Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:58 AM - Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI (marklevy)
2. 08:16 AM - Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI (barryhancock)
3. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI (Roger Kemp MD)
4. 11:09 AM - Re: Shower of Sparks; What is it? (Yak Pilot)
5. 11:09 AM - Re: Shower of Sparks lesson (LONG) (Yak Pilot)
6. 12:12 PM - Yakkers near LHR (mikspin)
7. 03:20 PM - Re: Shower of Sparks lesson (LONG) (Yak Pilot)
8. 09:14 PM - Re: Shower of Sparks; What is it? (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI |
Thanks for the feedback guys. The reason I'm looking at the new RCA2600 (which
is, incidentally, fully solid state)is as a replacement for my Russian horizon
which is becoming unreliable.
I need my replacement ADI to reliably survive continuous acro and be reliable enough
for a climb through/descent below cloud to VFR conditions before/after an
airshow: this is NOT for serious IFR.
I looked at the TRuTrak, but was put off by its use of processed vert speed for
pitch information, which, I would have thought would make it very 'twitchy' for
stable flight, as I may have up to 4 aircraft formating on me during a climb
thru cloud.
So the question is: is the TT reasonably pitch stable, and can it handle plenty
of acro and still be stable afterwards.
I know there are a bunch of nice EFIS boxes out there, but I want to retain the
a/c's vintage character panel.
Appreciate the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236509#236509
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| Subject: | Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI |
Mark,
Looks like a cool instrument. I'd contact the mfgr. My experience is that most
EFIS units will not keep up with acro (not intended to) but the good ones I've
flown behind will reset well. Seems like it's a preference thing...for that
money you can get a Dynon. I don't know how much of the vintage look you'll
retain with the Allen being a screen, but that's your call. Think hard about
the Dynon....it's a great unit, good support, and much more capable. It keeps
up with the roll rate of an L-39 and only after some serious maneuvering does
it get "lost" at all.
Hope this helps,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236525#236525
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI |
Mark,
Look at Dynon D10 A also. I have taken my 50 IFR with that unit. It is
stable through an entire acro routine especially with the remote gyro
installed. It fits where the RU ADI is now quite nicely. You will have to
make a back plate to mount it up to since it is filling a approximate 5
inch to with a 3 1/2 in instrument body. The EFIS part covers the ADI hole
completely when mounted. Basicly, it is 9 instruments in one. I keep all of
my other "vintage" YAK instruments in the panel and use them. I did couple
it to my Garmin 430 for the HIS function. Since I am using the D10A unit,
you have to toggle between the HUD display and the HSI. The but is that on
the heading tape at the top of the screen it includes the GPS heading bug
that you programmed in with the GPS heading track on the Garmin. It will
work with the 430, SL 30 (which give you ILS function too). With the next
software upgrade, they will give you the ILS ladder on the HUD screen as
well as on the HSI screen where it is now. This same unit with the 5.0
software upgrade with drive their 3 axis autopilot.
As you can tell I have been well pleased with my unit(s). Talk to Dave
McGirt also. He like I had some teething issues that were worked out by
installing the remote gyro. After that it has been pretty flawless. It is
not obtrusive in the panel and truthfully, when the ADI in my 52 goes TU,
I'll put one in it too. That is unless Emperor Obama drives us all broke.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of marklevy
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 7:57 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: RC Allen RCA2600 ADI
Thanks for the feedback guys. The reason I'm looking at the new RCA2600
(which is, incidentally, fully solid state)is as a replacement for my
Russian horizon which is becoming unreliable.
I need my replacement ADI to reliably survive continuous acro and be
reliable enough for a climb through/descent below cloud to VFR conditions
before/after an airshow: this is NOT for serious IFR.
I looked at the TRuTrak, but was put off by its use of processed vert speed
for pitch information, which, I would have thought would make it very
'twitchy' for stable flight, as I may have up to 4 aircraft formating on me
during a climb thru cloud.
So the question is: is the TT reasonably pitch stable, and can it handle
plenty of acro and still be stable afterwards.
I know there are a bunch of nice EFIS boxes out there, but I want to retain
the a/c's vintage character panel.
Appreciate the help.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236509#236509
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Shower of Sparks; What is it? |
Exactly Jan.... in my early days Cycles per Second was abbreviated as-"CP
S".- Made sense to me.- Somewhere along the way the powers that be deci
ded that in order to honor the person who invented AC, they would call CPS
"Hertz" instead.-- I guess that is also use the termt "Morse" code, but
I hate it when I learn one thing and then suddenly the rules change and it
has a whole new name!- :-)--- Of course I also think tubes worked
a hell of a lot better than transistors .- =0A=0AMark=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jan Mevis <jan.mevis@informavia
.be>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:01:25 PM
=0ASubject: RE: Yak-List: Shower of Sparks; What is it?=0A=0A--> Yak-List m
essage posted by: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>=0A=0AI agree with y
our analysis. =0A=0ABut cycles per second IS Hertz, as you know. What's in
a name ...=0A=0AJan=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-yak-list-
server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Beha
lf Of Bitterlich, Mark G=0ACIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E=0ASent: vrijda
g 27 maart 2009 21:27=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Yak-List:
rlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point,=0AMALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mi
l>=0A=0AI am going to add to and simplify this whole posting to a few less
=0Awords.- =0A=0AIn my opinion any system that uses a door bell buzzer de
vice to open and=0Aclose an external point set, that in turn causes a squar
e wave to be fed=0Ato an ignition coil is a "Shower of Sparks" system.- I
t is called that=0Abecause, it creates a literal "shower of sparks".- =0A
=0ASome shower of spark systems use a transformer outside of the mag=0Aitse
lf.- Some others use the internal mag coil to accomplish the same=0Aend.
- Either way, both methods use a buzzer coil arrangement to create=0Athe
square wave that takes battery voltage, converts it to a square=0Awave, fee
ds it to a transformer, steps up the voltage and creates a=0Acontinuous str
eam of high voltage that is distributed to the spark plugs=0Aand allows the
m to fire continuously as the rotor spins and makes=0Acontact with the cap
contacts.- - - =0A=0AThe Yak and CJ's use a system where the buzzer,
and the transformer are=0Aexternal to the mag.- I guess I just can't see
why the name of the=0Asystem concept should be changed depending on whether
the "coil" is=0Ainside, or outside the mag.- But I never agreed to chang
ing cycles per=0Asecond to Hertz either!- :-) =0A=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-
=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.c
om=0A[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
=0AMark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E=0ASent: Friday, March 27, 2009
3:42 PM=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Yak-List: Shower of Spa
CIV Det Cherry =0A--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>=0A=0A
=0AWalt, =0A=0AHere is how I look at it, and of course everyone is welcome
to have=0Atheir own opinion on the matter.- =0A=0AMost aircraft engines u
se mags.- Magnetos do not work real well at low=0ARPM, so starting an eng
ine with them becomes a problem because starters=0Ado not usually spin them
fast enough to provide enough spark energy.- =0A=0ABecause of that, two
systems have been devised to provide for enough=0Aenergy to start a mag equ
ipped engine. =0A=0A1.- Impulse couplers. =0A2.- Shower of spark system
s.- =0A=0AIt appears you want to break down the "shower of sparks" term i
nto two=0Asub-categories depending on where the secondary portion of the=0A
transformer is located.- If the primary and secondary of the transformer
=0Aare in the same box, you call it a "boost coil" system.- If the=0Aseco
ndary is in the mags, it is called a "shower of sparks" system.- If=0AI a
m correct in that this is your view, that's fine.... But I don't see=0Ait t
hat way.- Just happens to be my personal opinion on the matter.- But=0A
for the sake of discussion, I would appreciate a reference to the use of=0A
the term "boost coil".- =0A=0ATo explain:- I personally consider any ig
nition system that uses the=0Abasic design of a doorbell buzzer to create a
square wave that then=0Afeeds a transformer can be properly referred to as
a "shower of sparks"=0Asystem.- =0A=0ARegardless of where the primary or
secondary of the transformer (in=0Aproper terms: The Ignition Coil) is loc
ated, the overall design concept=0Aremains identical.- A "doorbell buzzer
" (per se) is used to rapidly and=0Acontinuously open and close a set of po
ints, that creates a "buzzing"=0Anoise.- These points are fed by DC batte
ry voltage, and as they open and=0Aclose they create a square wave.- A sq
uare wave is a form of Alternating=0ACurrent.- Alternating current is nee
ded to operate a transformer.- A=0Atransformer always has a primary (volt
age input) and a secondary=0A(voltage output).- In the typical M-14 engin
e design, the primary and=0Athe secondary and the "buzzer" are all located
in the same box.- This is=0Aidentical to the system that was first used i
n the Model T Ford engine.=0AThis constant energy source is then fed to the
magneto cap where it is=0Athen fed through the normal mag rotor to the nor
mal mag cap, then to the=0Aspark plugs of the engine.- A second "point" o
n the rotor is used to=0Acreate a retarded timing situation.- =0A=0AThe e
nd result is that instead of just one big single energy surge going=0Ato ea
ch spark plug in sequence, initiated by the mag point set, there is=0Aa sol
id stream of spark energy going continuously to each spark plug as=0Athe ro
tor turns creating more than one spark to each plug, thus the=0Aterm:- "A
SHOWER OF SPARKS".- If this is a Trade Word term, so be it.- =0A=0ASom
e systems actually connect the buzzer points to the P lead of the mag=0Aits
elf.- In the end, you get the exact same effect.... "A shower of=0Asparks
".- =0A=0AYes, the Yak's use a box that contains the buzzer, the primary
and the=0Asecondary of the ignition transformer in one box. I call that a s
hower=0Aof sparks transformer.- You call it a "boost coil".- No problem
.- =0A=0AMark=0A=0AP.s. Good reference:=0Ahttp://www.aeroelectric.com/art
icles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Messa
ge-----=0AFrom: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-yak-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon=0ASent: Thursday, March
26, 2009 11:45 PM=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Sho
non <wlannon@persona.ca>=0A=0AMark;=0A=0AYou , and many others on the list,
refer to the start system as "shower=0Aof sparks".=0A=0AThe CJ is the only
aircraft of this genre that I am fully familiar with=0Aand that start syst
em utilizes a boost coil.- Is the Yak 50, 52=0Adifferent?=0A=0AShower of
Sparks was, many years ago, a Bendix registered trade name for=0Aa start sy
stem that utilized a low voltage ( 12 or 24) vibrator that=0Abypassed the m
agneto primary circuit and energized the MAGNETO secondary=0Ato provide the
high tension current for starting, through the normal=0Adistribution syste
m, that a slow turning mag. could not.=0A=0AThe boost coil by comparison is
a self contained primary/secondary unit=0Athat provides the high tension d
irectly to a retarded electrode in the=0Amag. =0Adistributor.=0A=0AThe earl
y T6/ Harvard 2 use a boost coil.- The T6G/ Harvard 4 utilize a=0Avibrato
r, i.e.;- Bendix "Shower of Sparks".=0A=0AI understand there is another s
hower of sparks system ( by Lamar? or?)=0Abut I have no idea how that works
.=0A=0AWhat system do the Yaks use?=0A=0AWalt=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
============
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Shower of Sparks lesson (LONG) |
Which creates a bath tub worth of sparks.--- =0A=0ASorry, just could
not resist.- =0A=0AMark=0A=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0AFrom: Joe Howse <joeh@shaw.ca>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: F
riday, March 27, 2009 9:42:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Shower of Sparks
a>=0A=0AWalt=0A=0AThe 18T uses a boost coil=0A=0AJoe> =0A=0A=0A=0A> =0A>=0A
============
Message 6
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| Subject: | Yakkers near LHR |
Hi guys,
I'm overnighting twice this week in London (Bloomsbury I'm pretty sure). I was
curious if there were any UK Yakkers nearby.
Mike Hastings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236558#236558
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Shower of Sparks lesson (LONG) |
Joe, please give me a reference for a "boost coil".-- Any reference at
all would be ok... internet, technical manual, anything.- I am not pickin
g on Walt here.- I've been around electronics all my life, since age 8 an
yway, and I have never heard that term before Walt used it.- I am sure he
or you either read it somewhere, or heard it somewhere, and I have been al
l over trying to find it written down in any technical manual and have yet
to find it.-- If I am wrong in NOT using the term, then I want to be ed
ucated on it. =0A-=0AMark Bitterlich=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: Joe Howse <joeh@shaw.ca>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Friday, March 27, 2009 9:42:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Show
<joeh@shaw.ca>=0A=0AWalt=0A=0AThe 18T uses a boost coil=0A=0AJoe> =0A=0A
=========================0A
=================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Shower of Sparks; What is it? |
Mark;
Booster Coil references;
There are many.
We could start with Brimm & Boggess Aircraft Engine Maintenance, 1939
edition but of course you have never heard of that.
Also could quote T6 & Harvard TO.'s & EO's but you do not have those.
The above only give a basic description in any case so I will give you one
that describes all of the auxiliary starting systems and which you should be
able to download.
It is FAA Advisory Circular AC65-12.
Page 192 to 196 in my 1971 copy . I believe there is now revision A which
may or may not have the same page numbers.
As well as reading the text you will be interested in the illustrations
particularly 4-21 - Booster Coil and 4-22 - Induction Vibrator.
There are also schematics for both the high tension and low tension retard
breaker types. The second refers to the low tension magnetos for high
altitude operation of radial engines where each spark plug has it's own
secondary coil.
You will also note that Fig. 4-21 is an exact picture of the Chinese (and
I'm sure the Russian) booster coil. It was copied from the AN unit.
As for me wanting to break it down into sub-categories the fact is that was
down probably before you were born and by people probably a lot smarter than
me.
However you can call it shower of sparks or whatever the hell you like, its
a free country..
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
<mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Shower of Sparks; What is it?
> MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>
>
> Walt,
>
> Here is how I look at it, and of course everyone is welcome to have
> their own opinion on the matter.
>
> Most aircraft engines use mags. Magnetos do not work real well at low
> RPM, so starting an engine with them becomes a problem because starters
> do not usually spin them fast enough to provide enough spark energy.
>
> Because of that, two systems have been devised to provide for enough
> energy to start a mag equipped engine.
>
> 1. Impulse couplers.
> 2. Shower of spark systems.
>
> It appears you want to break down the "shower of sparks" term into two
> sub-categories depending on where the secondary portion of the
> transformer is located. If the primary and secondary of the transformer
> are in the same box, you call it a "boost coil" system. If the
> secondary is in the mags, it is called a "shower of sparks" system. If
> I am correct in that this is your view, that's fine.... But I don't see
> it that way. Just happens to be my personal opinion on the matter. But
> for the sake of discussion, I would appreciate a reference to the use of
> the term "boost coil".
>
> To explain: I personally consider any ignition system that uses the
> basic design of a doorbell buzzer to create a square wave that then
> feeds a transformer can be properly referred to as a "shower of sparks"
> system.
>
> Regardless of where the primary or secondary of the transformer (in
> proper terms: The Ignition Coil) is located, the overall design concept
> remains identical. A "doorbell buzzer" (per se) is used to rapidly and
> continuously open and close a set of points, that creates a "buzzing"
> noise. These points are fed by DC battery voltage, and as they open and
> close they create a square wave. A square wave is a form of Alternating
> Current. Alternating current is needed to operate a transformer. A
> transformer always has a primary (voltage input) and a secondary
> (voltage output). In the typical M-14 engine design, the primary and
> the secondary and the "buzzer" are all located in the same box. This is
> identical to the system that was first used in the Model T Ford engine.
> This constant energy source is then fed to the magneto cap where it is
> then fed through the normal mag rotor to the normal mag cap, then to the
> spark plugs of the engine. A second "point" on the rotor is used to
> create a retarded timing situation.
>
> The end result is that instead of just one big single energy surge going
> to each spark plug in sequence, initiated by the mag point set, there is
> a solid stream of spark energy going continuously to each spark plug as
> the rotor turns creating more than one spark to each plug, thus the
> term: "A SHOWER OF SPARKS". If this is a Trade Word term, so be it.
>
> Some systems actually connect the buzzer points to the P lead of the mag
> itself. In the end, you get the exact same effect.... "A shower of
> sparks".
>
> Yes, the Yak's use a box that contains the buzzer, the primary and the
> secondary of the ignition transformer in one box. I call that a shower
> of sparks transformer. You call it a "boost coil". No problem.
>
> Mark
>
> P.s. Good reference:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Shower-of-Sparks/ShowerOfSparks.pdf
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:45 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shower of Sparks lesson (LONG)
>
>
> Mark;
>
> You , and many others on the list, refer to the start system as "shower
> of sparks".
>
> The CJ is the only aircraft of this genre that I am fully familiar with
> and that start system utilizes a boost coil. Is the Yak 50, 52
> different?
>
> Shower of Sparks was, many years ago, a Bendix registered trade name for
> a start system that utilized a low voltage ( 12 or 24) vibrator that
> bypassed the magneto primary circuit and energized the MAGNETO secondary
> to provide the high tension current for starting, through the normal
> distribution system, that a slow turning mag. could not.
>
> The boost coil by comparison is a self contained primary/secondary unit
> that provides the high tension directly to a retarded electrode in the
> mag.
> distributor.
>
> The early T6/ Harvard 2 use a boost coil. The T6G/ Harvard 4 utilize a
> vibrator, i.e.; Bendix "Shower of Sparks".
>
> I understand there is another shower of sparks system ( by Lamar? or?)
> but I have no idea how that works.
>
> What system do the Yaks use?
>
> Walt
>
>
>
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