Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:11 AM - Strut tool (skidmk)
2. 11:11 AM - Re: Blackwell Exhaust (Craig Winkelmann)
3. 11:13 AM - Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (Craig Winkelmann)
4. 12:52 PM - Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (Jan Mevis)
5. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Blackwell Exhaust (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 02:44 PM - Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 03:09 PM - POSTING GLITCH (Digital Sig) (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 03:09 PM - Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 03:18 PM - Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
10. 03:50 PM - Hydro lock (Jerry Painter)
11. 04:03 PM - Re: Gauges (Sonic1)
12. 04:06 PM - Re: Hydro lock (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
13. 04:21 PM - Re: Hydro lock (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
14. 04:38 PM - Re: Hydro lock (vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
15. 05:15 PM - Re:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas (Frank Stelwagon)
16. 05:25 PM - Re: Re:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
17. 06:03 PM - Re: Re:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
18. 06:49 PM - Re: YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas (Craig Winkelmann)
19. 06:49 PM - Re: Hydro lock (Craig Winkelmann)
20. 11:11 PM - Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas (Jan Mevis)
Message 1
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Hi all,,, bought a strut tool from Doug last year to service the struts on my chang.
This is the factory tool and I can't find directions on how to use? Is
anyone familiar with this tool? It has the gauge for the nitrogen, and then
has 4 "inlets,outlets" for air hoses etc.
thanks
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229586#229586
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| Subject: | Re: Blackwell Exhaust |
Are there considerations for having exhaust heat a) close to the firewall, b) exiting
onto paint, etc. I can't imagine this is a good thing.
Dennis: if the engine is on the compression stroke, both valves are closed. So,
on pull through, if oil were pulled in via the exhaust valve, wouldn't it get
pushed out on the next phase of the cycle...intake.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229585#229585
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| Subject: | Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL without the lead.
So, what are the implications for our engines regarding valves, valve seats and
valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
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| Subject: | Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
This is probably not a problem. In the engine books of the new engines
(M14R) the use of mogas is explicitly allowed:
"Gasolines as per US Standards ASTM-D4814, European Standards EN 228". For
the record, these books are in English, EXCEPT Chapter 15, par 3 , the
"Acceptance Statement" is still in Russian.
If it's allowed for such a supercharged engine, then I suppose it's OK for
the M14P also.
Jan Mevis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Winkelmann
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 20:13
Subject: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL without the
lead. So, what are the implications for our engines regarding valves, valve
seats and valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
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| Subject: | Re: Blackwell Exhaust |
Oil will not get pulled in via the exhaust valve. The intake stroke is
suction. So oil can not get "pushed" out. However, if one feels the
prop stop caused by a hydraulic lock, if you move the prop backwards and
allow the intake valve to open on the locked cylinder (remember intake
comes before compression), it can let the oil run out into the lower
intake tubes which hopefully have the intake drain kit installed or just
plugs installed in the intake tubes. Otherwise you really should pull
the rear spark plugs on the lower cylinders to clear the lock.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Winkelmann
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Blackwell Exhaust
Are there considerations for having exhaust heat a) close to the
firewall, b) exiting onto paint, etc. I can't imagine this is a good
thing.
Dennis: if the engine is on the compression stroke, both valves are
closed. So, on pull through, if oil were pulled in via the exhaust
valve, wouldn't it get pushed out on the next phase of the
cycle...intake.
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229585#229585
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| Subject: | Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
Jan... With the valves, octane is not really the only issue. The lead
acts
as a lubricant. Without hardened valve seats, you will erode a standard
seat over time in any engine that was designed to use lead which
subsequently is operated without it. I have seen this first hand in
many a
small block Chevy. There is no question that without any lead content
at
all, there will be valve seat erosion in any engine without hardened
valve
seats. The good side of the story is that it really does not take much
lead
at all to accomplish the goal. FAR FAR less than what is in 100LL.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
This is probably not a problem. In the engine books of the new engines
(M14R) the use of mogas is explicitly allowed:
"Gasolines as per US Standards ASTM-D4814, European Standards EN 228".
For the record, these books are in English, EXCEPT Chapter 15, par 3 ,
the "Acceptance Statement" is still in Russian.
If it's allowed for such a supercharged engine, then I suppose it's OK
for the M14P also.
Jan Mevis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 20:13
Subject: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL without the
lead. So, what are the implications for our engines regarding valves,
valve seats and valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
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| Subject: | POSTING GLITCH (Digital Sig) |
For any YAK List or Matronics List user who operates from any Govt.
site. (.mil or .gov, etc)
The Government has recently turned on the automatic inclusion of a
digital certificate signature for every email message sent from a govt.
site. The Matronics Server does not accept these digital signatures
(file type "smime.p7s") and will reject your whole message as sent.
The way around this in OUTLOOK is to use OPTIONS then SECURITY SETTINGS
to deselect the digital signature option.
Digital Signatures are becoming more and more common, so this will apply
to a lot of other folks down the road as well until Matt gets this
ironed out.
Mark Bitterlich
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
In a message dated 2/10/2009 5:45:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
And there is always MMO!
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Jan... With the valves, octane is not really the only issue. The lead
acts
as a lubricant. Without hardened valve seats, you will erode a standard
seat over time in any engine that was designed to use lead which
subsequently is operated without it. I have seen this first hand in
many a
small block Chevy. There is no question that without any lead content
at
all, there will be valve seat erosion in any engine without hardened
valve
seats. The good side of the story is that it really does not take much
lead
at all to accomplish the goal. FAR FAR less than what is in 100LL.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
This is probably not a problem. In the engine books of the new engines
(M14R) the use of mogas is explicitly allowed:
"Gasolines as per US Standards ASTM-D4814, European Standards EN 228".
For the record, these books are in English, EXCEPT Chapter 15, par 3 ,
the "Acceptance Statement" is still in Russian.
If it's allowed for such a supercharged engine, then I suppose it's OK
for the M14P also.
Jan Mevis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 20:13
Subject: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL without the
lead. So, what are the implications for our engines regarding valves,
valve seats and valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
As much as I love MMO,... Even the smell... I am afraid it is not a lead
substitute. Even though yes, I know your tongue was in your cheek when
you said that! :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
In a message dated 2/10/2009 5:45:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
mark.bitterlich@navy.mil writes:
And there is always MMO!
Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Jan... With the valves, octane is not really the only issue.
The lead
acts
as a lubricant. Without hardened valve seats, you will erode a
standard
seat over time in any engine that was designed to use lead which
subsequently is operated without it. I have seen this first
hand in
many a
small block Chevy. There is no question that without any lead
content
at
all, there will be valve seat erosion in any engine without
hardened
valve
seats. The good side of the story is that it really does not
take much
lead
at all to accomplish the goal. FAR FAR less than what is in
100LL.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan
Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:51 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
<jan.mevis@informavia.be>
This is probably not a problem. In the engine books of the new
engines
(M14R) the use of mogas is explicitly allowed:
"Gasolines as per US Standards ASTM-D4814, European Standards EN
228".
For the record, these books are in English, EXCEPT Chapter 15,
par 3 ,
the "Acceptance Statement" is still in Russian.
If it's allowed for such a supercharged engine, then I suppose
it's OK
for the M14P also.
Jan Mevis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 20:13
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
<capav8r@gmail.com>
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL
without the
lead. So, what are the implications for our engines regarding
valves,
valve seats and valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
________________________________
A Good Credit Score is
7001216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc
668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=febemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
Message 10
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Time: 01:56:39 PM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Blackwell Exhaust
All true Nigel. But what happens if the piston is already on the
Compression stroke while pulling the prop through and there is
Sufficient oil collected in the combustion chamber when the piston gets
To close to TDC? Then it's too late for an opening exhaust valve to be
Of any benefit.
Dennis
Right you are, Dennis. "Clean" kits are no cure-all, either. If you feel
resistance, stop, pull plugs and drains. Surprising how much will sometimes
be in a cylinder, clean kit or not. DO NOT try to clear the cylinder by
pulling the prop backward--only pushes the oil into the intake manifold so
it gets a second opportunity to bend your rods or blow a jug off. Doubly so
with tailwheels.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 11
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Barry,
When you say "resceeened in English", do you mean the Chinese, the units, or both?
For example, is the VSI in feet not meters?
Thanks,
Jeff.
barryhancock wrote:
> Gang,
>
> We have nearly all gauges including fuel resceeened in English and
> inspected in stock. $175 with exchange.
>
> Please contact me off list if interested.
>
> Barry Hancock
> Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
> (949) 300-5510 cell
> www.worldwidewarbirds.com
>
> Please excuse brevity and typos. Sent from my iPhone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229634#229634
Message 12
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We stock both electric and manual oil tank shut off valves for radials.? We have
never had oil in a cylinder since installing them on several aircraft.? But
that does not mean that we don't pull it through!? The oil tank shut off valve
will pretty much eliminate oil in the cylinders and hence hydraulic lock. ?
My CJ never has more than two ounces in the exhaust cans even after sitting for
weeks.? Smartest thing you can do is install a shut off valve.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Vector Warbirds USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Hydro lock
Time: 01:56:39 PM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Blackwell Exhaust
All true Nigel. But what happens if the piston is already on the
Compression stroke while pulling the prop through and there is
Sufficient oil collected in the combustion chamber when the piston gets
To close to TDC? Then it's too late for an opening exhaust valve to be
Of any benefit.
Dennis
Right you are, Dennis. "Clean" kits are no cure-all, either. If you feel
resistance, stop, pull plugs and drains. Surprising how much will sometimes
be in a cylinder, clean kit or not. DO NOT try to clear the cylinder by
pulling the prop backward--only pushes the oil into the intake manifold so
it gets a second opportunity to bend your rods or blow a jug off. Doubly so
with tailwheels.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 13
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I've seen several M-14's with these type valves installed and I could
not agree more. Sergei Boriak had one on his SU-31, and it worked
flawlessly.
Do you happen to sell a KIT? The problem I usually have come across is
the hassle of interfacing an American made valve with the Russian hoses.
Do you sell adapters, etc.,etc?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Hydro lock
We stock both electric and manual oil tank shut off valves for radials.
We have never had oil in a cylinder since installing them on several
aircraft. But that does not mean that we don't pull it through! The
oil tank shut off valve will pretty much eliminate oil in the cylinders
and hence hydraulic lock. My CJ never has more than two ounces in the
exhaust cans even after sitting for weeks. Smartest thing you can do is
install a shut off valve.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Vector Warbirds USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Hydro lock
Time: 01:56:39 PM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Blackwell Exhaust
All true Nigel. But what happens if the piston is already on the
Compression stroke while pulling the prop through and there is
Sufficient oil collected in the combustion chamber when the piston gets
To close to TDC? Then it's too late for an opening exhaust valve to be
Of any benefit.
Dennis
Right you are, Dennis. "Clean" kits are no cure-all, either. If you
feel
resistance, stop, pull plugs and drains. Surprising how much will
sometimes
be in a cylinder, clean kit or not. DO NOT try to clear the cylinder
by
pulling the prop backward--only pushes the oil into the intake manifold
so
it gets a second opportunity to bend your rods or blow a jug off.
Doubly so
with tailwheels.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 14
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Yes we can make up kits to fit anything, but just for your information the AN-12
303 hose fitting will fit the stock oil hoses and vise versa.? We usually put
the stock metric oil hose fitting on AN 303 hose and use a AN-12 on the other
end to interface with the valve since AN fittings are easier to come by than
metric.? In other words there is no problem either way.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 5:20 pm
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Hydro lock
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
I've seen several M-14's with these type valves installed and I could
not agree more. Sergei Boriak had one on his SU-31, and it worked
flawlessly.
Do you happen to sell a KIT? The problem I usually have come across is
the hassle of interfacing an American made valve with the Russian hoses.
Do you sell adapters, etc.,etc?
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Hydro lock
We stock both electric and manual oil tank shut off valves for radials.
We have never had oil in a cylinder since installing them on several
aircraft. But that does not mean that we don't pull it through! The
oil tank shut off valve will pretty much eliminate oil in the cylinders
and hence hydraulic lock. My CJ never has more than two ounces in the
exhaust cans even after sitting for weeks. Smartest thing you can do is
install a shut off valve.
Gary 'Bunndini' Bunn
Vector Warbirds USA
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: Yak-List: Hydro lock
Time: 01:56:39 PM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Blackwell Exhaust
All true Nigel. But what happens if the piston is already on the
Compression stroke while pulling the prop through and there is
Sufficient oil collected in the combustion chamber when the piston gets
To close to TDC? Then it's too late for an opening exhaust valve to be
Of any benefit.
Dennis
Right you are, Dennis. "Clean" kits are no cure-all, either. If you
feel
resistance, stop, pull plugs and drains. Surprising how much will
sometimes
be in a cylinder, clean kit or not. DO NOT try to clear the cylinder
by
pulling the prop backward--only pushes the oil into the intake manifold
so
it gets a second opportunity to bend your rods or blow a jug off.
Doubly so
with tailwheels.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
JP@FlyWBA.com
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas |
The Chinese engines were rated for 70 octane fuel, that was probably
what we call White Gas. I don't think there was any lead in it at 70
octane. So the Chinese engines will probably be fine on the unleaded
gas.
Frank N23021
Message 16
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| Subject: | RE:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas |
Concur, how about if we test that premise on yours first?
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Stelwagon
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RE:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas
The Chinese engines were rated for 70 octane fuel, that was probably
what we call White Gas. I don't think there was any lead in it at 70
octane. So the Chinese engines will probably be fine on the unleaded
gas.
Frank N23021
Message 17
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| Subject: | RE:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas |
Sorry Frank, I was just messing with you.
Here's the deal. It does not matter if the gas is white, green, or yellow.. (Well..
Green would sure be nice, .. Purple even better) but anyway... If it does
not have any lead in it, then you need to have hardened valve seats. Period.
The question then becomes, "do any of our engines already have hardened valve
seats"? I'm not really sure.. Does anyone know FOR SURE? I have looked at
them, and they look stock to me. It is also highly unlikely that they would
have them, since they were never introduced into any car engine until they were
absolutely necessary to have.
As I said, all you have to do is to run a little bit of leaded fuel every once
in awhile to prevent valve erosion. You can run pure unleaded for quite awhile
too as long as you just run leaded fuel every couple of tanks fills and even
then it does not have to be "pure" unleaded... Even a 50/50 mix every once in
awhile will work.
But if you run unleaded fuel continuously in an engine with valve seats that are
not hardened, you WILL pound those valves right into their seats. It does not
happen overnight. It takes time. But it WILL happen. Everyone tends to think
that the lead in fuel was there only for the octane. This is partially correct,
but it was also there for the valves.
If any of our engines were indeed designed to run on unleaded fuel, they WILL have
hardened seats. So if someone comes up and says that our engines have hardened
valve seats, then there are no worries at all. By the way, these kind of
seats can be retrofitted, so it is not like it is a MAJOR big deal.
Respectfully, this is not an opinion, this is hard cold physics.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
P.s. If you want more, read below. This was written about car engines.... But
fuel is fuel, and a valve is a valve.
How did Valve Seat Recession come about?
Most people realize that back in the days when we ran leaded fuel in our cars,
the lead was great at improving combustion and raising octane. This high-octane
fuel is what enabled cars to run much higher compression ratios than cars do
today. Another property of that fuel that contributed to the health of the older
motors was that the lead oxides that were formed during combustion would settle
on the valve seats and act as a cushion protecting the seats from erosion.
Once people realized the harmful effects of lead on the environment however, pressure
caused leaded fuel to be phased out. In response to this, car manufacturers
lowered compression ratios and started using hardened valve seats that did
not require the lubricating properties of lead.
That's fine for newer cars, but those that owned cars that were originally designed
to run on leaded fuel (i.e. cars that used non-hardened exhaust valve seats)
needed to take certain precautions to prevent valve seat recession. Car enthusiasts
soon learned that unleaded fuel required the use of hardened valve seats
on the exhaust valves, and that without some precautions, their cars would
exhibit valve seat recession.
Exactly what is Valve Seat Recession and what causes it?
Simply, VSR is the erosion of the valve seat causing the valve to slowly sink deeper
and deeper into its seat. Without the protective lead coating or hardened
inserts on the exhaust valve seats, the intense heat (650C or 1200F) and the
constant hammering effect of the valves opening and closing causes iron deposits
from the valve seat to become micro-welded to the valve edge as it closes.
When the valve opens again, some small amount of metal from the seat will be
ripped from that seat. Left alone, this continual tearing away of metal particles
will result in the exhaust valve digging a deeper and deeper hole for itself
into the head. Eventually, the engine will break down and require to be overhauled.
VSR is only a problem for the exhaust valve seats since they run at much
higher temperatures than the intake valves.
If my heads exhibit VSR how fast can my valve seats erode if I ignore the issue?
Without hardened seats or some lubricant in the fuel, they can erode quickly under
the right conditions! The two worst contributors to this problem are prolonged
high engine speeds, and high exhaust gas temperatures. If you baby your engine,
it's likely that you may never experience the problem. To give you a better
idea of just how fast this can occur, independent testing has shown that
for some types of engines, exhaust valve seats can recede by as much as 0.020"
when run continuously under both high load and high RPMs for 48 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Stelwagon
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Yak-List: RE:YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas
The Chinese engines were rated for 70 octane fuel, that was probably what we call
White Gas. I don't think there was any lead in it at 70 octane. So the Chinese
engines will probably be fine on the unleaded gas.
Frank N23021
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| Subject: | Re: YAK- LIST: 94 Octane unleaded avgas |
> Without hardened seats or some lubricant in the fuel, they can erode quickly
under the right conditions! The two worst contributors to this problem are prolonged
high engine speeds, and high exhaust gas temperatures.
Mark....this is from the article you posted....isn't this how we run aircraft engines????
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229660#229660
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How much are they??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229661#229661
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| Subject: | Future 94 octane unleaded avgas |
Of course you're right. But the Russians take into account the rather small
lifetime of the engine. 500 TBO for a M14P, 300 hours for a M14PF, 100 hours
for a M14R
Jan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich, Mark G
CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 23:44
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Jan... With the valves, octane is not really the only issue. The lead
acts
as a lubricant. Without hardened valve seats, you will erode a standard
seat over time in any engine that was designed to use lead which
subsequently is operated without it. I have seen this first hand in
many a
small block Chevy. There is no question that without any lead content
at
all, there will be valve seat erosion in any engine without hardened
valve
seats. The good side of the story is that it really does not take much
lead
at all to accomplish the goal. FAR FAR less than what is in 100LL.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan Mevis
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
This is probably not a problem. In the engine books of the new engines
(M14R) the use of mogas is explicitly allowed:
"Gasolines as per US Standards ASTM-D4814, European Standards EN 228".
For the record, these books are in English, EXCEPT Chapter 15, par 3 ,
the "Acceptance Statement" is still in Russian.
If it's allowed for such a supercharged engine, then I suppose it's OK
for the M14P also.
Jan Mevis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Winkelmann
Sent: dinsdag 10 februari 2009 20:13
Subject: Yak-List: Future 94 octane unleaded avgas
>From what I read, this may be the next avgas. It is 100LL without the
lead. So, what are the implications for our engines regarding valves,
valve seats and valve seals?
Craig
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229587#229587
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