Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - OSH Parachute repack (John Graham)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Housai to M14P Conversion (Barry Hancock)
3. 08:21 AM - M14P (Jerry Painter)
4. 09:10 AM - Housai to M14P Conversion (Terry Calloway)
5. 01:23 PM - Re: OSH Parachute repack (Dave \)
6. 03:34 PM - Fuel injected M-14's 420hp (Jerry Painter)
7. 03:53 PM - Re: Fuel injected M-14's 420hp (Byron Fox)
8. 04:49 PM - Re: Fuel injected M-14's 420hp (kevin kimball)
9. 06:50 PM - Re: OSH Parachute repack (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OSH Parachute repack |
Good morning,=0A=0ADoes anyone have information about whether we can get ou
r parachutes repacked at Oshkosh / AirVenture next week?- I have called t
hem but no one had any information.- Thanks,=0A=0AJohn=0A-John P. Graha
m=0ACubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com=0ACell phone (630) 390-9451 =0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Housai to M14P Conversion |
Gang,
I have a bunch of time behind both engines. Lots of good info so far,
and the consensus seems pretty solidly in favor of the M14P - which I
agree with. The M14P with a 3-bladed prop (choose your flavor) is
going to double, yes double, your initial climb rate from approx. 1200
fpm to 2200-2500 fpm. However, I wouldn't count on 5-10 knots extra
in cruise based on the same fuel consumption. Additionally, 5 knots
over a two hour flight is good for about 4 minutes, if Uncle Math is
correct.
That being said here are the other practical differences and
similarities between the two engines that I would factor in to a
decision on upgrading:
-TBO will be approximately the same. Spend the extra money and get a
zero time, first overhaul. Make sure the overhaul comes from a
reputable facility.
-Oil consumption is roughly the same. The Housai runs just fine on
20/50 or 50W, the M14P really requires 25/60 or 60W.
-Support for the M14P is better (more sources for parts, more engines
in operation, etc.)
-Domestic overhaul facilities are gearing up to support the M14P,
which has yet to happen with the Housai. No one provides complete OH
services for the M14P yet, but there is more than one reputable shop
moving in that direction.
Performance differences that I think are important to consider are:
-the added climb performance of the "P" gives an added safety margin
-the added drag of the 3 blade decreases your glide distance and
engine out options (there's a price to pay for any design, right?)
-that same climb performance translates into a much more capable
aerobatic platform. You can do vertical maneuvers with the "P" and
gain altitude....try that with the Housai.
-Greater position keeping ability in more aggressive formation flying
or on the outside in larger formations. Both the added thrust and
extra breaking power are a nice advantage.
All of this being said, the Housai is a great engine and is adequate
for most flying. I, however, like the M14P for the added safety of
the higher climb rate, better support, better acro capability, sweeter
sound, and better looks (the latter two being subjective).
Incidentally, I've written a "CJ-6 Pilot Report" that is on our web
site. It needs a little refinement still, but some of you may find it
interesting. If you find any typos or misinformation, I'd be happy to
hear about it off list.
http://www.worldwidewarbirds.com/pdfs/CJ6_Pilot_Report.pdf
Hope this helps!
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444 office
(949) 300-5510 cell
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
"Making your warbird dreams a reality!"
Message 3
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Blitz-
Can't say I've flown a CJ with an M-14 (tho I have a few hours behind
260
and 285hp CJ's), but I've spent (so to speak) a little time in -52's
with
360 and 400hp and can tell you with a straight face there is absolutely
no
comparison between a 285hp Nanchang and any -52 in terms of acceleration
and
climb, 360 or 400hp. Better yet, get one of those 420hp fuel injected
M-14's that Demars is building. Better fuel specifics, too. Don't want
to
burn more fuel? Just pull back on the money lever--problem solved. As
Dennis says, the engines are very, very similar, except for extra RPM
and
manifold pressure, so just throttle back and get just about the same or
maybe even better (fuel injected) hp and fuel specifics as a Huosai.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
wild.blue@verizon.net
www.FlyWBA.com <http://www.flywba.com/>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Housai to M14P Conversion |
Some additional comments on Barry's response.
> -Oil consumption is roughly the same. The Housai runs just fine on
> 20/50 or 50W, the M14P really requires 25/60 or 60W.
**** Not with total seal oil rings. My M-14 uses around 1 quart every
5 hours.
> -Domestic overhaul facilities are gearing up to support the M14P,
> which has yet to happen with the Housai. No one provides complete
> OH services for the M14P yet, but there is more than one reputable
> shop moving in that direction.
**** Barrett Precision Engines in Tulsa, Oklahoma is completely
rebuilding engines. The only thing they have not completed is their
Dyno. They did my engine for exactly what they quoted me also. I
recommend Avcraft in Nebraska for the install. They did my install in
budget and ON TIME.
> -Greater position keeping ability in more aggressive formation
> flying or on the outside in larger formations. Both the added
> thrust and extra breaking power are a nice advantage.
**** This can be a disadvantage to the wingman because of the braking
effect of the prop. So the M-14 driver needs to be smooth.
Good luck Blitz!
Pumper
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Parachute repack |
Strong will do them at the Warbird briefing room.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Graham
To: Yak list
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 7:16 AM
Subject: Yak-List: OSH Parachute repack
Good morning,
Does anyone have information about whether we can get our parachutes
repacked at Oshkosh / AirVenture next week? I have called them but no
one had any information. Thanks,
John
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (630) 390-9451
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuel injected M-14's 420hp |
Hey Blitz--
Oooops! Did I say Dick DeMars (yes, I did). Nope. Shame on me. Shut my
mouth. Shoulda said Monty Barrett. Http://www.bpaengines.com With a 102
inch wide blade MTV-9 expect to pull about 1850 lbs of thrust. That'll put
any HS-6 waaaaaay in the shade. Oh, and don't forget the auto plug mod etc
while you're at it. Seems I heard they've also got an electronic ignition
system, too. Not sure. Hmmmm. Anyway, Balls Out!!! Hair on Fire!! Etc.
Etc.
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
425-876-0865
wild.blue@verizon.net
www.FlyWBA.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injected M-14's 420hp |
Thanks again!
On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:33 PM, Jerry Painter <wild.blue@verizon.net>wrote:
>
> Hey Blitz--
>
> Oooops! Did I say Dick DeMars (yes, I did). Nope. Shame on me. Shut my
> mouth. Shoulda said Monty Barrett. Http://www.bpaengines.com With a 102
> inch wide blade MTV-9 expect to pull about 1850 lbs of thrust. That'll put
> any HS-6 waaaaaay in the shade. Oh, and don't forget the auto plug mod etc
> while you're at it. Seems I heard they've also got an electronic ignition
> system, too. Not sure. Hmmmm. Anyway, Balls Out!!! Hair on Fire!! Etc.
> Etc.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> wild.blue@verizon.net
> www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
--
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel injected M-14's 420hp |
We are currently installing our 3rd Barrett M14 in a new model 12
build we are completing. The first 2 are performing GREAT in the
Ti-12 and BEAST. One other one, actually the first BPE M14P to be
delivered is the one Calloway posted about in his CJ6 (total of 3 BPE
engines flying now). We are seeing higher cruise speeds at less fuel
burn with the Barrett mods, airflow injection, etc. Oil temps are WAY
down, CHT way down, oil consumption is very low as Terry pointed out
at fractions of a quart per hour. Auto plug conversion is from Dennis
and work great. Electronic ignition is in development at BPE but not
yet on the market. BPE is not only overhauling M14 engines but are
working on creating replacements for many parts needed including
gaskets, lock tabs, etc. BPE is here to support the M14 series into
the future.
We did the static thrust tests on the BPE engines with the same
equipment as we have used on 540 lycomings, stock M14P and M14PF
engines. The BPE engine makes the same static thrust as the M14PF but
at a lower MP. Some numbers for you:
All with 102" Mt -29 props
M14P 34"mp, 2900 rpm 1560 lb thrust
M14PF 40" mp, 2980 rpm 1850 lb thrust
M14P BPE 38" mp, 2950 rpm 1845 lb thrust
11:1 Lycon IO540 2850 rpm 1245lb thrust
BTW, the BEAST with it's BPE M14P has been making a lot of XC flights
with an Extra 300L. They burn the same gas at the same cruise
speeds. Yep lycoming and M14 burning the same amount of fuel.
Another note is that the oil doesn't instantly turn black from blow by
in the BPE M14P. It stays cleaner like a lycoming.
Sincerely,
Kevin Kimball, Vice President
Jim Kimball Enterprises, Inc.
PO Box 849
5354 Cemetery Road
Zellwood, FL 32798-0829
407.889.3451 phone
407.889.7168 fax
www.pittsmodel12.com
www.jimkimballenterprises.com
Email: Kevin@jimkimballenterprises.com
On Jul 20, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Jerry Painter wrote:
> <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> Hey Blitz--
>
> Oooops! Did I say Dick DeMars (yes, I did). Nope. Shame on me.
> Shut my
> mouth. Shoulda said Monty Barrett. Http://www.bpaengines.com With
> a 102
> inch wide blade MTV-9 expect to pull about 1850 lbs of thrust.
> That'll put
> any HS-6 waaaaaay in the shade. Oh, and don't forget the auto plug
> mod etc
> while you're at it. Seems I heard they've also got an electronic
> ignition
> system, too. Not sure. Hmmmm. Anyway, Balls Out!!! Hair on
> Fire!! Etc.
> Etc.
>
> Jerry Painter
> Wild Blue Aviation
> 425-876-0865
> wild.blue@verizon.net
> www.FlyWBA.com
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Parachute repack |
In a message dated 7/20/2009 8:22:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
cubflyer1940@yahoo.com writes:
Most likely there is usually a gal from Strong Parachutes who does
repacking. I've never seen her NOT there.
Pappy
Good morning,
Does anyone have information about whether we can get our parachutes
repacked at Oshkosh / AirVenture next week? I have called them but no one had
any information. Thanks,
John
John P. Graham
CubFlyer1940@Yahoo.com
Cell phone (630) 390-9451
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
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