Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:31 AM - Value of the List... (Matt Dralle)
1. 03:33 AM - Re: YAK Cross country underway (Bill1200)
2. 07:36 AM - Re: fuel tanks and HS6 for sale. (doug sapp)
3. 08:24 AM - My Apologies... (Tyson V. Rininger)
4. 08:33 AM - Rudder pedal and fuel tank update (Barry Hancock)
5. 08:39 AM - Re: YAK Cross country underway (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Missing Man Formation (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 08:56 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 09:07 AM - Re: brake differential valve (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
9. 09:41 AM - Mr. Geipel (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 10:06 AM - Re: Mr. Geipel (Matt Dralle)
11. 10:21 AM - Re: brake differential valve (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 10:28 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons (Mozam)
13. 10:49 AM - Re: brake differential valve (Jon Boede)
14. 11:12 AM - Re: brake differential valve (doug sapp)
15. 11:12 AM - Re: fuel tanks and HS6 for sale. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
16. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons (Genzlinger, Reade)
18. 03:04 PM - Re: YAK Cross country underway (FLYBOY886@aol.com)
19. 04:41 PM - YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! (Jetj01@aol.com)
20. 04:55 PM - FW: Those Sneaky Marines !! (Steven A Johnson)
21. 05:06 PM - Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! (A. Dennis Savarese)
22. 05:36 PM - Re: YAK Cross country underway (Bill1200)
23. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons (Yak52w@aol.com)
24. 06:11 PM - Re: Magneto failure (Frank Stelwagon)
25. 07:55 PM - Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! (Jetj01@aol.com)
26. 09:01 PM - Re: brake differential valve (nc69666@aol.com)
27. 09:15 PM - Re: brake differential valve (N642K)
28. 09:56 PM - Re: Re: brake differential valve (nc69666@aol.com)
29. 09:57 PM - Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! (Jim)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Value of the List... |
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have
written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30
worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a
subscription to some lame magazine or even just a single dinner out. Isn't the
List worth at least that much to you?
Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support the
Lists?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far
during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively
through YOUR generosity!!
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: YAK Cross country underway |
Yep, fully understand the no oxygen thing. The fire dept is a GREAT idea, thanks!!!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216023#216023
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: fuel tanks and HS6 for sale. |
Pappy,
Your engine is a "since NEW" engine? If yes it should be painted a very
light sky blue in color. or is is a "since overhaul" engine, which is a dark
blue or dark grey in color. As you know it's all about time so there is a
big difference in value. If your engine has a total time of 300 hours then
your saying that it is 300 hours since new. If it is 300 hours since 1st
overhaul then it has 300 to the top and approx. 900 on the bottom, 2nd over
haul add 600 hours, third over haul add 1200 hours to both those numbers.
Doug
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM, <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> Troops,
>
> Been cleaning out my hangar for our bi-annual Thanksgiving bash with the
> in-laws. The 40+ of us eat the meal in my hangar.
>
> I've had two CJ-6 fuel tanks sitting under a table off the floor since
> putting Gill's bladder tanks in a couple years ago. They are in very good
> shape and have about 2,000 hours total time. Fuel level senders are there
> also.
>
> I am going to sell my HS-6 (260 hp) engine also. Total time under 300
> hours.
>
> Contact me off list for details.
>
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *One site has it all.* Your email accounts, your social networks, and the
> things youolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com today!
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 3
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Hi guys,
Sorry for the barrage of "Away Messages". Didn't realize they would be
forwarded to the entire list. But for what it was worth, the Mexican
Riviera cruise was pretty cool. I highly recommend the getaway!
In the meantime, I need to additionally apologize for not being so
speedy on the Oshkosh Nanchang Gathering pics. There have been some
wonderful changes to my personal life that have caused me to be a tad
bit busier than usual and I simply haven't had time to edit the photos.
However, some images have been edited and posted if you haven't seen
them already...
Photoflight, Gathering and Transit:
http://www.tvrphotography.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=220
Oshkosh in general:
http://www.tvrphotography.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=221
And in case you missed them, Pacific Flyer Magazine showcased the
two-ship flight of Terry Calloway and Alex Land as the cover for the
Oshkosh edition. Also, PilotMag Magazine set aside a full-page
highlighting the photoflight of Alex "Gabby" Land, Terry "Pumper"
Calloway, Ron "Little Wood" Lee and Craig Ekberg. Many thanks goes to
photoship pilot, Keith "Flipper" Harbour and lookout pilot, Paul
"Batman" Batliner.
My intentions are to still create a book of the gathering though I
haven't a clue as to when completion should be expected. But ya'll will
be the first to know.
All the best,
Tyson
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rudder pedal and fuel tank update |
Gang,
Just in time for Christmas...;)
We have the prototype rudder pedal bracket mod for the Yak-52/50 done and
will be installed this week. Flight testing next week.
Also, our first production set of extended range fuel tanks for the CJ-6
are installed. Flight testing should take place in mid-December.
If you are interested in either of these upgrades, please contact me off
list.
Regards,
Barry
--
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
office (909) 606-4444
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | YAK Cross country underway |
Besides the other good suggestions about not putting anything in the
tanks except compressed air or nitrogen, you also might want to consider
propping the engine. It is not any more dangerous than propping any
other aircraft, so if you can not do it yourself, you can maybe get
someone else to help you. In any case, it takes two people. Yes, it is
indeed possible to do it with just one person, but the danger level
increases proportionately and the procedure is different.
The very most important thing to remember here is that with no air, you
also have no brakes. That means the aircraft must.....REPEAT.... MUST
be tied down. I would recommend a 3 point tie-down AND three sets of
chocks. One man is in the aircraft, that should probably be yourself.
Pull the prop through a lot before getting ready to start. 20 blades is
not too much in cold weather. It sure would be nice if you could
pre-heat it!
Open the air tank valve and hit the starter button enough times to get
all... I mean ALL of the air out of the system. Or, use your flaps
going up and down to bleed the air out. Just make sure it is totally
out of air. TOTALLY.
Prime the engine... In dead cold weather as in REAL cold, 10 shots of
prime is NOT too much. Leave the prime handle pulled all the way OUT,
ready to SHOVE IN if the engine catches and then starts to die. With
the mags OFF, carefully pull the prop through at least another 5-8
blades. Remember that with the prime lever turned to engine prime, that
alone causes the mixture to be more rich than normal.
Set up everything for a normal start.
When the man outside gets ready to spin the prop by hand, push in the
starter button and you should hear a BUZZ from the boost transformer.
If the engine catches and starts, do the normal flip of the mags to both
on, and be ready to add more prime. At the same time, you CAN also pump
the throttle a LITTLE... But much better to just use the prime. Note:
It is much easier to get a fire with a lot of throttle movement and a
backfire.
Usually most airports will have someone who is experienced about
propping engines... You just have to let them know that yours turns the
"other way". It will start easier than a lot of other opposed engines
because of the low compression ratio.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill1200
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 3:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: YAK Cross country underway
Well things were going pretty good. Got out of Vermont in brutal cold.
Beat the fronts down through Pennsylvania,West Virginia. Now I'm stuck
in Russelville Arkansas. Wouldn't start this morning(think I probably
flooded it) Used spare air. Now I'm screwed. Nothing open on Sunday of
course. Monday will try to get some help from a welding supply place
here in town. I don't have the large cylinder adapter so hopefully they
can rig something up. It's been an adventure all right. Still have 2
days to get to California. No pics yet,too damn busy trying to stay warm
:)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215891#215891
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Man Formation |
No, just kill yourself. That is the suggestion I have been receiving
lately. :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:21 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Missing Man Formation
> OK, suppose I just filled up with MoGas, and even though I wiped my
MMO-soaked hand on my flight suit during TO roll as lead, the throttle
momentarily slipped out of my hand, causing -2 to lift off slightly
before me during a Missing Man flight for a deceased non-military
pilot. Should I have been wearing a helmet?
>
> Dave
Yes, if you're flying a CJ, not required if in a Yak!
LOL, Dave, thanks!
Cheers,
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215726#215726
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS installation questons |
I have installed one in a YAK-50 Steve, but not in my aircraft. Plan to
though, great unit. I think Tom Johnson and Doc did as well.
ANYWAY....With any flux valve, it is smart to locate it as far away from
the engine as possible. Hard iron causes what is called single cycle
errors. Further, anything that produces a magnetic field, such as a
generator, or even wire with electricity flowing through it produces
what is called "two cycle errors". Without boring you to death on the
details, the bottom line is that the further you put the "remote
compass" (which is in reality a flux valve) away from the above
described "bad things" the more accurate that little sucker is going to
be, and the easier job it will have of "self-nulling" these errors when
you perform the self-calibrate function.
If you pull the two fiberglass gap sealers at the fuselage side of the
horizontal stab, you can see a gap up high where the vertical stab
attaches. There is an area in there it will fit in. Aluminum is no
problem in this regard and although I would not want to put it in a
aluminum BOX for heavens sake, having some aluminum structure around is
no issue. You want to keep any steel screws away from it though if you
can. Use brass or even stainless steel for screws if you have to use
them. Of course, I am going a tad over-board here. In the aircraft I
am used to swinging, you can't have more than a degree of error before
it fails... But still, it never hurts to try and do it as best as
possible.
For the wiring, I made 90 degree L brackets, with an anchor nut riveted
on, then an ADEL clamp and then rivets that whole mess to the aircraft.
That was a lot of work. I am sure someone else might have a better way
than that.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 4:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Dynon EFIS installation questons
Guys/gals,
I am installing a Dynon D10A EFIS in my Yak. I know many of you have
already done this, so may I ask for some help with the following:
-where did you put the remote compass?
-if you put it in the tail, how did you route the wiring from the
cockpit area back thru the fuselage all the way to the tail?
-where did you put the OAT sensor?
-any other advice?
THANKS,
Steve Dalton
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215588#215588
Message 8
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| Subject: | brake differential valve |
I do not know jack about YAK brakes. Mine are converted to Hyd toe
types, and I will never regret the change!
That said, one thing that is true of electricity, hydraulics, and to a
certain extent, even compressed air, is that pressure at rest remains
the same regardless of any resistance in the line. For example, you can
have 10,000 ohms of resistance in a wire, but with no current flow, your
volt meter will measure the same voltage coming into that wire as coming
out of it. Same thing goes with hydraulics.
Sooooo considering that fact, I think you might want to be cautious
about pressure checks and the resultant 150 PSI at both wheels as a
means of determining everything is OK. That is a static check. On the
other hand, when you apply the brakes, now you have fluid MOVING and
that is a whole different ball of wax. Now since there is flow, any
resistance in the line would come into play immediately.
To me, it sounds like you are getting enough pressure in the line to the
brake that when you actuate it, you get braking. After you land, ...
One assumes you used a lot of air. The air in the main tank went LOW
for awhile. Landing gear, flaps, etc., etc. You land, and the tank
refills, but the air available to the left brake is LOW due to a
restriction somewhere. So.. You let it sit for a few hours, and POOF,
the pressures equalize and it works again.
This is the only theory I can see that explains the facts. Not much
help in locating the problem... But my vote says it has to be a line
restriction.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Yak-List: brake differential valve
Where is the left/right brake distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e.
how does one get to it)?
Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums (but
not the pucks, which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems to
have a left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after landing
(although it has some, but not much).
I find this to be very odd. Pressure tests good at both brake line
outlets at the wheels, about 150psi. I don't hear any hissing or see
any air loss from holding the brake handle.
How does one tell if the distributor valve is acting whacky?
Thanks,
Jon
Message 9
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Dear Matt,
I have been a reader and contributor to the YAK list for years now since
I first purchased my YAK-50. In that period of time I have watched, and
in some cases participated in, many off-topic discussions that most
likely never should have been part of the YAK LIST. However, even
though I have had strong feelings about some of these topics, I have
never complained about any one person in particular. However, over the
years I have seen one or two people that really got the most joy in life
by making other people angry, and once they start, they simply do NOT
give up.
We now have such a person on the YAK LIST by the name of Bill Geipel.
This gent and myself had a disagreement about Missing Man Formations.
Ok, disagreements happen and that is not the end of the world. The fact
is, I am more than happy to respect this persons point of view, but on
the contrary, this gent just keeps attacking everybody he can think of,
and myself in particular.
He will misquote messages and then post things I never said, he will
take private email that I have written to others and then when he gets
his hands on it, he posts it as public email.
In short, anything he can do to continue a hateful dialogue.
I enjoy the YAK list, and have a ton of friends here, and I enjoy the
opportunity to help others. I do not enjoy this man pushing, pushing,
pushing, for public name calling contests.
I have never written to you before, and as I have said, my hands are not
squeaky clean either, but enough is enough.
Please offer your help and advice in this matter,
Sincerely,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:25 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Behind By 21% - Advertising May Be Needed...?
Dear Listers,
The percentage of people making a Contribution to support the Lists this
year is currently lagging behind last year by approximately 21%! I'm
hoping that everyone is just waiting until the last minute to show their
support... ;-)
Please remember that it is solely your direct Contributions that keep
these Lists up and running and most importantly - AD FREE! If the
members don't want to support the Lists directly, then I will likely
have to start adding advertisements to offset the costs of running the
Lists. But I *really* don't want to have to start doing that. I really
like the non-commercial atmosphere here and I think that a lot of the
members appreciate that too.
Please take a moment to make a Contribution today in support of the
continued ad-free operation of all these Lists:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I want to send out a word of appreciation to all of the members that
have already made their generous Contribution to support the Lists!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Message 10
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Yak Listers,
While I haven't been following the threads mentioned by Mark below, I will take
this opportunity to reemphasize the List Usage Guidelines found in the FAQ here:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
Specifically, these come to mind:
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
Offensive behavior is grounds for removal and blocking from the List. Please be
courteous and respectful to all members of the group.
Word to the wise...
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
At 09:41 AM 11/24/2008 Monday, you wrote:
>
>
> Dear Matt,
>
>I have been a reader and contributor to the YAK list for years now since
>I first purchased my YAK-50. In that period of time I have watched, and
>in some cases participated in, many off-topic discussions that most
>likely never should have been part of the YAK LIST. However, even
>though I have had strong feelings about some of these topics, I have
>never complained about any one person in particular. However, over the
>years I have seen one or two people that really got the most joy in life
>by making other people angry, and once they start, they simply do NOT
>give up.
>
>We now have such a person on the YAK LIST by the name of Bill Geipel.
>This gent and myself had a disagreement about Missing Man Formations.
>Ok, disagreements happen and that is not the end of the world. The fact
>is, I am more than happy to respect this persons point of view, but on
>the contrary, this gent just keeps attacking everybody he can think of,
>and myself in particular.
>
>He will misquote messages and then post things I never said, he will
>take private email that I have written to others and then when he gets
>his hands on it, he posts it as public email.
>
>In short, anything he can do to continue a hateful dialogue.
>
>I enjoy the YAK list, and have a ton of friends here, and I enjoy the
>opportunity to help others. I do not enjoy this man pushing, pushing,
>pushing, for public name calling contests.
>
>I have never written to you before, and as I have said, my hands are not
>squeaky clean either, but enough is enough.
>
>Please offer your help and advice in this matter,
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Mark Bitterlich
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: brake differential valve |
For about $65 one can purchase a brake differential valve overhaul kit
from Doug Sapp. Very likely, the BDV is "sticking". There are little
"pistons" and seals which cause the input air pressure to be diverted to
the left and right depending on the position of the swing arm. It will
take about an hour to R and R the BDV and overhaul it. My guess is the
problem is in the BDV.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: brake differential valve
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I do not know jack about YAK brakes. Mine are converted to Hyd toe
types, and I will never regret the change!
That said, one thing that is true of electricity, hydraulics, and to a
certain extent, even compressed air, is that pressure at rest remains
the same regardless of any resistance in the line. For example, you
can
have 10,000 ohms of resistance in a wire, but with no current flow,
your
volt meter will measure the same voltage coming into that wire as
coming
out of it. Same thing goes with hydraulics.
Sooooo considering that fact, I think you might want to be cautious
about pressure checks and the resultant 150 PSI at both wheels as a
means of determining everything is OK. That is a static check. On
the
other hand, when you apply the brakes, now you have fluid MOVING and
that is a whole different ball of wax. Now since there is flow, any
resistance in the line would come into play immediately.
To me, it sounds like you are getting enough pressure in the line to
the
brake that when you actuate it, you get braking. After you land, ...
One assumes you used a lot of air. The air in the main tank went LOW
for awhile. Landing gear, flaps, etc., etc. You land, and the tank
refills, but the air available to the left brake is LOW due to a
restriction somewhere. So.. You let it sit for a few hours, and POOF,
the pressures equalize and it works again.
This is the only theory I can see that explains the facts. Not much
help in locating the problem... But my vote says it has to be a line
restriction.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:57 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: brake differential valve
Where is the left/right brake distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e.
how does one get to it)?
Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums
(but
not the pucks, which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems to
have a left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after
landing
(although it has some, but not much).
I find this to be very odd. Pressure tests good at both brake line
outlets at the wheels, about 150psi. I don't hear any hissing or see
any air loss from holding the brake handle.
How does one tell if the distributor valve is acting whacky?
Thanks,
Jon
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons |
Thanks Mark,
I think I'm going to mount the remote compass onto the factory built aluminum mounting
bracket behind the backseater's head that Aerostar used to attach the
ELT when they built the plane. The ELT has since been moved to below the baggage
compartment and this leftover mounting bracket is perfect (level, STRONG and
nothing magnetic around it). A couple rivets and it's done!
Also saves me from trying to fish the wire thru the aft fuselage and keep it away
from the control cables. My big ass won't fit thru the baggage door to get
in there to secure the wire!
Next question is the OAT probe. A couple guys have put it on top of the fuselage
behind the canopy. My concern was the sun heating it up, but I'm told this
location worked fine. Thoughts?
Thanks again
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216090#216090
Message 13
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| Subject: | brake differential valve |
Turns out that it was a combination of three things:
1. Drums were slightly worn.
2. QS-2 valve had issues.
3. Front brake cable tension was slightly low.
Replaced the drums and QS-2=2C backed out the adjustment on the front brake
handle by about 1/3" and it seems to work great.
Jon
From: dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: brake differential valve
For about $65 one can purchase a brake
differential valve overhaul kit from Doug Sapp. Very likely=2C the BDV is
"sticking". There are little "pistons" and seals which cause the input air
pressure to be diverted to the left and right depending on the position of
the
swing arm. It will take about an hour to R and R the BDV and overhaul
it. My guess is the problem is in the BDV.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From:
Bitterlich=2C Mark G CIV Det Cherry
Point=2C MALS-14 64E
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday=2C November 24=2C 2008 11:07
AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: brake differential
valve
Cherry Point=2C MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I
do not know jack about YAK brakes. Mine are converted to Hyd
toe
types=2C and I will never regret the change!
That said=2C one
thing that is true of electricity=2C hydraulics=2C and to a
certain extent=2C
even compressed air=2C is that pressure at rest remains
the same regardless
of any resistance in the line. For example=2C you can
have 10=2C000 ohms
of resistance in a wire=2C but with no current flow=2C your
volt meter will
measure the same voltage coming into that wire as coming
out of it.
Same thing goes with hydraulics.
Sooooo considering that fact=2C I
think you might want to be cautious
about pressure checks and the resultant
150 PSI at both wheels as a
means of determining everything is OK.
That is a static check. On the
other hand=2C when you apply the brakes=2C
now you have fluid MOVING and
that is a whole different ball of wax.
Now since there is flow=2C any
resistance in the line would come into play
immediately.
To me=2C it sounds like you are getting enough pressure in
the line to the
brake that when you actuate it=2C you get braking.
After you land=2C ...
One assumes you used a lot of air. The air in the
main tank went LOW
for awhile. Landing gear=2C flaps=2C etc.=2C etc.
You land=2C and the tank
refills=2C but the air available to the left brake is
LOW due to a
restriction somewhere. So.. You let it sit for a few
hours=2C and POOF=2C
the pressures equalize and it works again.
This is
the only theory I can see that explains the facts. Not much
help in
locating the problem... But my vote says it has to be a
line
restriction.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday=2C November 21=2C 2008 3:57 PM
Subject:
Yak-List: brake differential valve
Where is the left/right brake
distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e.
how does one get to
it)?
Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums
(but
not the pucks=2C which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems
to
have a left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after
landing
(although it has some=2C but not much).
I find this to be very
odd. Pressure tests good at both brake line
outlets at the wheels=2C
about 150psi. I don't hear any hissing or see
any air loss from
holding the brake handle.
How does one tell if the distributor valve is
acting
-- Please Support Your Lists This Month
(And Get
the Annual
link
Free
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Thank you for your generous
=3B
-Matt Dralle=2C List
nbsp=3B
Navigator
Photoshare=2C and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
========================<
=3B
via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_=============
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: brake differential valve |
Jon,
Be wary of the brake cable, cable does not just one day decide to stretch.
It just might be getting ready to break. I have seen many of them seem a
bit loose, then fail later after they were "snugged up". Keep an careful
eye on it.
Doug
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Turns out that it was a combination of three things:
>
> 1. Drums were slightly worn.
> 2. QS-2 valve had issues.
> 3. Front brake cable tension was slightly low.
>
> Replaced the drums and QS-2, backed out the adjustment on the front brake
> handle by about 1/3" and it seems to work great.
>
> Jon
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: brake differential valve
> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:18:32 -0600
>
> For about $65 one can purchase a brake differential valve overhaul kit from
> Doug Sapp. Very likely, the BDV is "sticking". There are little "pistons"
> and seals which cause the input air pressure to be diverted to the left and
> right depending on the position of the swing arm. It will take about an
> hour to R and R the BDV and overhaul it. My guess is the problem is in the
> BDV.
> Dennis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
> *To:* yak-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 24, 2008 11:07 AM
> *Subject:* RE: Yak-List: brake differential valve
>
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
> I do not know jack about YAK brakes. Mine are converted to Hyd toe
> types, and I will never regret the change!
>
> That said, one thing that is true of electricity, hydraulics, and to a
> certain extent, even compressed air, is that pressure at rest remains
> the same regardless of any resistance in the line. For example, you can
> have 10,000 ohms of resistance in a wire, but with no current flow, your
> volt meter will measure the same voltage coming into that wire as coming
> out of it. Same thing goes with hydraulics.
>
> Sooooo considering that fact, I think you might want to be cautious
> about pressure checks and the resultant 150 PSI at both wheels as a
> means of determining everything is OK. That is a static check. On the
> other hand, when you apply the brakes, now you have fluid MOVING and
> that is a whole different ball of wax. Now since there is flow, any
> resistance in the line would come into play immediately.
>
> To me, it sounds like you are getting enough pressure in the line to the
> brake that when you actuate it, you get braking. After you land, ...
> One assumes you used a lot of air. The air in the main tank went LOW
> for awhile. Landing gear, flaps, etc., etc. You land, and the tank
> refills, but the air available to the left brake is LOW due to a
> restriction somewhere. So.. You let it sit for a few hours, and POOF,
> the pressures equalize and it works again.
>
> This is the only theory I can see that explains the facts. Not much
> help in locating the problem... But my vote says it has to be a line
> restriction.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:57 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: brake differential valve
>
> Where is the left/right brake distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e.
> how does one get to it)?
>
> Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums (but
> not the pucks, which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems to
> have a left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after landing
> (although it has some, but not much).
>
> I find this to be very odd. Pressure tests good at both brake line
> outlets at the wheels, about 150psi. I don't hear any hissing or see
> any air loss from holding the brake handle.
>
> How does one tell if the distributor valve is acting -- Please Support Your
> Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free href="
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank
> you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;
> Navigator Photoshare, and href="
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics========================<;
> via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> _=============
>
>
> *<.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List*
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fuel tanks and HS6 for sale. |
In a message dated 11/24/2008 10:37:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dougsappllc@gmail.com writes:
Doug, and all,
You are absolutely correct and going back and reading my posting, I now
realize how misleading it is. My defense is that it was a last minute decision.
I was cleaning out my hangar and the guy who I was saving it for, changed
his mind. The engine was on the airplane when I purchased it. I was told that
the engine had been overhauled and had only 5 hours on it since that
overhaul. No Chinese engine logs came with the airplane and only Xerox copies
of
the last two pages of the aircraft log. Total time on the airframe at the time
was 1,088 hours. Maybe not been wise 15 years ago, but I took Bret Toussel
(who had been a partners with Bill Bailey at China Air) word in good faith.
And the IA at the time helping me put the airplane together, felt the engine
lived up to those specs.
The engine is painted gray. I did not mean to insinuate that the engine was
'since new' which again, after rereading my post sure sounded like it. My
bad.
In truth at this witting, I do not know how many overhauls its gone though.
I do remember that it was running strong and had good compression when I
pulled it off for the M-14.
Is there is anyway to tell by external inspection on how many overhauls a
Chinese engine has gone though with any reasonable certainty?
To any prospective buyer, I will answer any question as accurately and
honestly as I can. Of course there will be no guaranties and in the end as
always the decision is the buyers.
Thanks Doug for catching this.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Pappy,
Your engine is a "since NEW" engine? If yes it should be painted a very
light sky blue in color. or is is a "since overhaul" engine, which is a dark
blue or dark grey in color. As you know it's all about time so there is a big
difference in value. If your engine has a total time of 300 hours then your
saying that it is 300 hours since new. If it is 300 hours since 1st overhaul
then it has 300 to the top and approx. 900 on the bottom, 2nd over haul add
600 hours, third over haul add 1200 hours to both those numbers.
Doug
On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:32 PM, <_cjpilot710@aol.com_
(mailto:cjpilot710@aol.com) > wrote:
Troops,
Been cleaning out my hangar for our bi-annual Thanksgiving bash with the
in-laws. The 40+ of us eat the meal in my hangar.
I've had two CJ-6 fuel tanks sitting under a table off the floor since
putting Gill's bladder tanks in a couple years ago. They are in very good shape
and have about 2,000 hours total time. Fuel level senders are there also.
I am going to sell my HS-6 (260 hp) engine also. Total time under 300 hours.
Contact me off list for details.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
____________________________________
One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the
things youolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com today!
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons |
Steve, I am hopefully confident that the location mentioned will work
just fine for you! These modern automatically compensated flux valves
are indeed amazing pieces of technology and will tolerate more than can
be imagined. However, mounting them down inside an actual instrument
panel is asking a lot, hence the remote flux valve they offer. I have
never done a 52, so I was not aware of your stated location for it. It
does really sound ideal! Rog on being big. Same here. I had to hire a
very small person, yank the seat, and give him a big shove.
I did not do the OAT probe Steve, sorry. As for the sun heating it up,
I have seen that happen myself on our EA-6B OAT probes, when sitting on
the deck... But once in the air, they all read perfectly. I doubt you
will have any problems, but my experience is limited in this regard to
military aircraft and not the YAK.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mozam
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons
Thanks Mark,
I think I'm going to mount the remote compass onto the factory built
aluminum mounting bracket behind the backseater's head that Aerostar
used to attach the ELT when they built the plane. The ELT has since
been moved to below the baggage compartment and this leftover mounting
bracket is perfect (level, STRONG and nothing magnetic around it). A
couple rivets and it's done!
Also saves me from trying to fish the wire thru the aft fuselage and
keep it away from the control cables. My big ass won't fit thru the
baggage door to get in there to secure the wire!
Next question is the OAT probe. A couple guys have put it on top of the
fuselage behind the canopy. My concern was the sun heating it up, but
I'm told this location worked fine. Thoughts?
Thanks again
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216090#216090
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons |
Steve:
How about in one of the wheel wells? This location has worked well in
the IAR 823.
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
215.914.0370
Next question is the OAT probe. A couple guys have put it on top of the
fuselage behind the canopy. My concern was the sun heating it up, but
I'm told this location worked fine. Thoughts?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: YAK Cross country underway |
Bill, I had the same problem traveling in my 52 and got stuck on a Sunday. I
called a truck tire emergency repair outfit and they had tanks of high
pressure Nitrogen. We went to the local auto parts store for some adaptive
fittings and I was back in business. Hope this helps.
In a message dated 11/23/2008 3:34:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
billdykes52@gmail.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill1200" <billdykes52@gmail.com>
Well things were going pretty good. Got out of Vermont in brutal cold. Beat
the fronts down through Pennsylvania,West Virginia. Now I'm stuck in
Russelville Arkansas. Wouldn't start this morning(think I probably flooded it)
Used
spare air. Now I'm screwed. Nothing open on Sunday of course. Monday will try
to get some help from a welding supply place here in town. I don't have the
large cylinder adapter so hopefully they can rig something up. It's been an
adventure all right. Still have 2 days to get to California. No pics yet,too
damn busy trying to stay warm :)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215891#215891
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
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Message 19
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| Subject: | YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! |
Need Diagnosis!
Took my YAK 50 for a test flight after replacing the air line from the air
compressor to the 'snot' valve and upon landing, while testing my magneto's
prior to shutdown as i usually do, noticed the #2 magneto position was cold
dead. It had tested good 15 minutes before during run up, never a trouble
before. Switch, Points, cap, wires and P Lead all look/check good.
What would make a magneto completely 'die' in such a short time frame with
absolutely no warning? Any ideas, or similar experiences? Any diagnosis?
What did you do?
Currently looking at getting a replacement mag thinking something inside
flew West???
Thanks for any info in advance!
Jj
YAK 50
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
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Message 20
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| Subject: | FW: Those Sneaky Marines !! |
I think this would look good on a YAK 52 or a CJ6.
Steve Johnson
Yak 52, N9900X
0B5, MA
413 522-1130 Cell
Look Closely......
Keep looking. . .
See it now?
Ya gotta love the
Marines.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! |
The coil is mostly gone TU. One minute it can be good and the next
minute it's gone. The capacitor/condenser is internal to the coil. I
believe Jill has replacements. Not cheap. But she does have
replacements.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jetj01@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Yak-List: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD!
Need Diagnosis!
Took my YAK 50 for a test flight after replacing the air line from the
air compressor to the 'snot' valve and upon landing, while testing my
magneto's prior to shutdown as i usually do, noticed the #2 magneto
position was cold dead. It had tested good 15 minutes before during run
up, never a trouble before. Switch, Points, cap, wires and P Lead all
look/check good.
What would make a magneto completely 'die' in such a short time frame
with absolutely no warning? Any ideas, or similar experiences? Any
diagnosis? What did you do?
Currently looking at getting a replacement mag thinking something
inside flew West???
Thanks for any info in advance!
Jj
YAK 50
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and
the things you love. Try%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com today!
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: YAK Cross country underway |
Thanks to all for the tips. Found a scuba shop in Little Rock. Filled my bottle
and rented 2 scuba tanks just in case. Started on the first try so I don't know
what I did wrong Sunday. Anyways I'm in New Mexico. Gonna go have a beer and
some good food. Those dry counties back east are the pits. Last leg tomorrow
:D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216147#216147
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS installation questons |
I think the OAT probe actually plugs into the remote compass so you should
consider putting it near there.
In a message dated 11/24/2008 2:34:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ReadeG@Cairnwood.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Steve:
How about in one of the wheel wells? This location has worked well in
the IAR 823.
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
mailto:readeg@cairnwood.com
215.914.0370
Next question is the OAT probe. A couple guys have put it on top of the
fuselage behind the canopy. My concern was the sun heating it up, but
I'm told this location worked fine. Thoughts?
**************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks,
and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: Magneto failure |
Remove the cap and look at the points, see if the point arm,or spring is
broken.
Frank
N23021
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! |
Thanks to the posts and private emails. gave me some good leads...hope to
find out which one fixes it soon! I deserve it tho, had jinxed myself by just
two weeks ago saying it had been over a year since my YAK had let me
down...DOH!
Jj
In a message dated 11/24/2008 7:07:30 P.M. Central Standard Time,
dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net writes:
The coil is mostly gone TU. One minute it can be good and the next minute
it's gone. The capacitor/condenser is internal to the coil. I believe Jill
has replacements. Not cheap. But she does have replacements.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: _Jetj01@aol.com_ (mailto:Jetj01@aol.com)
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:41 PM
Subject: Yak-List: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD!
Need Diagnosis!
Took my YAK 50 for a test flight after replacing the air line from the air
compressor to the 'snot' valve and upon landing, while testing my magneto's
prior to shutdown as i usually do, noticed the #2 magneto position was cold
dead. It had tested good 15 minutes before during run up, never a trouble
before. Switch, Points, cap, wires and P Lead all look/check good.
What would make a magneto completely 'die' in such a short time frame with
absolutely no warning? Any ideas, or similar experiences? Any diagnosis?
What did you do?
Currently looking at getting a replacement mag thinking something inside
flew West???
Thanks for any info in advance!
Jj
YAK 50
____________________________________
One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the
things you love. Try%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com
today!
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: brake differential valve |
I had a brake cable go bad on my CJ, it happened very slowly, brakes kept getting
weaker and weaker. Found the cable was fraying internally, replaced the cable
and everything worked fine. Would be a good idea to replace the cable. Gary,?
CJ,?? ?N22YK
-----Original Message-----
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:09 am
Subject: Re: Yak-List: brake differential valve
Jon,
Be wary of the brake cable, cable does not just one day decide to stretch.? It
just might be?getting ready to break.? I have seen many of them seem a bit loose,
then fail later after they were "snugged up".? Keep an careful eye on it.
?
Doug
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Jon Boede <jonboede@hotmail.com> wrote:
Turns out that it was a combination of three things:
1. Drums were slightly worn.
2. QS-2 valve had issues.
3. Front brake cable tension was slightly low.
Replaced the drums and QS-2, backed out the adjustment on the front brake handle
by about 1/3" and it seems to work great.
Jon
From: dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: brake differential valve
For about $65 one can purchase a brake differential valve overhaul kit from Doug
Sapp.? Very likely, the BDV is "sticking".? There are little "pistons" and seals
which cause the input air pressure to be diverted to the left and right depending
on the position of the swing arm.? It will take about an hour to R and
R the BDV and overhaul it.? My guess is the problem is in the BDV.
Dennis
?
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: brake differential valve
I do not know jack about YAK brakes.? Mine are converted to Hyd toe
types, and I will never regret the change!?
That said, one thing that is true of electricity, hydraulics, and to a
certain extent, even compressed air, is that pressure at rest remains
the same regardless of any resistance in the line.? For example, you can
have 10,000 ohms of resistance in a wire, but with no current flow, your
volt meter will measure the same voltage coming into that wire as coming
out of it.? Same thing goes with hydraulics.?
Sooooo considering that fact, I think you might want to be cautious
about pressure checks and the resultant 150 PSI at both wheels as a
means of determining everything is OK.? That is a static check.? On the
other hand, when you apply the brakes, now you have fluid MOVING and
that is a whole different ball of wax.? Now since there is flow, any
resistance in the line would come into play immediately.
To me, it sounds like you are getting enough pressure in the line to the
brake that when you actuate it, you get braking.? After you land, ...
One assumes you used a lot of air.? The air in the main tank went LOW
for awhile.? Landing gear, flaps, etc., etc.? You land, and the tank
refills, but the air available to the left brake is LOW due to a
restriction somewhere.? So.. You let it sit for a few hours, and POOF,
the pressures equalize and it works again.
This is the only theory I can see that explains the facts.? Not much
help in locating the problem... But my vote says it has to be a line
restriction.?
Mark Bitterlich
?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Yak-List: brake differential valve
Where is the left/right brake distributor valve (QSF-2?) located (i.e.
how does one get to it)?
Still working on that odd brake issue... after replacing the drums (but
not the pucks, which seemed to be at full size) the airplane seems to
have a left brake on taxi-out but seems to be lacking one after landing
(although it has some, but not much).
I find this to be very odd.? Pressure tests good at both brake line
outlets at the wheels, about 150psi.? I don't hear any hissing or see
any air loss from holding the brake handle.
How does one tell if the distributor valve is acting -- Please Support Your Lists This Month (And Get the Annual link Free href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ;????????????????????? -Matt Dralle, List nbsp;?????? Navigator Photoshare, and href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics========================<;??? via the Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: brake differential valve |
How tough is it to replace the cable?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216169#216169
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: brake differential valve |
It has been several years ago when I replaced it.. Trying to remember, but I fabricated
the new cable myself from the center strand of a 7 X 19 cable? I think
it was the strand from a 3/32 nd cable and soldered the ends back on the cable
as the original one had on it, getting the cable assembly out of the airplane
was not too difficult as I remember. I would check with Doug or Dennis, as
they may have a new one.. That would be the easiest way to go..? Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: N642K <mdecanio@mac.com>
Sent: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 9:15 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Re: brake differential valve
How tough is it to replace the cable?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216169#216169
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD! |
Whats the Mag.Number, I have a Russian Mag. in my CJ parts
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: Jetj01@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:41 PM
Subject: Yak-List: YAK M-14P Magneto DEAD!
Need Diagnosis!
Took my YAK 50 for a test flight after replacing the air line from the
air compressor to the 'snot' valve and upon landing, while testing my
magneto's prior to shutdown as i usually do, noticed the #2 magneto
position was cold dead. It had tested good 15 minutes before during run
up, never a trouble before. Switch, Points, cap, wires and P Lead all
look/check good.
What would make a magneto completely 'die' in such a short time frame
with absolutely no warning? Any ideas, or similar experiences? Any
diagnosis? What did you do?
Currently looking at getting a replacement mag thinking something
inside flew West???
Thanks for any info in advance!
Jj
YAK 50
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