]
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| Subject: | 15/600-6 NANCHANG FRONT WHEEL AND TIRE ASSEMBLES AVAILABLE |
We have two (2) 15/600-6 front wheel and tire assembles available for
the Nanchang, complete and?ready to install.
?
Please see our website store
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Or contact me off list.
Thanks,
Gary 'Bunndini'
Bunn
Vector Warbirds USA
"I will fly in the greatness of God as the
marsh-hen flies, ?
In the freedom that fills all the space 'twixt' the marsh
and the skies"
Sidney Lainer - The Marshes of Glynn
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Hi, Guys,
How about you all give this formation take off / landing whatever a
miss.
It looked good but the subject has now been flogged to the extent of
boring.
Lets get on to some new subjects, things about Chinese rice cutters and
yaks.
info that helps us all, of which there is a lot of good darned stuff on
this site.
Cheers,
Chris Wise.
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