Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:55 AM - More on oil consumption (Richard Goode)
2. 09:22 AM - Prop Governor (romanupshaw)
3. 09:38 AM - Re: Prop Governor (NebraskaYak)
4. 01:07 PM - Re: SNF Attendance (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
5. 01:29 PM - Re: Prop Governor (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
6. 04:51 PM - Re: Trade Options... (William Scully)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | More on oil consumption |
To shed a bit more light on this issue:
a.. The main reason for high oil consumption on these engines is the
use of old dated-technology aluminium in the pistons, which has a very
high rate of thermal expansion.
b.. This means that when cold, the pistons have an extremely lose fit
in the bores, and a great deal of oil is lost during start-up (would you
expect to see that cloud of smoke from your car when you start-up?).
c.. Even in the cruise, there is still quite a lot of "slop" at normal
operating temperatures, to give the pistons room to expand yet further
when the engine gets very hot.
d.. Another reason is, again, old-technology piston rings. I am no
expert in these areas, but I know that oil consumption can be
dramatically improved by the use of better rings.
e.. It might seem obvious, but so many people discuss oil consumption
during aerobatics.
f.. Although the Russians have a very good inverted oil system, it
inevitably "breaths" a bit of oil, which is then lost. So no accurate
oil consumption of an engine itself can ever be determined through an
aerobatic flight.
g.. The only way to get an accurate oil consumption - by implication
the condition of the engine - is to warm it up; fully scavenge all oil
out of the engine by running for 20 seconds at a minimum of 60 percent;
shut down and check oil level; fly for a minim of 45 minutes - ideally
more; land and re-measure.
h.. The figure of 3 litres (effective 3 quarts) per hour from
Vedeneyev is the official maximum acceptable.
i.. I suspect however that they introduce this simply to cover their
backsides in terms of warranty claims. Of course it is ridiculous in
that, with a 6 hour endurance in a Sukhoi, you would run of oil long
before fuel, if using that much oil!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Herefordshire
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340 120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340 129
www.russianaeros.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Long time reader, rare poster but need some help. I have bugged Carl and Jill
with M14P Inc as well as Dennis enough so I thought I would give them a break.
Also thought there must surely be someone else out there who has had this problem
before who could offer their experience/advice. This is on a Yak 52. The
prop "seems" to cycle from fine to coarse perfectly on the ground during run-up.
I say "seems" because maybe I am missing something??? Once airborne it refuses
to cooperate. The lowest (coarsest) I can get it is 70% with the throttle
pulled back to even idle. I did try one recommended test which was while in flight
and stable at around 70 square, to quickly (but cautiously) push the prop
lever full forward to see if it went toward red line. It did. Linkage seems
to be fine, and again, it cycles great on the ground. In the air it acts more
like a fixed pitch prop except I can take it from the 70 mark to higher when
I need to. It's like the pressure isn't backing off to allow the counter weights
to rotate the prop.?! I don't know....which is why I write. Rich Hess also
flew it recently and can attest to this. I think it is fine to fly, just not
very efficient but I don't fly much for efficiency anyway. It's just starting
to bug the crap out of me! I should mention that I just had one blade replaced
and both re-painted with new edges. Jill and Carl handled that for me too.
(Though I am innocent this time, don't ask why a blade was replaced. Suffice
it to say... I now have a stop sign up at the end of my runway) Any input from
this well experienced list would be greatly appreciated.
Roman Upshaw
Mobile Alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241452#241452
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor |
I had a very similar problem last year. In flight I could never get below 70%,
but on the ground it checked good. Double check your blade angles. mine were both
off a couple degrees. Once I got them set right, everything worked as advertised.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241456#241456
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Very well said Pappy, and interesting to read. Thank you.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: SNF Attendance
For me its a time to get to see old friends once again. I look passed
the culture its leadership that seems to use the good fellowship of the
aviation community, for some kind of financial gain. I go there for my
self - not them. I do get to see the latest stuff that's coming on line
and buy some neat stuff at show prices. One of the things I saw this
year was a flying motorcycle. Folding wings, telescoping tail, and
ducted fan engine 2 seater. I bet it works. I also saw a new kit glass
job that will fly coast to coast at 200mph. Plus getting a close up
look at the different LSA stuff. Also I get to hobnob with my Aeroshell
buddies. If you think our debriefs are brutal - you should set in on
theirs!
Flying the show - to me - takes a certain discipline to pull it off
without someone getting hurt. Not everyone does it well. Some get to
intimidated to even try. Others are quickly asked to stand down. Yes
some of the big iron guys fuckup big time, in tune with their egos. IE
The Wild Cat pilot who pitched up into our altitude instead of level as
instructed. Of course he than proceeded to lose her and ground loop her
into the grass on the same landing. He wasn't seen the rest of show.
While the show might be great for your ego, there is no place in the
show for egos to go unbounded.
It will be a long time before I see them paying for all your expenses to
go to the show. For none of us lowly formation warbird guys, have the
crowed appeal that the acro, military jets, and honest to God acro teams
do.
I believe the perception of a poor economy (real or not) didn't help.
Also the show up at Cecil in honor of Allen cause a number of guys to
have to make a choice of either that or SnF. Plus 5 of our number
decided to do the Bahamas and were just to popped to pop by the time
they arrived there. So it goes.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/26/2009 7:33:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jblake207@COMCAST.NET writes:
Given the SNF attendance has continued to decline over the last
few years, for various reasons, what are you're predictions for
continued attendance at SNF? Maybe it's time SNF leadership started
thinking about a different approach to customer satisfaction. Both from
an airplane owner and traditional GA attendee's perspective. JB
----- Original Message -----
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:50:17 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada
Central
Subject: Re: Yak-List: What is your typical oil consumption?
My M-14p is using about 1 1/2 qts per hour. Oil consumption has
gone up since new but that was 1500 hours ago.. All rings (except # 9)
have over 1000 hours on them. Low cylinder is 72/80. I use nothing but
60wt detergent oil and 50wt when it gets a little cooler. Have 10
micron filter which is still very clean (no metal) after each change.
I run cruise at 2000 rpm/28mp and acro at 2400 rpm and 32-33 mp. I have
the top end of the governor set at 2850. Temp is usually at 150 to 160C
cylinders and oil temp out is around 100C.
I am planning to go to gap less rings, flat head close tolerance
pistons and perhaps with "O" ring valve seals. Because of the high time
on the bottom end, I don't like the idea of boosting up the horsepower
to God knows what. Besides money IS the constrainting factor.
Hopefully if my retirement fund turn around enough to make my wife feel
comfortable, I hope to do this later this year. Maybe this "top" over
haul, will see me though my old age. :))
BTW, Back from Sun&Fun. Three years ago was the "Hay Year".
Last year was the "Mud Year". This year will be known as the "Soot
Year". The airport authority at LAL decided to burn the aircraft
tiedown area after cutting it and not finding any one to bale the left
over hay. Of course the rains did not come! The result was blowing
black soot everywhere. Just walking though it kicked up black clouds.
People looked like Al Jolson look a- likes. I caught sight of the T-6
guys right after starting engine for the show. It looked like all of
them had way over rich mixtures. A number of WBs left early because of
it. As it was the count from last year was down 30%. Saturday's crowed
was OK but the earlier part of the week was way way off.
RPA again put up the most A/C. but our numbers were way down
too. The most we put up on one day was 8. The last day we put up 6 but
that included 2 orphaned T-34 guys. The T-6 guys were lucky to get 4
for the "Missing Man" salute.
Boggs has tighten up the show and run-in lines. It requires
some very precise flying on the part of the lead. Flying with my canopy
open, I had the "experience" on landing of feeling the blast and the
HEAT, when "Dynamite" set off a charge between me and a Wildcat flat
out and level with me, on a "strafing" pattern. Great fun.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 4/26/2009 3:37:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
yakplt@yahoo.com writes:
1 quart = 0.946 liter. My M-14P has burnt about 1 liter
per hour since new. Every M-14 (except for one) that I have worked on
burnt that much or more. Nothing wrong with that amount of usage unless
you see it leaking out all over the engine compartment obviously. I
have been told that filling the oil tank all the way to the top and then
doing hard acro is not a bright move as it will spew oil everywhere. I
have found personally that this seems to be true, especially with
negative G stuff. When planning that kind of flight, I usually plan on
having a total of 9-10 liters showing on the stick (these are short
flights and the oil is checked after each flight). There are also a few
folks who claim less oil consumption and lower oil temps when doing hard
acro in hot weather switching to straight 60 weight oil. I haven't
tried that yet, but plan to. Not recommended for cold weather ops of
course.
The one exception to this usage was an specially
modified M-14 that used gapless rings and re-machined valve guides with
"O" ring seals. The pistons had also been changed with a tighter
tolerance and a 3 ring piston vice 4. This beast ran cool, the oil
stayed clean and did not turn black, no oil ran out the pipes after
flying, and oil usage went to close to ZERO. Tom Johnson's YAK-50 has
these mods, and so did Sergei Boriak's Suke. I think Bill Blackwell is
offering this mod now and boy would I love to be able to afford it.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
________________________________
From: N642K <mdecanio@mac.com>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 6:51:13 PM
Subject: Yak-List: What is your typical oil consumption?
<mdecanio@mac.com>
Curious about my oil consumption and how it relates to
the group as a whole. I'm typically burning a little less than a quart
an hour in my Housai. About 250 hours since first overhaul.
Occasionally more. How about you?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241138#241138
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
________________________________
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
web. Get the Radio Toolbar
<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003
> !
et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
===================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on
===================================
________________________________
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get
the Radio Toolbar
<http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003
> !
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I am not totally sure of the problem.. .but as I understand it, you are
saying that in straight and level flight, if you pull the throttle to
IDLE (???) your engine RPM does not go below 70% ??? Really?
And...
1. You have not adjusted or replaced the prop governor.
2. You did not have this problem until recently.
3. You just removed and replaced the prop blades.
If this is correct... And ONLY if this is perfectly correct, then follow
the Tech Reps Rule. Suspect ANY problem to be where humans last had
their hands involved. In this case, check the blade angles on the prop
blades after they were re-installed into the prop hub.
Also, it would be of interest to know what your RPM is in flight at full
power with the prop handle pushed all the way forward to the stop.. An
exact number. If it seems like it is going to go over 100%, then of
course STOP and go not further.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of romanupshaw
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 12:16 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Prop Governor
--> <romanupshaw@bellsouth.net>
Long time reader, rare poster but need some help. I have bugged Carl
and Jill with M14P Inc as well as Dennis enough so I thought I would
give them a break. Also thought there must surely be someone else out
there who has had this problem before who could offer their
experience/advice. This is on a Yak 52. The prop "seems" to cycle from
fine to coarse perfectly on the ground during run-up. I say "seems"
because maybe I am missing something??? Once airborne it refuses to
cooperate. The lowest (coarsest) I can get it is 70% with the throttle
pulled back to even idle. I did try one recommended test which was while
in flight and stable at around 70 square, to quickly (but cautiously)
push the prop lever full forward to see if it went toward red line. It
did. Linkage seems to be fine, and again, it cycles great on the ground.
In the air it acts more like a fixed pitch prop except I can take it
from the 70 mark to higher when I need to. It's like the pressure isn't
backing off!
to allow the counter weights to rotate the prop.?! I don't
know....which is why I write. Rich Hess also flew it recently and can
attest to this. I think it is fine to fly, just not very efficient but
I don't fly much for efficiency anyway. It's just starting to bug the
crap out of me! I should mention that I just had one blade replaced and
both re-painted with new edges. Jill and Carl handled that for me too.
(Though I am innocent this time, don't ask why a blade was replaced.
Suffice it to say... I now have a stop sign up at the end of my runway)
Any input from this well experienced list would be greatly appreciated.
Roman Upshaw
Mobile Alabama
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241452#241452
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Trade Options... |
Hi Rico;=0A------------- I'm Bill Scully & I work
for a Canadian importer of CJ's. Will have 2 a/c arriving from China in Ju
ne. (no exact date yet). I-may be interested in some type of trade.... my
CJ's will be latest release from military & in very good condition. { appr
ox. 1990 yr. of mfg. }.. I can sell-/ trade either "in box" or, certified
& flying.=0A------------ If you are interested, pl
esase send me as many pics & all info on your a/c.... I'm in LA ,Ca...... c
ell-# (213) 820-1564.- call or "E" anytime bwt. 7am & 10pm. PST=0A-
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
---------- Thanks=0A-----------
-------------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------
---------------- Bill---=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Rico Jaeger <rijaeger@wausau.k1
2.wi.us>=0ATo: yak-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:49
:52 AM=0ASubject: Yak-List: Trade Options...=0A=0A=0AHi, Guys! Just throwin
g this out there...I've been hoping to get into a Yak / CJ for a while now.
I have a nice Fairchild PT-26 project well under way, a nice Vultee BT-13
project and a flying '66 C150. I would trade any or all for a Yak / CJ. I h
ave many pix / inventory lists available. Talk to me. If you know of an opp
ortunity that will not be seen on the list, please feel free to advise. I'm
determined to-get there one way or another...! Thanks so much, and have
a great day! Rico=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>>> Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list@matron
ics.com> 4/16/2009 1:59 AM >>>=0A*=0A=0A===========
===============0A-- Online Versions of Toda
y's List Digest Archive=0A================
==========0A=0AToday's complete Yak-List Digest can also
be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file
includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and
features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file i
ncludes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed
with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A
=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A--- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.
php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-04-15&Archive=Yak=0A=0AText
Version:=0A=0A--- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Styl
e=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-04-15&Archive=Yak=0A=0A=0A===
=====================0A-- EMail
Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A===========
=============0A=0A=0A----------
----------------------------------------------------------=0A----
---------------------- Yak-List
Digest Archive=0A-------------------
------------------ ---=0A----
---------------- Total Messages Posted Wed
04/15/09: 3=0A---------- ------------------------------
----------------------------=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A-------------
---------=0A=0A---- 1. 08:37 PM - Tailwheel adapter update 2- (We
sley Warner)=0A---- 2. 10:41 PM - Nanchang Cylinder Base Gaskets-
(Jay McIntyre)=0A---- 3. 11:20 PM - Re: Nanchang Cylinder Base Gas
kets- (Frank Stelwagon)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Me
ssage 1- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:37:22 PM
PST US=0ASubject: Yak-List: Tailwheel adapter update 2=0AFrom: Wesley Warne
r <warner.wesley@gmail.com>=0A=0AGuys,=0A- I've been talking to the guy o
n the phone as my trip was postponed.=0AI took what he had file wise and up
dated it.- Attached is a 3D pdf of=0Awhat the adapter looks like.- Just
click on the image after the pdf=0Aloads and you can rotate it around, etc
...- I'm now traveling this=0Aweekend and should be able to meet with him
and drop off the original=0Aprototype.- I'll let you guys know more, whe
n I do.=0A=0AWes=0A=0A________________________________- Message 2- ____
_________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 10:41:45 PM PST US=0ASubjec
t: Yak-List: Nanchang Cylinder Base Gaskets=0AFrom: Jay McIntyre <cjaviator
@gmail.com>=0A=0AHi all.=0AJust had a newly overhauled Housai loosen the #4
cylinder base nuts after=0A2.1 hours.=0AUpon removing the cylinder we foun
d the rear 2 sets of studs had no tab=0Awashers or other form of locking on
them.=0AWe also found that all 8 other cylinders have a base gasket of ver
y soft=0Ametal construction - #4 had the normal paper gasket.=0ACan anyone
tell me what these gaskets would be made of as we have not=0Adisturbed any
of them.=0AAlso... what are peoples views on running without the gaskets an
d just the=0AO-ring (like most other engines). I am sure the Chinese put th
e gasket there=0Afor some reason. Anything to do with the shot peening on t
he mating face of=0Athe crankcase????=0A=0Aregards, Jay=0ANew Zealand.=0A
=0AP.S this is the same aircraft that I had the voltage regulator/generator
=0Aproblem with. It was cured by finding a serviceable voltage regulator...
.=0AInterestingly the other aircraft we were playing with had the solid sta
te=0Aregulation system with the big heat sink in place of the regulator. Th
e=0Awiring was reversed on it and we cured our induced problem by flashing
the=0Agenerator in the opposite way to which the wiring diagram indicated!
=0A=0A________________________________- Message 3- ____________________
_________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:20:55 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Frank Stelwagon
" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>=0ASubject: Re: Yak-List: Nanchang Cylinder Ba
se Gaskets=0A=0AUse the O-ring and a thin coating of Hylomar (sp) with no g
asket.- The =0AHylomar can be hard to find, it is a Permatex brand. Use h
e lock tabs.=0A=0AFrank =0AN23021=0A- ----- Original Message ----- =0A-
From: Jay McIntyre =0A- To: yak list =0A- Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2
009 10:40 PM=0A- Subject: Yak-List: Nanchang Cylinder Base Gaskets=0A=0A
=0A- Hi all.=0A- Just had a newly overhauled Housai loosen the #4 cylin
der base nuts =0Aafter 2.1 hours.=0A- Upon removing the cylinder we found
the rear 2 sets of studs had no =0Atab washers or other form of locking on
them.=0A- We also found that all 8 other cylinders have a base gasket of
very =0Asoft metal construction - #4 had the normal paper gasket.=0A- Ca
n anyone tell me what these gaskets would be made of as we have not =0Adist
urbed any of them.=0A- Also... what are peoples views on running without
the gaskets and just =0Athe O-ring (like most other engines). I am sure the
Chinese put the =0Agasket there for some reason. Anything to do with the s
hot peening on =0Athe mating face of the crankcase????=0A=0A- regards, Ja
y=0A- New Zealand.=0A=0A- P.S this is the same aircraft that I had the
voltage =0Aregulator/generator problem with. It was cured by finding a serv
iceable =0Avoltage regulator....=0A- Interestingly the other aircraft we
were playing with had the solid =0Astate regulation system with the big hea
t sink in place of the =0Aregulator. The wiring was reversed on it and we c
ured our induced =0Aproblem by flashing the generator in the opposite way t
o which the - --> http://www--> http://forums.matronics.comsp;---
------ - List Contributinbsp;-----------
-------------&--> http://www.matroni====
==============0A=0A=0A
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|