Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:05 AM - Re: starter woes (Craig Payne)
2. 10:12 AM - Re: starter woes (Yak Pilot)
3. 12:36 PM - Re: starter woes (doug sapp)
4. 03:15 PM - Yak-52 power surge on takeoff (radiopicture)
5. 03:26 PM - Yak-52 electrical accessories (radiopicture)
6. 07:32 PM - Re: starter woes (Dr Andre Katz)
7. 07:47 PM - Re: starter woes (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: starter woes |
Woe to anyone stuck in the boonies! Over the years I have encountered numerous
reasons for not hearing that satisfying "pop" and subsequent swinging of the blades.
And, it happened recently, just before my annual, couldn't wait a few
weeks.
Common causes on stock systems:
- Low air pressure: get more air or hand prop in emergency, use chocks!
- Tight exhaust valve: easy to get around by rotating the prop to another cylinder.
- Stuck starter solenoid valve, due to rust: use thumb lever on valve to actuate,
this takes outside help.
- Low voltage on battery: again the thumb lever will help, but only if the spark
generator works too.
- Leaking air hose: you should be able to hear the leak and isolate the cause.
My recent problems: a small ring of corrosion under the ground terminal ring on
the battery which could not be seen until the connection was removed. Also, at
the VAC show, folks hooked me up with an "air bottle". Yep, 78% of what the
engine normally fires on contains nitrogen, it just doesn't like 100%.
Craig Payne
cpayne@joimail.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: starter woes |
Lots of good suggestions given: =0A1.- Move prop... you did that with no
help. =0A2.- Check air pressure, make sure it is where it should be.- A
ssume you did that too. =0A3.- Check for obvious line leaks (you probably
did that too).- =0A=0ANow some new stuff, assuming this is the stock Rus
sian starter solenoid.- =0AA.- It has a manual level on it... hopefully
.- Some of the later versions do not.=0ASimply stay clear of the prop, an
d pull on the little lever and see if the engine cranks. =0AIf it does proc
eed to step B. =0A=0AB.- Pull the top fitting off the air starter solenoi
d.- This is the opposite end =0Afrom where the cannon plug goes.- Squir
t in as much WD-40 as you can.- Let it sit =0Afor awhile and do that agai
n.- And again.- And again.- I think you get the point. =0ANow try it
again electrically.- This usually fixes it... for a LITTLE while.- Repl
ace=0Ait as soon as possible.- =0A=0AOf course doing all this is easy on
a YAK-50 where you can shut off the main air =0Asupply with a manual valve,
not sure what you have on that 55.- You may have to drain=0Athe whole sy
stem and go from there.-=0A=0AYou say you REPLACED THE STARTER VALVE ITSE
LF?- If that is the case, then ignore all=0Aof the above.- =0A=0ARemove
air line to starter distributor and manually open the valve with the manua
l lever=0Aa few times and you will see if you get good air flow.- Stand B
ACK, because crap will =0Afly everywhere with that line open.=0A- =0AIf a
ll this checks good and you still can not get it to crank, then it may be t
he =0Astarter distributor itself... highly UNLIKELY... and hope to goodness
it is not, because=0Ait is a sorry son of a gun to replace.- DO NOT TRY
IT YOURSELF!- Do not let ANYONE other=0Athan a very qualified person repl
ace that thing!- WHEW.- =0A=0ALastly, if you are stuck someplace... jus
t prop the thing.- It usually starts very =0Aeasily propping it.- =0A
=0ASince your starter vibrator is still good, just bleed all the air out, A
LL THE AIR MIND =0AYOU!!!- Then just set it up for a normal start, and wh
en the guy propping it yells =0Acontact, hit the starter button and when it
fires, turn on the mags as usual.- No need =0Ato ever be stuck anywhere
with this problem.- Doing it all by yourself is pretty tough=0AI admit.
- =0A=0ABest of Luck=0AMark Bitterlich=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________
_______________=0AFrom: Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net>=0ATo: yak-list@mat
ronics.com=0ASent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:26:50 PM=0ASubject: Yak-List: s
tarter woes=0A=0A=0Amy 55m today left me in the middle of nowhere. I have t
he kimball dual solenoid system without a filter, when pressure exceeds 600
psi it dumps the stuff out. I have replaced the old russian starter dual s
ystem with a button that combines the vibrator and the wire to the solenoid
that puts air into the back of the engine. Today for the first time since
I have owned the plane, after sitting for 2 months it started on the first
blade, then of course went to get a burger 30 miles out and sure enough, wi
th 600 psi in the tank, all I get is a bit of hissing at the push button an
d no motion of the prop, I replaced the solenoid (since I have a second one
on board for dumping air wishing that that will make it come home) but no
way, i think that the chances of any repair go down in direct -proportion
of the number of lookers around the airplane. =0Aany ideas?I suspect that
there is gunk in the system. =0Aappreciate any help.=0Astuck in Lancaster t
===============
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: starter woes |
If you have the type of QDF-1 valve which has the lever on it try depresing
that, if it still refuses to stop hissing take off the line going TO the
start sypder on the engione, next, locate the line going TO the QDF-1 start
valve, go the the far end of that line and remove the B nut. Fill
that line(which goes to the QDF1) with WD40. Place a shop towl over the
start spyder end and depress the QDF-1 lever or hit the start button. This
should flush out and crap. If this does not work, replace the QDF-1. Have
them in stock if you need one.
Best,
Doug
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net> wrote:
> my 55m today left me in the middle of nowhere. I have the kimball dual
> solenoid system without a filter, when pressure exceeds 600 psi it dumps the
> stuff out. I have replaced the old russian starter dual system with a button
> that combines the vibrator and the wire to the solenoid that puts air into
> the back of the engine. Today for the first time since I have owned the
> plane, after sitting for 2 months it started on the first blade, then of
> course went to get a burger 30 miles out and sure enough, with 600 psi in
> the tank, all I get is a bit of hissing at the push button and no motion of
> the prop, I replaced the solenoid (since I have a second one on board for
> dumping air wishing that that will make it come home) but no way, i think
> that the chances of any repair go down in direct proportion of the number
> of lookers around the airplane.
> any ideas?I suspect that there is gunk in the system.
> appreciate any help.
> stuck in Lancaster texas (KLNC)
> andres
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 4
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| Subject: | Yak-52 power surge on takeoff |
I have a recently purchased 1993 Yak-52 with very low total time (approximately
20 hours). A mechanic prepared the airplane for ferrying and then ferried it
home for me (over 1000 miles). On the first flight (and each subsequent flight),
there has been a pulsing sort of power surge. During warm-up and run-up everything
is nominal, including fuel pressure (.4 or so). However, several seconds
into the takeoff roll, the surging begins which manifests itself as a variation
between 100% and 97% about once per second or so. The fuel pressure at that
time has dropped to about .2 instead of the normal .4 or .5. Once the power
is reduced (to say, 82%) it all smoothes out.
The first impression was that there was something wrong with the prop or governor.
The prop was greased, seals replaced, oil delivery tube gasket was replaced,
and the governor was bench tested. The problem remained.
We then decided that the problem must be fuel related. All fuel filters are clean.
The fuel tank vents are unobstructed. It has been suggested that if there
is even a tiny leak in the fuel system, that the bubbler can suck in enough air
so that the fuel pump can't keep up with it. I was suspicious of the square
o-ring on the course fuel filter, and it was replaced.
I haven't changed the pressure adjustment on the end of the fuel pump yet. It has
also been suggested that if the carb is somehow improperly adjusted, it could
demand too much fuel and the fuel pump cannot keep up with the demand (say,
above 40 gph). I'm sort of reluctant to start messing with the factory settings
on a plane with such low total time. I suppose there is still some possibility
of a partial fuel line obstruction including a hose flapper or what have you.
Does anyone have any ideas about this? Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235545#235545
Message 5
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| Subject: | Yak-52 electrical accessories |
I have an unmodified Yak-52 to which I'm adding a transponder and ship power cord
for a GPS. I would like to do this as uninvasively as possible. I had considered
disconnecting the ADF from it's breaker-switch and using it to control the
two items I'm adding which would also have their own (smaller) fuses. Is there
an easy place to tap into that circuit? What would I have access to in that
electrical box in above the right rudder pedal? Is there something in there
after the switches or at least after the master? I'm trying to not drill holes
for accessory switches. Thanks for any tips.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235546#235546
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: starter woes |
the rescue party was sent to LNC, this is what I really love about aviation, 5
volunteers 2 airplanes, 80 bucks in new batteries (turned out not needed) and
a round of burgers that I had to buy for all involved returned blackmagic to her
roosting place.
thanks to all suggestions, I learned a lot.
Also 2 great guys in LNC that also went out of their way to help.
We measured the voltage with a voltmeter, show 28 volts, well perhaps volts ok
but amperage bad (been there done that) so we hooked a brand new battery piggy
back and no motion of the prop, only hiss at the rear of the case (somewhere).
Not a valve. Measured capacitance at the kimball electric starter solenoid and
no juice. The culprit was a bad wire from the switch to the solenoid. We found
a hot line outside the circuit that drove the dump solenoid and voila! except
that the prop will turn when the dump switch was energized but the engine
will not start. After emptying the tank once, it doomed on me that the shower
of sparks needed to be activated. So one hand in the dump switch, one in the
primer, the other in the original start button for the vibrator and the mouth
in the throttle to pump got it started. Now it resting with a smile in the hangar
like a queen that she is.
This is whats great about yakking and friends to help.
the 55m has a different system than the cj' I have a valve from the cj and could
not install it in the 55 due to space problems. Single switch no bypass. The
prop turning trick did not work, of course it was electrical.
but I appreciate all tips. I learn every time.
andres
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: starter woes |
Mark;
I have to take exception to one part of your recommended hand start procedure.
You said "when the guy propping it yells contact, hit the starter button ------"
The problem with that is the distinct possibility that you may have just the right
mixture in a cylinder that is at TDC and when you energize the boost coil
with the start button that cylinder will fire, either forward or, possibly, backward.
When the start guy calls contact his hands are on the blade and he expects you
to turn on the magnetos anticipating a start as he is moving backward clear of
the blades.
If you are going to use the boost coil for this purpose the timing is critical.
You must hit the start button after his hands are clear and he is moving away.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Yak Pilot
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: starter woes
Lots of good suggestions given:
1. Move prop... you did that with no help.
2. Check air pressure, make sure it is where it should be. Assume you did that
too.
3. Check for obvious line leaks (you probably did that too).
Now some new stuff, assuming this is the stock Russian starter solenoid.
A. It has a manual level on it... hopefully. Some of the later versions do
not.
Simply stay clear of the prop, and pull on the little lever and see if the engine
cranks.
If it does proceed to step B.
B. Pull the top fitting off the air starter solenoid. This is the opposite
end
from where the cannon plug goes. Squirt in as much WD-40 as you can. Let it
sit
for awhile and do that again. And again. And again. I think you get the point.
Now try it again electrically. This usually fixes it... for a LITTLE while.
Replace
it as soon as possible.
Of course doing all this is easy on a YAK-50 where you can shut off the main
air
supply with a manual valve, not sure what you have on that 55. You may have
to drain
the whole system and go from there.
You say you REPLACED THE STARTER VALVE ITSELF? If that is the case, then ignore
all
of the above.
Remove air line to starter distributor and manually open the valve with the manual
lever
a few times and you will see if you get good air flow. Stand BACK, because crap
will
fly everywhere with that line open.
If all this checks good and you still can not get it to crank, then it may be
the
starter distributor itself... highly UNLIKELY... and hope to goodness it is not,
because
it is a sorry son of a gun to replace. DO NOT TRY IT YOURSELF! Do not let ANYONE
other
than a very qualified person replace that thing! WHEW.
Lastly, if you are stuck someplace... just prop the thing. It usually starts
very
easily propping it.
Since your starter vibrator is still good, just bleed all the air out, ALL THE
AIR MIND
YOU!!! Then just set it up for a normal start, and when the guy propping it
yells
contact, hit the starter button and when it fires, turn on the mags as usual.
No need
to ever be stuck anywhere with this problem. Doing it all by yourself is pretty
tough
I admit.
Best of Luck
Mark Bitterlich
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dr Andre Katz <bu131@swbell.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:26:50 PM
Subject: Yak-List: starter woes
my 55m today left me in the middle of nowhere. I have the kimball dual
solenoid system without a filter, when pressure exceeds 600 psi it dumps the stuff
out. I have replaced the old russian starter dual system with a button that
combines the vibrator and the wire to the solenoid that puts air into the back
of the engine. Today for the first time since I have owned the plane, after
sitting for 2 months it started on the first blade, then of course went to get
a burger 30 miles out and sure enough, with 600 psi in the tank, all I get
is a bit of hissing at the push button and no motion of the prop, I replaced the
solenoid (since I have a second one on board for dumping air wishing that that
will make it come home) but no way, i think that the chances of any repair
go down in direct proportion of the number of lookers around the airplane.
any ideas?I suspect that there is gunk in the system.
appreciate any help.
stuck in Lancaster texas (KLNC)
andres
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