Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:38 AM - Housai to M14P Conversion (Byron Fox)
2. 11:11 AM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Tom Elliott)
3. 11:20 AM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Joe Howse)
4. 11:36 AM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Donald and Marilyn Andrews)
5. 12:05 PM - Oil question (skidmk)
6. 01:08 PM - Re: Fuel Flow - Hoskins FT 101 Fuel Flow not working (Scott Keadle)
7. 02:13 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 03:44 PM - Housai to M14P Conversion (Sam Sax)
9. 04:08 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Byron Fox)
10. 05:12 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Roger Kemp M.D.)
11. 05:13 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Warren Hill)
12. 05:14 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (dabear)
13. 05:39 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Byron Fox)
14. 05:41 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Byron Fox)
15. 05:55 PM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (KingCJ6@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Housai to M14P Conversion |
New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and MT prop
on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with friends, I've been
accused by some of going over to the dark side.
M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour." "Gets
its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the engine and
TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs better with the MT, but
no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend $50K for marginal improvement?"
"Blitz, I know you're now 70, but
is something wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed
prop to feel like a man?"
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 2
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| Subject: | Housai to M14P Conversion |
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown behind
both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
Objective? Your asking a pilot to be objective about their favorite
mistress? Good luck on that Eh!
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Fox
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and MT prop
on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with friends, I've been
accused by some of going over to the dark side.
M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour." "Gets
its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the engine and
TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs better with the MT, but
no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend $50K for marginal improvement?"
"Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is something wrong with your prostate that
you need a three-bladed prop to feel like a man?"
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown behind
both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Blitz
I ran the M14P conversion on my CJ6, has the extra oomph if you wnt to
use it, flying off our short home strip it was no problem on hot
days or bad wind conditions, nice to have the extra speed available in
the right condions. much smoother with the 3 blade prop than the 2 blade
original.
Joe
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Hi BLitz,
You are a wise man at seventy, on the dark side you will find this; I
have over one thousand hours on my CJ-6 powered by a MP-14 on my last
annual compression check 77/80 this years flight to All Redstar KDVT to
L26 leg with SIX CJ-6s (three CJ6-A/three CJ-6P) two hour flight oil
burn 1/2 quart per hour fuel used 28.5 gals at 68% power. The CJ-6As
turned 2100 RPM to stay up and burned more fuel and oil. Of course we
could have increased our power a little maybe 72/74 % and left the C6-As
behind, that's what the dark side would do, but we pulled the power way
back so we all could stay together.
Don
Stormy
From: Byron Fox
To: Yak LIst
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and MT
prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with friends, I've
been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
"Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the
engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs better
with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend $50K for
marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is something
wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed prop to feel like
a man?"
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 5
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Hi all,,
Phillips is not easy to come by in Ottawa, Ontario. Aeroshell products are very
easy.
I have about 9 litres of the phillips left, and was wondering if I'm doing any
harm/commtting a sin if I add some Aeroshell w100. Or would you recommend I drain
all the phillips before.
M
--------
Mike "Skidmk" Bourget
Ottawa, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253753#253753
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow - Hoskins FT 101 Fuel Flow not working |
[quote="rogrbal"]Hoskins FT 101 Fuel Flow not working:
"...Since doing #2 always fixes it, maybe the problem is in or near this plug?"
Roger,
If doing #2 always fixes it, I suggest that you not use the plug, and maybe see
a gastroenterologist. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
--------
Scott Keadle
14A, Lake Norman Airpark
N426AK RV-10, final assembly
N246SK, Giles 202, flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253763#253763
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
And how many horsepower does the Housai develop at 2350? 285, right?
Now divide 2350 by 2900. What percent is that? 81%. Now multiply that
percent times 360. What horsepower is that? 291 horsepower to be
exact. Hummmm....aren't they amazingly close? Same cubic inches. 620
cu. in. Only 1/10 point difference in compression ratio too. Specific
fuel consumption for both stock engines at the same power settings is
going to be pretty darn close. It's the nature of the beast, unless of
course there are custom modifications to the engines.
Propellers do make a difference. Put a pair of Chinese prop blades into
a Russian hub, (the blades are interchangeable with the Russian paddle
prop blades). Then go fly a specified test plan at the same percent of
power (Housai 285 and M14P powered CJ6) and document the results. I'm
sure everyone on the list would be interested in the results.
I think some of the folks on the list thinking of making the change will
have difficulty justifying the 50K upgrade, particularly after the
results are posted.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: Byron Fox
To: Yak LIst
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:33 AM
Subject: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and MT
prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with friends, I've
been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
"Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the
engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs better
with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend $50K for
marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is something
wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed prop to feel like
a man?"
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 8
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| Subject: | Housai to M14P Conversion |
Blitz,
Does any of your nay sayer advisors own an M-14P power CJ??
Regarding higher consumption of oil/fuel - do these wise aviators experts actually
expect less fuel/oil for the additional horse power...??
The
M-14 for the CJ is like viagra - no matter how young/old we are we
always enjoy the extra oomph... The M-14P gives it too :)
Climb
performance improves dramatically and cruise improves substantially
also (nothing marginal here). The 3 blades adds to the climb/cruise
performance as well. I have been flying mine with a 3 bladed Whirlwind
prop - and I love it. MT is a great choice.
To many of us, the
only substitute to power is MORE power!!! :) You've got the 50 Gs - go
have fun with it, you will not regret it!!! - these are my 2 cents
opinion...
Sam Sax
Miami
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Many thanks, Sam. Well said, and no, all the detractors are Housai
folks. ...Blitz
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Blitz,
>
> Does any of your nay sayer advisors own an M-14P power CJ??
>
> Regarding higher consumption of oil/fuel - do these wise aviators
> experts actually expect less fuel/oil for the additional horse
> power...??
>
> The
> M-14 for the CJ is like viagra - no matter how young/old we are we
> always enjoy the extra oomph... The M-14P gives it too :)
>
> Climb
> performance improves dramatically and cruise improves substantially
> also (nothing marginal here). The 3 blades adds to the climb/cruise
> performance as well. I have been flying mine with a 3 bladed
> Whirlwind
> prop - and I love it. MT is a great choice.
>
> To many of us, the
> only substitute to power is MORE power!!! :) You've got the 50 Gs -
> go
> have fun with it, you will not regret it!!! - these are my 2 cents
> opinion...
>
> Sam Sax
> Miami
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Housai to M14P Conversion |
Blitz,
Come on over to the Dark Side. You gonna love the M-14!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Fox
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
Many thanks, Sam. Well said, and no, all the detractors are Housai
folks. ...Blitz
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2009, at 3:43 PM, Sam Sax <cd001633@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Blitz,
>
> Does any of your nay sayer advisors own an M-14P power CJ??
>
> Regarding higher consumption of oil/fuel - do these wise aviators
> experts actually expect less fuel/oil for the additional horse
> power...??
>
> The
> M-14 for the CJ is like viagra - no matter how young/old we are we
> always enjoy the extra oomph... The M-14P gives it too :)
>
> Climb
> performance improves dramatically and cruise improves substantially
> also (nothing marginal here). The 3 blades adds to the climb/cruise
> performance as well. I have been flying mine with a 3 bladed
> Whirlwind
> prop - and I love it. MT is a great choice.
>
> To many of us, the
> only substitute to power is MORE power!!! :) You've got the 50 Gs -
> go
> have fun with it, you will not regret it!!! - these are my 2 cents
> opinion...
>
> Sam Sax
> Miami
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Byron,
Just bought a 1983 CJ-6A that came with a low time Housai-6 and prop
only recently out of the box from China. Before that, I had the
pleasure of doing some initial training in one with the larger M14 and
a two blade prop. I think that I can be objective.
My take as someone new to this airplane is that there is a significant
difference between the two engines, especially during vertical
maneuvers. Climb rate and speed are way better with the M14. With the
Housai, the CJ is a docile, lovely aerobatic airplane that is a
delight to fly, but I wish it had a better climb rate. The M14 I flew
several weeks ago was a noticeably more powerful platform.
When I can afford it, in several years I'll probably be hanging a M14.
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 19, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Byron Fox wrote:
> New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and
> MT prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with
> friends, I've been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
>
> M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
> "Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the
> engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs
> better with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend
> $50K for marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is
> something wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed prop
> to feel like a man?"
>
> You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
> behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
>
> Many thanks, Blitz
>
> --
> Byron M. Fox
> 80 Milland Drive
> Mill Valley, CA 94941
> 415-307-2405
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Blitz or FOP (Father of Potus)
I have the M14P (stock engine) and the MT Prop. I have 400 hours on the
engine, 400 hours on the CJ with the 285.
Pro's
Increased Cruise speed - not dramatic, but 5-10kts
Increased Climb Rate - DRAMATIC with the MT prop
Increased climb out of short fields
Instant seat of the pants trust
Flying cross country loose formation with other CJs or Yak-52s, I have
to throttle so far back I'm burning 11-11.5 Gal/hour
With MT Prop, smoother running engine,
Con's
Cost of Conversion
SLIGHT increase in fuel consumption (but then again, I have more HP - no
free lunch)
Other Thoughts
I burn/leak/blow out a little less than a litter an hour of oil, but
then again, my Housai lost the same or a little more.
I did the conversion when I needed to replace the housai. I would NEVER
go back to the Housai/285hp. If I had to replace my CJ, it would be
with another M14P powered CJ.
The 50k you mention really isn't the cost of the upgrade. If you
subtract what a housai engine would cost (18-20k), the cost of the
upgrade is really only 25-30k.
I don't think you'd be dispointed. But give me a call if you want to
talk further.
DaBear
----- Original Message -----
From: Byron Fox
To: Yak LIst
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and MT
prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with friends, I've
been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
"Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the
engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs better
with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend $50K for
marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is something
wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed prop to feel like
a man?"
You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
Many thanks, Blitz
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Many thanks, Bear. Solid comments. ...B
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2009, at 5:14 PM, "dabear" <Dabear@damned.org> wrote:
> Blitz or FOP (Father of Potus)
>
> I have the M14P (stock engine) and the MT Prop. I have 400 hours on
> the engine, 400 hours on the CJ with the 285.
>
> Pro's
> Increased Cruise speed - not dramatic, but 5-10kts
> Increased Climb Rate - DRAMATIC with the MT prop
> Increased climb out of short fields
> Instant seat of the pants trust
> Flying cross country loose formation with other CJs or Yak-52s, I
> have to throttle so far back I'm burning 11-11.5 Gal/hour
> With MT Prop, smoother running engine,
>
> Con's
> Cost of Conversion
> SLIGHT increase in fuel consumption (but then again, I have more HP
> - no free lunch)
>
>
> Other Thoughts
> I burn/leak/blow out a little less than a litter an hour of oil, but
> then again, my Housai lost the same or a little more.
>
> I did the conversion when I needed to replace the housai. I would
> NEVER go back to the Housai/285hp. If I had to replace my CJ, it
> would be with another M14P powered CJ.
>
>
> The 50k you mention really isn't the cost of the upgrade. If you
> subtract what a housai engine would cost (18-20k), the cost of the
> upgrade is really only 25-30k.
>
>
> I don't think you'd be dispointed. But give me a call if you want
> to talk further.
>
>
> DaBear
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Byron Fox
> To: Yak LIst
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 12:33 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Housai to M14P Conversion
>
> New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and
> MT prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with
> friends, I've been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
>
> M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
> "Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up the
> engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs
> better with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to spend
> $50K for marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70, but is
> something wrong with your prostate that you need a three-bladed prop
> to feel like a man?"
>
> You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
> behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
>
> Many thanks, Blitz
>
> --
> Byron M. Fox
> 80 Milland Drive
> Mill Valley, CA 94941
> 415-307-2405
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Many thanks, Warren. ...Blitz
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 19, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Warren Hill <k7wx@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Byron,
>
> Just bought a 1983 CJ-6A that came with a low time Housai-6 and prop
> only recently out of the box from China. Before that, I had the
> pleasure of doing some initial training in one with the larger M14
> and a two blade prop. I think that I can be objective.
>
> My take as someone new to this airplane is that there is a
> significant difference between the two engines, especially during
> vertical maneuvers. Climb rate and speed are way better with the
> M14. With the Housai, the CJ is a docile, lovely aerobatic airplane
> that is a delight to fly, but I wish it had a better climb rate. The
> M14 I flew several weeks ago was a noticeably more powerful platform.
>
> When I can afford it, in several years I'll probably be hanging a M14.
>
> Warren Hill
> Mesa, AZ
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Byron Fox wrote:
>
>> New partner, Brian Neunzig, and I are planning to hang an M14P and
>> MT prop on our CJ come October. Since sharing that news with
>> friends, I've been accused by some of going over to the dark side.
>>
>> M14P horror stories abound. "Burns a quart of oil or more an hour."
>> "Gets its 360 hp by turning at 2900 rpm instead of 2350. Eats up
>> the engine and TBOs at 500 hours." "Burns a lot more gas." "Climbs
>> better with the MT, but no faster in cruise." "So, you want to
>> spend $50K for marginal improvement?" "Blitz, I know you're now 70,
>> but is something wrong with your prostate that you need a three-
>> bladed prop to feel like a man?"
>>
>> You get the drift. So, we'd enjoy hearing from those who have flown
>> behind both engines. Try, try to be objective.
>>
>> Many thanks, Blitz
>>
>> --
>> Byron M. Fox
>> 80 Milland Drive
>> Mill Valley, CA 94941
>> 415-307-2405
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
If Blitz has 900 hours on the Housai, it still has great compression and
Doug believes it will go to 2,000 hours if well maintained, this is simply a
digressionary upgrade, not a necessary replacement.
Undeniably the conversion will provide a significant increase in climb
capability, but when you operate out of Petaluma at 87" MSL, this benefit is
of marginal usefulness.
>From a cruse speed perspective, most note a 5-10 kt increase, maybe
more/maybe less. Assume a 10 kt increase - that's $5,000/kt increase, and if
the
new President's planned tax increase passes, you's need to earn and save
about $8,000 for each increased knot. A good wax job and tune-up will
probably give you a knot or two for substantially less!
If supplemental stimulus or TARP funds are available, why not...if not?
Dave
In a message dated 7/19/2009 5:15:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Dabear@damned.org writes:
The 50k you mention really isn't the cost of the upgrade. If you subtract
what a housai engine would cost (18-20k), the cost of the upgrade is
really only 25-30k.
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
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