Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 04:46 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (Jan Mevis)
3. 04:53 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 05:17 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (Jan Mevis)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (nc69666@aol.com)
6. 08:37 AM - 300 nm range restriction (Barry Hancock)
7. 09:10 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (Jan Mevis)
8. 09:49 AM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (Peter K. Van Staagen)
9. 12:17 PM - Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge (Jan Mevis)
10. 07:36 PM - Re: Spins (Jerry Painter)
11. 09:21 PM - Re Spins Yak 52 (Chris Wise)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Jan,
Since you have a 52 exhibiting the same symptom, did you check both the
front and rear instruments in the 52 and if so are they reading the
same?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=92ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe (-20
degrees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=92t know if there=92s any
correlation, but the needle of the main pressure gauge in my Yak 50 is
now in the other half of the instrument (at the side of the emergency
pressure indicator) at about two o=92clock. Emergency pressure is still
at the normal 60 kg/cm=B2. The aircraft was last flown at the end of
december 2008, just before the extremely cold weather. And at that time
everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=92clock. The amount
of motion to the left of the needle when depleting could correspond with
a presence of about 30 kg/cm=B2 in the main circuit (quite normal in my
Yak 50 after some time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=B2, but the needle of the main pressure was
again at two o=92clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=92clock. Although
the pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal, because
we could start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Yes, we checked, and the rear instrument was more or less =93normal=94
(but
low).
I start to think that the problem must be due to enclosed humidity.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 13:15
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Jan,
Since you have a 52 exhibiting the same symptom, did you check both the
front and rear instruments in the 52 and if so are they reading the
same?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=92ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe (-20
degrees
celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=92t know if there=92s any correlation,
but the
needle of the main pressure gauge in my Yak 50 is now in the other half
of
the instrument (at the side of the emergency pressure indicator) at
about
two o=92clock. Emergency pressure is still at the normal 60 kg/cm=B2.
The
aircraft was last flown at the end of december 2008, just before the
extremely cold weather. And at that time everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back
to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=92clock. The amount of
motion
to the left of the needle when depleting could correspond with a
presence of
about 30 kg/cm=B2 in the main circuit (quite normal in my Yak 50 after
some
time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=B2, but the needle of the main pressure was
again
at two o=92clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the
needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=92clock. Although the
pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal, because we
could
start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Ahhhh. Based on that, I think you have 2 instruments (one in the 50 and
one in the 52) that are not operating correctly in the very cold
weather. You may try warming the instruments slowly with a hair dryer
and see if the pressure reading drops back to "normal".
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Yes, we checked, and the rear instrument was more or less =93normal=94
(but low).
I start to think that the problem must be due to enclosed humidity.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 13:15
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Jan,
Since you have a 52 exhibiting the same symptom, did you check both
the front and rear instruments in the 52 and if so are they reading the
same?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=92ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe (-20
degrees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=92t know if there=92s any
correlation, but the needle of the main pressure gauge in my Yak 50 is
now in the other half of the instrument (at the side of the emergency
pressure indicator) at about two o=92clock. Emergency pressure is still
at the normal 60 kg/cm=B2. The aircraft was last flown at the end of
december 2008, just before the extremely cold weather. And at that time
everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle
moved back to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=92clock. The
amount of motion to the left of the needle when depleting could
correspond with a presence of about 30 kg/cm=B2 in the main circuit
(quite normal in my Yak 50 after some time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=B2, but the needle of the main pressure was
again at two o=92clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the
same hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this
52, the needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=92clock.
Although the pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal,
because we could start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums
.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.m
atronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt
p://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Thanks, will try that !
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 13:52
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Ahhhh. Based on that, I think you have 2 instruments (one in the 50 and
one
in the 52) that are not operating correctly in the very cold weather.
You
may try warming the instruments slowly with a hair dryer and see if the
pressure reading drops back to "normal".
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 6:44 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Yes, we checked, and the rear instrument was more or less =93normal=94
(but
low).
I start to think that the problem must be due to enclosed humidity.
Jan
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 13:15
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Jan,
Since you have a 52 exhibiting the same symptom, did you check both the
front and rear instruments in the 52 and if so are they reading the
same?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Jan Mevis <mailto:jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=92ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe (-20
degrees
celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=92t know if there=92s any correlation,
but the
needle of the main pressure gauge in my Yak 50 is now in the other half
of
the instrument (at the side of the emergency pressure indicator) at
about
two o=92clock. Emergency pressure is still at the normal 60 kg/cm=B2.
The
aircraft was last flown at the end of december 2008, just before the
extremely cold weather. And at that time everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back
to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=92clock. The amount of
motion
to the left of the needle when depleting could correspond with a
presence of
about 30 kg/cm=B2 in the main circuit (quite normal in my Yak 50 after
some
time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=B2, but the needle of the main pressure was
again
at two o=92clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the
needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=92clock. Although the
pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal, because we
could
start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Remove the pressure gauge and check the orface where the air pressure enters
the instrument, I had a similular occurance on my CJ, I found the opening w
ith a small amount of corrision in the opening, It is made of brass.. What I
did was to take a very fine probe and worked the blockage out ot the openin
g, there was some pressure trapped in the instrument so when I loosened the
obstruction, the pressure in the gauge blew the debris out of the opening..
It has worked fine ever since..
Gary=C2-=C2- CJ N22YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=99ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe (-20 de
grees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=99t know if there=99s an
y correlation, but the needle of the main pressure gauge in my Yak 50 is now
in the other half of the instrument (at the side of the emergency pressure
indicator) at about two o=99clock. Emergency pressure is still at the
normal 60 kg/cm=C2=B2. =C2-The aircraft was last flown at the end of decem
ber 2008, just before the extremely cold weather. And at that time everythin
g was normal.
=C2-
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved back t
o the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=99clock. The amount of
motion to the left of the needle when depleting could correspond with a pres
ence of about 30 kg/cm=C2=B2 in the main c
ircuit (quite normal in my Yak 50 after some time).
=C2-
I =C2-charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this corre
sponds with 50 kg/cm=C2=B2, but the needle of the main pressure =C2-was ag
ain at two o=99clock.
=C2-
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same hanga
r we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52, the needle
of the main pressure is also at about two o=99clock. Although the pres
sure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal, because we could sta
rt it without difficulties.
=C2-
Has anyone seen this before ?
=C2-
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
-= - The Yak-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
-
-========================
-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
-
-= --> http://forums.matronics.com
-
-========================
============3
D=======================
-= - List Contribution Web Site -
-= Thank you for your generous support!
-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-========================
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | 300 nm range restriction |
Hey Skip,
I believe this was covered a few months back on the list, but
essentially if you go to the EAAWB web site they will give you a step
by step. With the memorandum in hand you can apply for an addendum
to your existing Operating Limitations, or have new one's issued.
We've been successful in doing both with the local FSDO. As always,
the more educated you are the smoother the process will go.
Here's an excerpt from the EAAWB release in '07
How to obtain the letter of deviation:
Former military aircraft receiving initial experimental exhibition
(FAR 21.191(d)) certification from today forward, need to present the
September 11, 2007 FAA Memorandum to their FSDO in order to be exempt
from the 300/600-mile proficiency flight area limitation. The next
change to FAA Order 8130.2(F) will contain the elimination of this
requirement, but in the meantime, this FAA Memorandum is the
authority to remove the proficiency flight area limitation on their
operating limitations.
All former military experimental exhibition aircraft in Groups I, II,
and III currently operating and with the flight proficiency 300/600
mile limitations on their operating limitations must continue to
operate under the issued limitations until such time they get their
operating limitations updated from their local FSDO.
All former military experimental exhibition aircraft owners can
immediately apply to their local FSDO to amend their operating
limitations to eliminate the 300/600-mile flight proficiency area
limitation. Once amended, they will no longer have a proficiency
flight area limitation. When submitting the request to the FSDO to
drop the proficiency area limitation, owners should:
Submit a cover letter to their local FSDO=97=93Request the operating
limitations issued to TYPE OF AIRCRAFT, N-NUMBER, be updated to
eliminate the proficiency flight area limitation per FAA Memorandum,
subject: Deviation to Order 8130.2, dated September 11, 2007, from
Frank Paskiewicz, Manager AIR-200. FAA headquarters, AFS-800, and
AIR-200 have approved that this operating limitation change request
will be processed per FAA Order 8130.2F, paragraph 27b(6), and no
aircraft certification inspection is required for this paperwork
change.=94
The owners need to attach the following to their letter:
(1) A completed FAA Form 8130-6 http://forms.faa.gov/forms/
faa8130-6d.pdf; and
(2) A copy of their current operating limitations (not the original);
and
(3) A copy of their aircraft registration (not the original); and
(4) A copy of the FAA Memorandum from AIR-200.
As a note, once the local FSDO office is ready to update the
operating limitations, the owners can expect to go to that office and
exchange their old operating limitations for a new set (face to face).
The mailing addresses for local FSDOs is at: http://www.faa.gov/about/
office_org/field_offices/fsdo/
Good luck!
Barry
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Thank you all for the ideas.
So, the different possibilities:
- Frozen water in the lines; if that is the case, the problem
should disappear after warming up the aircraft (we=99ll put a
small bathroom heater with thermostate inside the cockpits to check,
since it is still way too cold here);
- An obstruction at the entrance of the gauges; if the first
option does not work, we=99ll take the gauges out to verify the
orifice at the entrance;
- Gauges severely damaged in one way or another (apparently
they have seen cracked up gauges in Russia in times of extreme cold) ,
in which case they have to be replaced.
As soon as I have a conclusive result, I=99ll inform the list. It
will be interesting to see if both the Yak 50 and the Yak 52 have the
same diagnosis.
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nc69666@aol.com
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 17:03
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Remove the pressure gauge and check the orface where the air pressure
enters the instrument, I had a similular occurance on my CJ, I found the
opening with a small amount of corrision in the opening, It is made of
brass.. What I did was to take a very fine probe and worked the blockage
out ot the opening, there was some pressure trapped in the instrument so
when I loosened the obstruction, the pressure in the gauge blew the
debris out of the opening.. It has worked fine ever since..
Gary CJ N22YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=99ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe
(-20 degrees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=99t know if
there=99s any correlation, but the needle of the main pressure
gauge in my Yak 50 is now in the other half of the instrument (at the
side of the emergency pressure indicator) at about two o=99clock.
Emergency pressure is still at the normal 60 kg/cm=C2=B2. The aircraft
was last flown at the end of december 2008, just before the extremely
cold weather. And at that time everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=99clock. The
amount of motion to the left of the needle when depleting could
correspond with a presence of about 30 kg/cm=C2=B2 in the main circuit
(quite normal in my Yak 50 after some time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=C2=B2, but the needle of the main pressure
was again at two o=99clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=99clock.
Although the pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal,
because we could start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations FREE while you
browse.
<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000022
> Start Listening Now!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | strange behaviour pressure gauge |
Jan,
My guess is that water has collected in the gauge, frozen, bent the
diaphragm.
Pete
__|__
__|__ ----=(*)=---- __|__
----=(*)=---- __|__ ----=(*)=----
----=(*)=----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Thank you all for the ideas.
So, the different possibilities:
- Frozen water in the lines; if that is the case, the problem
should disappear after warming up the aircraft (we=99ll put a
small bathroom heater with thermostate inside the cockpits to check,
since it is still way too cold here);
- An obstruction at the entrance of the gauges; if the first
option does not work, we=99ll take the gauges out to verify the
orifice at the entrance;
- Gauges severely damaged in one way or another (apparently
they have seen cracked up gauges in Russia in times of extreme cold) ,
in which case they have to be replaced.
As soon as I have a conclusive result, I=99ll inform the list. It
will be interesting to see if both the Yak 50 and the Yak 52 have the
same diagnosis.
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nc69666@aol.com
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 17:03
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Remove the pressure gauge and check the orface where the air pressure
enters the instrument, I had a similular occurance on my CJ, I found the
opening with a small amount of corrision in the opening, It is made of
brass.. What I did was to take a very fine probe and worked the blockage
out ot the opening, there was some pressure trapped in the instrument so
when I loosened the obstruction, the pressure in the gauge blew the
debris out of the opening.. It has worked fine ever since..
Gary CJ N22YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=99ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe
(-20 degrees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=99t know if
there=99s any correlation, but the needle of the main pressure
gauge in my Yak 50 is now in the other half of the instrument (at the
side of the emergency pressure indicator) at about two o=99clock.
Emergency pressure is still at the normal 60 kg/cm=C2=B2. The aircraft
was last flown at the end of december 2008, just before the extremely
cold weather. And at that time everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=99clock. The
amount of motion to the left of the needle when depleting could
correspond with a presence of about 30 kg/cm=C2=B2 in the main circuit
(quite normal in my Yak 50 after some time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=C2=B2, but the needle of the main pressure
was again at two o=99clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=99clock.
Although the pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal,
because we could start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations FREE while you
browse.
<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000022
> Start Listening Now!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | strange behaviour pressure gauge |
In that case, I=99ll have to replace it. I=99ll verify asap.
Thanks!
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter K. Van
Staagen
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 18:44
Subject: RE: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Jan,
My guess is that water has collected in the gauge, frozen, bent the
diaphragm.
Pete
__|__
__|__ ----=(*)=---- __|__
----=(*)=---- __|__ ----=(*)=----
----=(*)=----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Thank you all for the ideas.
So, the different possibilities:
- Frozen water in the lines; if that is the case, the problem
should disappear after warming up the aircraft (we=99ll put a
small bathroom heater with thermostate inside the cockpits to check,
since it is still way too cold here);
- An obstruction at the entrance of the gauges; if the first
option does not work, we=99ll take the gauges out to verify the
orifice at the entrance;
- Gauges severely damaged in one way or another (apparently
they have seen cracked up gauges in Russia in times of extreme cold) ,
in which case they have to be replaced.
As soon as I have a conclusive result, I=99ll inform the list. It
will be interesting to see if both the Yak 50 and the Yak 52 have the
same diagnosis.
Jan Mevis
YK50 RA2005K
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
nc69666@aol.com
Sent: maandag 12 januari 2009 17:03
Subject: Re: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
Remove the pressure gauge and check the orface where the air pressure
enters the instrument, I had a similular occurance on my CJ, I found the
opening with a small amount of corrision in the opening, It is made of
brass.. What I did was to take a very fine probe and worked the blockage
out ot the opening, there was some pressure trapped in the instrument so
when I loosened the obstruction, the pressure in the gauge blew the
debris out of the opening.. It has worked fine ever since..
Gary CJ N22YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:50 pm
Subject: Yak-List: strange behaviour pressure gauge
We=99ve had some unusually cold weather here in Western Europe
(-20 degrees celsius in Namur, Belgium). I don=99t know if
there=99s any correlation, but the needle of the main pressure
gauge in my Yak 50 is now in the other half of the instrument (at the
side of the emergency pressure indicator) at about two o=99clock.
Emergency pressure is still at the normal 60 kg/cm=C2=B2. The aircraft
was last flown at the end of december 2008, just before the extremely
cold weather. And at that time everything was normal.
I have depleted the main pressure system completely. The needle moved
back to the left a little, and stopped at about 11 o=99clock. The
amount of motion to the left of the needle when depleting could
correspond with a presence of about 30 kg/cm=C2=B2 in the main circuit
(quite normal in my Yak 50 after some time).
I charged again until I heard the relief valve. I know that this
corresponds with 50 kg/cm=C2=B2, but the needle of the main pressure
was again at two o=99clock.
Of course the instrument may be broken, but even stranger: in the same
hangar we have a Yak 52 WITH EXACTLY THE SAME PHENOMENON. In this 52,
the needle of the main pressure is also at about two o=99clock.
Although the pressure on this aircraft must have been relatively normal,
because we could start it without difficulties.
Has anyone seen this before ?
Jan Mevis
Yak 50
RA2005K
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_____
Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations FREE while you
browse.
<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000022
> Start Listening Now!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Years ago I taught college AF, Navy and Marine ROTC cadets how to fly. One
guy in particular was pretty sharp and wound up instructing on T-38's. He
was killed in short order by a student who stalled and snapped the aircraft
in the pattern. I gave another guy a BFR about a year ago who had also
instructed on T-38's. Had some pretty good stories.
I'm thoroughly convinced that lots of practice flying slow in different
configurations/attitudes is the best way to learn how an airplane will
behave in those situations you'd rather avoid. Sensitizes the hind quarters
and earballs, encourages proper movement of hands and feet. It won't
prevent the diversion induced unexpected tho it makes folks more aware of
the possibilities and consequences so more likely to practice avoidance.
Doing spins is fun and instructive, too, in the right airplane, but in and
of themselves don't really expose folks (usually) to the kinds of situations
that lead to the unexpected. -52's are very docile aircraft, usually, but I
m not going to spin one. I'll take the word of folks like Richard Goode and
the unfortunate experiences of those who've been killed in them (including a
friend of mine) to heart. Learning at least basic aerobatics is good, too.
Opens the envelope. We are so fortunate that these airplanes became
available when they did and at reasonable prices so standard issue
folks/aging boomers could join up to do the kind of flying the airplanes
were built to do. Not readily available elsewhere on the civilian market.
T-34's, T-6's, T-28's etc are a bit pricey for most of us. Glad to see that
others, RV's etc have joined in the fun.
BTW, there is a video on U-Tube of a de Havilland Mosquito doing a fly by
that winds up in a half-assed pitch up to a half roll, inverted stall/spin,
flat spin, spin reversal and crash. No apparent power reduction. Almost
looks intentional and almost recovered. Not pretty. I presume the pilot
was an otherwise experienced and sharp sort.
The -52 spin article is worth making more widely available--why don't you to
post to the list? In fact I think I'll post this whole discussion.
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
Me neither. Recognizing and breaking it before it develops is my intention
and plan. You can learn to recognize it by going out an flying the aircraft
on the edge of the stall in clean and dirty configurations. Ive seen more
than once the results of an accelerated stall/ spin on base final in the
T-38 and F-5. Both do not like slow, hi angle of attach whether it be pitch
or bank, and cross control. She snap roll into a spin in a heart beat in the
dirty configuration. I expect the same from our trainers too. The higher you
climb up the curve of the graft, the more likely to be rewarded with and
unpleasant reward.
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Spins
Haven't flown a -50, but -52's are very sweet handling and docile airplanes,
tho not quite as docile as a Nanchang. Nevertheless, I have no desire or
intentions of ever flat spinning one.
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
No the spin study came from the Univ of Tenn. It is posted on Dennis
Savareses website. www.yakworld.com I also heard about it from Sergie. How
he knew about it, I do not remembers since that conversation took place
about 7 or 8 years ago.
The YAK does a great job of talking to you before she breaks and can prevent
it by quickly neutralizing the controls and decreasing the AOA. At least
that has been my experience to date. I have not taken her up and done dirty
breaks with her. Guess I need to do that.
Fly safe.
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: Spins
Interesting. Did you get that from the RPA web site?
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
Thanks Jerry. Im still lurking and watching with interest some of the
responses. Some are taking way too much personal and not considering that
there is a lot to be learned from this unfortunate accident that was totally
preventable. But in the military, that is what we do, analyze the mistakes
of the incident or accident pilot or pilots at each quarterly safety meeting
There is always time for improvement in what we do or suffer the
consequences of the mistakes. We are not at war and we are not trying to
recover for sortie re-armament/regeneration. There is nothing wrong with
going around if the runway cannot be lined up without dangerous over
correction.
My heart and prayers go out to these pilots and their families. The sad
thing is this was preventable Im sure. Guess Im being prejudge mental
before the NTSB finishes its yearlong investigation. On AD, it takes 30 days
to arrive at an answer.
As for the use of power to recover, I agree but be sure to decrease the AOA
along with avoiding cross control during the recovery if low and slow. I
will enclose the spin study done a Vandy on the YAK-52. Not sure how it
stacks up for the CJ since I have never flown one.
Fly safe,
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Spins
Hi Doc--
Glad to see you're still lurking. And thanks. Some interesting posts about
using power for sharper recovery etc--probably way above the pay grade of
most of us, but good info. Just don't try it at home without proper parental
supervision, eh?
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: Spins
Jerry,
Well said. In your last post.
Doc
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I was fortunate to own a half share in a Yak 52 and had some very good
aerobatic guys help sharpen my aero's.
Please let me say that I do not consider myself as a know-all pilot dude,
and want to simply add and share my experience re spins and a 52.
To accidentally get into a flat spin, and in particular, a inverted
accelerating flat spin was a situation that I never wanted to find myself
in.
So what if screwed up and fell off the top of a stall turn and ended up in a
inverted spin.
I decided to speak to a guy here in Australia that runs a school teaching
aerobatics and emergency recovery techniques from unusual attitudes.
We spent one whole evening discussing stalls of all forms and flight
envelopes and so on. What happens when we lose the relative air and at what
angle and so on.
We also explored the theory of the Beggs Meuller spin recovery techniques.
There were about 12 of us that attended that evening and it was worth every
single cent.
So to the practical side the next day. I was asked what I was particularly
interested in doing and expressed my interest in flat spin recovery
including accelerating inverted flat spin.
Up we went and the guy had a play with the 52 and then asked me to
demonstrate a few various aerobatic maneuvers including a spin to the left
and a spin to the right.
We then climbed to about 6500 over the gulf and the man put the 52 into a
inverted spin and demonstrated the B&M recovery technique.
Back to 6500 and I was asked to recover the 52 from a accelerating inverted
spin applying the B&M recovery technique.
I had to do that a number of times and then applying the same techniques,
recover from various nasty spins.
Please believe me, I have no intentions or desire to perform these maneuvers
at any stage, and undertook this instruction so as gain a better
understanding and to be able to hopefully help myself should I ever
advertently get into trouble.
Many of us where skeptical of the Beggs Meuller spin recovery techniques.
Unfounded skepticism as it works for a conventional type of aircraft every
time.
It worked for the 52, CJ6, Pitts, RV6 and I think for the Chipmunk that was
also there.
Please remember. Height is safety.
At 4000 ft and 90 knots we increased the power, increased the angle of bank
and went into a steep turn and pulled backstick and it let go rather
viciously.
We did this at circuit speed with it all hanging out and let the speed drop
off a tad, pulled a little too much backstick whilst in a bank and ended up
in strife.
Had that been at circuit height, we would have been in deep trouble.
Much like pulling too much backstick on the top of a loop, it will flick.
Some of this is common knowledge, but it sure brings one back to earth when
someone demonstrates this and what happens when we lose the relative air, in
any situation.
Thanks and cheers,
Chris Wise.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Spins
Years ago I taught college AF, Navy and Marine ROTC cadets how to fly. One
guy in particular was pretty sharp and wound up instructing on T-38's. He
was killed in short order by a student who stalled and snapped the aircraft
in the pattern. I gave another guy a BFR about a year ago who had also
instructed on T-38's. Had some pretty good stories.
I'm thoroughly convinced that lots of practice flying slow in different
configurations/attitudes is the best way to learn how an airplane will
behave in those situations you'd rather avoid. Sensitizes the hind quarters
and earballs, encourages proper movement of hands and feet. It won't
prevent the diversion induced unexpected tho it makes folks more aware of
the possibilities and consequences so more likely to practice avoidance.
Doing spins is fun and instructive, too, in the right airplane, but in and
of themselves don't really expose folks (usually) to the kinds of situations
that lead to the unexpected. -52's are very docile aircraft, usually, but I
m not going to spin one. I'll take the word of folks like Richard Goode and
the unfortunate experiences of those who've been killed in them (including a
friend of mine) to heart. Learning at least basic aerobatics is good, too.
Opens the envelope. We are so fortunate that these airplanes became
available when they did and at reasonable prices so standard issue
folks/aging boomers could join up to do the kind of flying the airplanes
were built to do. Not readily available elsewhere on the civilian market.
T-34's, T-6's, T-28's etc are a bit pricey for most of us. Glad to see that
others, RV's etc have joined in the fun.
BTW, there is a video on U-Tube of a de Havilland Mosquito doing a fly by
that winds up in a half-assed pitch up to a half roll, inverted stall/spin,
flat spin, spin reversal and crash. No apparent power reduction. Almost
looks intentional and almost recovered. Not pretty. I presume the pilot
was an otherwise experienced and sharp sort.
The -52 spin article is worth making more widely available--why don't you to
post to the list? In fact I think I'll post this whole discussion.
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
Me neither. Recognizing and breaking it before it develops is my intention
and plan. You can learn to recognize it by going out an flying the aircraft
on the edge of the stall in clean and dirty configurations. I've seen more
than once the results of an accelerated stall/ spin on base final in the
T-38 and F-5. Both do not like slow, hi angle of attach whether it be pitch
or bank, and cross control. She snap roll into a spin in a heart beat in the
dirty configuration. I expect the same from our trainers too. The higher you
climb up the curve of the graft, the more likely to be rewarded with and
unpleasant reward.
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Spins
Haven't flown a -50, but -52's are very sweet handling and docile airplanes,
tho not quite as docile as a Nanchang. Nevertheless, I have no desire or
intentions of ever flat spinning one.
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
No the spin study came from the Univ of Tenn. It is posted on Dennis
Savarese's website. www.yakworld.com I also heard about it from Sergie. How
he knew about it, I do not remembers since that conversation took place
about 7 or 8 years ago.
The YAK does a great job of talking to you before she breaks and can prevent
it by quickly neutralizing the controls and decreasing the AOA. At least
that has been my experience to date. I have not taken her up and done dirty
breaks with her. Guess I need to do that.
Fly safe.
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: Spins
Interesting. Did you get that from the RPA web site?
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: RE: Spins
Thanks Jerry. I'm still lurking and watching with interest some of the
responses. Some are taking way too much personal and not considering that
there is a lot to be learned from this unfortunate accident that was totally
preventable. But in the military, that is what we do, analyze the mistakes
of the incident or accident pilot or pilots at each quarterly safety meeting
There is always time for improvement in what we do or suffer the
consequences of the mistakes. We are not at war and we are not trying to
recover for sortie re-armament/regeneration. There is nothing wrong with
going around if the runway cannot be lined up without dangerous over
correction.
My heart and prayers go out to these pilots and their families. The sad
thing is this was preventable I'm sure. Guess I'm being prejudge mental
before the NTSB finishes its yearlong investigation. On AD, it takes 30 days
to arrive at an answer.
As for the use of power to recover, I agree but be sure to decrease the AOA
along with avoiding cross control during the recovery if low and slow. I
will enclose the spin study done a Vandy on the YAK-52. Not sure how it
stacks up for the CJ since I have never flown one.
Fly safe,
Doc
From: Jerry Painter [mailto:wild.blue@verizon.net]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: Spins
Hi Doc--
Glad to see you're still lurking. And thanks. Some interesting posts about
using power for sharper recovery etc--probably way above the pay grade of
most of us, but good info. Just don't try it at home without proper parental
supervision, eh?
JP
-------Original Message-------
From: Roger Kemp MD
Subject: Spins
Jerry,
Well said. In your last post.
Doc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG.
12:00 AM
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|