Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - OSH Day 1 Sunday (cjpilot710@aol.com)
2. 05:43 AM - Tail Numbers (Cpayne)
3. 09:10 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (jblake207@COMCAST.NET)
4. 09:56 AM - Re: CJ-6A tool kit (doug sapp)
5. 10:00 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (Warren Hill)
6. 10:13 AM - Re: Front prop shaft seal (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E)
7. 11:21 AM - 18T fabruc (Joe Howse)
8. 11:36 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (Roger Kemp M.D.)
9. 01:44 PM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (netmaster15@juno.com)
10. 06:21 PM - OSH 2009 Day 2 Monday (cjpilot710@aol.com)
11. 08:23 PM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (Roger Kemp M.D.)
12. 09:26 PM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (ACTIVE NZ - Andrew)
13. 11:22 PM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (netmaster15@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OSH Day 1 Sunday |
Mostly a very nice day. Some light in the late afternoon during the WB
picnic. Got a little damp standing in line waiting for the chicken, beans
and salad.
FREE BEER and NO LIMIT. This party lasted a long time. And met old
friends and made new ones. I LOVE THE WB COMMUNITY.
15 airplanes on the line. About half Yaks and half CJs. A number of new
folks. More to come in on Wednesday.
The ride up from FL on Saturday, took most of the day. Weather looked
terrible but we sailed though it with nar a drop. Most of our delay getting
here was trying meet up with different folks, and 2 mechanical problems.
Had to leave GoatBoy at C16, because of his tail wheel, but he showed up
later the next day.
Well got to go to work. Oh the trials and tribulations of being a RPA
pilot.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
yExcfooterNO62)
Message 2
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As i understand it the chinese use one scheme for training aircraft and another
for tactical. For the 5 digit scheme the first 2 digits plus the 4th define
the regiment/squadron while the 3rd and 5th numbers are unique to the aircraft.
Seems that the 3rd digit may be another unit ID. Any way, the Nose number is
derived from the 3rd and last number. hus mya A/C tail # is 51885 and the buzz
# is 85. The '85' comes not from the last 2 numbers as as mentioned above. Go
figure your number.
There were 6 CJ training regiments at one time, this dropped to 4 and now 2 plus
a "special training" regiment with it's own number. It's been a few years since
I surfed their current inventory. What I have wondered is if some CJ's were
issued to tactical squadrons as "hacks"??
Craig Payne
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum structural cruise |
Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ.=C2- Developed fr
om the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp,
Savarese and others.=C2-
If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk and tha
t this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data... blah, blah, b
lah.=C2- I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.=C2-
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Fellow CJ-ers,
I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum =C2-
structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box =C2
-
> and the prop shaft.
>
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: CJ-6A tool kit |
Walt,The "complete" kit has a bunch of tools in which you will never use.
The canvas roll is kinda cool though.
You need the following: (some of which I have in stock at this time)
** IN STOCK
1. Cyl base nut wrench **
2. Gland nut spanner (intake nuts to super charger)
3. intake and exhaust nut spanner (nuts on cyls)
4. the 2 tools for adjusting the valves**
5. tool for removing the oil screen
6. set of prop tools**
7. Spark plug tool for #6 cyl
Tools handy/nice to have when you need them:
1. Punch for removing the nose wheel axle
2. tool for adjusting the pneumatic timing**
3. tool for removing the inner wheel bearing from the axle**
4. Top dead center tool
5. reg spark plug tool**
6. strut filler with guage
7. tail jack**
8. headed engine support jack
9. stub wing jacks
10. Chinese grease gun
Hope this helps.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Warren Hill <k7wx@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> Looking for a complete CJ-6A tool kit. Any ideas where I might find one?
>
> Warren Hill
> Mesa, AZ
>
> On Jul 26, 2009, at 8:56 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
>
> G'Day Doc,
>>
>> Thanks for that. Doyou have an email address for the guys at West London
>> Aero Club?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Roger Kemp M.D.
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:16 PM
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Prop Shaft seal
>>
>> Chris,
>> Do a search in the Matronics archives for approximately 3 years ago. I
>> have forgotten the gentleman=92s name in New Jersey that had or has a S
ukoi.
>> He=92s a acro competitor kind of guy. He had to pull the nose case on hi
s
>> M-14. There is a =93special=94 tool that is needed to remove the nose c
ase.
>> The guys at West London Aero club can probably help out with some advis
e
>> also along with supplying the =93tool=94 needed to pull the case off the
prop
>> shaft.
>> Doc
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Wise
>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:19 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: Prop Shaft seal
>>
>> G'Day,
>>
>> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
>> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
>> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
>> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box and
>> the prop shaft.
>>
>> Thanks and Cheers,
>> Chris.
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
c
>>
>> Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum structural cruise |
JB,
Thanks. Very helpful.
I have seen maximum structural cruise (Vno, top of green arc) listed
on one CJ site as 153 knots (282 KmH or 176 MPH). This seems a little
low, but wanted to double check. Did not see Vno mentioned on your V-
speed list.
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 27, 2009, at 8:47 AM, jblake207@COMCAST.NET wrote:
> Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ. Developed
> from the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like
> Pappy, Sapp, Savarese and others.
>
> If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk
> and that this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data...
> blah, blah, blah. I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.
>
> JB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
> Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>
>
> Fellow CJ-ers,
>
> I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum
> structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
>
> Warren Hill
> Mesa, AZ
>
> On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
>
> > G'Day,
> >
> > Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> > The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> > The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> > Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box
> > and the prop shaft.
> >
> > Thanks and Cheers,
> > Chris.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =========
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Front prop shaft seal |
There is a front case seal on the M-14 that becomes especially pronounced when
you do aerobatics. The seal is rather interesting to replace and requires a
special tool to get at. It is a round like a big socket, but has "segmented teeth"
on the front of it to mate with the part on the aircraft that you have to
loosen up. This thing has some serious torque on it and requires a long breaker
bar to turn while removing.
I know Sergei Boriak and Hubie Tolson had to replace theirs, and I watched them
doing it. Also Vladimir Yastremski might know where to find one. The tool required
is hard to get ahold of and is NOT in the normal toolboxes.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Walter Lannon
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Front prop shaft seal
Have you checked the M14P Manual. If you are describing a leak from the area of
the engine front section (gearbox) immediately behind the propellor mounting
flange it is possible that there is no seal to change.
That would be the case with Pratt & Whitney engines that rely on a "slinger ring"
to return thrust bearing lube oil to the crank case.
Since I do not have the manual in front of me I don't know if that is the case
with the M14P. If it is you may want to consider the possibility of a front
case vent problem.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Wise <mailto:wise@txc.net.au>
To: yak-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: Yak-List: Front prop shaft seal
G'Day,
The prop shaft front seal my friends Yak 18T has decided to have a hemorrhage
and is leaking like a sieve.
We are about to remove the front section and replace the seal.
Have any of you done this seal replacement and if so, are there any intricate
snags that we should be aware of?
Any advice before we start this job would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks and cheers,
Chris.
Message 7
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Just completing the fabric on our 18T and not happy withe the fabric
attachment at the inboard end of the wing fabric.
where it is stitched and and the finishing tape glued to the metal skin,
thinking of installing a metal strip over the last tape
Any ideas?
Joe
Message 8
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Just rememberthe ass you bust maybe your own.
doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jblake207@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ. Developed from
the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp,
Savarese and others.
If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk and
that this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data... blah,
blah, blah. I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Fellow CJ-ers,
I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum
structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box
> and the prop shaft.
>
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List =========
Message 9
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Doc, How many people do you know who have "busted their asses" due to
exceeding max structural cruise without exceeding Vne? This should rai
se the questions: What is max structural cruise meant to protect? and, I
s max structural cruise a "LIMITATION" , or a NORMAL OPERATION PROCEDURE
? If the latter, then, I submit it is no different than any other number
within the yellow arc and does not deserve to be over dignified beyond
those numbers within such parameter. In other words, it is nothing more
than cocktail information. If one insists upon operating within the yell
ow arc, do not encounter turbulent air lest you exceed MAX GUST LOAD; no
w there IS a number you should know and understand beyond the cocktail
hour.
Cliff Umscheid
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Just rememberthe ass you bust maybe your own.<?xml:namespace pr
efix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of jblake207@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ. Developed from
the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp
, Savarese and others.
If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk and
that this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data... blah, b
lah, blah. I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Fellow CJ-ers,
I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum
structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box
> and the prop shaft.
>
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List =========
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
=======
Message 10
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| Subject: | OSH 2009 Day 2 Monday |
Well the weather started out very pleasant. High overcast with temp in
the mid 70's.
We launched 8 aircraft for the "WB Arrival" part of the show. During
run-up we were able to see White Night 2 landing along with a DH Caribou.
Right after takeoff, I noted a BIG ass CB to the west and it didn't but a
minute to figure it was headed right our way. I knew pretty quick that our
flight time was going to be short and our TOT was out of the question.
Passing 500 feet my #3 (1-3) called for a return and landing because he had
lost his alternator. Airboss gave him an immediate clearance to land.
My #4 man moved up smartly.
Soon Airboss had his hands full trying to get a bunch of WB arrivals in
ahead of that CB while we held just 4nm east of 27. Soon it became our turn
and we were on the ground, tie down and debriefing in our tent when the
rains came.
Block to block time was :45.
The rest of the entire show was rained out.
Forecast for tomorrow is about the same. 20 aircraft on the RPA line.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
=JulystepsfooterNO115)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Cliff,
AnswerYes I know of 2 aircraft that went down while operating
in structural cruise =9CLimitation=9D as you say. Both were
Class A accidents with 2 fatalities in each. One an F-5F and the other a
T-38. I served as the flight surgeon representative to the SIB (safety
investigation board) on the F-5 and I was the interim representative on
the T-38 SIB. Four men died while operating their aircraft within
=9C NORMAL OPERATION PROCEDURE=99 as you say. We call it
differently since we don=99t have a yellow arcs on our airspeed
indicators. Incidentally, one of the IP=99s in the F-5 was a good
friend of mine. So yes, I know firsthand of two aircraft that failed
while operating within their envelope.
Now the question I have for you is: Are you prepared to totally bet your
rosy pink on whatever Red Star Aircraft it is you are flying? Have you
NDI=99d/ magnafluxed your aircraft to determine if you have metal
fatigue or not. Its=99 a military aircraft not a spam can. It was
and is operated like or as a military aircraft. Cruise limits
don=99t exist. Vne and G limits do. An you do not know for dead
nuts sure what the real structural (read metal fatigue state) integrity
of your spare or spine is. You can only hope that the entries in that
Eastern bloc aircraft=99s log book really were done and not just
pencil whipped. Granted, these aircraft are tough as nails but so are/
were the F-5, T-38, F-15, A-10, and the F-16. Their wing are cracking.
In some cases the wings are falling off as well as their dorsal spines
are breaking. You just never know.
Ohmake it 3 aircraft that I know of that =9C broke
up=9D while operating within their =9C NORMAL OPERATING
LIMITS=9D. I believe the St Louis Guard lost a twin tail sissy
to structural failure while operating =9C in normal ops
limits=9D approximately a year and a half ago. That Eagle driver
was lucky, he got out with a shattered elbow and some contusions. Rumor
has it they are still extracting fragments of seat cushion from his rosy
pink after he sucked it up while tumbling/ somersaulting in the pit
while trying to figure out why his jet was not responding any longer.
By the way my comment initially was made in jest in response to
Saber=99s last line of his post. I was not aware we had a
=9CMAX GUST LOAD=9D on the YAK. Maybe the CJ does. G
limits yesVne yes max crosswind limits
yes.Max Gust Load ???
We do not have cocktail hours in any of the squadrons I have served
with either. Either the beer light was lit or it was not. The beer
light was lit when the last jet landed. Cocktail hour...
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
netmaster15@juno.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Doc, How many people do you know who have "busted their asses" due to
exceeding max structural cruise without exceeding Vne? This should
raise the questions: What is max structural cruise meant to protect?
and, Is max structural cruise a "LIMITATION" , or a NORMAL OPERATION
PROCEDURE? If the latter, then, I submit it is no different than any
other number within the yellow arc and does not deserve to be over
dignified beyond those numbers within such parameter. In other words, it
is nothing more than cocktail information. If one insists upon operating
within the yellow arc, do not encounter turbulent air lest you exceed
MAX GUST LOAD; now there IS a number you should know and understand
beyond the cocktail hour.
Cliff Umscheid
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Just remember=C3=A2=82=AC=C2the ass you bust maybe your own.
doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jblake207@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ. Developed from
the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp,
Savarese and others.
If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk and
that this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data... blah,
blah, blah. I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Fellow CJ-ers,
I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum
structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box
> and the prop shaft.
>
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List =========
ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tronics.com
www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 12
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Doc, Thankyou for your response on the subject of " max structural crui
se" . If I understand you correctly we are both saying the same thing;
the water gets a bit muddy when we try to reconcile simantic differences
. eg, reference your first paragraph: " .....while operating in STRUCT
URAL CRUISE LIMITATION...." Please define "structural cruise". Also, w
hat discipline categorizes structural cruise as a LIMITATION as opposed
to a NORMAL OPERATING condition? All Operations Manuals I have been exp
osed to in the last 63 years cite Limitations as Vne, VA, Vlo, Vle, Vfe,
max allow. TO Gr WT, max fuel, max tire speed, max pressure differential
, max operating altitude, plus several other operating limitations. All
these limitations are derived from one source; the TYPE CERTIFICATE AND
DATA SHEETS and amendments thereto, eg, supplemental type certificates i
f applicable. Also in your first paragraph you use the phrase "....whil
e operating within their envelope...." But you do not specify what enve
lope you're referring to. I agree, there is no yellow arc on the airspee
d indicator in an F-5 but there is certainly a Mach meter and a Max Mach
operating LIMITATION. Plainly, it is very difficult to translate termi
nology between two different disciplines.
I'll have to finish this treatise at a later time; I'm already beyond m
y curfew limitation. I look forward to your continuing thoughts on this
subject. BTW, I currently own and fly both a YAK -50 and a Harmon Rock
et and you're correct, I don't want any major dissassemblies at altitud
e so I'm always alert for new ways to assure the aircraft remains in reu
seable condition. Cheers!
Cliff
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew@nzactive.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
=EF=BB
DOC Please excuse me for intruding on your list. I fly a Harmon Rocket,
(mainly) but eavesdrop on the Yak list cos I'm in a partnership that is
rebuilding a Yak-3 in New Zealand. Anyway... I have been concerned about
this issue for some time, in my Harmon Rocket. It goes kinda fast, and
sometimes I hit pretty harsh bumps when I'm flying in the yellow arc. (y
eah, I know, I should anticipate better.) I've often wondered if there's
a way to check for metal fatigue or overstressing - is this magnaflux t
hing something that can be done to wing and horizontal stablizer spars?
Is it a reasonably common procedure (ie, likely to be available in NZ)..
.or a real specialist kinda thing? Andrew<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns
= "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:30 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Cliff,
AnswerYes I know of 2 aircraft that went down while operating i
n structural cruise =9CLimitation=9D as you say. Both were C
lass A accidents with 2 fatalities in each. One an F-5F and the other a
T-38. I served as the flight surgeon representative to the SIB (safety i
nvestigation board) on the F-5 and I was the interim representative on t
he T-38 SIB. Four men died while operating their aircraft within
=9C NORMAL OPERATION PROCEDURE=99 as you say. We call it different
ly since we don=99t have a yellow arcs on our airspeed indicators.
Incidentally, one of the IP=99s in the F-5 was a good friend of m
ine. So yes, I know firsthand of two aircraft that failed while opera
ting within their envelope.
Now the question I have for you is: Are you prepared to totally bet your
rosy pink on whatever Red Star Aircraft it is you are flying? Have you
NDI=99d/ magnafluxed your aircraft to determine if you have metal
fatigue or not. Its=99 a military aircraft not a spam can. It was
and is operated like or as a military aircraft. Cruise limits don=99
t exist. Vne and G limits do. An you do not know for dead nuts sure what
the real structural (read metal fatigue state) integrity of your spare
or spine is. You can only hope that the entries in that Eastern bloc ai
rcraft=99s log book really were done and not just pencil whipped.
Granted, these aircraft are tough as nails but so are/ were the F-5, T-
38, F-15, A-10, and the F-16. Their wing are cracking. In some cases the
wings are falling off as well as their dorsal spines are breaking. You
just never know.
Ohmake it 3 aircraft that I know of that =9C broke up
=9D while operating within their =9C NORMAL OPERATING LIMITS
=9D. I believe the St Louis Guard lost a twin tail sissy to structural
failure while operating =9C in normal ops limits=9D approxi
mately a year and a half ago. That Eagle driver was lucky, he got out wi
th a shattered elbow and some contusions. Rumor has it they are still ex
tracting fragments of seat cushion from his rosy pink after he sucked it
up while tumbling/ somersaulting in the pit while trying to figure out
why his jet was not responding any longer.
By the way my comment initially was made in jest in response to Saber
=99s last line of his post. I was not aware we had a =9CMAX GUS
T LOAD=9D on the YAK. Maybe the CJ does. G limits yesVn
e yes max crosswind limits yes.Max Gust Load ???
We do not have cocktail hours in any of the squadrons I have served wit
h either. Either the beer light was lit or it was not. The beer light w
as lit when the last jet landed. Cocktail hour...
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of netmaster15@juno.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Doc, How many people do you know who have "busted their asses" due to
exceeding max structural cruise without exceeding Vne? This should rai
se the questions: What is max structural cruise meant to protect? and, I
s max structural cruise a "LIMITATION" , or a NORMAL OPERATION PROCEDURE
? If the latter, then, I submit it is no different than any other number
within the yellow arc and does not deserve to be over dignified beyond
those numbers within such parameter. In other words, it is nothing more
than cocktail information. If one insists upon operating within the yell
ow arc, do not encounter turbulent air lest you exceed MAX GUST LOAD; no
w there IS a number you should know and understand beyond the cocktail
hour.
Cliff Umscheid
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Just remember=C3=A2=82=AC=C2the ass you bust maybe your own.
doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@
matronics.com] On Behalf Of jblake207@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my CJ. Developed from
the manuals and from lots of questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp
, Savarese and others.
If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your own risk and
that this office cannot be held liable for any incorrect data... blah, b
lah, blah. I'm not a lawyer, so let me simply say use or lose.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Fellow CJ-ers,
I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for maximum
structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
Warren Hill
Mesa, AZ
On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
> G'Day,
>
> Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
> The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger, like Walt says.
> The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during aeros.
> Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop reduction box
> and the prop shaft.
>
> Thanks and Cheers,
> Chris.
>
>
-Matt Dralle, List =========
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