Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Maximum structural cruise (Richard Goode)
2. 05:39 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (Roger Kemp M.D.)
3. 06:14 AM - OSH 09 Day 3 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
4. 06:17 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (jblake207@COMCAST.NET)
5. 07:09 AM - Re: Maximum structural cruise (Roger Kemp M.D.)
6. 08:25 AM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (doug sapp)
7. 10:22 AM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (Larry Pine)
8. 12:13 PM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (doug sapp)
9. 01:19 PM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (keithmckinley)
10. 01:19 PM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (keithmckinley)
11. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (Larry Pine)
12. 03:18 PM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (keithmckinley)
13. 07:26 PM - Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ (Roger Bieberdorf)
14. 07:47 PM - OSH 09 Day 4 (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
The 55 is far stronger than the 50,and Mark is totally correct about the
50-when used by the Soviet Team the TOTAL life of the 50 was 47 hours.In
more general DOSAAF use it was 300 only.Of course average Western use is
much more gentle.
For the 55,the only issue is the change to a modified top fueselage to egine
mount bracket which should be changed at 250 hours if the plane was/is flown
hard-ie at 9G.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
> Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
> www.russianaeros.com
> Im currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
> +94 779 132 160.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sarah Tobin" <aerobaticgirl@yahoo.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 4:52 AM
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>
>
>
> 5 Gs? That's it? I haven't flown the 50, but in my 55, I routinely fly
> 6G positive and 3G negative. Heard anything regarding the 55?
>
> Smash
>
> --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil> wrote:
>
>> From: Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 8:31 AM
>> "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E"
>> <mark.bitterlich@navy.mil>
>>
>>
>>
>> Comments:
>>
>>
>> In the Marine Corps, there really is no such thing as a Max
>> Mach Operating Limitation on most tactical aircraft .... I
>> am sure there is probably one for the prop driven aircraft,
>> but on the jets, the mach limit is that speed you reach
>> while going straight down in burner... If you happen to have
>> burner.
>>
>> Of note is the fact that we too are seeing major structural
>> fatigue problems in a lot of our older aircraft. That
>> was the single MAJOR REASON that the A-6E Intruder was
>> retired early.
>>
>> On my personal YAK-50, I was originally told that the
>> aircraft was rated at plus 9, negative 6 G. Then I did
>> a ton of research and found that you were supposed to RECORD
>> certain parameters of each flight and this added points to a
>> number that when it was met, the wings on the aircraft were
>> basically retired. In the case of the YAK-50, in many
>> cases the whole aircraft was "retired" sometimes after just
>> 50 hours of flight time. Of note is the fact that most
>> everyone pulls that recording equipment out of the 50's AND
>> 52's, and doesn't "bother with it anymore". Lot's of
>> other pilots have done this kind of thing before our YAK's
>> came on to the scene. Examples: T-34's.
>> AT-6's. Both of those aircraft types have experienced
>> the "WING OFF" warning light illuminating during
>> flight. With fatal results in every case... And most
>> of those were wearing chutes by the way. I have
>> personally limited my 50 to plus 5 G's and negative 2.
>> Even that is questionable, but I am willing to !
>> take the risk, but do acknowledge that it IS a risk.
>> I also do not compete the aircraft anymore, and I don't
>> participate in any ACM stuff.
>>
>> Eddy current and magnafluxing tests are pretty much out of
>> my budget range. So... It's a risk.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of netmaster15@juno.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:15
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>>
>> Doc, Thankyou for your response on the subject of "
>> max structural cruise" . If I understand you correctly
>> we are both saying the same thing; the water gets a bit
>> muddy when we try to reconcile simantic differences. eg,
>> reference your first paragraph: "
>> .....while operating in STRUCTURAL CRUISE
>> LIMITATION...." Please define "structural
>> cruise". Also, what discipline categorizes structural cruise
>> as a LIMITATION as opposed to a NORMAL OPERATING condition?
>> All Operations Manuals I have been exposed to in the
>> last 63 years cite Limitations as Vne, VA, Vlo, Vle, Vfe,max
>> allow. TO Gr WT, max fuel, max tire speed, max pressure
>> differential, max operating altitude, plus several other
>> operating limitations. All these limitations are derived
>> from one source; the TYPE CERTIFICATE AND DATA SHEETS and
>> amendments thereto, eg, supplemental type certificates if
>> applicable. Also in your first paragraph you use the
>> phrase "....while operating within their envelope...."
>> But you do no!
>> t specify what envelope you're referring to. I agree,
>> there is no yellow arc on the airspeed indicator in an F-5
>> but there is certainly a Mach meter and a Max Mach
>> operating LIMITATION. Plainly, it is very difficult to
>> translate terminology between two different
>> disciplines.
>>
>> I'll have to finish this treatise at a later time;
>> I'm already beyond my curfew limitation. I look forward to
>> your continuing thoughts on this subject. BTW, I
>> currently own and fly both a YAK -50 and a Harmon
>> Rocket and you're correct, I don't want any major
>> dissassemblies at altitude so I'm always alert for new ways
>> to assure the aircraft remains in reuseable condition.
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew@nzactive.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:29:33 +1200
>>
>>
>>
>> DOC
>>
>> Please excuse me for intruding on your list. I fly a Harmon
>> Rocket, (mainly) but eavesdrop on the Yak list cos I'm in a
>> partnership that is rebuilding a Yak-3 in New Zealand.
>>
>> Anyway...
>>
>> I have been concerned about this issue for some time, in my
>> Harmon Rocket. It goes kinda fast, and sometimes I hit
>> pretty harsh bumps when I'm flying in the yellow arc. (yeah,
>> I know, I should anticipate better.) I've often wondered if
>> there's a way to check for metal fatigue or overstressing -
>> is this magnaflux thing something that can be done to wing
>> and horizontal stablizer spars? Is it a reasonably common
>> procedure (ie, likely to be available in NZ)...or a real
>> specialist kinda thing?
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 3:30 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>>
>>
>>
>> Cliff,
>>
>> AnswerYes I know of 2 aircraft that went down while
>> operating in structural cruise Limitation as you
>> say. Both were Class A accidents with 2 fatalities in each.
>> One an F-5F and the other a T-38. I served as the flight
>> surgeon representative to the SIB (safety investigation
>> board) on the F-5 and I was the interim representative on
>> the T-38 SIB. Four men died while operating their
>> aircraft within NORMAL OPERATION
>> PROCEDURE as you say. We call it differently since
>> we dont have a yellow arcs on our airspeed
>> indicators. Incidentally, one of the IPs in the F-5
>> was a good friend of mine. So yes, I know
>> firsthand of two aircraft that failed while
>> operating within their envelope.
>>
>> Now the question I have for you is: Are you prepared to
>> totally bet your rosy pink on whatever Red Star Aircraft it
>> is you are flying? Have you NDId/ magnafluxed your
>> aircraft to determine if you have metal fatigue or not.
>> Its a military aircraft not a spam can. It was and
>> is operated like or as a military aircraft. Cruise limits
>> dont exist. Vne and G limits do. An you do not know
>> for dead nuts sure what the real structural (read
>> metal fatigue state) integrity of your spare or spine is.
>> You can only hope that the entries in that Eastern bloc
>> aircrafts log book really were done and not just
>> pencil whipped. Granted, these aircraft are tough as
>> nails but so are/ were the F-5, T-38, F-15, A-10, and the
>> F-16. Their wing are cracking. In some cases the wings are
>> falling off as well as their dorsal spines are breaking. You
>> just never know.
>>
>> Ohmake it 3 aircraft that I know of that
>> broke up while operating within their NORMAL
>> OPERATING LIMITS. I believe the St Louis Guard
>> lost a twin tail sissy to structural failure while
>> operating in normal ops limits approximately a
>> year and a half ago. That Eagle driver was lucky, he got out
>> with a shattered elbow and some contusions. Rumor has it
>> they are still extracting fragments of seat cushion from his
>> rosy pink after he sucked it up while tumbling/
>> somersaulting in the pit while trying to figure out why his
>> jet was not responding any longer.
>>
>> By the way my comment initially was made in jest in
>> response to Sabers last line of his post. I was not
>> aware we had a MAX GUST LOAD on the YAK.
>> Maybe the CJ does. G limits yesVne yes
>> max crosswind limits yes.Max Gust Load ???
>>
>> We do not have cocktail hours in any of the squadrons
>> I have served with either. Either the beer light was lit or
>> it was not. The beer light was lit when the last jet
>> landed. Cocktail hour...
>>
>> Doc
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of netmaster15@juno.com
>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 3:35 PM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>>
>>
>>
>> Doc, How many people do you know who have
>> "busted their asses" due to exceeding max structural
>> cruise without exceeding Vne? This should raise the
>> questions: What is max structural cruise meant to protect?
>> and, Is max structural cruise a "LIMITATION" , or a NORMAL
>> OPERATION PROCEDURE? If the latter, then, I submit it is no
>> different than any other number within the yellow arc and
>> does not deserve to be over dignified beyond those numbers
>> within such parameter. In other words, it is nothing more
>> than cocktail information. If one insists upon operating
>> within the yellow arc, do not encounter turbulent air lest
>> you exceed MAX GUST LOAD; now there IS a number you
>> should know and understand beyond the cocktail hour.
>>
>> Cliff Umscheid
>>
>> ---------- Original Message ----------
>> From: "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:29:36 -0500
>>
>> Just rememberthe ass you bust maybe your
>> own.
>>
>> doc
>>
>>
>>
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]
>> On Behalf Of jblake207@comcast.net
>> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:47 AM
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>>
>>
>>
>> Find attached a "Vee" Speeds chart that I use for my
>> CJ. Developed from the manuals and from lots of
>> questions asked of people like Pappy, Sapp, Savarese and
>> others.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I were a lawyer, I'd make a comment about using at your
>> own risk and that this office cannot be held liable for any
>> incorrect data... blah, blah, blah. I'm not a lawyer,
>> so let me simply say use or lose.
>>
>>
>>
>> JB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Warren Hill" <k7wx@earthlink.net>
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:12:26 PM GMT -06:00
>> US/Canada Central
>> Subject: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
>>
>>
>> Fellow CJ-ers,
>>
>> I wonder if there is a consensus on a figure in knots for
>> maximum structural cruise for the CJ-6A?
>>
>> Warren Hill
>> Mesa, AZ
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Chris Wise wrote:
>>
>> > G'Day,
>> >
>> > Thanks to Walt, Pappy and Dennis for replying.
>> > The M14P has a rubber lip seal as well as a slinger,
>> like Walt says.
>> > The slinger by itself is inadequate, especially during
>> aeros.
>> > Any other advice would be appreciated re removing prop
>> reduction box
>> > and the prop shaft.
>> >
>> > Thanks and Cheers,
>> > Chris.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> -Matt Dralle, List =========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ===================================
>> tronics.com
>> ===================================
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> ===================================
>> ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ===================================
>> tronics.com
>> ===================================
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===================================
>>
>>
>> ky"Z+M4Gq(wrIQhaxr^jzZ("X,ZIJr*'!y:0ZwE,jwfffi0fr(Z(jBm
>> &j',r5h.+-
>>
>>
>> Forum -
>> FAQ,
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt
>> Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Yes they do when the runway on your home field to short to meet Vref but the
hanger that you own and is big enough to accommodate it is there. Same
reason the L-39 idea went out the window. Will just have to be happy with
the 50 and 52 for now.
Good luck and Cheers,
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:02 AM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Sweet. Thx for info, doc & keith...will follow up.
And, uh, I never HEARD of an aircraft where the expense exceeds the benefit.
Do they make them? :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Pickford
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Andrew
I believe Air New Zealand do have xray equipment at Chrischurch
Regards
Keith
Yak 52
Ashburton NZ
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Received: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 2:24 PM
Andrew,
So you are one of the guys involved in restoring that YAK 3 in NZ. I think I
talked to someone about that bird at onetime then decided the expense would
exceed the benefit. Looks like that may well be the case with the current
economy here in the US.
To answer your question, yes the capability to eddy current and magnaflux
along with, NDT (xray) exist. The expense of xraying the airframe for me is
prohibitive. I probably could get the guys in the airframe shop to NDT my
bird when they are doing one of our jets but that would be highly illegal
for me to ask for that. So, I just have to pull panels and stick a digital
camera in the wings and fuselage to snap pictures of those places that I
cannot see by looking in. Another thing to invest in I would guess (I have
not yet) is a bore scope. Still though, if you can see the cracks with your
eyes it is already a big problem.
<http://www.directindustry.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=9257&URL=http%3A%2F%2
Fwww.geinspectiontechnologies.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Feddy_current%2Findex.htm
l&IDVisite=&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=57817&IDProdSource=&SourceType=Produit
>
http://www.directindustry.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=9257&URL=http%3A%2F%2F
www.geinspectiontechnologies.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Feddy_current%2Findex.html
&IDVisite=&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=57817&IDProdSource=&SourceType=Produit
The above url will show you a portable eddy current system (Pulstec) made by
GE for the aerospace industry. I have not had the guts to ask the cost of
the devise and the practicality of having a portable eddy current sytem begs
practicality for me.
Magnaflux is a spray kit that can be found in most auto parts stores. It is
a combination of penetrentt and developer that you spray on the surface to
detect a crack. It works well for accessible areas of the airframe. I used
it to find a crack in my fuel tank on my 50. Here is the URL for Magnaflux
for more info.
<http://www...magnaflux.com/ProductOverview/Penetrant/tabid/96/Default.aspx>
http://www.magnaflux.com/ProductOverview/Penetrant/tabid/96/Default.aspx
The two above systems are affordable not practical for doing a complete
spar. Someone else can comment of that. I
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
DOC
Please excuse me for intruding on your list. I fly a Harmon Rocket, (mainly)
but eavesdrop on the Yak list cos I'm in a partnership that is rebuilding a
Yak-3 in New Zealand.
Anyway...
I have been concerned about this issue for some time, in my Harmon Rocket.
It goes kinda fast, and sometimes I hit pretty harsh bumps when I'm flying
in the yellow arc. (yeah, I know, I should anticipate better.) I've often
wondered if there's a way to check for metal fatigue or overstressing - is
this magnaflux thing something that can be done to wing and horizontal
stablizer spars? Is it a reasonably common procedure (ie, likely to be
available in NZ)...or a real specialist kinda thing?
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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Day 3.
Weather very nice. A little warm but a good wind out of the west made it
comfortable.
Alto Q at 4,500'
Watched the White Knight do some fly-by and the A-380 come in. Yes the
bastards is BIG.
Had to buy a new headset.
We had a couple of mechanical problems. One appears to be serious enough
that the airplane made stay here awhile. Will make a good article.
We put up 13 aircraft for the show today. I flew 2-3 spot for a change.
Spent a VERY pleasant evening eating brats, corn and beer with the Metro
Warbirds. They've been here 25 years and this is the first time I've heard
of them. There was banjo polka music and some very moving comments from
different folks.
Wednesday are the forum and THE PIG DIES!
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to
School
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Maximum structural cruise |
My bride is of the opinion that ALL airplanes not used for transport exceed
the benefit. =C2- JB ----- Original Message -----
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew@nzactive.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:01:32 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Sweet. Thx for info, doc & keith...will follow up.
And, uh, I never HEARD of an aircraft where the expense exceeds the benefit
. Do they make them? :)
Andrew
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Pickford
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Andrew
I believe Air New Zealand do have xray equipment at Chrischurch
Regards
Keith
Yak 52
Ashburton NZ
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Received: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 2:24 PM
Andrew,
So you are one of the guys involved in restoring that YAK 3 in NZ. I think
I talked to someone about that bird at onetime then decided the expense wou
ld exceed the benefit. Looks like that may well be the case with the curren
t economy here in the US.
To answer your question, yes the capability to eddy current and magnaflux a
long with, NDT (xray) exist. The expense of xraying the airframe for me is
prohibitive. I probably could get the guys in the airframe shop to NDT my b
ird when they are doing one of our jets but that would be highly illegal fo
r me to ask for that. So, I just have to pull panels and stick a digital ca
mera=C2- in the wings and fuselage to snap pictures of those places that
I cannot see by looking in. =C2-Another thing to invest in I would guess
(I have not yet) is a bore scope. Still though, if you can see the cracks w
ith your eyes it is already a big problem.
http://www.directindustry.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=9257&URL=http%3A%
2F%2Fwww.geinspectiontechnologies.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Feddy_current%2Finde
x.html&IDVisite=&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=57817&IDProdSource=&So
urceType=Produit
The above url will show you a portable eddy current system (Pulstec) made b
y GE for the aerospace industry. I have not had the guts to ask the cost of
the devise and the practicality of having a portable eddy current sytem be
gs practicality for me. =C2-
Magnaflux is a spray kit that can be found in most auto parts stores. It is
a combination of penetrentt and developer that you spray on the surface to
detect a crack. It works well for accessible areas of the airframe. I used
it to find a crack in my fuel tank on my 50. =C2-Here is the URL for Mag
naflux for more info. http://www.magnaflux.com/ProductOverview/Penetrant/ta
bid/96/Default.aspx
The two above systems are affordable not practical for doing a complete spa
r. Someone else can comment of that. I
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ - Andrew
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
DOC
Please excuse me for intruding on your list. I fly a Harmon Rocket, (mainly
) but eavesdrop on the Yak list cos I'm in a partnership that is rebuilding
a Yak-3 in New Zealand.
Anyway...
I have been concerned about this issue for some time, in my Harmon Rocket.
It goes kinda fast, and sometimes I hit pretty harsh bumps when I'm flying
in the yellow arc. (yeah, I know, I should anticipate better.) I've often w
ondered if there's a way to check for metal fatigue or overstressing - is t
his magnaflux thing something that can be done to wing and horizontal stabl
izer spars? Is it a reasonably common procedure (ie, likely to be available
in NZ)...or a real specialist kinda thing?
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Yak-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.ma
tronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
==============
==
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| Subject: | Maximum structural cruise |
Wivesgo figure! If it is not benefiting the nest then it is of
no benefit at all.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jblake207@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
My bride is of the opinion that ALL airplanes not used for transport
exceed the benefit. JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "ACTIVE NZ - Andrew" <andrew@nzactive.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:01:32 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Sweet. Thx for info, doc & keith...will follow up.
And, uh, I never HEARD of an aircraft where the expense exceeds the
benefit. Do they make them? :)
Andrew
_____
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith Pickford
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Andrew
I believe Air New Zealand do have xray equipment at Chrischurch
Regards
Keith
Yak 52
Ashburton NZ
--- On Wed, 29/7/09, Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Roger Kemp M.D. <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
Received: Wednesday, 29 July, 2009, 2:24 PM
Andrew,
So you are one of the guys involved in restoring that YAK 3 in NZ. I
think I talked to someone about that bird at onetime then decided the
expense would exceed the benefit. Looks like that may well be the case
with the current economy here in the US.
To answer your question, yes the capability to eddy current and
magnaflux along with, NDT (xray) exist. The expense of xraying the
airframe for me is prohibitive. I probably could get the guys in the
airframe shop to NDT my bird when they are doing one of our jets but
that would be highly illegal for me to ask for that. So, I just have to
pull panels and stick a digital camera in the wings and fuselage to
snap pictures of those places that I cannot see by looking in. Another
thing to invest in I would guess (I have not yet) is a bore scope. Still
though, if you can see the cracks with your eyes it is already a big
problem.
<http://www.directindustry.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=9257&URL=http%
3A%2F%2Fwww.geinspectiontechnologies.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Feddy_current%2
Findex.html&IDVisite=&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=57817&IDProdSourc
e=&SourceType=Produit>
http://www.directindustry.com/scripts/IDPHeader.php?s=9257&URL=http%3
A%2F%2Fwww.geinspectiontechnologies.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Feddy_current%2F
index.html&IDVisite=&MotCle=&RefCat=&IDProduit=57817&IDProdSource
=&SourceType=Produit
The above url will show you a portable eddy current system (Pulstec)
made by GE for the aerospace industry. I have not had the guts to ask
the cost of the devise and the practicality of having a portable eddy
current sytem begs practicality for me.
Magnaflux is a spray kit that can be found in most auto parts stores. It
is a combination of penetrentt and developer that you spray on the
surface to detect a crack. It works well for accessible areas of the
airframe. I used it to find a crack in my fuel tank on my 50. Here is
the URL for Magnaflux for more info.
<http://www...magnaflux.com/ProductOverview/Penetrant/tabid/96/Default.as
px>
http://www.magnaflux.com/ProductOverview/Penetrant/tabid/96/Default.aspx
The two above systems are affordable not practical for doing a complete
spar. Someone else can comment of that. I
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ACTIVE NZ -
Andrew
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Maximum structural cruise
DOC
Please excuse me for intruding on your list. I fly a Harmon Rocket,
(mainly) but eavesdrop on the Yak list cos I'm in a partnership that is
rebuilding a Yak-3 in New Zealand.
Anyway...
I have been concerned about this issue for some time, in my Harmon
Rocket. It goes kinda fast, and sometimes I hit pretty harsh bumps when
I'm flying in the yellow arc. (yeah, I know, I should anticipate
better.) I've often wondered if there's a way to check for metal fatigue
or overstressing - is this magnaflux thing something that can be done to
wing and horizontal stablizer spars? Is it a reasonably common procedure
(ie, likely to be available in NZ)...or a real specialist kinda thing?
Andrew
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
Consider mounting it in the belly just fwd of the sump tank.
FTI, I now am the dealer for a US made fuel flow, with fail safe tranducer,
all the read outs including GPS coupling (fuel req to waypt). Just ordered
my first 4 units, will let you know how it works out. Price is way below
JPI, and others.
Doug
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:25 PM, keithmckinley
<keith.mckinley@townisp.com>wrote:
> keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>
> Just wondering how you guys with fuel flow instruments in your CJ are
> mounting the transducer.
>
> There is a very short fuel line between pump and carb and I believe there
> needs to be 6" inches of straight fuel line in and out of the transducer.
>
> The angles that the fittings enter the fuel pump and carb make it look a
> little awkward to get those straight runs.
>
> Thanks
>
> --------
> Keith McKinley
> 700HS
> KFIT
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255070#255070
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
Doug,
The transducer needs to be relatively close to the carb. The further it is
away, the more friction and turbulence will be introduced.- This will mes
s with the accuracy of the transducer.- Also, remember there is a one way
check valve way forward of the sump with a bypass line. If you install the
transducer aft of this return, your actual fuel flow will be inaccurate.
-
I would suggest the best place is on the outer firewall, just aft of the ca
rb.- But, just thinking out loud.
Larry Pine
--- On Wed, 7/29/09, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com> wrote:
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ
Consider mounting it in the belly just fwd of the sump tank.
FTI, I now am the dealer for a US made fuel flow, with fail safe tranducer,
all the read outs including GPS coupling (fuel req to waypt). -Just orde
red my first 4 units, will let you know how it works out. -Price is way b
elow JPI, and others.
Doug
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:25 PM, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
wrote:
>
Just wondering how you guys with fuel flow instruments in your CJ are mount
ing the transducer.
There is a very short -fuel line between pump and carb and I believe ther
e needs to be 6" inches of straight fuel line in and out of the transducer.
The angles that the fittings enter the fuel pump and carb make it look a li
ttle awkward to get those straight runs.
Thanks
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255070#255070
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
Larry,Good point and you are correct on all points, unless it was possible
to install it just aft of the firewall. Mine are all just before the carb.
Maybe I should get busy and make up a special hose to use for this
application. Will give it a look see this coming weekend.
Doug
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Larry Pine <threein60@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Doug,
> The transducer needs to be relatively close to the carb. The further it is
> away, the more friction and turbulence will be introduced. This will mess
> with the accuracy of the transducer. Also, remember there is a one way
> check valve way forward of the sump with a bypass line. If you install the
> transducer aft of this return, your actual fuel flow will be inaccurate.
>
> I would suggest the best place is on the outer firewall, just aft of the
> carb. But, just thinking out loud.
> *Larry Pine*
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 7/29/09, doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: doug sapp <dougsappllc@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 8:10 AM
>
> Consider mounting it in the belly just fwd of the sump tank.
> FTI, I now am the dealer for a US made fuel flow, with fail safe tranducer,
> all the read outs including GPS coupling (fuel req to waypt). Just ordered
> my first 4 units, will let you know how it works out. Price is way below
> JPI, and others.
> Doug
>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:25 PM, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com<http://us.mc316.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
> > wrote:
>
>> keith.mckinley@townisp.com<http://us.mc316.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
>> >
>>
>> Just wondering how you guys with fuel flow instruments in your CJ are
>> mounting the transducer.
>>
>> There is a very short fuel line between pump and carb and I believe there
>> needs to be 6" inches of straight fuel line in and out of the transducer.
>>
>> The angles that the fittings enter the fuel pump and carb make it look a
>> little awkward to get those straight runs.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --------
>> Keith McKinley
>> 700HS
>> KFIT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255070#255070
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==========
>> rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
> Phone 509-826-4610
> Fax 509-826-3644
>
> *
>
> et=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Phone 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
and that's the problem...The transducer NEEDS to be located between the fuel pump
and carb to be accurate...AND it needs at least 6" of straight pipe in and
out of the unit
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255138#255138
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
and that's the problem...The transducer NEEDS to be located between the fuel pump
and carb to be accurate...AND it needs at least 6" of straight pipe in and
out of the unit
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255139#255139
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
Here is a bad picture of mine.. But you get the idea.- I have just shy of
6 inches.- I have a EI fuel computer with the Gold transducer.- The ne
wer transducers are not as touchy as the old ones.- You just want to limi
t the number of bends and turns. I have a 90 degree going in and 45 degree
on the exit of the transducer.
Larry Pine
--- On Wed, 7/29/09, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> wrote:
From: keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ
>
and that's the problem...The transducer NEEDS to be located between the fue
l pump and carb to be accurate...AND it needs at least 6" of straight pipe
in and out of the unit
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255139#255139
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
you're right...it's tough to see. Thanks for sending the picture.
You've got a really clean, nice looking CJ!
~K
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255155#255155
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ |
Keith;
I intalled the standard transducer that is used on a JPI install on my CJ6a
.- You are accurate when you suggest that the length of the line does not
allow for sufficient line length as detailed in the install guidelines.-
I found similiar conflicts in the install of the same transducer on a Cess
na 182 application (altho that one did not "violate" the rules as severly a
s did the CJ6a install)
In both cases, I have used the aircraft for extended periods of time and fi
nd that the fuel used data is VERY close to the actual amount of fuel used.
....generally within 2-3%.- I have concluded that the requirements for th
e install did not apply to my specific aircraft.
How your luck will parallel mine.- rb
--- On Tue, 7/28/09, keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com> wrote:
From: keithmckinley <keith.mckinley@townisp.com>
Subject: Yak-List: mounting fuel flow transducer in a CJ
>
Just wondering how you guys with fuel flow instruments in your CJ are mount
ing the transducer.
There is a very short- fuel line between pump and carb and I believe ther
e needs to be 6" inches of straight fuel line in and out of the transducer.
The angles that the fittings enter the fuel pump and carb make it look a li
ttle awkward to get those straight runs.
Thanks
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255070#255070
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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Again beautiful weather. CAVU. Temp mild.
Today the T-28s did their thing so we sat and watched. The RV guys are
really putting on some good formations. a Big diamond made up of 36
aircraft! Its easy since all the guys are flying a diamond in flights with the
diamonds stacked into a very big one.
We had our Forum today (all the other WBs have their tomorrow). Our two
subjects were safety and legal. We had two first person accounts on two
fatal accidents. A stall spin and mid-air. Both speakers were eloquent in
their descriptions of and the ramifications of these accidents.
The Legal part had a practicing lawyer, tell us just about how far you can
go without reporting the FAA of an incident / accident.
The BBQ went OK. Despite my fear of not having enough food, we fed some
50 people. At the last minute I had guys coming out of the woodwork, saying
they were members (they were not). We drink ALL the beer. There was a
little food left over. Very little.
Tomorrow is another day off. FAST meeting and FAST Check pilot meeting in
the morning. Birthday party in the evening. FOOD FOOD FOOD BEER BEER etc
etc. But than there is good fellowship. Lots of that too.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
**************Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to
School
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