---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/29/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation (dabear) 2. 08:24 AM - Voltage Regulators (jblake207@COMCAST.NET) 3. 09:36 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Joe Howse) 4. 09:38 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (doug sapp) 5. 10:07 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Gill Gutierrez) 6. 12:09 PM - Re: Vooltage regulators (Frank Stelwagon) 7. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Vooltage regulators (Gill Gutierrez) 8. 02:02 PM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Yak Pilot) 9. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: Vooltage regulators (Frank Stelwagon) 10. 06:57 PM - Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation (mgdimarco) 11. 07:09 PM - Re: Voltage Regulators (vectorwarbirds@aol.com) 12. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation (Walter Lannon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:55 AM PST US From: "dabear" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation Michael, Who wieghed your CJ? Who did the initial W/B calcualtions or are you just using the information in the manual without actually putting the CJ on scales? Also, please check the past conversations on the yak-list as you will find that many people had the exact same W/B calculation sheet (same weights for everything) down to the same signature in the xerox copy. That led many here to re-do their W/B themselves or have their local shop do it. If you haven't done it yourself or had a good shop do it, please go get it done before your next flight. If you are using the 94.7 inches in front of the Main Nose Wheel then the pilot station I have is 101.81. I've seen as much as 9 inches difference from the other cj pilots calculations. Now, you will also find if you put 2 different known weight pilots in the front seat and re-weigh the airplane, you will find there will be difference in the pilot station due to the weight difference of the "legs vs. body" between the two pilots. I took an average of 3 people (170lbs, 210lbs, and 250lbs) in my caluclation. Rather than just a measurement off the seat pan. I don't believe (but can not confirm because I didn't measure) the inner firewall station being 70" It sounds wrong. Walt using 125 MWcenter, what do you have as the firewall station? Using the 94.7" forward of the MW Center as the DATUM, the oil station becomes 47.81 Using the 94.7" forward of the MW Center as the DATUM you get the following stations depending on the length of your baggage compartment: Avionics bay 161.28 Battery Box 178.19 ADF Electronics Tray 200.19 Again, if the CJ W/B is still a xerox copy of someone else's information, you haven't watched the shop do the W/B from scratch, then please have it re-done before you fly. I'll forward the spreadsheet I did in case you are interested. However it is only good if you weigh your airplane and input the 3 wheel weights and initial measurements. Version 3 of the sheet will be coming out in the next few weeks as I've found out I didn't put a "DATUM" location explaination in the sheet. Some may want that. If there is anyone out there that would like to see changes to the sheet, please let me know before Feb 1. DaBear ----- Original Message ----- From: "mgdimarco" Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation > > My understanding is making real progress. Thanks for the definition of > MAC, but I was looking for a value and the best I could determine was 68.8 > which is right in line with the 68.78 answer. > > Is the 94.7 LE of MAC the same as the datum of 70" forward of the > firewall? > > Anyone see the Pilot station as being closer to 104" than 114.3" from > that datum? > > Thanks for the confirmation of the oil tank at 48" on the 70" datum. > > How about the "cargo" compartment. Would you use the battery location or > just aft of it as the center? > > In case anyone is interested, what started this was my head scratching as > to why I could not but a 240# pilot and a 280# co-pilot in a 2412# > airplane with only 140# of gas and 25# of oil. I kept getting a 116.7" > C.G. (out of limit aft). It is not the case if the pilot station is at > 104 (as I measure it) vs. 114.3 which seems to be the standard answer. > > Thanks again in advance for the help and your replies. > > Mike > > -------- > Michael Di Marco > China Blue > > 407-348-4798 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221528#221528 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:18 AM PST US From: jblake207@COMCAST.NET Subject: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput. Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK? JB

Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput.  Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK?   JB
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:51 AM PST US From: "Joe Howse" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators If you have the original magnetic VR ZY1500, We have built a direct replacement using a standard carbon pile regulator and a solid state reverse current diode. Uses original wiring and mounts on the same position. price is 750 plus freight. If you are interested I can send pics. Joe Howse Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput. Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK? JB ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:31 AM PST US From: "doug sapp" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators JB, I may have a new VR in my stock depending on which one you have. Happy new year, Doug On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:22 AM, wrote: > Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput. Has anyone installed a zeftronics > or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK? JB > > * > > -- Always Yakin, Doug Sapp Phone 509-826-4610 Fax 509-826-3644 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:46 AM PST US From: "Gill Gutierrez" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators Be sure you specify a type B generator when ordering a Zeftronics Gill _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jblake207@COMCAST.NET Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:23 AM Subject: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput. Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK? JB Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 2:23 PM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:46 PM PST US From: "Frank Stelwagon" Subject: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators I had several discussions with Zeftronics regarding a voltage regulator (50 Amps/28Volts) for the CJ. They wanted information on the Generator i.e. resistance of the field etc. I provided it to them. Never heard from them again, don't think they were interested. Frank CJ-6A N23021 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:36 PM PST US From: "Gill Gutierrez" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators I am surprised because it is a standard but limited production unit for them. A couple of years ago, after I provided Zeftronics with electrical schematic and ohm readings, the price was $386 for their type B GCU Part Number is G2540P (type B has to do with whether the generator self excites the fields or they are externally excited as with the CJ generator). I didn't buy because I was able to get my old unit working. You may want to check with them again Gill _____ From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stelwagon Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators I had several discussions with Zeftronics regarding a voltage regulator (50 Amps/28Volts) for the CJ. They wanted information on the Generator i.e. resistance of the field etc. I provided it to them. Never heard from them again, don't think they were interested. Frank CJ-6A N23021 2:23 PM ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:46 PM PST US From: Yak Pilot Subject: Re: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators Just for grins... what makes you sure the voltage regulator is bad?- I kn ow nothing about CJ electrical systems.- Never worked on, or touched one in my life.- However, I will say that I can hold my own with the Russian designed systems.- In the latter, a whole lot of things can go wrong, and the voltage regulator is not really at the top of the list.- Shorts on t he mount and VR wiring are not all that uncommon.- A failed VR itself hap pens, but is not common.- Of course anything can fail, but unless you hav e specifically tested the voltage regulator itself and are darn sure it is bad, I would be careful.- I.E.- If you have borrowed another VR from a fellow CJ owner and that FIXED the airplane,- no issues.- If you have n ot done that.... you might want to think about it before purchasing a new o ne.- =0A=0ADoug... anyone else... is the CJ-6 electrical system the same as the Russian design?- I.E. Does it include an over-voltgage interupt re lay to generator excitation, and does it use a reverse over-current relay l ike the Russian DNP-200?- =0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0AN50YK=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________________=0AFrom: "jblake207@comcast.net" =0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1 1:22:48 AM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators=0A=0A=0APretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput.- Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than or =========================0A ===================0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:34 PM PST US From: "Frank Stelwagon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators Thanks Gill for the information, I guess the person I talked to didn't care. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: Gill Gutierrez To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators I am surprised because it is a standard but limited production unit for them. A couple of years ago, after I provided Zeftronics with electrical schematic and ohm readings, the price was $386 for their type B GCU Part Number is G2540P (type B has to do with whether the generator self excites the fields or they are externally excited as with the CJ generator). I didn't buy because I was able to get my old unit working. You may want to check with them again Gill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stelwagon Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:08 PM To: yak-list@matronics.com Subject: Yak-List: Re: Vooltage regulators I had several discussions with Zeftronics regarding a voltage regulator (50 Amps/28Volts) for the CJ. They wanted information on the Generator i.e. resistance of the field etc. I provided it to them. Never heard from them again, don't think they were interested. Frank CJ-6A N23021 http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:04 PM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation From: "mgdimarco" This latest reply from Mr. Dabear has really muddied the waters. When I say 70" Datum, I'm referring to what many are using as datum to be 70" forward of the vertical firewall. And yes the airplane was put on scales but the stations were from the commonly publicized 70" datum. Examining your spreadsheet it is great for dynamic calculations, but the numbers/stations are way different from the "standard" I've been finding and not consistently different. Stations vary from 4" to over 10" from what I've been seeing. What you quote as the C.G. range also deviates significantly from everything I've seen so far. So it is back to the drawing board for finding a consistent answer/standard. Oh the joys of experimental aircraft. Mike -------- Michael Di Marco China Blue 407-348-4798 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221746#221746 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators From: vectorwarbirds@aol.com JB: I put the Jasco alternator on my CJ, lost about 25 pounds and works flawlessly.? Easy to install.? Got mine from George Coy at Gesoco, bolts right on.? About 800 clams back then! Bunndini Vector Warbirds -----Original Message----- From: jblake207@COMCAST.NET Sent: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 9:22 am Subject: Yak-List: Voltage Regulators Pretty sure the VR on my CJ is kaput.? Has anyone installed a zeftronics or other than original equipment VR on either a CJ or YAK?? ?JB ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:50 PM PST US From: Walter Lannon Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation Randy & Mike; I use a DATUM point of 125" forward of the manufacturers specified reference point which is the MAIN wheel C/L. All measurements are taken from the DATUM. For weight and balance purposes the DATUM is located at STATION "0" The figure 94.7" is not a datum, it is the station at which the leading edge of the MAC is located. That information is necessary ONLY to translate %MAC fore and aft limits into hard dimensions relative to the DATUM. Beyond that it is meaningless and irrelevant. >From the above DATUM I get the following; Oil (est. cg) -- 47" Pilot " -- 101.5" Pass. " -- 150.5" The "standard" man in the "standard" aircraft seat has his CG located at his belly button. Hmmm-- that was the 165 lb standard man of many years ago-----?????? Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "dabear" Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:30 AM Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation > Michael, > > Who wieghed your CJ? Who did the initial W/B calcualtions or are you just > using the information in the manual without actually putting the CJ on > scales? Also, please check the past conversations on the yak-list as you > will find that many people had the exact same W/B calculation sheet (same > weights for everything) down to the same signature in the xerox copy. > That > led many here to re-do their W/B themselves or have their local shop do > it. > If you haven't done it yourself or had a good shop do it, please go get it > done before your next flight. > > If you are using the 94.7 inches in front of the Main Nose Wheel then the > pilot station I have is 101.81. I've seen as much as 9 inches difference > from the other cj pilots calculations. Now, you will also find if you put > 2 > different known weight pilots in the front seat and re-weigh the airplane, > you will find there will be difference in the pilot station due to the > weight difference of the "legs vs. body" between the two pilots. I took > an > average of 3 people (170lbs, 210lbs, and 250lbs) in my caluclation. > Rather > than just a measurement off the seat pan. > > I don't believe (but can not confirm because I didn't measure) the inner > firewall station being 70" It sounds wrong. > > Walt using 125 MWcenter, what do you have as the firewall station? > > Using the 94.7" forward of the MW Center as the DATUM, the oil station > becomes 47.81 > Using the 94.7" forward of the MW Center as the DATUM you get the > following > stations depending on the length of your baggage compartment: > Avionics bay 161.28 > Battery Box 178.19 > ADF Electronics Tray 200.19 > > Again, if the CJ W/B is still a xerox copy of someone else's information, > you haven't watched the shop do the W/B from scratch, then please have it > re-done before you fly. > > I'll forward the spreadsheet I did in case you are interested. However it > is only good if you weigh your airplane and input the 3 wheel weights and > initial measurements. > > Version 3 of the sheet will be coming out in the next few weeks as I've > found out I didn't put a "DATUM" location explaination in the sheet. Some > may want that. If there is anyone out there that would like to see > changes > to the sheet, please let me know before Feb 1. > > DaBear > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mgdimarco" > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM > Subject: Yak-List: Re: CJ6A: stations for CG calculation > > >> >> My understanding is making real progress. Thanks for the definition of >> MAC, but I was looking for a value and the best I could determine was >> 68.8 >> which is right in line with the 68.78 answer. >> >> Is the 94.7 LE of MAC the same as the datum of 70" forward of the >> firewall? >> >> Anyone see the Pilot station as being closer to 104" than 114.3" from >> that datum? >> >> Thanks for the confirmation of the oil tank at 48" on the 70" datum. >> >> How about the "cargo" compartment. Would you use the battery location or >> just aft of it as the center? >> >> In case anyone is interested, what started this was my head scratching as >> to why I could not but a 240# pilot and a 280# co-pilot in a 2412# >> airplane with only 140# of gas and 25# of oil. I kept getting a 116.7" >> C.G. (out of limit aft). It is not the case if the pilot station is at >> 104 (as I measure it) vs. 114.3 which seems to be the standard answer. >> >> Thanks again in advance for the help and your replies. >> >> Mike >> >> -------- >> Michael Di Marco >> China Blue >> >> 407-348-4798 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221528#221528 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message yak-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/yak-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/yak-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.