Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:22 AM - brand new magneto parts available (Elmar Hegenauer)
2. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: M14P magneto (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: M14P magneto (barryhancock)
4. 08:22 AM - Re: brand new magneto parts available (Walter Lannon)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: M14P magneto (doug sapp)
6. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: M14P magneto (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: M14P magneto (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
8. 09:56 AM - Re: M14P magneto (N395V)
9. 01:19 PM - Re: brand new magneto parts available (Elmar Hegenauer)
10. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: brand new magneto parts available (Dave Strawn)
11. 05:55 PM - Re: Re: brand new magneto parts available (talew@bellsouth.net)
12. 08:03 PM - 52TW Owner that was at Gaston's (mikspin)
13. 09:01 PM - Re: M14P magneto (barryhancock)
14. 09:54 PM - Re: 52TW Owner that was at Gaston's (mikspin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | brand new magneto parts available |
I fell in love with gliders so
I put my CJ6 up for sale. Now
I can sell off my extensive
spare parts inventory and if
anybody is interested, please
contact me off list.
I have brand new magneto coils
and brand new breaker points, but
they aren't cheap.
Regards
Elmar
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
As always, Walt's explanation is perfect. One point I will make though
pertaining to the M9-35 mags, every one that I have seen over the past 9
years installed on an M14 has been timed to after TDC. The numbers
stamped in the boss of the mag under the cover have been "34", "35",
"36" and "37". I have not seen a "33" or lower number on an M9-35 when
installed on an M14. In case anyone is interested, here is the timing
chart for the M9-35 mag based on the number stamped in the boss of the
mag.
STAMP
TIME TO
23
2
BTDC
24
2
BTDC
25
1
BTDC
26
1
BTDC
27
0
28
(1)
ATDC
29
(1)
ATDC
30
(2)
ATDC
31
(2)
ATDC
32
(3)
ATDC
33
(4)
ATDC
34
(4)
ATDC
35
(5)
ATDC
36
(5)
ATDC
37
(6)
ATDC
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Walter Lannon
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
The available magnetos are;
1. The M9 ( original Russian mag) This is an Auto advance magneto with
a range of advance from 23 to 27 degs.
2. The Chinese CD5. This a licence built version of the M9 and is
identical in all respects.
3. The Russian M9-25M. An auto advance mag with a range of advance
settings from 23 to 27 degs.
4. The Russian M9-35M. An auto advance mag with a range of advance
settings from 23 to 37 degs.
5. The Russian M9F. A fixed spark magneto, ie; NO auto advance. In this
respect identical in operation to the Bendix SB9RN, SB9RN-4 or the
American Bosch 9 cyl series.
Each engine model derived from the original Ivchenko AI 14R has a
different specification for ignition timing depending on power output,
RPM and minimum specified fuel grade. This is expressed in degrees of
CRANKSHAFT rotation before top dead centre.
M14P spec. is 23 +/- 1 deg.
AI 14R 30 +/- 1 "
HS6 31 +/- 1 "
HS6A 27 +/- 1 " (this may raise some questions as there
are two different references - one the same as the HS6)
Of course there are many other engines in the Ivchenko series in
addition to the above.
Since these are all geared engines and it is convenient to measure from
the propellor shaft the measured angle is a function of the reduction
gear ratio.
The corresponding angle for the M14P is therefore 23 x 0.658 or 15.13
+/- 0.7 degs.
The stock M9F mag on the M14 P is set to that specification and it is a
simple matter to exactly synchronize the two mags.
Synchronizing one M9F to any of the auto advance mags is, at the very
best, a crap shoot. There is simply no way to accurately measure the
precise firing angle of the auto advance mag.
Each individual AA magneto has it's advance setting stamped on the
housing. For the M9, CD5 and M9-25M that is usually 25 degs. BUT not
necessarily. That must be checked at installation and the timing
adjusted accordingly.
I do not know what the usual is for the M9-35M. It can be anywhere from
23 degs to 37degs. Therefore it is not totally accurate to state that
the M9-35M is set to AFTER TDC. It may very well be but that is a
function of the engine specified angle and the individual stamped
setting on the mag.
I'm sure at least two questions will arise from this (if anyone is
really interested).
1. What is the difference between the original M9 and the M9-25M since
they have the same advance range and appear identical?
2. Why the introduction of the M9-35M with a full 10 degs. more range?
Truth is I don't know the answers. But I will speculate on the first.
Maybe someone can correct me and also answer the second..
1. The auto advance mechanism is a set of fly-weights subject to
movement with changing RPM. This is counter-balanced by spring
pressure.
The original engines were of low max. RPM (2250/2350) while the later
M14P and likely others are high RPM (2900).
I would suggest that the fly-weight/spring mechanism has been designed
for different ranges of RPM.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
FWIW, the Russian mag (M9-35) with variable or centrifugal advance
timing is timed based on a number stamped in the boss of the mag under
the top cover and cross referenced to a manufacturer's timing chart.
Virtually all of the M9-35 mags are timed AFTER top dead center.
Typically close to 5 degrees after TDC. Now on the other hand, the
Chinese mags, which are also variable or centrifugal advance timing are
also based on a number stamped in the boss of the mag under the top
cover and cross referenced to a timing chart. However, these mags,
after cross referencing the numbers on the mag to the chart, are timed
BEFORE top dead center. Typically in the 7-8 degree range before TDC
range. I would think there would be a much better chance of
"reasonable" operation mixing a Chinese mag with a Russian M9-F fixed
timing mag (14-16 degrees BTDC) than mixing an M9-F mag with any M9-35
mag, given the fact that the Chinese mag will probably advance to
somewhere close to the 14-16 degrees BTDC when it is fully advanced.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Tom,
The M-9F mag does not have a centrifugal advance mechanism at all. It
is a fixed mag. As Dennis Savarese pointed out: " That would be an
M9-F magneto which has a fixed timing setting of 14-16 degrees before
TDC."
Any mag that DOES have a centrifugal advance mechanism in it will vary
the point where the spark plug fires in relation to the piston position
to top dead center as it moves to the fully advanced position. Thus
during portions of the engine RPM range, the two spark plugs will be
firing at different times. There is just no way around it. So, it is
NEVER a good idea to use one mag with fixed timing and the other with
variable timing.
But, if you really wanted to do that, a person could take the variable
timing mag apart, move the advance mechanism to full advance, and then
set that mag to match the firing point of the fixed timing mag, so that
at wide open throttle, the two mags would fire the two spark plugs at
exactly the same time, this would then cure the full power problem. But
of course, then you would simply MOVE the problem to a different RPM
range where once gain as the variable spark timing .... VARIED ..... It
would no longer be synchronous with the other mag. Simply put, how do
you take two mags, one with variable spark timing and one with fixed
spark timing, and get them both to fire the spark plugs at the same time
through-out the whole RPM range.
Answer: You don't.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that each different type of mag
comes with it's own set of written procedures on how to set the overall
timing of the mag in relation to the piston position on the master
timing cylinder. There is one set of procedures for the FIXED mag, and
ANOTHER set of procedures for the VARIABLE mag.
Like I said, if you understood the problem in advance, you could come up
with your OWN procedures that could make the two mags work more or less
together at any certain RPM, including full throttle, but never
throughout the WHOLE range.
In the case of the subject engine that had the performance problem, each
mag was timed the way each mag (individually) was SUPPOSED to be timed,
and the result was that both of them were not firing at the same time
when the engine was at maximum RPM.
There are indeed RUSSIAN MAGS that also have variable spark timing. If
you used a Russian Mag with variable mag timing, and a Chinese Mag with
variable valve timing, you still would have to consider the variable
timing rate of change and amount of change, (this is called the timing
curve) and make sure they were matched. In order to do that, you would
typically spin both units on a machine that would measure these curves,
which is exactly how we used to do it on old racing cars with variable
advance.
Starting is not an issue with these engines since a completely different
system is used with it's own coil and it's own rotor point, and the
advance is not controlled in any way by the variable mechanism.
Yes, the variable advance will give a smoother idle, and also a better
transition from low to medium power, especially during very rapid
transitions of the throttle. Both were important, but in cars, the
smooth transition was the major concern. In airplanes, you can actually
live without any of it, as long as you don't get too eager with the
throttle movement, as evidenced by the fact that the M-9F mag actually
works pretty well.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
The centrifugal advance system in the Chinese MAG and some of the
Russians appears to reach the max advance considerably before reaching
top RPM. So the timing i.e. max advance if set correctly would be the
same. It seems the reason for the centrifugal advance was for easer
starting and smoother idle.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Pappy, is this a case where the Chinese Mag had a spark advance
mechanism and used variable spark timing, and the other one (The M9) ran
FIXED spark timing?
I am not sure if that is the case or not. I know that some of these
mags run variable timing and some run fixed. Running two variables, or
running two fixed would be fine, but running an engine with one that has
variable spark timing and one that has fixed spark timing would allow
the engine to have the plugs firing at two different times in the same
cylinder and that would be a bad thing.
This actually happened with one M-14PF leading to a really difficult to
diagnose high performance problem at full throttle. Turned out to be a
mixed mag problem like described above.
Not being familiar with the Chinese mags at all, I do not know which
type of operation they use honestly. If they are fixed timing mags with
just a slightly different adjustment procedure, then heck yes... No
problem mixing them with Russian mags. But if one is a variable timing
mag, and one is a fixed timing mag, that would not be a good thing to do
other than maybe in a "GET IT HOME" kind of emergency... And to be
honest if I did that, I would fly it on one or the other mag during the
flight home and not on BOTH.
Just my 2 cents,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:49 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
In a message dated 6/22/2009 6:31:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wise@txc.net.au writes:
Chris,
You know you can use a mag off the HS-6 Chinese engine, if you can fine
one.
You time it a little differently. At one point I ran my M-14p with one
Russian mag and one Chinese mag. Worked fine, until I was able to get
one Russian mag back from overhauled. At one point I ran the
M-14 on just Chinese mags. I honestly could not tell the difference.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
G'Day Milt,
Thanks for sendingme the link to Steve Culp's site.
I had already looked there and his Mag is dearer than all others.
I notice that you sign off with radial rocket.
A number of years back I was extremely interested in building one
and sent
emails to the advertised site with never a reply.
Man, they look to be a awesome ship.
Thanks and cheers,
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
<Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
>
> Look here
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M-14P-M9F-Mag-Radial-Russian_W0QQcmdZView
ItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a8Q7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em1
4Q2el1262QQhashZitem1c049d394eQQitemZ120336496974QQptZMotorsQ5fAviationQ
5fPartsQ5fGear
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249511#249511
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
Checked by AVG -
=======================e
ties Day
=======================
-
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
======================
- List Contribution Web Site sp;
________________________________
Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes
<http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004> for the p;
Navigator Photoshare, and
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
========================<
; via the Web
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
Hey Milt,
What kind of real performance are you seeing with the RR? Also, when you shove
both levers in the corner, what's your IAS?
Thanks!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249800#249800
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: brand new magneto parts available |
Hi Elmar;
Please let me know how many you have and the price. I will take them for
stock if possible.
Thanks;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elmar Hegenauer" <elmar.h@shaw.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:14 AM
Subject: Yak-List: brand new magneto parts available
>
>
> I fell in love with gliders so
> I put my CJ6 up for sale. Now
> I can sell off my extensive
> spare parts inventory and if
> anybody is interested, please
> contact me off list.
>
> I have brand new magneto coils
> and brand new breaker points, but
> they aren't cheap.
>
> Regards
>
> Elmar
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
Michael,No automotive points exist which will fit the Chinese CD4, CD 5
or Russian M9 series mags (that I know of). However, coil, HT rod, and
points are interchangeable in all of them.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Michael Beach <mbeach@hartwigs.com.au>wrote:
> Reading the discussion on mags has been interesting but I have a question
> for the group has any one replaced the contact points on the CJ mags and if
> so where Did you get them ? Is there a automotive replacement ?
>
>
> *REGARDS *
>
> * *
>
> *MICHAEL BEACH*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
Michael,
Being on a roll here, I have a question for you and everyone else on the
list.
If there is an "automotive" replacement, should we actually use it?
And if anyone says that "it's A-OK" to do because our aircraft are
"Experimental", my answer is: "Yes, that's probably true, but ... It
also would surely mean that the aircraft would have to be put back into
Phase One testing as a minimum.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Beach
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:09 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
Reading the discussion on mags has been interesting but I have a
question for the group has any one replaced the contact points on the
CJ mags and if so where Did you get them ? Is there a automotive
replacement ?
REGARDS
MICHAEL BEACH
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
Well Walter (and Dennis), I for one am surely interested. And Walter
your analysis makes sense, especially to anyone who has ever set up the
timing curve on a racing distributor, using a handful of weights and
springs in the process.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
The available magnetos are;
1. The M9 ( original Russian mag) This is an Auto advance magneto with
a range of advance from 23 to 27 degs.
2. The Chinese CD5. This a licence built version of the M9 and is
identical in all respects.
3. The Russian M9-25M. An auto advance mag with a range of advance
settings from 23 to 27 degs.
4. The Russian M9-35M. An auto advance mag with a range of advance
settings from 23 to 37 degs.
5. The Russian M9F. A fixed spark magneto, ie; NO auto advance. In this
respect identical in operation to the Bendix SB9RN, SB9RN-4 or the
American Bosch 9 cyl series.
Each engine model derived from the original Ivchenko AI 14R has a
different specification for ignition timing depending on power output,
RPM and minimum specified fuel grade. This is expressed in degrees of
CRANKSHAFT rotation before top dead centre.
M14P spec. is 23 +/- 1 deg.
AI 14R 30 +/- 1 "
HS6 31 +/- 1 "
HS6A 27 +/- 1 " (this may raise some questions as there
are two different references - one the same as the HS6)
Of course there are many other engines in the Ivchenko series in
addition to the above.
Since these are all geared engines and it is convenient to measure from
the propellor shaft the measured angle is a function of the reduction
gear ratio.
The corresponding angle for the M14P is therefore 23 x 0.658 or 15.13
+/- 0.7 degs.
The stock M9F mag on the M14 P is set to that specification and it is a
simple matter to exactly synchronize the two mags.
Synchronizing one M9F to any of the auto advance mags is, at the very
best, a crap shoot. There is simply no way to accurately measure the
precise firing angle of the auto advance mag.
Each individual AA magneto has it's advance setting stamped on the
housing. For the M9, CD5 and M9-25M that is usually 25 degs. BUT not
necessarily. That must be checked at installation and the timing
adjusted accordingly.
I do not know what the usual is for the M9-35M. It can be anywhere from
23 degs to 37degs. Therefore it is not totally accurate to state that
the M9-35M is set to AFTER TDC. It may very well be but that is a
function of the engine specified angle and the individual stamped
setting on the mag.
I'm sure at least two questions will arise from this (if anyone is
really interested).
1. What is the difference between the original M9 and the M9-25M since
they have the same advance range and appear identical?
2. Why the introduction of the M9-35M with a full 10 degs. more range?
Truth is I don't know the answers. But I will speculate on the first.
Maybe someone can correct me and also answer the second..
1. The auto advance mechanism is a set of fly-weights subject to
movement with changing RPM. This is counter-balanced by spring
pressure.
The original engines were of low max. RPM (2250/2350) while the later
M14P and likely others are high RPM (2900).
I would suggest that the fly-weight/spring mechanism has been designed
for different ranges of RPM.
----- Original Message -----
From: A. Dennis Savarese <mailto:dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
FWIW, the Russian mag (M9-35) with variable or centrifugal
advance timing is timed based on a number stamped in the boss of the mag
under the top cover and cross referenced to a manufacturer's timing
chart. Virtually all of the M9-35 mags are timed AFTER top dead center.
Typically close to 5 degrees after TDC. Now on the other hand, the
Chinese mags, which are also variable or centrifugal advance timing are
also based on a number stamped in the boss of the mag under the top
cover and cross referenced to a timing chart. However, these mags,
after cross referencing the numbers on the mag to the chart, are timed
BEFORE top dead center. Typically in the 7-8 degree range before TDC
range. I would think there would be a much better chance of
"reasonable" operation mixing a Chinese mag with a Russian M9-F fixed
timing mag (14-16 degrees BTDC) than mixing an M9-F mag with any M9-35
mag, given the fact that the Chinese mag will probably advance to
somewhere close to the 14-16 degrees BTDC when it is fully advanced.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14
64E <mailto:mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Tom,
The M-9F mag does not have a centrifugal advance
mechanism at all. It
is a fixed mag. As Dennis Savarese pointed out: " That
would be an
M9-F magneto which has a fixed timing setting of 14-16
degrees before
TDC."
Any mag that DOES have a centrifugal advance mechanism
in it will vary
the point where the spark plug fires in relation to the
piston position
to top dead center as it moves to the fully advanced
position. Thus
during portions of the engine RPM range, the two spark
plugs will be
firing at different times. There is just no way around
it. So, it is
NEVER a good idea to use one mag with fixed timing and
the other with
variable timing.
But, if you really wanted to do that, a person could
take the variable
timing mag apart, move the advance mechanism to full
advance, and then
set that mag to match the firing point of the fixed
timing mag, so that
at wide open throttle, the two mags would fire the two
spark plugs at
exactly the same time, this would then cure the full
power problem. But
of course, then you would simply MOVE the problem to a
different RPM
range where once gain as the variable spark timing ....
VARIED ..... It
would no longer be synchronous with the other mag.
Simply put, how do
you take two mags, one with variable spark timing and
one with fixed
spark timing, and get them both to fire the spark plugs
at the same time
through-out the whole RPM range.
Answer: You don't.
The problem is exacerbated by the fact that each
different type of mag
comes with it's own set of written procedures on how to
set the overall
timing of the mag in relation to the piston position on
the master
timing cylinder. There is one set of procedures for the
FIXED mag, and
ANOTHER set of procedures for the VARIABLE mag.
Like I said, if you understood the problem in advance,
you could come up
with your OWN procedures that could make the two mags
work more or less
together at any certain RPM, including full throttle,
but never
throughout the WHOLE range.
In the case of the subject engine that had the
performance problem, each
mag was timed the way each mag (individually) was
SUPPOSED to be timed,
and the result was that both of them were not firing at
the same time
when the engine was at maximum RPM.
There are indeed RUSSIAN MAGS that also have variable
spark timing. If
you used a Russian Mag with variable mag timing, and a
Chinese Mag with
variable valve timing, you still would have to consider
the variable
timing rate of change and amount of change, (this is
called the timing
curve) and make sure they were matched. In order to do
that, you would
typically spin both units on a machine that would
measure these curves,
which is exactly how we used to do it on old racing cars
with variable
advance.
Starting is not an issue with these engines since a
completely different
system is used with it's own coil and it's own rotor
point, and the
advance is not controlled in any way by the variable
mechanism.
Yes, the variable advance will give a smoother idle, and
also a better
transition from low to medium power, especially during
very rapid
transitions of the throttle. Both were important, but in
cars, the
smooth transition was the major concern. In airplanes,
you can actually
live without any of it, as long as you don't get too
eager with the
throttle movement, as evidenced by the fact that the
M-9F mag actually
works pretty well.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Tom Elliott
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:17 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
<N13472@aol.com>
The centrifugal advance system in the Chinese MAG and
some of the
Russians appears to reach the max advance considerably
before reaching
top RPM. So the timing i.e. max advance if set correctly
would be the
same. It seems the reason for the centrifugal advance
was for easer
starting and smoother idle.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of Bitterlich,
Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:17 AM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
Det Cherry
--> Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
Pappy, is this a case where the Chinese Mag had a spark
advance
mechanism and used variable spark timing, and the other
one (The M9) ran
FIXED spark timing?
I am not sure if that is the case or not. I know that
some of these
mags run variable timing and some run fixed. Running
two variables, or
running two fixed would be fine, but running an engine
with one that has
variable spark timing and one that has fixed spark
timing would allow
the engine to have the plugs firing at two different
times in the same
cylinder and that would be a bad thing.
This actually happened with one M-14PF leading to a
really difficult to
diagnose high performance problem at full throttle.
Turned out to be a
mixed mag problem like described above.
Not being familiar with the Chinese mags at all, I do
not know which
type of operation they use honestly. If they are fixed
timing mags with
just a slightly different adjustment procedure, then
heck yes... No
problem mixing them with Russian mags. But if one is a
variable timing
mag, and one is a fixed timing mag, that would not be a
good thing to do
other than maybe in a "GET IT HOME" kind of emergency...
And to be
honest if I did that, I would fly it on one or the other
mag during the
flight home and not on BOTH.
Just my 2 cents,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:49 PM
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
In a message dated 6/22/2009 6:31:23 P.M. Eastern
Daylight Time,
wise@txc.net.au writes:
Chris,
You know you can use a mag off the HS-6 Chinese engine,
if you can fine
one.
You time it a little differently. At one point I ran my
M-14p with one
Russian mag and one Chinese mag. Worked fine, until I
was able to get
one Russian mag back from overhauled. At one point I
ran the
M-14 on just Chinese mags. I honestly could not tell
the difference.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
<wise@txc.net.au>
G'Day Milt,
Thanks for sendingme the link to Steve Culp's site.
I had already looked there and his Mag is dearer
than all others.
I notice that you sign off with radial rocket.
A number of years back I was extremely interested in
building one
and sent
emails to the advertised site with never a reply.
Man, they look to be a awesome ship.
Thanks and cheers,
Chris.
----- Original Message -----
From: "N395V" <Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:24 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: M14P magneto
<Bearcat@bearcataviation.com>
>
> Look here
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/M-14P-M9F-Mag-Radial-Russian_W0QQcmdZView
ItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a8Q7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em1
4Q2el1262QQhashZitem1c049d394eQQitemZ120336496974QQptZMotorsQ5fAviationQ
5fPartsQ5fGear
>
> --------
> Milt
> 2003 F1 Rocket
> 2006 Radial Rocket
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249511#249511
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
barryhancock wrote:
> Hey Milt,
>
> What kind of real performance are you seeing with the RR? Also, when you shove
both levers in the corner, what's your IAS?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Barry
I usually run 28/1800, my plane has the PF engine and I have replaced the pressure
carb with an airflow performance throttle body with manual mixture control
and run a MT 98" 3 blade prop.
At at these settings fully loaded I see (192IAS) 205KTS TAS @14GPH and CHTs averaging
380deg F
When I shove everything forward I can get (210IAS) 235KTS TAS at 50+ GPH.
IAS and TAS are with a Blue Mountain EFIS Sport G4 and correlate well with ground
speed given winds.
VNE is 250 KTS IAS
--------
Milt
2003 F1 Rocket
2006 Radial Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249830#249830
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: brand new magneto parts available |
I have 4 new magneto coils and 4
new breaker points.
When I bought them years ago the
US dollar was soaring and the Canadian
dollar was weak and as a private
individual I had to pay taxes and
import fees on top of it.
To break even I have to ask for each
coil US$ 512.00 and for each breaker
point US$ 257.00, I am very sorry
about that, two of them are already sold.
I also have 2 overhaul kits for the
magnetos (bearings, gears, rotor, etc.)
Thank you for your interest.
Blue Skies
Elmar
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: brand new magneto parts available |
All,
I have two, used CJ 6 spare mags for sale. Came off engine I replaced.
Approximately 850 total hours. Sell for $350 each plus shipping.
Dave Strawn
Atlanta, Georgia
Dastrawn@bellsouth.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar Hegenauer
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:16 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Re: brand new magneto parts available
I have 4 new magneto coils and 4
new breaker points.
When I bought them years ago the
US dollar was soaring and the Canadian
dollar was weak and as a private
individual I had to pay taxes and
import fees on top of it.
To break even I have to ask for each
coil US$ 512.00 and for each breaker
point US$ 257.00, I am very sorry
about that, two of them are already sold.
I also have 2 overhaul kits for the
magnetos (bearings, gears, rotor, etc.)
Thank you for your interest.
Blue Skies
Elmar
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: brand new magneto parts available |
Hi Dave,
I would like to buy the mags you have for sale. Please call me at 954 946 5266
and we can do the deal . I need the parts .
Thanks,
Terry Lewis
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dave Strawn" <dastrawn@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> All,
>
> I have two, used CJ 6 spare mags for sale. Came off engine I replaced.
> Approximately 850 total hours. Sell for $350 each plus shipping.
>
> Dave Strawn
> Atlanta, Georgia
> Dastrawn@bellsouth.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Elmar Hegenauer
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:16 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: brand new magneto parts available
>
>
>
> I have 4 new magneto coils and 4
> new breaker points.
> When I bought them years ago the
> US dollar was soaring and the Canadian
> dollar was weak and as a private
> individual I had to pay taxes and
> import fees on top of it.
>
> To break even I have to ask for each
> coil US$ 512.00 and for each breaker
> point US$ 257.00, I am very sorry
> about that, two of them are already sold.
>
> I also have 2 overhaul kits for the
> magnetos (bearings, gears, rotor, etc.)
>
> Thank you for your interest.
>
> Blue Skies
>
> Elmar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | 52TW Owner that was at Gaston's |
Hi folks,
I'm looking for the guy that was at Gaston's (sorry I wasn't there, work got in
the way) that has a 52TW.
Please contact me off list.
Mike Hastings
acromike@gmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249909#249909
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: M14P magneto |
Thanks, Milt. Impressive performance numbers. Those CHT numbers are hot for cruise.
I'd expect them in the 310-340 range. Are your running LOP?
A PF with the Airflow system should net some serious HP.
What altitudes are you seeing those numbers at? Also, what does a typical climb
profile look like?
Regards,
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249914#249914
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 52TW Owner that was at Gaston's |
Sorry, wasn't specific enough...I'm looking for the other TW owner that was not
in 269DK (Steve) at Gaston's.
TIA
Mike Hastings
acromike@gmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249918#249918
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