Yak-List Digest Archive

Mon 07/06/09


Total Messages Posted: 20



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:44 AM - Re: Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio (Jan Mevis)
     2. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (Hans Oortman)
     3. 06:51 AM - Re: Parachutes (N642K)
     4. 06:52 AM - Re: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (A. Dennis Savarese)
     5. 06:58 AM - Re: Parachutes (N642K)
     6. 06:59 AM - Idling problem... (Zjopa)
     7. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (Hans Oortman)
     8. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Parachutes (jblake207@COMCAST.NET)
     9. 09:12 AM - Re: Idling problem... (Walter Lannon)
    10. 09:37 AM - Re: Becker radio noise (Craig Winkelmann)
    11. 09:41 AM - Re: Idling problem... (Tom Elliott)
    12. 09:42 AM - Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (Craig Winkelmann)
    13. 09:49 AM - Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (Craig Winkelmann)
    14. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Parachutes (John Cox)
    15. 10:24 AM - Re: Idling problem... (Zjopa)
    16. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
    17. 11:34 AM - Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
    18. 12:04 PM - Re: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio (A. Dennis Savarese)
    19. 12:18 PM - Re: Idling problem... (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
    20. 12:56 PM - Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio (Craig Winkelmann)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:44:30 AM PST US
    From: "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis@informavia.be>
    Subject: Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio
    I have a Becker 4201 radio in my Yak 50 (with B&C alternator). The radio works perfectly well, but I've also changed the audio wiring completely. I've used RG400 antenna cable and have a Comant antenna instead of the original Russian antenna (and a Dave Clark headset). IMHO, but I'm not an electronics expert, if you use western radio's, then better change it ALL to avoid impedance problems etc. Before I had the American ignition wiring harness (Dennis' set) on my M14P and I had more noise on my Russian BRIZ radio. That's why I installed the Becker, and all the noise problems were solved. Since a year I have a new engine, and did not change the wiring harness yet. So that is still the original Russian. And the Becker 4201 still works very fine. So I'm inclined to think that in my case the problem was cable-related. Jan YK50 RA2005K -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Winkelmann Sent: maandag 6 juli 2009 2:08 Subject: Yak-List: Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio I too have a Becker in my CJ that is stone quite on the ground (at idle) and unusable in flight due to noise. The Garmin SL-30 in the plane functions perfectly. My Becker is fed by a King KR-22 24 to 12 VDC converter and I have converted from the stock generator to the B&C alternator. I have yet to make some tests to determine where the noise is coming from (power or antenna). I will get to that in a week or so (other problems to solve first), hence, I am very interested in this discussion. I wonder if the Becker was originally designed for gliders so there is no filtration on the power as it would be operating off a battery. This could be one reason why this radio seems to be line noise sensitive. I am also going to try and call Becker USA to inquire. Craig W. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251644#251644


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:42:55 AM PST US
    From: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    Frank, I use the PS-Engineering PM1000, which is functioning great on VOX. I have never had the problem of interference before. When I ferried my Yak from Lithuania to Holland I did not have this problem. During the course of time it simply happened that I could not use my GPS anymore because it was causing interference on my 4201 which did not happen before. I have never been able to explain this. I checked all the screening, all are OK. I have checked the P-leads (including the screening) on the mags, installed Lonestar filters in these p-leads but they don't seem to make any difference. I also have the capacitor and the psu filter but I did not install these yet. After this the remaining item to change is the dc-dc converter but I have not yet found this unit yet in my Yak52. Reading from the other mails it seems to be necessary to make sure that the power to the 4201 is clean as a whistle. I can make and design such a filter but before I want to do that I want to make sure that this solves the problem of interference. What are you guys using as a psu (i.e. what dc-dc converter) for the supply of power to the 4201?? Any suggestion is welcomed! Hans Oortman RS3326K _____ Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Frank Stelwagon Verzonden: maandag 6 juli 2009 8:49 Aan: yak-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio The point that the Becker was originally used in Gliders is probably the reason that it is still a 12 volt radio, as 12 volt gell cells are pretty common. I have installed them in a couple of CJ's and they have been fine. We have always used a Sigtronics SP400N intercom and have excellent results. Use push to talk intercom not VOX. I have seen other CJs with other radios that are noisy. One thing that has been mentioned is proper shielding of the "P" leads, a lot of them are in bad shape, also a ground wire from engine case to structure is a good idea. Frank CJ6-A N23021


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:51:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Parachutes
    From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
    As a skydiver with 2000+ jumps, I would tell you not to buy a canopy that is more than acouple of years old. The sun erodes cAnopies. Most containers have limited lifes as well. I own a couple of great looking rigs that cannot legally be repacked because the manufacturers have told the FAA that they do not support rigs older than 10 years. Look great but not legal. That will not impress your local faa ramp checker. Be sure to have a qualified parachute rigger look at any rig before you buy! Mike DeCanio Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251730#251730


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:52:33 AM PST US
    From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    Hans, I have used the Bendix King KA-39 voltage converter several times and it seems to work very well. They can be found on Ebay periodically. Since you have not found your voltage converter in your Yak 52, there is a possibility the 12 volts is being "tapped" from one of the two gel batteries instead of it coming from a voltage converter. Look in your battery compartment for an extra wire on one of the 12 volt battery terminals. I have seen this before. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Oortman To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio Frank, I use the PS-Engineering PM1000, which is functioning great on VOX. I have never had the problem of interference before. When I ferried my Yak from Lithuania to Holland I did not have this problem. During the course of time it simply happened that I could not use my GPS anymore because it was causing interference on my 4201 which did not happen before. I have never been able to explain this. I checked all the screening, all are OK. I have checked the P-leads (including the screening) on the mags, installed Lonestar filters in these p-leads but they don=92t seem to make any difference. I also have the capacitor and the psu filter but I did not install these yet. After this the remaining item to change is the dc-dc converter but I have not yet found this unit yet in my Yak52. Reading from the other mails it seems to be necessary to make sure that the power to the 4201 is clean as a whistle. I can make and design such a filter but before I want to do that I want to make sure that this solves the problem of interference. What are you guys using as a psu (i.e. what dc-dc converter) for the supply of power to the 4201?? Any suggestion is welcomed! Hans Oortman RS3326K ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Frank Stelwagon Verzonden: maandag 6 juli 2009 8:49 Aan: yak-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio The point that the Becker was originally used in Gliders is probably the reason that it is still a 12 volt radio, as 12 volt gell cells are pretty common. I have installed them in a couple of CJ's and they have been fine. We have always used a Sigtronics SP400N intercom and have excellent results. Use push to talk intercom not VOX. I have seen other CJs with other radios that are noisy. One thing that has been mentioned is proper shielding of the "P" leads, a lot of them are in bad shape, also a ground wire from engine case to structure is a good idea. Frank CJ6-A N23021 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhtt p://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:58:35 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Parachutes
    From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com>
    P. S. I would not put a 40 year old canopy on my back. Period. Even if by some miracle it is legal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251733#251733


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:59:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Idling problem...
    From: "Zjopa" <rtthornton@gmail.com>
    Flew yesterday.. Everything normal on the taxi out, run up, and throughout the flight.. Landed after 30 mins, throttled back to idle... and the engine wanted to stop! Had to taxi with a fair amount of power to keep the engine running. Back at the hanger throttled back to Idle.. and she quit! Any ideas as to what might cause such a sudden change??? Water?? Thanks in advance Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251734#251734


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:11:27 AM PST US
    From: "Hans Oortman" <pa3arw@euronet.nl>
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    Dennis, Excellent suggestion.thanks.did not think of that but it might be indeed the reason why I cannot find the dc-dc converter. I'll keep you posted on the progress. Hans RS3326K _____ Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens A. Dennis Savarese Verzonden: maandag 6 juli 2009 15:50 Aan: yak-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Re: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio Hans, I have used the Bendix King KA-39 voltage converter several times and it seems to work very well. They can be found on Ebay periodically. Since you have not found your voltage converter in your Yak 52, there is a possibility the 12 volts is being "tapped" from one of the two gel batteries instead of it coming from a voltage converter. Look in your battery compartment for an extra wire on one of the 12 volt battery terminals. I have seen this before. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Hans Oortman <mailto:pa3arw@euronet.nl> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio Frank, I use the PS-Engineering PM1000, which is functioning great on VOX. I have never had the problem of interference before. When I ferried my Yak from Lithuania to Holland I did not have this problem. During the course of time it simply happened that I could not use my GPS anymore because it was causing interference on my 4201 which did not happen before. I have never been able to explain this. I checked all the screening, all are OK. I have checked the P-leads (including the screening) on the mags, installed Lonestar filters in these p-leads but they don't seem to make any difference. I also have the capacitor and the psu filter but I did not install these yet. After this the remaining item to change is the dc-dc converter but I have not yet found this unit yet in my Yak52. Reading from the other mails it seems to be necessary to make sure that the power to the 4201 is clean as a whistle. I can make and design such a filter but before I want to do that I want to make sure that this solves the problem of interference. What are you guys using as a psu (i.e. what dc-dc converter) for the supply of power to the 4201?? Any suggestion is welcomed! Hans Oortman RS3326K _____ Van: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Frank Stelwagon Verzonden: maandag 6 juli 2009 8:49 Aan: yak-list@matronics.com Onderwerp: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio The point that the Becker was originally used in Gliders is probably the reason that it is still a 12 volt radio, as 12 volt gell cells are pretty common. I have installed them in a couple of CJ's and they have been fine. We have always used a Sigtronics SP400N intercom and have excellent results. Use push to talk intercom not VOX. I have seen other CJs with other radios that are noisy. One thing that has been mentioned is proper shielding of the "P" leads, a lot of them are in bad shape, also a ground wire from engine case to structure is a good idea. Frank CJ6-A N23021 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:10:47 AM PST US
    From: jblake207@COMCAST.NET
    Subject: Re: Parachutes
    Agreed!=C2- They are best used for sun shade at a Saturday afternoon BBQ. =C2- JB ----- Original Message ----- From: "N642K" <mdecanio@mac.com> Sent: Monday, July 6, 2009 8:57:47 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Yak-List: Re: Parachutes P. S. I would not put a 40 year old canopy on my back. Period. Even if by s ome miracle it is legal. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251733#251733 =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. ===========


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:12:07 AM PST US
    From: Walter Lannon <wlannon@persona.ca>
    Subject: Re: Idling problem...
    M14P or Huosai?????? Sounds like a fairly large intake manifold leak. Walt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zjopa" <rtthornton@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Yak-List: Idling problem... > > Flew yesterday.. Everything normal on the taxi out, run up, and throughout > the flight.. > > Landed after 30 mins, throttled back to idle... and the engine wanted to > stop! > Had to taxi with a fair amount of power to keep the engine running. > > Back at the hanger throttled back to Idle.. and she quit! > > Any ideas as to what might cause such a sudden change??? Water?? > > Thanks in advance > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251734#251734 > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:37:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Becker radio noise
    From: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
    Got it. Also, there is a side tone adjustment. Any suggestions on this? Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251776#251776


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:41:25 AM PST US
    From: "Tom Elliott" <N13472@aol.com>
    Subject: Idling problem...
    Check to make sure your primer was/is locked in the closed position. Tom Elliott CJ-6A NX63727 702-595-2680 -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zjopa Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:59 AM Subject: Yak-List: Idling problem... Flew yesterday.. Everything normal on the taxi out, run up, and throughout the flight.. Landed after 30 mins, throttled back to idle... and the engine wanted to stop! Had to taxi with a fair amount of power to keep the engine running. Back at the hanger throttled back to Idle.. and she quit! Any ideas as to what might cause such a sudden change??? Water?? Thanks in advance Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251734#251734


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:42:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    From: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
    Can anyone please explain the best way to shield the p-leads. Mine have been worked on to attempt to install a Horizon tach in the rear with no luck on getting a good signal for the tach. I've looked at the attachment of the stock shielding at the magnetos and they seem fine. I'd like to know, what gage wire to use, best shielding, etc. Also, are there any differences for the tach gen leads (wire gaga, etc). Thanks, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251778#251778


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:49:19 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    From: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
    Dennis: When you used the KA-39 (which I have also) did you shield the lead from the KA-39 to the Becker? The Becker installation diagram does not specify this be shielded. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251783#251783


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:12:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Parachutes
    From: "John Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
    VGhlcmUgaXMgYSBGQUEgdGVuc2lsZSBwdWxsIHRlc3QgZm9yIGZhYnJpYywgcmVnYXJkbGVzcyBv ZiBhZ2UuICBTb21ldGltZXMgbmV3IHN0dWZmIGlzIHdvcnNlIHRoYW4gNDAgeWVhciBvbGQuICBX aGVuIGl0IGNvbWVzIHRvIHdoYXQgeW91IHN1cHBvcnQgeW91ciBsaWZlIHdpdGgsIGEgZ3JlYXQg cGFja2VyIChyaWdnZXIpIGNhbiBiZSBhIGxpZmUgc2F2ZXIuDQoNCiANCg0KV2l0aCB0aGUgVVYg Y29hdGVkIG55bG9ucyAoaW4gbW9kZXJuIGNodXRlcykgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBwcm9jZXNzIGNhbGxl ZCBoeWRyb2x5c2lzIHRoYXQgZGVsYW1pbmF0ZXMgdGhlIGNvYXRpbmcgYW5kIHRoZSBmaWxhbWVu dHMgYmVnaW4gdGhlaXIgb3duIGFnaW5nIHByb2Nlc3Mgd2l0aG91dCByZWdhcmQgdG8gdGhlIGNh bGVuZGFyLiAgU28ga2VlcCB0aGVtIGNvb2wvZHJ5IHdpdGggbG93IGh1bWlkaXR5LiAgY29sb3Ig Y2hhbmdpbmcgZGVzaWNjYW50IHBhY2tzIGZvdW5kIGluIGVuZ2luZSBzcGFyayBwbHVncyBjYW4g aGVscC4NCg0KIA0KDQpKb2huIENveA0KDQogDQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLXlhay1saXN0LXNlcnZl ckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXIteWFrLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b21dIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBqYmxha2UyMDdAY29tY2FzdC5uZXQNClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSnVs eSAwNiwgMjAwOSA3OjU4IEFNDQpUbzogeWFrLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KU3ViamVjdDog UmU6IFlhay1MaXN0OiBSZTogUGFyYWNodXRlcw0KDQogDQoNCkFncmVlZCEgIFRoZXkgYXJlIGJl c3QgdXNlZCBmb3Igc3VuIHNoYWRlIGF0IGEgU2F0dXJkYXkgYWZ0ZXJub29uIEJCUS4gIEpCDQot LS0tLSBPcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlIC0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiTjY0MksiIDxtZGVjYW5pb0BtYWMu Y29tPg0KVG86IHlhay1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSnVseSA2LCAy MDA5IDg6NTc6NDcgQU0gR01UIC0wNjowMCBVUy9DYW5hZGEgQ2VudHJhbA0KU3ViamVjdDogWWFr LUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBQYXJhY2h1dGVzDQoNCi0tPiBZYWstTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTog Ik42NDJLIiA8bWRlY2FuaW9AbWFjLmNvbT4NCg0KUC4gUy4gSSB3b3VsZCBub3QgcHV0IGEgNDAg eWVhciBvbGQgY2Fub3B5IG9uIG15IGJhY2suIFBlcmlvZC4gRXZlbiBpZiBieSBzb21lIG1pcmFj bGUgaXQgaXMgbGVnYWwuDQoNCg0KDQoNClJlYWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVyZToNCg0K aHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL3ZpZXd0b3BpYy5waHA/cD0yNTE3MzMjMjUxNzMz DQoNCg0KDQo8OyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLU1hdD09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0K DQogDQogDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFlhay1MaXN0IEVtYWlsIEZvcnVtIC0N Cl8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0IEZlYXR1cmVzIE5hdmlnYXRvciB0byBicm93c2UN Cl8tPSB0aGUgbWFueSBMaXN0IHV0aWxpdGllcyBzdWNoIGFzIExpc3QgVW4vU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9u LA0KXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFR LA0KXy09IFBob3Rvc2hhcmUsIGFuZCBtdWNoIG11Y2ggbW9yZToNCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0 dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9OYXZpZ2F0b3I/WWFrLUxpc3QNCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8t PSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTUFUUk9OSUNTIFdFQiBGT1JVTVMgLQ0KXy09IFNhbWUgZ3JlYXQg Y29udGVudCBhbHNvIGF2YWlsYWJsZSB2aWEgdGhlIFdlYiBGb3J1bXMhDQpfLT0NCl8tPSAgIC0t PiBodHRwOi8vZm9ydW1zLm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCl8tPQ0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAg ICAtIExpc3QgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uIFdlYiBTaXRlIC0NCl8tPSAgVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3Vy IGdlbmVyb3VzIHN1cHBvcnQhDQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAtTWF0 dCBEcmFsbGUsIExpc3QgQWRtaW4uDQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29t L2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbg0KXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCiANCg=


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:24:33 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Idling problem...
    From: "Zjopa" <rtthornton@gmail.com>
    M-14, and the primer was locked... first thing I checked. I had a water in fuel problem a few hours ago... wondering if there might be some residual?? Vladimir and I thoroughly drained the tanks and the fuel filter... Might try that again today. -------- &quot;Well, boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing... &quot; - Henry Paulson, US Treasury Secretary Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251791#251791


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:55:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
    Craig, just to be sure I understand this ..... Your back seat has a Horizon tach installed and it does not work? Where did they connect to the original P leads in order to get the signals back there? Wire gage and type: Two issues. 1. The size of the wire and shielding going to the mag itself from the MAG SWITCHES. In this case, you probably want to stick to original wire center conductor gages as it is carrying some current, although not THAT much. I would suspect 14 to 16 gage would work just fine but I would not want to go any smaller. But in truth, I really do not KNOW what exact wire gage is required here, so that said, I would go original size, or one size bigger just to be sure. 2. The wire to the electronic tach should not require any current carrying capability really. Here, you could go with 22 gage with no problem at all. In every case, of course the wires should be shielded. The best shielded wire you can buy with the highest density of shielding. Even a double shield if you can find it. Use individual wires with shields, NOT two wires twisted in ONE shield. Tach Gen. Again, I'd say 16-18 gage would be fine, and is shielded as you can get it! I am not really sure I am answering your question. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Craig Winkelmann Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio Can anyone please explain the best way to shield the p-leads. Mine have been worked on to attempt to install a Horizon tach in the rear with no luck on getting a good signal for the tach. I've looked at the attachment of the stock shielding at the magnetos and they seem fine. I'd like to know, what gage wire to use, best shielding, etc. Also, are there any differences for the tach gen leads (wire gaga, etc). Thanks, Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251778#251778


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:34:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Interference Becker 4201 radio
    From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
    Lot's to talk about after reading your message. 1. Disconnect the antenna from the radio and see if the noise goes away. This test will tell us one heck of a lot. Remove antenna at the radio and turn squelch off and listen. 2. The voltage adjusting screw adjusts the bias voltage going to the voltage regulator which controls the generator output voltage. In other words, it adjusts 28 vdc out of the generator. It is a SMALL range of adjustment. BIG adjustments are made at the carbon pile regulator itself. This statement is very perplexing: " When the GPS is connected to the power plug and switched on, the noise level on the VHF opens the squelch which makes it unuseable in flight. Switched off gps: noise is reduced but squelch is still opened 6 out of 10 sec. Disconnected power supply lead from GPS but kept it connected to the plane, same result as GPS being switched off, i.e. the VHF is picking up interference via its antenna but the noise is generated one way or the other on the power bus??" First, just to be absolutely sure, remove the antenna coax at the radio and run your GPS noise tests again. Next, make sure you test Dennis Savarese's idea about where the 12 volts is coming from. Is it coming from a DC to DC converter, or has some one tapped one of two 12 volt batteries in series? Moving on: So you are saying... And please confirm this.... That when you hook the GPS wiring to the aircraft, with the GPS completely removed and not connected and NOT turned on or running by battery power, that merely ADDING THE GPS WIRING ITSELF increases the noise to your radio? And there is NOTHING in that GPS cable at all other than some WIRE? No active elements like a little module or something like that? Just some WIRE? Disconnecting the antenna makes this goes away, get less, stay the same? Squelch off. Where is your GPS power cable tapped into the aircraft wiring? Is it tapped to the same wiring the radio is using? By that I mean, you have 12 volts going to the radio by some method or another... Have you tapped that same 12 volts to power the GPS, or is it coming from a 28 volt wire connected somewhere else in the aircraft? If you are 100% absolutely certain about that all this, as in.. It is connected to the 12 volt source, it has no modules in it at all, it is just a piece of wire.... If that is absolutely without a doubt what is happening... Then there is simply no question that an external noise source is COUPLING into the GPS wiring and then being fed into the Becker via the power supply input wiring. Period. No other possibility. (again, the antenna checks withstanding) Based on that premise, I would then get a little 12 volt sealed battery. Use it to power the radio. Remove the aircraft as the power source. Gell cell or something. It can be very very small since we are not going to transmit, and receive current draw is less than 100 mills or so. That's a guess, but it has to be pretty darn low. The noise to the radio should either go away, or change dramatically. Thinking out loud, it then appears to be the case that the Becker has some design issues regarding rejection of external noise on the power source wiring. We then have a few ways to approach this. 1. Replace the radio. Yeah, I know that idea is less than good, but you have to at least mention it. 2. Reduce the noise sources that are getting into the wiring. That is not going to be very easy. You've already done pretty close to all that can be done. 3. Best solution. Use a TON of filtering on the input wiring to the radio. This filtering method has to be as close to the radio as possible for obvious reasons. This is probably going to have to be a multi-layered approach, because we really do not have any hard ideas on what the noise source frequency range is. Of course, you have to know right up front that EVERY SINGLE WIRE that goes to the Becker is going to have to be shielded. I mean every single one. ANY wire that allows noise to ride up and into the radio has to be considered. Most importantly, the power wiring needs to be shielded. You will need to make some kind of mount close to the radio and start adding whatever filters you want to try. I would try several approaches just for the heck of it... First would be a big cap, very close to the radio, attached to 12 volts and ground. 22,000 mmf or so, at 50 volts. You can start smaller and just see if it helps. Even 5000 mmf should tell you if it helps at all. Torroidal chokes.... Commercial through-line filters. Etc. This is a tough problem. I'm still thinking. On the other hand, if all this just stops dead when you disconnect the antenna, the direction of attack changes dramatically. Mark Bitterlich P.s. I don't think I'll buy a Becker. -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hans Oortman Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 9:02 AM Subject: Yak-List: Interference Becker 4201 radio Mark, I finally made the time available to do the tests/modifications we have talked about with respect to the interference on a Becker VHF radio in my Yak52. I installed the Lonestar P-lead filters on both mags. Found that both screens of the p-leads are in perfect condition but installed the filters , just to make sure. The screening can now be called perfect. I have made a special copper "plug" to fill up for the thinner wires on the filters. The screens of the filter wires have been soldered to those "plugs" and locked in the mags. Everything has been fixed thoroughly and inspected for grounding. All OK so far. Started the engine and found no difference on the VHF, i.e. the interference is still there. That means: the squelch is opened by the interference. Switching off the squelch it appears that there is no constant noise level but more of a kind of rattling noise which opens the squelch. Checked antenna...found no problem or loose wires. Swr is within the airband 1 : 1.5 max. So in my humble opinion there is only 1 thing left: the interference is going into the vhf via the power supply or the power is that "dirty" that it is picked up by the vhf antenna..... I know that the Becker gets its power via a dc-dc converter of some sort, after all the Yak has 24v standard power. Is the 12 volts present on any standard Yak or is there a built in down converter somewhere?? What is the "voltage adjustment" screw meant for in the front cockpit?? Did some tests with the GPS also. When the GPS is connected to the power plug and switched on, the noise level on the VHF opens the squelch which makes it unuseable in flight. Switched off gps: noise is reduced but squelch is still opened 6 out of 10 sec. Disconnected power supply lead from GPS but kept it connected to the plane, same result as GPS being switched off, i.e. the VHF is picking up interference via its antenna but the noise is generated one way or the other on the power bus?? I have come to a point of saturation in my mind about the cause of this. Taking a scope into the cockpit is probably the only way to find out whether there is any noise on the power bus. Probably another way is to power the VHF via the cigarette ligher connector with another dc-dc converter. Thus bypassing the present circuitry but still using the power on board. Any suggestions, thoughts are welcomed! Hans RA3326K Mob: +31 653 286022


    Message 18


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    Time: 12:04:41 PM PST US
    From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio
    I did not. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Winkelmann To: yak-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:48 AM Subject: Yak-List: Re: Inteference Becker 4201 Radio Dennis: When you used the KA-39 (which I have also) did you shield the lead from the KA-39 to the Becker? The Becker installation diagram does not specify this be shielded. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251783#251783


    Message 19


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    Time: 12:18:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Idling problem...
    From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
    Some thoughts: Yes, check for more water. Is this known good fuel? Take a look at fuel pressure at idle. Pull both fuel filters and check them. Run on one mag at a time at idle and make sure it does the same thing on both mags, running on one at a time. Check intake tubes to be sure they are tight at both ends. If you get desperate, and nothing else seems to help, and you are using automotive spark plugs, consider replacing them, and make sure they are gapped correctly. Find a good mechanic. I am not one of those. Vladimir is one of the best. Tell him I said hello. Mark Bitterlich -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zjopa Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:59 AM Subject: Yak-List: Idling problem... Flew yesterday.. Everything normal on the taxi out, run up, and throughout the flight.. Landed after 30 mins, throttled back to idle... and the engine wanted to stop! Had to taxi with a fair amount of power to keep the engine running. Back at the hanger throttled back to Idle.. and she quit! Any ideas as to what might cause such a sudden change??? Water?? Thanks in advance Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251734#251734


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:56:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Interference Becker 4201 radio
    From: "Craig Winkelmann" <capav8r@gmail.com>
    I contacted Becker USA today at lunch and spoke with a tech for about 30 minutes on my noise issue. Two things he mentioned to me. First, the radio is TSOed so it was required to meet FAA specs. many of the other small radios are not TSOed so the Becker seems to be the better choice from an environmental standpoint. Second, the radio was indeed designed for gliders first. Then modified for the FAA TSO requirements. The tech is perplexed because my Garmin SL-30 has not one bit of noise and the power for the Becker is coming from a King KA-39 downconverter and this is the only thing on the converter. The antenna for the SL30 and the Becker were swapped and the noise persisted. His thought is that the RF section of the Becker is too sensitive and that it is picking up engine noise on the antenna. He said the Becker is set up so that you can hear ATC from about 100 miles away (hence very sensitive). He has asked me to remove the radio and send it back to them for RF interference testing. Craig Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251828#251828




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